Author Topic: it's painted! (mostly...) and it doesn't run... LOL  (Read 165 times)

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Stogierob

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HI, All

Been a while, but life and one bitter winter with no heat in the garage can put a damper on things.

She's painted and fully reassembled.  there are extra parts, nuts, bolts, and washers still on the workbench, but i'm not worrying about that right now.  The important stuff is on the bike.  as the photos show, the headlight still needs to be installed and the battery cover is getting repainted tonight. 

And she doesn't run.  she doesn't spark.  the kickstarter moves so effortlessly compared to my 08 RE that i'm not really sure there's compression.  I have a compression tool/gauge, but not the right threading to screw it in to the head.  but she's not dripping gas and she's not dripping oil.  there is a small at fluid drip, but i know i need a new gasket.  i'll accept a small drip for now.

The battery has been sitting on the charger for several months, but it's only showing 11.7V.  the ammeter needle is pointing to the 11:30 position (slightly to the left of center) and doesn't flinch when i swing the kick starter.  I probably should get a new battery, but that's not in the budget for a few months.  been checking the other posts and I'll start unplugging, cleaning, and replugging in all of the electrical connectors.  I think i have a replacement plug somewhere as the one in the bike is nice and black.

Glad to be back...
Stogierob







1977 RE Bullet 350 that is slowly being converted to resemble a WWII era bike...


mrunderhill1975a

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Reply #1 on: July 10, 2019, 06:32:07 pm
First thing to find out is if you have compression.  Put your thumb over the spark plug hole.  You should not be able to hold you thumb on that hole while the bike is being kicked.

If you have that amount of compression, you can move onto spark check.  To get spark you will need a good battery charge.  If the horn will blow loudly, the battery should have enough charge to make a spark.  If not charge the battery. I forgot to ask, is this still points ignition or has it been changed to electronic ignition?  If electronic, a fully charged battery  (12.7 + volts) is necessary to get the electronics to work.  Eleven volts will likely not activate the electronics.

If still no spark, check the battery ground behind the battery where it connects to the frame.  The new paint may be interrupting the flow of electrons.  Get some sand paper, sand that ground connection until you have shiny metal. Check for spark again.

If still no spark check corroded points, or nil point gap.  If that ok, check to see if there is an internal short in points assembly or in coil.
« Last Edit: July 10, 2019, 06:36:13 pm by mrunderhill1975a »


tooseevee

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Reply #2 on: July 10, 2019, 07:34:52 pm
HI, All

She's painted and fully reassembled. 

And she doesn't run.  she doesn't spark.

The battery has been sitting on the charger for several months, but it's only showing 11.7V.  I probably should get a new battery,

 I think i have a replacement plug somewhere as the one in the bike is nice and black.
Stogierob



        I'll bet that a new battery and new plug will go a long way toward starting that really nice looking with its new paint job bike.
'08 Black AVL Classic.Extensive ACEhead work/manifold/canister. TM32.Small open bottle/hot tube removed.Pertronix Coil. Fed mandates removed.Gr.TCI.Bobber seat.Battery in right side case. Decomp&all doodads removed.'30s Lucas taillight/7" visored headlight. Much blackout & wire/electrical upgrades.


Bilgemaster

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Reply #3 on: July 10, 2019, 07:36:06 pm
That battery's a goner, and will only fuzz bucket any diagnostic maneuvers from here on in. Replace it.

That said, she's looking good...VERY 'Battle of the Bulgey'. Those brassy bits are a wee bit twee and eye catching as-is, but carry on soldier.
« Last Edit: July 10, 2019, 07:45:10 pm by Bilgemaster »
So badass my Enfield's actually illegal  in India.


Stogierob

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Reply #4 on: July 11, 2019, 08:26:07 am
so the order is  battery & plug and thumb check compression.  easy enough.  the horn i have sounded very weak when i tried it.  it looks like it's a newer horn, so it's probably the battery and not the horn that's busted.

The brass is coming off or getting painted.  i have the original handlebar, but wasn't going to mess with that until i had her running.  i may replace it sooner since i still have work to do anyway.

points - i think i know where that is...  hopefully there's a video somewhere that will explain how it actually works. 

Thanks!
Rob

1977 RE Bullet 350 that is slowly being converted to resemble a WWII era bike...


Bilgemaster

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Reply #5 on: July 11, 2019, 09:03:38 am
I would advise not even LOOKING at those points until there's a fresh new fully-charged battery hooked up reading at least 12.5 Volts (and not an electron less).

By the way, they're located under the round cap held on by two screws on the lefthand side between the cylinder barrel and the battery box.
« Last Edit: July 11, 2019, 01:36:25 pm by Bilgemaster »
So badass my Enfield's actually illegal  in India.


tooseevee

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Reply #6 on: July 11, 2019, 01:14:05 pm
the horn i have sounded very weak when i tried it.  it looks like it's a newer horn, so it's probably the battery and not the horn that's busted.


        A battery can blow a horn or even light the lights and still come nowhere near cranking the engine over fast enough or long enough to start it.

         And cranking with a weak battery is no good for the starter.

          Get a good AGM battery and a tender.
'08 Black AVL Classic.Extensive ACEhead work/manifold/canister. TM32.Small open bottle/hot tube removed.Pertronix Coil. Fed mandates removed.Gr.TCI.Bobber seat.Battery in right side case. Decomp&all doodads removed.'30s Lucas taillight/7" visored headlight. Much blackout & wire/electrical upgrades.


Bilgemaster

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Reply #7 on: July 11, 2019, 01:41:02 pm
        A battery can blow a horn or even light the lights and still come nowhere near cranking the engine over fast enough or long enough to start it.

         And cranking with a weak battery is no good for the starter.

          Get a good AGM battery and a tender.

It seems our man Stogierob is lucky enough not to have one of those flakey starters.
So badass my Enfield's actually illegal  in India.


tooseevee

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Reply #8 on: July 11, 2019, 03:57:52 pm
It seems our man Stogierob is lucky enough not to have one of those flakey starters.

       That's right. Duh ??? He's kick only.

        Carry on.
'08 Black AVL Classic.Extensive ACEhead work/manifold/canister. TM32.Small open bottle/hot tube removed.Pertronix Coil. Fed mandates removed.Gr.TCI.Bobber seat.Battery in right side case. Decomp&all doodads removed.'30s Lucas taillight/7" visored headlight. Much blackout & wire/electrical upgrades.


Stogierob

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Reply #9 on: July 11, 2019, 05:42:49 pm
and the quest for a battery continues...  my current battery is an Exide 12XR5L-B, which i have learned is a 5AH battery.  the only '12' batteries on the market in the local area (and online so far) are 10AH batteries and are entirely too big. 

So my 'i have so much to learn' question of the day is:  if the bike is kick-start, and the stator recharges the battery while running, what is the battery actually used for on the bike?

Thanks!
Rob
1977 RE Bullet 350 that is slowly being converted to resemble a WWII era bike...


Arizoni

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Reply #10 on: July 11, 2019, 07:12:06 pm
IMO, if the bike is kickstart only, a 5AH battery should be enough.
About the only big drain on the battery is the headlight and if yours is one of those RE's that uses a AC power from the alternator to light the headlight, it won't even have to do that.

By the way, if your RE has a switch to turn on the headlight, turn it off while your trying to figure out what the problem is.

For what it's worth, also IMO, your 11.7 volt reading from the existing battery should be more than enough to make the ignition coil fire a healthy spark at the spark plug.  That assumes the main fuse is good and all of the wiring connections are making good contact.

About those ignition points:  After you remove the cover you should see the points.  They will have a spring on them and a little fiber block that is rubbing on a cam on the shaft.  An electric wire will be attached to them along with a wire coming out of a little tiny "can".  That can is the condenser.

You seem to have a volt meter so, with the ignition switch turned on and the kill switch in the "run" position, checking the voltage between the nut that holds the wires on the points and ground should show almost a full battery voltage reading.  If it doesn't, there is a bad connection somewhere between the battery and the points.  It could be a fuse, a bad wire connection or a bad ignition switch.
Jim
2011 G5 Deluxe
1999 Miata 10th Anniversary


Arizoni

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Reply #11 on: July 12, 2019, 02:42:54 am
I messed up in my last post.
With the points closed as they are most of the time you won't see any voltage between the wire nut and ground.  It is only when the points are open that you will see the full battery voltage.
The points should open when the crankshaft is rotated to raise the fiber block that is riding on the points cam or, you can pry the points open and place some sort of a non conductor between the contact surfaces.

Sorry about that.
Jim
2011 G5 Deluxe
1999 Miata 10th Anniversary


Adrian II

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Reply #12 on: July 12, 2019, 12:19:35 pm
Quote
Get a good AGM battery and a tender.

That's still good advice from tooseevee, even for smaler (non-electric start) batteries.

Quote
what is the battery actually used for on the bike?

Easier starting and parking lights!

A.
Grumpy Brit still seeking 500 AVL Bullet perfection! Will let you know if I get anywhere near...


Stogierob

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Reply #13 on: July 12, 2019, 06:42:14 pm
battery has been ordered....

already have a decent quality battery charger/conditioner...

didn't open the points... yet...

thumb test on the cylinder did prove that there is compression...

now the waiting... 

Rob
1977 RE Bullet 350 that is slowly being converted to resemble a WWII era bike...