[DocSavage]

Well -

When using the electric starter today I think well and truly fragged my sprag cluch.  I have a 2007 ES 500 Ironhead. 

I pulled the primary and sure enough there was some metal teeth looking things in the bottom.  The main starter gear looks good - no teeth missing there.

My big question is that after cleaning out the particles can i just reassemble and kick start as normal?  At least until I get time to pull the whole guts out to replace? I normally just kick start it anyway....

I knew things were going too well.l

-Andy

[Peter]

No, you can't.
You need to remove the alternator and clutch and the inner primary cover and then you can remove  the gears going up to the sprag clutch and the vile clutch assembly itself.
If you want to get rid of the starter motor, you need to figure out a way to plug the the hole.
Better do a good job there because it is a pain to have to take everything apart again if it starts leaking.

Peter

[ace.cafe]

My condolences.

I hear this lament all too often.

[taildraggin]

CMW has some 5spd kickstart inner primary covers (and the KS gasket)...for about the same cost as the replacement sprag clutch.

That's clean:

[23hp]

Nasty,  Know how you feel.

Just repaired mine on my electra and have one more spare sitting there for the next time...  After that I´m going to plug the hole and remove all the assembly and just kick start her...

.

[ace.cafe]

I know I sound like Captain Obvious, but these bikes are a kick-start bike with a bodge stuck on them that masquerades as an electric starter for just long enough for you to break it.

My "obvious" recommendation:
Forget that this bike even has an electric starter, and use the intended kickstarter.
Save yourself alot of headaches.
You can just pretend that those e-start parts are just pretty little decorations that were put on there to unnecessarily jack-up the price of the bike and add 20 pounds of useless weight.
Oh Wait! That's what they are! You're not pretending!

[DocSavage]

Ace -

I am starting to agree with your sentiment. Interestingly enough it kick starts the first time every time with out any fuss now that the sprag is toast.

I think I am just going to yank it out. 

[fredgold52]

My Sprague has been gone since I first got yhe bike home.  Ace, I fully agree with your appraisal of the estart stuff hanging from my engine.  It truly is a shame that the whole electric start thing couldn't have been executed better. 

Doc, when mine went, there were no fragments or pieces in the bottom of the primary.  There must be a secondary way these things can stop functioning that doen not include schrapnel.  I may fix mine next Spring.  Not so much to have an estart but just so I can say that everything on the bike works.   

[ace.cafe]

Wait til you look inside your primary, and notice that, in all likelihood, your primary chain has sawn partway thru your lower alternator mounting post, like a chain saw.

This happened when they re-located the alternator mounting posts for the E-start bikes.

The kickstart bikes have the alternator mounting posts rotated about 45 degrees(the way it's always been, previous to ES), which keeps them out of the way of the primary chain.
There's hope! You can convert it with just a little bit of work.

[REpozer]

Doc,
 Did you have a full liter (1000ml) of oil in your primary? Its supposed help ward of the frag evils.

[Bath Bullet]

I was warned about this problem when I was looking for a bike, glad I settled on the K/S classic, I do like that conversion Taildraggin, makes it look more authentic

[DocSavage]

I do always keep a full liter of oil in the primary after reading the same thing (although it is hard to keep the level there with the mystery leak that I can't find).

I had been worried because there is sometimes a clunk on starting - not exactly a kickback but a  bounce and failure to follow through to the kick start or electric start. I have never had a backfire and it is equipped with electronic ignition (and a new battery)....

I was wondering if a loose-ish primary chain could contribute.  Although as I said before now that the sprag is gone the kick start is as smooth as silk.

[PhilJ]

I've been thinking of taking the e-start off and cutting the gear housing off and weld over the remain hole. Polish it really nice and enjoy the new look without a sprag to disintegrate.

I'm still not convinced that there weren't just a bad batch of sprags. Mine is an '08 Classic AVL and has never given any problems even with the manuals recommended oil level of Mobil 1 ATF. But then I don't use the e-start much. The bike has kicked back as often as I don't kick it through properly and still hasn't come apart.

[ace.cafe]

I've been thinking of taking the e-start off and cutting the gear housing off and weld over the remain hole. Polish it really nice and enjoy the new look without a sprag to disintegrate.

I'm still not convinced that there weren't just a bad batch of sprags. Mine is an '08 Classic AVL and has never given any problems even with the manuals recommended oil level of Mobil 1 ATF. But then I don't use the e-start much. The bike has kicked back as often as I don't kick it through properly and still hasn't come apart.

There was a bad run of sprags for awhile. That contributed to the problem occurring. The later ones were supposed to be better, but it's hard to say how much better the QC actually is on these parts. Some may be good and some not.

The quirk with the electronic ignition on the Electra also contributed to the demise of sprags, and apparently that isn't even totally figured out yet, or might have just now been figured out.

I look at it this way. Unless your leg is broken, then kick-start the bike.
It eliminates the possibility of a very expensive and irritating problem happening.
As Dirty Harry would ask,"Do you feel lucky today?"
Why use it? It's a problem waiting to happen. The kick-starter works just fine. The electric starter was never needed to begin with. It was a marketing gimmick.
I just kick-started my 2000 Bullet yesterday in 35 degree weather with one kick.
What's the big deal with needing an electric starter?

If you don't like the looks of the "tumor" on the front of the primary case, you can do as you described, and get it off there. However, if that look isn't a problem, you can just decide not to push the button anymore. You don't HAVE to take it off, although I think it looks better without the "tumor". But, it isn't necessary.
I think it's just simply logical to not use the thing, when they break often enough to cause concern. It's an optional system. You can simply choose to kick instead of push the button, and save yourself from a big potential problem that you don't have to be burdened with.

Maybe periodically exercise it a couple times a year on nice warm sunny days, just so it doesn't freeze up from lack of use over the years. That way it will still work, so you can say it still does, if you want to.

[PhilJ]

True, True. But the big wart is as ugly as a Bull dog in heat.