Author Topic: Engine modifications and resulting improvements.....  (Read 23182 times)

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Sam Simons

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on: November 27, 2008, 12:27:39 am

I've been looking for data such as dyno runs,etc., regarding the various overbore and/or stroker setups.....does anyone know of such? I'm interested specifically
in performance combinations using the  parts found in CMW's catalog......


Sam Simons

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Reply #1 on: November 27, 2008, 02:05:19 am
Outstanding information,Ace,thank you! I'm very impressed with the performance increases,especially when using only the 612 kit.....that strikes me as the way to go for what I'm looking for in this street scrambler project....

Sam in Indiana


Peter

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Reply #2 on: November 27, 2008, 02:20:21 am
Don't, please don't.

A bigger carb will likely give you more bang in the higher part of the power band.
The emphasis here is "in the higher part of the power band", which is at higher rpm than you would like to run your Bullet. And on top of that, low end performance will suffer.

The power curve of with the free flowing exhaust and proper rejet is what you want - trust me.
If you want more bang in that rpm range, work on compression first. That lifts the graph a little more  and is usable power/torque right within the rpm range you like to ride your standard Bullet. A tooth more on the sprocket doesn't hurt then.

A larger carb asks for higher flow and you can get that only with higher rpm which is problematic.

Peter

Edit: I didn't mean to say that going all the way with a 612 kit is not a reasonable option, which it isn't, but who cares.  ;D
You posted while I was writing my post. I'm all for it, there's nothing like getting serious about tuning. ;D
I was STRICTLY talking about getting performance out of an otherwise standard Bullet (except for exhaust modification) by bolting on a big carb.
Keep us posted!

Peter
« Last Edit: November 27, 2008, 02:30:00 am by Peter »


Sam Simons

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Reply #3 on: November 27, 2008, 05:07:27 pm
Hmmmmmmmmmmm....well.............I didn't expect that large of an increase in HP with the 612 set up....2.5X over stock.....I would be tempted to use the stock cam,612 kit,and the 28 mm Mikuni,expecting a drop in maximum HP,but gaining a flatter HP curve that would somewhat mimic the power delivery of the stock engine.....Possibly ending up with 30-35HP is still a hellova improvement IMO......



ace.cafe

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Reply #4 on: November 27, 2008, 05:47:39 pm
Hmmmmmmmmmmm....well.............I didn't expect that large of an increase in HP with the 612 set up....2.5X over stock.....I would be tempted to use the stock cam,612 kit,and the 28 mm Mikuni,expecting a drop in maximum HP,but gaining a flatter HP curve that would somewhat mimic the power delivery of the stock engine.....Possibly ending up with 30-35HP is still a hellova improvement IMO......



Doing that would certainly give alot of low end grunt!
Bump the compression to 8:1, which can easily be handled by that top-notch 612 crank, bearing, and rod. The combination of higher compression, more surface area for that compression to push on from the larger diameter piston, and longer crank-arm leverage, will all come together to give a real good torque-monster with stock cams.
The max rpms will be a bit more limited than the 500(using stock cams), due to the 20% displacement increase, but no cam duration increase to feed the revs. So your redline would be a bit lower than stock. But, you probably wouldn't need the revs, because of all that power down low anyway. And with the longer stroke, piston speeds get higher, so high revs aren't really too desirable with the longer stroke.

If you want tire-ripping torque with a moderate rev-limit, that'll do it!
Could be a bit brutal on clutches and rear-wheel spokes!
« Last Edit: November 27, 2008, 05:56:42 pm by ace.cafe »
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baird4444

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Reply #5 on: November 27, 2008, 08:53:22 pm
Let's not forget the Flatslide carb. I'd been running the upjetted mikuni  with a K&N air filter and drilled silencer for 5 years now. Quite an improvement over stock but still leaving me wanting more...
   I installed the flatslide this year and believe me; it's a kick in the ARSE!! Ever since CMW posted the dyno sheet last year I kept asking myself, why not?
I gave up some mpg's but the power IS THERE. I'm not shifting into 4th till an indicated 50 mph. My clutch that never slipped now slips till warm... and I've had to adjust my brakes...  see attached dyno for consideration - Mike
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 but tomorrow I shall be sober and you will still be ugly'
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ace.cafe

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Reply #6 on: November 27, 2008, 09:09:10 pm
Yep, the flatslide carb is a good addition.
Really extends that "table-flat" torque curve much further up the powerband.

And, of course, since hp is a function of torque x rpms/5250, we see it extend the hp up by 3 in the upper regions.

I have a 32mm Flatslide Mikuni on the shelf, for my Cafe Racer Bullet project.

The roundslide is traditional for the old Brit bikes, but the flat slides sure do work on them.
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Sam Simons

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Reply #7 on: November 28, 2008, 02:13:32 am
 I wonder what the dyno specs are for the 535cc kit......Ace?

Sam in Indiana


ace.cafe

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Reply #8 on: November 28, 2008, 02:55:38 am
I wonder what the dyno specs are for the 535cc kit......Ace?

Sam in Indiana

I haven't seen any dyno charts for the 535, Sam.
But I know what they basically do for the bike.

It's a 7% displacement increase, and that pretty much equates to about a horse and a half added to a stock Bullet, or a relatively mildly modded Bullet.
With more significant mods, it can add up to about 2 ponies extra.
Plus, you get about the same figures in added torque.
And if you select the high compression piston with the 535 kit, you get that boost along with it. That's good for about another 3 hp and 3 ft/lbs torque. So, if you add the 535 and the high compression, it's good for about 5 hp and about a similar increase in torque.
It's a good idea to get the alloy cylinder barrel with the 535 kit, for the benefit of extra cooling capability, when increasing the power levels of the engine with modifications.
Pretty good mod.
Takes you up into the 25 hp and 28 ft/lbs neighborhood, if you have the free-flow exhaust and re-jetted carb and a free-flow air filter. At that point, you're gonna want the 30mm or 32mm flatslide carb.

Issues are that the 87mm piston is heavier than the stock 84mm piston, and can place some additional stress on the stock alloy con-rod, so you have to be careful when revving over 5500 with the stock rod. In fact, I think I'd use 5500rpm as a redline, and don't make a habit of hitting it. Piston speeds are very high in this engine at 5500rpm, and that can be a killer with an alloy con-rod.
The other issue is that the high compression piston is forged, which has a much higher amount of expansion in the piston than the stock cast pistons do. This requires a much wider piston skirt to cylinder wall clearance. About .006" clearance works good without seizing, when using the forged piston. That's measured in diameter, so the bore diameter would be honed to .006" larger than the diameter of the piston skirt near the bottom of the piston from front to rear of the piston skirt.

One other thing.
The high compression requires less ignition advance. So you limit your ignition advance to about 30 degrees BTDC at maximum advance. That's a good place to start out, and then you can listen for any "pinging", and fine-tune it in from there. If you don't  limit the full advance like that, you'll put a hole in the piston crown. Seen it many times.
Sometimes it helps to use a thicker head gasket, or 2 cylinder base gaskets, to knock the compression down a little to around 8:1. That solves the detonation issues because these pistons don't have a quench band, and are subject to potential detonation problems at their normal 8.5:1 compression. And it's a little easier on the bottom end bearings and the rod too.
If you use the billet crank and forged steel rod with Alpha roller on the big end, and a set of real good main bearings, then you don't have to worry about revving or the compression level, in terms of the bottom-end holding up. But the detonation issues are still there without a quench band, so you either drop it back to 8:1, or run some octane booster all the time.

You don't need to put in big valves for this engine, but it does help to have a  "street/strip" valve job and bowl flowing job done. Big valves aren't needed, but it won't totally kill the flow if you have them in there. Don't enlarge the ports any. They are already at full size that we can use as they come from the factory. But a little smoothing of the walls, without changing shape, and trying not to increase size any more than minimum necessary to smooth them is important. That would get you another 15% more power, approximately, if all the flow work is done well.

So, if you do it all really right, you can get into the high 20s in hp and torque, without cam change with a 535.
That's rear-wheel hp and torque.Crankshaft hp and torque would be higher.
But, rear-wheel power is what you're getting to the road, so that's real-world power description.
It's nearly doubling the bone-stock Bulllet 500 rear-wheel hp.
And your power band will be nice and wide and strong, all thru the rpm range.
« Last Edit: November 28, 2008, 03:56:00 pm by ace.cafe »
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BigDon

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Reply #9 on: November 28, 2008, 03:40:37 am
OK Ace, where is your shop? You got me drooling ;D.

But I think I should with the Classic exhaust and go up to the 117.5 or 120 jet, I think that is the setup on the milder dyno run correct?

That I think I can do on my own :).
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ace.cafe

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Reply #10 on: November 28, 2008, 03:46:19 am
OK Ace, where is your shop? You got me drooling ;D.

But I think I should with the Classic exhaust and go up to the 117.5 or 120 jet, I think that is the setup on the milder dyno run correct?

That I think I can do on my own :).

Don, your jetting all depends upon your specific bike and the elevation above sea level, and the ambient temperatures. It comes down to your engines needs with the air densities that you have in your operating area.

I'm currently running a 27.5 pilot jet and a 125 main jet, and I'm at about 900' elevation, and it's coming into winter temps. I may even be a touch on the lean side for my present conditions.

So, you really need to get the Mikuni Tuning Manual, and learn about the details of jetting, because what's good for my bike in East TN in the winter, might not be right for your bike where you are.

Oh, and my "shop" is my work room in my house. I only do this stuff as a hobby. I don't make a living doing it. I gave that up years ago. I just do it for fun now.
« Last Edit: November 28, 2008, 03:51:18 am by ace.cafe »
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BigDon

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Reply #11 on: November 28, 2008, 03:56:39 am
Roger that on the jetting. It is the one thing I am nervous about, most likely because I have not done enough research on it yet.

I have time as I don't plan on changing the exhaust till I have 1500 miles on so on the bike.

Right now I am happy with the basics and what I am learning. But you guys better watch out when I start tearing into the carb and the exhaust, I'm going to have questions ;D!

Note: I will get the tuning info you recommend.
BigDon
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sewerman

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Reply #12 on: November 28, 2008, 01:10:20 pm
Ace,
  Your tech info is FANTASTIC!  I don't have access to a dyno but my "seat-of-my-pants" dyno shows that some simple home mods really can bring a stock Bullet to life.  After I put on the utterly beautiful Continental pieces I did the following:

                                         -Free flowing Indian made head pipe

                                         -Megaphone cannister from JC Whitney
                                           (straight thru design)

                                         -K&N cone filter

                                         -Rejet stock 28mm Micarb

                                         -Bosch coil

                                         -Shaved head, 35thousand

                                         -Home port/polish job(my first time and I had a blast
                                          doing this, It sat on my coffee table for a week so
                                          I could look at it!)

                                         -These mods required that I add three of the heavy
                                          duty clutch springs cause the mods were enough to make
                                           the clutch slip. 

   The Bullett is the most fun bike I have tinkered with in my 35 years of riding. 


ace.cafe

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Reply #13 on: November 28, 2008, 04:07:51 pm
Ace,
  Your tech info is FANTASTIC!  I don't have access to a dyno but my "seat-of-my-pants" dyno shows that some simple home mods really can bring a stock Bullet to life.  After I put on the utterly beautiful Continental pieces I did the following:

                                         -Free flowing Indian made head pipe

                                         -Megaphone cannister from JC Whitney
                                           (straight thru design)

                                         -K&N cone filter

                                         -Rejet stock 28mm Micarb

                                         -Bosch coil

                                         -Shaved head, 35thousand

                                         -Home port/polish job(my first time and I had a blast
                                          doing this, It sat on my coffee table for a week so
                                          I could look at it!)

                                         -These mods required that I add three of the heavy
                                          duty clutch springs cause the mods were enough to make
                                           the clutch slip. 

   The Bullett is the most fun bike I have tinkered with in my 35 years of riding. 

Sounds good!
Next time you have the head off, have a quality-done 5-angle valve job done to it, and blend the angles to the port bowl.
Intake actual seat on the 45* angle, narrowed to .060" seat width for the sealing surface, and out as far near the perimeter of the valve as you can get it. Then progress inward to 60*, then 75*, and then to the 90* at the bowl, and hand-blend with some fine emery cloth to remove any edges on the blended angles. Do NOT feather the edge on the 45* sealing angle, and leave that crisp.
Top cut angle of 30 degrees leading into the chamber wall.

Believe it or not, this kind of valve job, with blending into the smoothed port bowl, will give you more result in flow improvement, than all the porting and polishing you did in the port. Almost everything to be gained in the port of the Bullet is within 1 inch of the valve seat. That's where it has to be perfect for your best results.
If you know anybody who has a Serdi machine that can cut radiused seats, then that would be even better. 1/4" radius seat is the spec. That makes the right match with the tulip flare on the back of the stock valve, to keep air mass and velocity correct as it travesl around the corner.

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stw

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Reply #14 on: November 28, 2008, 08:57:21 pm
Also loving this great info on Bullet tuning, Ace.  So clearly explained too--not many can make this kind of this easy to understand.

Am I right in assuming that the hotter cam you mentions increases the overlap (or introduces overlap if there was none stock) between exhaust and intake phases to get that higher rpm efficiency?

Here's my tuning question, just out of curiosity.  Say you wanted to tune the iron bullet for best fuel efficiency--I'm guessing just adding a free flow exhaust and proper jet (not too big) plus a freer intake (maybe K&N) and you'd be all the way there?

This assumes that the stock Bullet cam has little overlap and keeps a lot of back pressure in the exhaust phase so you get the most low end torque possible (at the expense of high rpm hp). 

Fuel efficient tuning is tricky I think because some performance mods increase it and some decrease it.
1995 RE Bullet 4speed


Peter

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Reply #15 on: November 28, 2008, 09:46:31 pm
I wonder what the dyno specs are for the 535cc kit......Ace?

Sam in Indiana

.....

One other thing.
The high compression requires less ignition advance. So you limit your ignition advance to about 30 degrees BTDC at maximum advance. That's a good place to start out, and then you can listen for any "pinging", and fine-tune it in from there. If you don't  limit the full advance like that, you'll put a hole in the piston crown. Seen it many times.
Sometimes it helps to use a thicker head gasket, or 2 cylinder base gaskets, to knock the compression down a little to around 8:1. That solves the detonation issues because these pistons don't have a quench band, and are subject to potential detonation problems at their normal 8.5:1 compression. And it's a little easier on the bottom end bearings and the rod too.
If you use the billet crank and forged steel rod with Alpha roller on the big end, and a set of real good main bearings, then you don't have to worry about revving or the compression level, in terms of the bottom-end holding up. But the detonation issues are still there without a quench band, so you either drop it back to 8:1, or run some octane booster all the time.

....

I have the 535 alloy kit with Acralite piston with supposedly 8.5:1 compression ratio. I have also eliminated the head gasket by lapping head and jug together.
Double head gaskets or cylinder base gaskets are not sufficient to knock down compression enough. A 2mm compression plate in place of the base gasket was necessary to make my engine behave. The existing  base gasket was paper and another one wouldn't have changed much. The head gasket in the Bullet engine is not what you usually find a head gasket to be: compression, oil and/or coolant gasket all in one. Doubling up on the head gasket will lift the spigot off the sealing rim of the head and effectively eliminate the compression seal which is provided by the cylinder spigot and head recess.
Compression plates are available in different thicknesses and are what is to be used to knock down compression a bit.

Ignition advance indeed needs to be around 30 degrees with the 535 high comp kit and even lower with a projected tip plug. I use NGK BPR9EIX and it has never fouled despite it being such a cold plug. I highly recommend BPR8EIX or BPR9EIX - but forget static timing according to the manual with these. 

Peter
 
« Last Edit: November 28, 2008, 09:53:50 pm by Peter »


ace.cafe

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Reply #16 on: November 28, 2008, 10:04:45 pm
Also loving this great info on Bullet tuning, Ace.  So clearly explained too--not many can make this kind of this easy to understand.

Am I right in assuming that the hotter cam you mentions increases the overlap (or introduces overlap if there was none stock) between exhaust and intake phases to get that higher rpm efficiency?

Here's my tuning question, just out of curiosity.  Say you wanted to tune the iron bullet for best fuel efficiency--I'm guessing just adding a free flow exhaust and proper jet (not too big) plus a freer intake (maybe K&N) and you'd be all the way there?

This assumes that the stock Bullet cam has little overlap and keeps a lot of back pressure in the exhaust phase so you get the most low end torque possible (at the expense of high rpm hp). 

Fuel efficient tuning is tricky I think because some performance mods increase it and some decrease it.

Well, this is a pretty big can of worms to tackle on a forum post, but I'll give it a shot.

Cam/valve overlap - What is it?
Overlap is the period during a 4-stroke engine cycle where the intake valve  and the exhaust valve are open at the same time.
There are two main reasons for this overlap.
One is because we cannot open valves instantly, so we must "ramp them up" with the "ramp" segment of the cam. This takes time, and so we open them earlier than necessary, so that we can have them open when we need them open.
In the case of the intake valve, it needs to be open when the downstroke of the piston occurs, so we begin to open it prior to top dead center(TDC).
Well, opening it earlier than TDC means that it is beginning to open at the end of the exhaust stroke, when the exhaust valve is open. So, that is the first half of the overlap which happens prior to TDC.
The last half of the overlap occurs because now the intake valve has been opened for the intake stroke, but we're still closing the exhaust valve on its closing ramp after TDC. We needed to have that exhaust valve open for the entire exhaust stroke before we start closing it.
The overlap period is the combination of both valves being open prior to TDC on the exhaust stroke, and after TDC on the intake stroke.

On the stock Bullet, we open the intake valve around 30 degrees BTDC, and we close the exhaust valve at about 35 degrees ATDC, so we have an overlap period of about 65 degrees with the stock cams. By the way, this is a pretty wide overlap period for an engine of the Bullet's type. So, the stock cams have plenty.

The other purpose for overlap, besides the previously stated mechanical reasons of ramping the valves, is to assist breathing of the engine, and also cooling the valves.
With  an engine such as the Bullet, there is minimal piston movement within about 20-30 degrees on either side of TDC, where the piston has already reached almost full extension, so it's "dwelling" at the top of the stroke, while the crankshaft pin holding the big end of the rod is primarily moving horizontally, and not moving the piston vertically hardly at all. During this time, there is very little motion of the piston to assist breathing, either in or out.
So, at the end of the exhaust stroke, when it passes TDC, we can use this open exhaust valve, and the inertia movement of outgoing exhaust gas into the exhaust port, to "pull" fresh mixture in from the intake port, and get a "head start" on bringing fresh mixture into the engine for the intake stroke, even before the piston really starts to get going on the downward intake stroke. At least, that's the goal. During this time, some fresh intake mixture is sucked out the exhaust valve with the exhaust gas, but since that intake air is cooler, it helps to cool the exhaust valve as it passes into the exhaust port. Yes, this does waste a little intake mixture. But, it cools the exhaust valve, AND it begins an inertial movement of fresh mixture in from the intake port and gives us our "head start" in moving fresh mixture into the engine as the earliest possible time, during the "dwell period".
Then we close the exhaust valve when the piston starts taking over the job as it goes down.
That is the basic explanation of overlap.

Now, overlap works better at higher rpms than lower rpms, and it is often used to increase power levels at higher rpms, and wider overlaps are typical in performance cams for that reason. The "losses" which are caused by overlaps of both valves being open at low rpms are mitigated by the faster engine rpms, and the system works better at the faster speeds.

HOWEVER, there are factors in the Bullet engine, which enter into this equation.
And the biggest one is that our exhaust ports are oversize, and they do NOT hold a good fast exhaust speed during the exhaust event. And a good fast exhaust speed is CRITICAL for wide overlap cams to work properly.
Also, with the long-stroke/long-rod combination in the Bullet, we have quite a long period of "dwell time" around TDC, as I previously mentioned above, and if we don't have a good fast exhaust speed to cause the onset of  "sucking in" of fresh intake mixture from that, as planned, then it doesn't work like it's supposed to. Then what happens is that some of the exhaust gas gets pushed back into the intake port, and causes dilution of the intake charge mixture with something called "Burnt Gas Fraction"(BGF). This is ok for pollution control purposes, but not too good for power. The BGF then gets pulled back down into the cylinder with the fresh mixture, when the piston descends on the intake stroke, and some of the intake charge is now BGF, which dilutes the incoming mixture charge, and thus reduces the amount of power that the engine can make when it compresses and burns the intake mixture. And, at the same time, the intended amount of fresh mixture to cool the exhaust valve doesn't happen as well, either. All because of insufficient exhaust speeds, caused by our oversized exhaust port.

So, "what's a mother to do"?
Ha ha! :D

What we can do, is limit the overlap, so as to form a "trap". This traps the exhaust gases from going back up the intake as much, and traps the intake gases from being wasted as much for very little good purpose.
So, for the Bullet, limited overlap is really the best choice. Opening the intake valve at about 20 degrees BTDC , and closing the exhaust valve by 20 degrees ATDC would be better for wide-band power production in the Bullet. Only because our exhaust extraction effects are not good, and so that overlap stuff doesn't work as well as it should in our engine. The wide overlaps cause losses in the lower-mid rpms which causes the bike to be sluggish and weak until it gets to the higher rpms.

And guess what? The British designers of the original Bullet engine had it almost just that way. The original Bullet had about 54 degrees of valve overlap in the Redditch Bullet models, compared to our present-day 65 degrees overlap. And they produced more horsepower and torque than our present day India-made Bullets. The Indian manufacturers have changed our Bullet cam timing to wider overlap with more BGF, to limit exhaust emissions, for pollution control purposes. And hence, our modern Bullet power production is down on power by a few horsepower compared to the original British Bullet design of the 1950s.

Ok, so where does this leave us with the discussion of performance cams?
Well, it seems that all the modern cam designers like to build in alot of overlap in their racing cams, regardless of whether it is really productive in our particular engine. They like a big peak hp number at high rpms, because that's what sells cams. So, all the available sports cams are wide overlap cams.
The result is that they are most often quite soft and lame at lower rpms under 3500 rpm, but the overlap can begin to get more of what it intends to do at the faster rpm speeds. So, these cams do go pretty well at high rpms. But they are not very happy at normal lower road rpms, and normally neither are the owners and riders of the bikes that these kinds of cams are installed in.
Now, here's the bug in the ointment.
The Bullet, because of the design of the long-stroke engine has very fast piston speeds. And it has an alloy con-rod, which is not as strong as a steel con-rod would be. So, the very fast reciprocation of the reasonably heavy piston causes enough stress on that con-rod to require an rpm limit of around 5000rpm, or maybe up to 5500rpm(sparingly and cautiously).
So, what happens? All of a sudden you now have a 1500rpm useful power band, and it's ALL at the top of the range.

This is why many Bullet owners become disenchanted with their purchase of sports cams available today. Many take them back out after they find what has happened to the power curve of their engine.

The older original Redditch cams would be preferred, but they are not easily found in useable condition.
There is one other option which I have found out about, from one of my colleagues, but that's a subject for another discussion altogether.

Regarding your "bang for the buck and fuel efficiency" question, you can do all those things you listed, and add a compression increase and the corresponding ignition timing change which is required by the compression increase.
No more than 8:1 compression and 7.5:1 would do just peachy.
No fancy cams.
Keep the stock carburetor.
Keep the bike very well tuned.
Keep the chains very well ajusted, neither too tight or too loose. Chains can lose alot of power in transmission losses if they are not kept properly tensioned.
Don't let your tires get low on air.
If you can accept a lower riding position for less wind-resistance, that would be a good help for economy. Or even a proper fairing of size/type you could accept.
« Last Edit: November 28, 2008, 11:14:26 pm by ace.cafe »
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ace.cafe

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Reply #17 on: November 28, 2008, 10:18:13 pm
I wonder what the dyno specs are for the 535cc kit......Ace?

Sam in Indiana

.....

One other thing.
The high compression requires less ignition advance. So you limit your ignition advance to about 30 degrees BTDC at maximum advance. That's a good place to start out, and then you can listen for any "pinging", and fine-tune it in from there. If you don't  limit the full advance like that, you'll put a hole in the piston crown. Seen it many times.
Sometimes it helps to use a thicker head gasket, or 2 cylinder base gaskets, to knock the compression down a little to around 8:1. That solves the detonation issues because these pistons don't have a quench band, and are subject to potential detonation problems at their normal 8.5:1 compression. And it's a little easier on the bottom end bearings and the rod too.
If you use the billet crank and forged steel rod with Alpha roller on the big end, and a set of real good main bearings, then you don't have to worry about revving or the compression level, in terms of the bottom-end holding up. But the detonation issues are still there without a quench band, so you either drop it back to 8:1, or run some octane booster all the time.

....

I have the 535 alloy kit with Acralite piston with supposedly 8.5:1 compression ratio. I have also eliminated the head gasket by lapping head and jug together.
Double head gaskets or cylinder base gaskets are not sufficient to knock down compression enough. A 2mm compression plate in place of the base gasket was necessary to make my engine behave. The existing  base gasket was paper and another one wouldn't have changed much. The head gasket in the Bullet engine is not what you usually find a head gasket to be: compression, oil and/or coolant gasket all in one. Doubling up on the head gasket will lift the spigot off the sealing rim of the head and effectively eliminate the compression seal which is provided by the cylinder spigot and head recess.
Compression plates are available in different thicknesses and are what is to be used to knock down compression a bit.

Ignition advance indeed needs to be around 30 degrees with the 535 high comp kit and even lower with a projected tip plug. I use NGK BPR9EIX and it has never fouled despite it being such a cold plug. I highly recommend BPR8EIX or BPR9EIX - but forget static timing according to the manual with these. 

Peter
 

Yes Peter, good point.

Particularly when you eliminate the head gasket, there could very well be a need for more spacer thickness used under the cylinder barrel, to reduce the compression to a useful increase with that piston.

Thanks for bringing that subject to our attention.
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Reply #18 on: November 28, 2008, 11:21:34 pm
...Now, overlap works better at higher rpms than lower rpms, and it is often used to increase power levels at higher rpms, and wider overlaps are typical in performance cams for that reason. The "losses" which are caused by overlaps of both valves being open at low rpms are mitigated by the faster engine rpms, and the system works better at the faster speeds...
And that's why they developed variable valve timing, like Honda's V-TEC or Toyotas VVT so you have less overlap down low, more up high.

Thanks for the information on how this works specifically in the iron Bullet engine.  Very interesting about the oversize exhaust ports and how that effects speed of exhaust, and also interesting to know how RE India has decided to tune them for emissions control.  Too bad nobody makes the kind of cam you like on the Redditch bikes.  For a Jeep like mine, you can get what's usually called an RV cam, which does the opposite of most performance cams. An RV cam decreases overlap, raises low end torque and sacrifices max. rpm and some hp at high rpm.  Sounds like something the bullet could use since not many Bullet riders like to live at the high rpm that so other motobikes like.
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Reply #19 on: November 29, 2008, 12:19:46 am

...

Regarding your "bang for the buck and fuel efficiency" question, you can do all those things you listed, and add a compression increase and the corresponding ignition timing change which is required by the compression increase.
No more than 8:1 compression and 7.5:1 would do just peachy.
No fancy cams.
Keep the stock carburetor.
Keep the bike very well tuned.
Keep the chains very well ajusted, neither too tight or too loose. Chains can lose alot of power in transmission losses if they are not kept properly tensioned.
Don't let your tires get low on air.
If you can accept a lower riding position for less wind-resistance, that would be a good help for economy. Or even a proper fairing of size/type you could accept.

If you have eliminated the air box in favor of a K/N or similar in addition to all the above, you may find that lengthening the intake by putting a few inches of radiator hose between the filter and the carb gives even better results in terms of smooth torque/power delivery in the lower rpm range. About 4 inches did it for me.

http://www.enfieldmotorcycles.com/forum/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=1009


Peter
 


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Reply #20 on: December 05, 2008, 05:41:41 pm
Peter,
What are your impressions / opinions as to your 535 ? Are you happy with the results?
Any problems/quirks ?

Sam in Indiana


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Reply #21 on: December 06, 2008, 05:57:54 am
Ace, I'm converting my '08 iron barrel 500 back to 1950s specs in every way possible, and I'd like to replace the stock carb with an Amal. I've already fitted an aftermarket exhaust, K&N filter, and re-jetted. Any thoughts on Monobloc vs. Concentric, or whether this is even a worthwhile mod?
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ace.cafe

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Reply #22 on: December 06, 2008, 02:37:24 pm
Ace, I'm converting my '08 iron barrel 500 back to 1950s specs in every way possible, and I'd like to replace the stock carb with an Amal. I've already fitted an aftermarket exhaust, K&N filter, and re-jetted. Any thoughts on Monobloc vs. Concentric, or whether this is even a worthwhile mod?

Well, the monobloc is the period carb, and from what I've heard from some famous tuners, they prefer the monobloc over the concentric. I'm not sure what their reasons are for this preference.
If you are staying with the same size carb, it will not be any improvement in running. Just looks. But, for a period-looking bike, that would be the carb to use.
It's alot of money for just "looks", but it's the only way you can get the period-looking carb.

For performance, the CMW flatslide, or a flatslide Mikuni of 30mm or 32mm would be better. But it is not a 50s carb type and would look somewhat out of place. I'd consider a 30mm Amal monobloc for appearance and a slight performance boost in the upper-midrange rpms.

Be forewarned, Amals are built out of crappy metal, and they wear out very rapidly, thus leading to not being able to be tuned up, and thus all the complaints you read about them. Also, the mounting flanges distort very easily when you bolt them on the head, and that can distort the entire carb body, leading to air leak problems and slide operation problems that require machine work to correct. Never over-torque an Amal carb flange.
To me, I think they are more pain in the ass than they're worth. A Mikuni flatslide will trounce it in performance, and lasts way longer and doesn't have distortion problem from bolting. And the Mikuni is half the price of an Amal. The only thing the Mikuni won't do better than an Amal, is look like it's from the 50s.


I'm sure some will disagree, and this is my opinion based on those things I mentioned above..
« Last Edit: December 06, 2008, 03:36:57 pm by ace.cafe »
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Reply #23 on: December 06, 2008, 06:14:51 pm
Ace, seeing as you are an expert in this field, I'd be interested in any opinion you might have as to what I might to to further improve the performance of my diesel Enfield.

I had the head pocket ported and the engine coated with low friction coatings meant to disperse heat, had the crank and piston and flywheel balanced and the flywheel shaved (most finning removed, some "meat" from the inner wheel removed) all to improve performance.

It is a mechanically fuel injected diesel. Is there anything else you can suggest that I might do to improve its performance? I doubt I can buy high performance pistons or oversized pistons for it - seeing as it is a generator engine... but maybe you have some other ideas?



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Reply #24 on: December 06, 2008, 07:23:12 pm
Well, diesels aren't really my strong point.

What is the desired result that you are seeking to get from any improvements?
« Last Edit: December 06, 2008, 07:27:31 pm by ace.cafe »
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Reply #25 on: December 06, 2008, 08:47:49 pm
Incresed mpg, period.


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Reply #26 on: December 06, 2008, 11:21:29 pm
Okay, well I can think of a couple basic things.

See if you can find out what the stoichiometric ratio is for the biodiesel fuel that you are running. Try to run just slightly richer than stoichiometric, but leaner than best power ratio.
Perhaps a smaller throttle-body and smaller injectors which can support a full-throttle condition at torque peak. That is max engine efficiency. But, not too good for "get up and go".

Use synthetic oil of the lowest viscosity that is appropriate for your engine and temps.
Also use synthetic oil of the lowest allowable viscosity for the gearbox oil.
Keep all chains very accurately tensioned, as this is critical for best power transfer in the power train.

Gear the drive-train to be somewhere near maximum torque peak at the speeds you plan to ride at. Or even lower rpms, if your torque curve will support that. Least number of "thumps per mile" means less fuel burned.

Use very good quality, low-friction wheel bearings, and keep the tires inflated a little higher than normal for less rolling resistance.

Since I'm expecting this is a low-speed application, the rolling resistance is a bigger part of the load than the aerodynamics, but aerodynamics could play a part, so they should be optimized using bicycle type modifications.
A disc type rear wheel, or shroud over it will reduce the drag from the spinning spokes in the rear wheel and not be an adverse effect on stability in side winds.
A low riding position will reduce aero drag on the rider. The rider will be the most offensive aerodynamic component, so lower position is helpful. Believe it or not, tight clothing which doesn't flap in the wind is very helpful to reduce drag, even at low speeds.
A small aerodynamic racing-style handlebar fairing can go a long way towards reducing drag on the rider even further.

If you feel really creative and adventurous, there are fully enclosed type fairing systems which are made for "hyper-milers" that can be obtained, but they can be a bit restrictive in riding positiion.
The "Rifle" fairing which was a Vetter design in the 1980s held the "hyper-miler"  record for a long time, with a mpg of about 470mpg.

Here's the link to the hypermiling motorcyle Vetter website.

http://www.craigvetter.com/pages/470MPG/high%20mileage%20fairing.html

And here's a pic of the 470mpg record holder in 1985
« Last Edit: December 06, 2008, 11:43:23 pm by ace.cafe »
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geoffbaker

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Reply #27 on: December 07, 2008, 12:18:10 am
The rider will be the most offensive aerodynamic component, so lower position is helpful.

Hey, you're calling me offensive!

:)

Thanks, something to chew on. Won't do most of it (too expensive), but aero mods when possible are a good idea.
I am thinking about a windscoop to shovel as much air into the engine as possible, and also vapor injection. Any thoughts on those?


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Reply #28 on: December 07, 2008, 01:02:52 am
The rider will be the most offensive aerodynamic component, so lower position is helpful.

Hey, you're calling me offensive!

:)

Thanks, something to chew on. Won't do most of it (too expensive), but aero mods when possible are a good idea.
I am thinking about a windscoop to shovel as much air into the engine as possible, and also vapor injection. Any thoughts on those?

I think that unless you are looking for improved acceleration or top speed power, then trying for ram air is not going to be productive from a fuel economy standpoint. And often the aero drag created by the scoop off-sets any power gains you might get.

Vapor injection is do-able, but on a diesel there is so much compression already that I'd be concerned about engine damage from the expansion ratio of the water vapor.
Perhaps a small percentage might be ok. There's probably some data floating around about vapor injection into diesels. If you can do it without damage, there may be some gains there.



I really think that reducing loads from wind drag and rolling resistance will pay the most dividends for least expenditure.

« Last Edit: December 07, 2008, 01:17:35 am by ace.cafe »
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Reply #29 on: December 07, 2008, 01:22:40 am
I think that unless you are looking for improved acceleration or top speed power, then trying for ram air is not going to be productive from a fuel economy standpoint. And often the aero drag created by the scoop off-sets any power gains you might get.

Vapor injection is do-able, but on a diesel there is so much compression already that I'd be concerned about engine damage from the expansion ratio of the water vapor.
Perhaps a small percentage might be ok. There's probably some data floating around about vapor injection into diesels. If you can do it without damage, there may be some gains there.



I really think that reducing loads from wind drag and rolling resistance will pay the most dividends for least expenditure.



Vapor injection is not uncommon on diesels (generally with methanol) and report up to about 20% improvement in mpg although mostly they do it to reduce temperature during intensive applications like tractor pulls etc.

I'd read that the more air you can put in a diesel the better it performs. Not turbo or supercharging, just as much air as possible. So a scoop would help, but yes, scoops offset aero gains.

I can't afford full fairings, I already have a windshield which will help some. I am thinking I could make a couple of small fairings to cover the sides of the bike just behind the engine.


ace.cafe

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Reply #30 on: December 07, 2008, 01:36:55 am
Well yes, more air is a general benefit, but it must be matched by additional fuel to maintain correct air/fuel ratio, or you run lean.
Generally more fuel used per cycle is good for power, but not necessarily for fuel economy.

I can really only speak to the broadest generalities here, because I don't know enough about the specifics of your engine to even really begin to know how to modify it, beyond the most basic concepts. I'd have to really study that engine design.
And I'm not a diesel expert to begin with.
So, all I can do is scratch the surface of this, and then add in the other typical energy saving techniques that apply to all vehicles.
« Last Edit: December 07, 2008, 04:00:53 am by ace.cafe »
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Reply #31 on: December 07, 2008, 04:38:52 pm
Well yes, more air is a general benefit, but it must be matched by additional fuel to maintain correct air/fuel ratio, or you run lean.

I'm no expert either just playing around. My theory is with enough tinkering I can find the right mix.... more air, a small amount of water vapor, and as little fuel as I can get away with, to get the maximum mile for the buck.

I'm using my old Mikuni carb as a water injector (it's entirely the same principle). I've cut away as much of the inner slide as possible (because I don't want the water injector to restrict air intake, which is the dfference; a carburetor controls liquid AND air, I want to just control liquid in this case. I'm going to mount an air scoop where the old air box used to be, projecting out maybe two inches more, with a K&N cone filter inside, with hosing to the carb. I'll need to make a flange to bolt to the engine air intake. Then I'll tie the carb slide into my throttle cabling so it controls both, and add a cutoff switch as I don't want water going into the system at startup or shutdown.

We'll see how it goes.

I'll work on the aero mods as I go.

I had also considered an oil cooler based on an electric scavenge pump, drawing from the twin oil drain plugs on the engine; but so far the engine hasn't gotten hotter than 170 degrees, so I'm thinking she's going to run plenty cool enough. I'll know more after a few long runs.

The Veypor computer is really the key; with a real-time mpg meter I can carefully monitor riding technique to maximize mpg.
« Last Edit: December 07, 2008, 04:41:26 pm by geoffbaker »


ace.cafe

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Reply #32 on: December 07, 2008, 04:51:53 pm
You could try an inlet tract extension tube, similar to what I just posted a thread about.
The longer, the better.
Longer will work at lower rpms that we are operating in with both of our engines, and short just misses the mark entirely, because short only helps in high rpms that we can't even reach.
If you have your air filter right on the carb, and the likely short inlet tract inside the head, this might help with breathing on your engine.
It's cheap, and worth a try.
My new thread on this shows my bike with the extension installed, and it's really very simple.
You can just try different lengths, and do some testing with your Veypor to determine if it's doing anything for you, and what lengths might work best.
Even a foot long tube, or even longer can be very good, if you can fit it on.
Mine is 6" long, plus the length of the K&N filter, because that's all the room I had.
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Reply #33 on: January 02, 2009, 05:05:46 am
This is in reply to the posts about fairings and forcing air to the engine. I don't know about any ram effect for the intake but I have been watching episodes of "Jay's Garage" online and he has many very cool vintage bikes which he talks about at length and then takes out for a ride. For those who don't know I am talking about Jay Leno. He knows his oddball vintage! Even has a Bullet but I haven't seen a segment on it. Anyway, he had a streamlined Vincent Back Shadow he was profiling and mentioned that an unintended consequence of having the entire bike encased was that since air was channeled directly to the engine instead of just passing by, the engine ran cooler! That is definitely a bonus. Anyway, just wanted to pass that along.   


ace.cafe

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Reply #34 on: January 02, 2009, 02:37:53 pm
This is in reply to the posts about fairings and forcing air to the engine. I don't know about any ram effect for the intake but I have been watching episodes of "Jay's Garage" online and he has many very cool vintage bikes which he talks about at length and then takes out for a ride. For those who don't know I am talking about Jay Leno. He knows his oddball vintage! Even has a Bullet but I haven't seen a segment on it. Anyway, he had a streamlined Vincent Back Shadow he was profiling and mentioned that an unintended consequence of having the entire bike encased was that since air was channeled directly to the engine instead of just passing by, the engine ran cooler! That is definitely a bonus. Anyway, just wanted to pass that along.   

Yes, one of the benefits of fairing the bike in, if it's done correctly, is a reduction in "cooling drag".
Cooling drag is the aerodynamic drag(wind resistance) that is created by the air flowing over the cooling fins and other parts of the engine, which causes turbulent flow around these protrusions. It can account for about 10% of the overall drag figure for the bike.

In the 1920s, the NACA organization did studies on how to reduce cooling drag, for use on military aircraft with radial aircooled engines, such as the biplanes of that era.
The cylinders were originally just out in the airstream, much like motorcycle engines are. When overheating conditions became problems, they found that sticking the cylinders further out in the air did NOT improve the situation, and the plane actually went slower.
The answer was the first version of the "NACA Duct". It is sometimes called a "cowl" or "cowling".This faired most of the air outside the cylinder fins, but allowed just enough air thru to do the cooling requirement.
The shape of the cowl caused the smaller amount of cooiling air entering the duct to slow down as it got inside the cowling and moved along the cylinder fins for cooling.
Since the drag equation includes speed of the air as a prime factor, reducing speed of the air as it flows past an object exponentially reduces drag.
So, the NACA cowling cleverly slowed down the speed of the only the air that flowed past the cylinder fins, while the aircraft didn't slow down in airspeed. Thus dramatically reducing drag, increasing top speed, and improving engine cooling, all with a simple cowling.
They calculated how much duct area would be needed to cool the engine, and faired everything else around the outer fuselage. The trailing edge of the cowling had hi-speed air moving past it, so it "extracted" the hot air out from behind the cylinders, making room for more cool air to come in from the front at the duct.
The "cooling flaps" that you sometimes see in old WW2 movies of fighter planes, adjust the amount of "extraction" that happens, and thus the amount of cooling is adjustable. Of course, with drag penalties with the cooling flaps wide open, but drag improvements when they are closed down for cruising.

These NACA projects were some of the earliest and most important studies of drag. The principles can be used on motorcycles, and in fact, are used in all modern radiator designs in cars, aircraft, or whatever, and are still just as viable to aircooled finned engines as they were back in the 1920s.

Here's a picture of a WW2 F4U Corsair which shows the NACA cowl over the engine and also showing the cooling flaps open at the back end of the cowl, where the air was extracted.
« Last Edit: January 02, 2009, 09:27:25 pm by ace.cafe »
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Reply #35 on: January 02, 2009, 07:05:12 pm
Very interesting, Ace!
Long live the Bullets and those who ride them!

Keep the shiny side up, the boots on the pegs and best REgards,

Papa Juan

REA:    Member No. 119
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jonapplegate

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Reply #36 on: January 09, 2009, 06:22:10 am
 Chance Vought Corsairs!  Always my favorite American made, designed, prop-driven Fighter. Ugly, hard to land, in the right hands it was simply unbeatable. Thanks for the post about cowling and cooling. I imagine this is why you see some older (and most newer) cars with hardly any opening for the radiator yet they seem to run just fine without overheating problems.
  I don't think Corsairs are ugly by the way. Function over form. Every weird little thing about it got to be there for a reason.
 One of my favorite childhood memories was a guy at the local airfield who owned a Corsair, don't know which model, out flying one day over a field I cut through. As he was flying toward me from the opposite side of the field, I waved. Guy tips it on its wing and waved back to me from the cockpit! I still get excited just thinking about it now.


jonapplegate

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Reply #37 on: January 09, 2009, 06:26:47 am
F4U-4 or F4U-5? Probably an F4U-4. I guess it could be a 2 or 3 since any would take the 4 blade prop. I know its not a 1 because the bubble is different.


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Reply #38 on: January 09, 2009, 02:06:50 pm
Hi Ace
The NACA cowling actually reduced drag on those radial
powerplant installations to the point they were  better
than the inline liquid cooled engines(rolls,alision,diamler)
I think some actually added thrust.
Kurt Tank did furher work with some internal fans.
Not so sure of those results.
Jeri
« Last Edit: January 09, 2009, 02:23:29 pm by Jeri Danger »


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Reply #39 on: January 09, 2009, 05:02:00 pm
OK,we started out on the RE,now it's aircraft....oh,what the hell....Since we're on that now....and Jeri mentioned Kurt Tank....there's just one a/c that comes to(my)
mind....FW190.....what a machine.


ace.cafe

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Reply #40 on: January 09, 2009, 05:44:08 pm
OK,we started out on the RE,now it's aircraft....oh,what the hell....Since we're on that now....and Jeri mentioned Kurt Tank....there's just one a/c that comes to(my)
mind....FW190.....what a machine.


Ok, I'll take it one step further away from topic!
Speaking of FW190, I once owned the Luftwaffe Officer's Sword of Joachim Brendel, who flew FW190 fighters(among others), and was the 18th highest fighter ace of all time, with 189 kills on the Eastern Front. Winner of the Knight's Cross with oak leaf cluster
The sword scabbard was engraved with his name/rank/fighter group number.
I eventually traded it for a Samurai Wakizashi from the Edo Period, in the 1400s or early  1500s. Sold that later  to a guy in Switzerland for about $6k. I found out later that the Brendel sword was very valuable, and was probably worth over $20k, or even should maybe have gone to a museum.
 I don't do swords anymore. Too expensive for my income now.
« Last Edit: January 09, 2009, 05:52:01 pm by ace.cafe »
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Reply #41 on: January 09, 2009, 09:52:20 pm
FW 190 is an itneresting bird since it had both radial engine and inline engine versions (Dora long nose and others).  Guess the early radial engine models were much better fighters... went to inline to cram more HP to carry more "stuff"...

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Reply #42 on: January 10, 2009, 12:25:56 am
Nothing exciting to add,sorry.Interesting to see knowledge of the great piston engined aircraft.Don't seem out of place here.So glad to find this site.Feel I can do better with future mods to bike.Thanx for sharing.Have so far done only initial mods to intake-exhaust,richer jetting,cutting off some wieght,etc.Very pleased.Have a 9:1 cast piston in .100 over,any thoughts on this other than paper wieght?


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Reply #43 on: January 10, 2009, 01:09:29 am
To me ,the radial engined "A" models were the most attractive looking,with the Dora's
looking ever so sinister and purposeful.....the AM6 Zero also had just the right
proportions to look great,too.


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Reply #44 on: January 10, 2009, 02:32:20 am
Sam, you know Howard Hughes designed the Zero? U.S. passed on it but I imagine that Cockpit Armor, which the Japanese built Zero didn't have, would have drastically changed its handling. Zeros were definitely beautiful aircraft. It's said that if a plane looks like it will fly, it will fly.
  I also love the looks of the Supermarine Spitfire. One look at that and you know where the design of the Mustang came from.
 While huge, for a fighter, I also am quite interested in the P38 Lightning. Not many made, lotsa problems that couldn't be fully worked out in time but holy smokes that thing had some serious potential. I wonder if anyone manufactures planes derived from this design. Like the Corsair, This machines tail had a straight shot of prop wash coming right into it. This makes for very good agility. On the Corsair it was an aftereffect of having to drop the wings down so the landing gear wasn't so long and flimsy. On the Lightning, this uninhindered shot of propelled air was there by design. Okay, I am rambling. Bikes! 


ace.cafe

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Reply #45 on: January 10, 2009, 04:03:12 am
Nothing exciting to add,sorry.Interesting to see knowledge of the great piston engined aircraft.Don't seem out of place here.So glad to find this site.Feel I can do better with future mods to bike.Thanx for sharing.Have so far done only initial mods to intake-exhaust,richer jetting,cutting off some wieght,etc.Very pleased.Have a 9:1 cast piston in .100 over,any thoughts on this other than paper wieght?

It depends on which 9:1 piston it is, but both the Hepolite and Robins versions are pretty good.
However, 9:1 is a bit much for the stock bottom-end, so it's best to use a compression plate under the cylinder barrel to reduce compression down into the 8:1 neighborhood, so as to ease the loads on the bottom end.
8:1 is about the most that is really suitable for the stock bottom-end for long term use.
I know that some use the 8.5:1 piston with the stock bottom-end, but that's pushing it a bit. There's very little gain in that extra half point compression, and it's hardly worth the risk to stress the bottom-end for such a small gain in power.
8:1 is fine for power and longevity with the stock bottom-end.

I'd recommend that a decent set of rings be used with it. Preferably with a 3-piece oil scraper ring. The 1-piece oil scraper rings that I've seen come standard on those pistons isn't very good. 3-piece oil ring is the way to go.
« Last Edit: January 10, 2009, 04:05:08 am by ace.cafe »
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single

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Reply #46 on: January 10, 2009, 04:54:51 am
Thanx for the advise on the  9:1 piston,I really appreciate it.I  also have put in the oil "pump" kit and the 18 tooth sprocket.I want to to put on an oil cooler before I do the piston deal,prbly next winter. Trying to make it live,as well as go quicker.Very aware of limitations,not looking for rocket,just like to improve and do stuff.Work on MGs for extra money,pretty used to this kind of "thing".Like to work on needful things,I guess.


ace.cafe

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Reply #47 on: January 10, 2009, 01:48:41 pm
Thanx for the advise on the  9:1 piston,I really appreciate it.I  also have put in the oil "pump" kit and the 18 tooth sprocket.I want to to put on an oil cooler before I do the piston deal,prbly next winter. Trying to make it live,as well as go quicker.Very aware of limitations,not looking for rocket,just like to improve and do stuff.Work on MGs for extra money,pretty used to this kind of "thing".Like to work on needful things,I guess.

When using the hi-volume oil pumps with standard bottom end, it is advised to allow a bit of warm-up after cold starting, before revving the engine, or "blipping the throttle" during warm-up. Just start the engine and let it sit at a normal idle or slightly fast idle, until the oil gets a little warmed-up. Especially if you use a single-grade oil like SAE 50.
The combination of thick cold oil and the bigger pump plunger can put some strain on the fragile oil pump spindle gear teeth. If they break off, then engine oiling ceases totally, and that is never a good thing. I should think that using multi-grade oil such as 20W-50 should probably minimize the concern about that.
But, it wouldn't hurt to warm it before any revving anyway, just to be safe.
Most engine wear occurs during cold running before the oil is heated up properly, so it's advisable to warm before revving in any case.
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72westie

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Reply #48 on: January 10, 2009, 03:17:01 pm
I would put a alloy cylinder on the bike before a oil cooler. The cylinder made a huge difference for us. I think a oil cooler would look out of place on a Enfield.
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single

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Reply #49 on: January 10, 2009, 04:03:34 pm
Yeah,I don't like the idea of the appearance of a cooler and if you hide it,may as well forget it so my mind isn't made up yet on that.I am pretty sure I want the alloy jug as it fits the reliability plan.Appreciate the advise on throttle use when cold.Use 20-50,but will warm engine as you suggest.No point in being in a hurry with one of these,probly.


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Reply #50 on: January 11, 2009, 02:28:18 am
I have always wanted to add an oil cooler since even before I purchased. Do any of you have any good recommendations? I am not necessarily concerned by the looks, as long as its small.


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Reply #51 on: January 11, 2009, 02:53:51 am
Why do you want an oil cooler?
Considering a hack?
Are you pulling heavy loads a low speed up hill on a hot day?
 I feel that mine doesn't run hot enough. But most days under 50*F and wet, with aluminum head (AVL)
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ace.cafe

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Reply #52 on: January 11, 2009, 05:38:54 am
In some locations, particularly in the south and west, it can get hot enough in the summer to warrant an oil cooler.

It can be as simple as a relatively short added length of copper tubing, or as elaborate as a finned cooler.
There is a small cooler for Harleys, called a "mini-cooler" that's a popular size for a Bullet, and isn't too obtrusive.

I'd think that it goes without saying that it should be removed or bypassed for cold weather riding.
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Reply #53 on: January 12, 2009, 03:59:11 am
Hmmmm......... I had never considered copper tubing. Perhaps a length, spiraled, would have that quirky old fashioned look. How would a cooler be plumbed into this engine?


ace.cafe

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Reply #54 on: January 12, 2009, 02:56:12 pm
Hmmmm......... I had never considered copper tubing. Perhaps a length, spiraled, would have that quirky old fashioned look. How would a cooler be plumbed into this engine?

You cut the external oil feed line that goes to the rockers.
Use appropriate connections to attach the oil cooler, with any oil line extensions you may need for placement of the cooler.
Many people simply use rubber hose and hose clamps to connect it.
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Reply #55 on: January 12, 2009, 03:16:10 pm
Sam, you know Howard Hughes designed the Zero? U.S. passed on it but I imagine that Cockpit Armor, which the Japanese built Zero didn't have, would have drastically changed its handling. Zeros were definitely beautiful aircraft. It's said that if a plane looks like it will fly, it will fly.
  I also love the looks of the Supermarine Spitfire. One look at that and you know where the design of the Mustang came from.
 While huge, for a fighter, I also am quite interested in the P38 Lightning. Not many made, lotsa problems that couldn't be fully worked out in time but holy smokes that thing had some serious potential. I wonder if anyone manufactures planes derived from this design. Like the Corsair, This machines tail had a straight shot of prop wash coming right into it. This makes for very good agility. On the Corsair it was an aftereffect of having to drop the wings down so the landing gear wasn't so long and flimsy. On the Lightning, this uninhindered shot of propelled air was there by design. Okay, I am rambling. Bikes! 
Hi
Jiro Horikoshi designed the Zero, credit where credit is due
I think(don't quote me) about 15,000 lightnings came off the line.
Jeri


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Reply #56 on: January 12, 2009, 03:24:27 pm
Hmmmm......... I had never considered copper tubing. Perhaps a length, spiraled, would have that quirky old fashioned look. How would a cooler be plumbed into this engine?

You cut the external oil feed line that goes to the rockers.
Use appropriate connections to attach the oil cooler, with any oil line extensions you may need for placement of the cooler.
Many people simply use rubber hose and hose clamps to connect it.
Hi
There are photos of the oil cooler installation in the yahoo group.
Looks like a really simple mod.
I think if you do extended highway speeds you would want to do this.
Jeri


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Reply #57 on: January 12, 2009, 08:18:52 pm
Ok, I'll take it one step further away from topic!
 I found out later that the Brendel sword was very valuable, and was probably worth over $20k, or even should maybe have gone to a museum.
 I don't do swords anymore. Too expensive for my income now.

Should we start a thread on "carrying" swords???


ace.cafe

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Reply #58 on: January 12, 2009, 08:55:48 pm
Ok, I'll take it one step further away from topic!
 I found out later that the Brendel sword was very valuable, and was probably worth over $20k, or even should maybe have gone to a museum.
 I don't do swords anymore. Too expensive for my income now.

Should we start a thread on "carrying" swords???

If you like.
Very difficut to manage concealed carry with swords. Not very concealable.
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LJRead

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Reply #59 on: January 13, 2009, 04:06:58 am
Just to round this illuminating discussion out - my first bicycle was a "Spitfire", bought used, probably made shortly after the war - small bike for a small kid - got lots of use.

Not very aerodynamic, as I recall, no cowling at all. ;D


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Reply #60 on: January 13, 2009, 04:11:20 am
Larry, how many teeth on the rear sprocket?   ;)
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Reply #61 on: January 17, 2009, 02:50:37 am
I may have been fed the wrong info about the Zero. I got it from a t.v. Documentary. I guess just cause its on T.V. doesn't mean its true. Just to give it one more try, is it possible that the design was based on a Hughes design? I won't be crushed if Hughes had nothing to do with it. That is just what I remember being claimed. 


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Reply #62 on: January 19, 2009, 05:03:11 pm
Hi
Lots of work was being put into
radial engined aircraft. Kurt tank
Mr. Hughs, Horikoshi, Kartivalli
the guys at Gruman.
Mr.Hughs certainly pointed the way
with his racer.
Jeri