Author Topic: possible issue with rear sprocket.  (Read 4811 times)

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johnny rocket

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on: February 24, 2009, 02:22:45 am
i have a 2009 ROYAL ENFIELD ELECTRA
which i took from huntingdon beach california to atlanta georgia
i kept the chain well oiled and adjusted but around alabama i  noticed that my rear sprocket was heavily worn almost as if it had not been properly hardened.
 i ordered the two piece set and replaced the sprocket and am now using a heavier chain, if anyone else has had a problem with excessive rear sprocket wear please let me know.
fyi when the new two piece sprocket came in it came with countersunk hardware but i had to have  the holes on the sprocket countersunk  myself. beacause of the ease of machining the replacement sprocket i am sure that i will have similar problems shortly. if anyone is interested i am considering having custom stainless steel sprockets made. also,  the heavier replacement chain that i recieved is not an o ring chain.  i will keep you all posted when i find a quality chain that we can use.
and since the smallest rear sprocket offered by re is the 38 tooth i will be attempting to have a 36 or 34 tooth made for more top end, unless anyone knows of a larger replacement front sprocket.
 
and another thing. is anyone running straight pipes?
if so what size jets are you using?
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The Garbone

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Reply #1 on: February 24, 2009, 02:42:13 am
Almost sounds like an alignment problem.    I have about 4k miles on my rear sprocket and it looks fine... 
Gary
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johnny rocket

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Reply #2 on: February 24, 2009, 02:47:32 am
keep my alignment straight.
im pretty meticulous about maintenance as this is the only new bike ive ever had.
so im used to having to tinker.
 i have about eight grand on mine.
no problems till around 7k
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Kruiser

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Reply #3 on: February 24, 2009, 03:24:35 am
You really road a brand new Electra from CA to Atlanta, GA?  In one trip?


johnny rocket

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Reply #4 on: February 24, 2009, 03:32:36 am
yeah im about to hit savannah in the next few minutes. :)
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johnny rocket

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Reply #5 on: February 24, 2009, 06:20:19 am
i notice you are in atl. let me know if you wanna meet up for a ride.
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Vince

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Reply #6 on: February 24, 2009, 06:07:07 pm
     JR, I seldom see a worn RE sprocket.  On The RE, as with all the other bikes I have coming through the shop, excessive chain and sprocket wear boil down to a maintenance issue. The chain is run too tight or too loose or it is mis-aligned, and/ or it is improperly lubed. It is not a quality issue.
     Use a motorcycle chain lube and let it set up for a while before riding. Better is to lube after the ride to give adequate time for set up. Chain lube is a very heavy grease dissolved in a carrier. it goes on thin, seeps into the chain, then the carrier evaporates.
    When adjusting find the tight point of the chain and adjust it there. Chains, even new, are uneven. If you tighten at a loose point it will be too tight elsewhere. This induces extra stress.
     Most people don't lube or adjust nearly often enough. On a trip like that I would lube at the lunch break, and again in the evening, and every time it rains. Check tension every time you lube and adjust as necessary.
     I know it sounds like a pain, but it is cheaper than premature replacement.


johnny rocket

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Reply #7 on: February 24, 2009, 06:34:50 pm
if it were a lube or tension issue wouldnt i see evidence on both front and rear sprockets? my front sprocket is in great condition.
i do lube religiously. every time i stop for gas, and i have done five adjustments  in the time ive had the bike ( since late november).
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Vince

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Reply #8 on: February 24, 2009, 06:49:51 pm
     The rear normally wears more than the front on every bike. I'm sure you did things right. The issue is right for the conditions. On that kind of trip with constant long usage, I would posit that you simply needed more frequency. Also, the proper application of proper chain lube is critical. On that kind of trip I would assume more than 5 adjustments. That being said, this kind of trip is SEVERE use, so you will have accelerated wear compared to someone who was taking shorter trips.
     Also, with the cam adjusters on the RE chain, fine adjustments are impossible.
     I guess the point is that you probably don't need to go through the additional expense and trouble of special manufacture of components. A heavy duty non o-ring chain such as the Tsubaki QR or HSL chains will extend the life of the sprockets also. 


johnny rocket

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Reply #9 on: February 24, 2009, 06:56:31 pm
also. how bout them jet sizes?
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Kruiser

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Reply #10 on: February 24, 2009, 07:12:25 pm
Thanks.  I've got the bike kinda torn down right now, but I will be up and running by the
time the weather warms up.

i notice you are in atl. let me know if you wanna meet up for a ride.


johnny rocket

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Reply #11 on: February 25, 2009, 04:14:28 am
sure thing man.
and if you need a hand turning wrenches just gimme a shout.
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Jon

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Reply #12 on: February 25, 2009, 06:56:07 pm
How did you manage to get a brand new Bullet in California?

At one time full enclosure chain cases were available if they are still around
that might help. My Dad rode MZ's for years and they had a very neat
rear chain enclosure and I don't think we ever had to replace a chain.


t120rbullet

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Reply #13 on: February 25, 2009, 08:47:15 pm
and since the smallest rear sprocket offered by re is the 38 tooth i will be attempting to have a 36 or 34 tooth made for more top end, unless anyone knows of a larger replacement front sprocket.

CMW sells sprockets for the 5 speed from 16 to 22 teeth,
http://store.royalenfieldusa.com/maintenance-repair/transmission/premium-5-speed-countershaft-sprockets
Most Electra's come with a 18 tooth sprocket.
I personally wouldn't go bigger than 20 on one though.
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Kruiser

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Reply #14 on: February 26, 2009, 02:18:59 am
Thanks, I appreciate that.

sure thing man.
and if you need a hand turning wrenches just gimme a shout.


ace.cafe

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Reply #15 on: February 26, 2009, 02:27:34 am
Smaller rear sprocket isn't a realistic possibiity, because the sprocket s integral with the brake drum, and is already at minimum size.

So, front sprockets are the viable alternative for us.

Be aware that with a stock Bullet, there's a good possibility that if you go bigger than 18T sprocket in the front, you'll probably not be able to reach max revs in top gear. In fact, you might not even be able to reach max revs in top gear with the 18T.
But, you get about 3mph higher cruising speed for the same rpm.
However, the load on the engine is not reduced, so it doesn't really increase your safe cruising speed, unless you do something to reduce the load.
« Last Edit: February 26, 2009, 02:30:04 am by ace.cafe »
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Rick Sperko

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Reply #16 on: February 26, 2009, 12:46:43 pm
Be aware that with a stock Bullet

Ace, does that apply to a minimally modified Bullet, classic exhaust, larger carb, k&n? With these tack on upgrades rather than cracking open the engine upgrades could it handle 19T in your opinion?

Thanks,
-Rick
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t120rbullet

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Reply #17 on: February 26, 2009, 02:15:55 pm
Ace, does that apply to a minimally modified Bullet, classic exhaust, larger carb, k&n? With these tack on upgrades rather than cracking open the engine upgrades could it handle 19T in your opinion?
Here's my take on it,

I put a 20 on my 95 when I got it. Stock motor handled it just fine and still does to this day.

My 99 had a 20 on it for 18,000 miles until I switched it to a 19 and have 3,000 miles on that right now. Handled it just fine even in the Ozarks (which is why I switched it).

My 01 has a 18 on it (stock motor) and handles it just fine.

Max Revs? I never considered the Bullet to be a "max rev's" kind of bike in the first place so it was not a consideration from the beginning.
If I have a bone for some max revs I'll take my "sport bike" (the Tiger) out. 

I do live in Michigan so going up the sides of mountains is not on the menu but cruising at 60/65 EMPH is quite a bit nicer with the larger sprockets than with the 17.

If in doubt go up 1 more and see if you like it. If you like that go up 1 more next time.
For me top speed has been about the same with the 18,19 & 20 tooth.
CJ

 




 
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ace.cafe

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Reply #18 on: February 26, 2009, 11:41:10 pm
Be aware that with a stock Bullet

Ace, does that apply to a minimally modified Bullet, classic exhaust, larger carb, k&n? With these tack on upgrades rather than cracking open the engine upgrades could it handle 19T in your opinion?

Thanks,
-Rick

No, I don't think it's the same with a modded Bullet.
I thnk once you uncork the exhaust, it lets alot more heat out of the engine, and I think that helps alot. And runner richer-than-stock jetting is a big help too.

As for "handling a 19T" it's a matter of what you want to accomplish.
For top speed, a mildly modded Bullet isn't going to be able to reach the normal redline rpm with a 19T on it. So in normal terms, that would be considered over-geared.
Now, as CJ points out, that might be a moot point, because you might not care about having it over-geared. The over-gearing might suit your desires for cruising rpms. But it will also make your acceleration slower.

So, I think that if you uncork the Bullet, you can use a little more gearing, and cruise a little faster with probably a decent degree of safety, after break-in.
The key here, IMO, is that if you are going to gear it so that you'll be cruising at a higher speed with lower rpms, you should gear it around the torque peak rpm for your cruising speed, which in our case is around 3500 rpm, typically modded with the exhaust and carb. Or a bit above that.
The uncorked Bullet seems to be real happy at around 3500-3750 rpm for cruising. That's about 55-60mph in real speed terms, with a 17T sprocket. You get about an extra 3.5mph by going from a 17T to an 18T, and probably about 7-8mph by going from a 17T to a 19T. So, that 19T would set you at cruising speed of about 63-68mph, at the same rpms as doing 55-60mph with the 17T.
However, and this is a big however, the load on the engine is still increased by the wind loading at that higher speed. So just because you have the engine turning a lower rpm, doesn't mean that it can't overheat at those speeds. You just get a larger throttle opening at the lower rpm. It still has to produce the same hp to do 68mph, whether you have it geared different, or not.
So the load on the engine is the same at that speed with either gearing, but with the taller gear, you need to produce that same power at a lower rpm. Thus, larger throttle opening.
My recommendations for higher cruising speed would always be to try to reduce the load to some degree, so that the engine isn't working any harder than it was at 55mph.
And the way to do that is to reduce wind loading by improved aerodynamics. A lower set of bars will lower your riding position, and reduce your critical frontal area. This might be enough to get that extra few mph, without stressing the engine any more, and allow you to use that taller gear without additional load on the engine at the cruising speed.
If you don't do anything to reduce the load in some way, the engine will be seeing that 68mph load, regardless of what rpm you are doing, or what gearing you have. And the heating issue could rear its ugly head. Maybe, maybe not.
But, with the bike uncorked, it doesn't hold the heat as badly, and you might be ok with it.
A long winded explanation, I know.

Edited: I just remembered that this is the AVL forum section. I can't remember if the AVL comes stock with an 18T, or not. So, depending on the circumstances, my comments about the 17T sprocket may only apply to the old Bullet.
In any case, the basics that I spoke of are the same. Perhaps the AVL might be a little more forgiving of the heat, and handle the taller gear a little better. Maybe.
« Last Edit: February 26, 2009, 11:58:43 pm by ace.cafe »
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calman28556

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Reply #19 on: February 26, 2009, 11:58:35 pm
Had to replace the rear sprocket on my 08 Classic last year.  The teeth were chipped.  There was no noticeable wear to the front sprocket (18) but replaced it with a 17 while doing the rear sprocket replacement.

Covered by warranty.
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Rick Sperko

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Reply #20 on: February 27, 2009, 12:44:42 am
Edited: I just remembered that this is the AVL forum section. I can't remember if the AVL comes stock with an 18T, or not. So, depending on the circumstances, my comments about the 17T sprocket may only apply to the old Bullet.
In any case, the basics that I spoke of are the same. Perhaps the AVL might be a little more forgiving of the heat, and handle the taller gear a little better. Maybe.

Yes, I realized I was in the wrong place after I posted my question. Sorry to hi-jack the thread. I will go back to where I belong with my questions unless I come up with an AVL question.

-Rick

P.S. Thanks for the answers CJ and Ace, just what I was looking for
« Last Edit: February 27, 2009, 12:46:56 am by Rick Sperko »
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johnny rocket

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Reply #21 on: February 27, 2009, 12:45:01 am
how did you get it covered?
im a broke college student and that 200 bucks hurt.
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Kevin Mahoney

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Reply #22 on: February 27, 2009, 03:12:13 am
warranty coverage for "wear" items is a case by case thing. Generally they are not covered, but we try to use common sense when applying the policy.
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