[Arizoni]

If the sidecover is off exposing the primary drive chain I would remove the spark plug and then get a wrench that fits the bolt head on the crankshaft and try to turn it (and the crankshaft) counter clockwise.
If it didn't turn I would pull the clutch lever on the handlebars all the way in and try to rotate the bolt/crankshaft again.

Pulling the clutch lever in will release the clutch so if the problem is in the transmission the crankshaft should turn along with the primary chain and sprockets.

If trying to turn the crankshaft with the clutch lever pulled in doesn't allow the engine to turn, the problem is in the engine.
If it does allow the crankshaft to turn, the problem is in the transmission.

[mrunderhill1975a]

Yep, Arizona has it!

[blasphemous]

Hi, I can confirm that the piston moves. I did what Arizoni suggested both in gear and neutral and I am able to see the piston move, confirmed it 2 ways.
a) video
b) blocked the spark plug hole with my finger and felt for pressure.

I am also able to shift from neutral to any gear and back to neutral. So does this also not rule out transmission?

Thanks.

[ace.cafe]

And you still cannot kick it with the kicker unless the clutch is in?

It mystifies me that everything turns okay by itself, yet when you try to use the kicker, you need to hold the clutch in.

There is some piece of evidence that is not being seen here. Maybe you should take it to a dealer and let him do a hands on troubleshooting?

[mrunderhill1975a]

If trying to turn the crankshaft with the clutch lever pulled in allows the crankshaft to turn, the problem is in the transmission.

Let's recap,
1) The bike will only roll if the clutch pulled. Correct?
2) The bike will not roll in gear or even in neutral unless the clutch pulled? Correct?

[blasphemous]

And you still cannot kick it with the kicker unless the clutch is in?

It mystifies me that everything turns okay by itself, yet when you try to use the kicker, you need to hold the clutch in.

There is some piece of evidence that is not being seen here. Maybe you should take it to a dealer and let him do a hands on troubleshooting?

I cannot kick the kicker in neutral only. I can kick the kicker in gear.

[blasphemous]

If trying to turn the crankshaft with the clutch lever pulled in allows the crankshaft to turn, the problem is in the transmission.

Let's recap,
1) The bike will only roll if the clutch pulled. Correct?
2) The bike will not roll in gear or even in neutral unless the clutch pulled? Correct?

1) I can turn the crankshaft without touching the clutch lever both in gear(clockwise rotation) and in neutral(counter clockwise rotation) and the piston moves.
2) The bike will roll in neutral and gear.
3) I can change through the gears from neutral and back into neutral.
4) The piston is not stuck.
5) The rockers and tappets all work as should.

The only issue is that I cannot kick the kick start in neutral. I can kick in gear.

[tooseevee]

    This is truly bizarre. And very interesting.

[Arizoni]

1) I can turn the crankshaft without touching the clutch lever both in gear(clockwise rotation) and in neutral(counter clockwise rotation) and the piston moves.
2) The bike will roll in neutral and gear.
3) I can change through the gears from neutral and back into neutral.
4) The piston is not stuck.
5) The rockers and tappets all work as should.

The only issue is that I cannot kick the kick start in neutral. I can kick in gear.

I don't understand this "in gear clockwise" and "in neutral counter clockwise" stuff.

In other words, your comment #1 confuses me.  I guess it depends on which side of the motorcycle your on but if you are sitting on your butt on the left side with the side cover removed and the clutch is staring at you the only way the engine should be turned is counterclockwise.  If you are sitting on your butt on the right side of the motorcycle with the side cover removed, the crankshaft should look like it is being turned clockwise.

I can say I studied the pictures in the Hitchcock forum and can say, the kickstarter is driving the shaft that goes completely thru the transmission and engages the clutch.  If it can turn with the kick starter when the transmission is in gear, there is absolutely nothing I can see that would keep it from also turning when the transmission is out of gear. 

This is all very confusing.

[blasphemous]

"I don't understand this "in gear clockwise" and "in neutral counter clockwise" stuff. " 

Sorry about the confusion, What I meant is that like you said, in neutral I was able to rotate the crankshaft nut counter-clockwise. When I put it in 2'nd gear it was a little harder to rotate it counter-clockwise (may be because it was in gear) and since I was using my computer to record the piston movement, I was using one hand and so I rotated it clockwise and it was easier to do so. I was sitting facing the primary chain.

I agree, this is really puzzling, I am going to open up the gearbox outer cover and check to make sure things are in order.

[tooseevee]

"I don't understand this "in gear clockwise" and "in neutral counter clockwise" stuff. " 

Sorry about the confusion, What I meant is that like you said, in neutral I was able to rotate the crankshaft nut counter-clockwise. When I put it in 2'nd gear it was a little harder to rotate it counter-clockwise (may be because it was in gear) and since I was using my computer to record the piston movement, I was using one hand and so I rotated it clockwise and it was easier to do so. I was sitting facing the primary chain.

I agree, this is really puzzling, I am going to open up the gearbox outer cover and check to make sure things are in order.

            Yes. When it's in gear it's harder to rotate the engine because it's in gear.

             When you turned it clockwise you were turning the engine backward.

              It's totally bizarre and I'm totally confused so I'll sign off with a Good Night and Good Luck.

              Did you really say a while back that the engine rotates with the kicker with the clutch lever pulled in? 

[blasphemous]

Ok Update:

I was dinking around with the crankshaft nut and here is what I found:

Irrespective of whether in neutral or gear (I only tried this in second gear) the crank nut will turn 2 full rotations and then lockup. It will go no further and only go back in the reverse direction. If the cranknut has moved 2 full rotations in the clock wise direction, the kicker can be kicked all the way down at which point the crank nut has rotated full turns twice and the mechanism locks up. I now have to use the socket to turn the crank nut counter-clockwise and then I can kick it over again. I might be a little fuzzy about the direction and I will re-confirm that. But that is what I observe.

So basically irrespective of neutral or gear the range of motion is limited to 2 or 1/1/2 turns of the crankshaft nut. And depending on direction of the rotaion of crankshaft nut (I will confirm which direction) the kicker will kick all the way down at which point the whole things locks up and will only go the reverse direction. At this point the kicker will not work (locked up) and I have to use the socket wrench to reverse the direction of the crank-shaft nut.

Hope this gives a clue and again thanks for the trouble shooting guys.

[tooseevee]

Ok Update:

I was dinking around with the crankshaft nut and here is what I found:

Irrespective of whether in neutral or gear (I only tried this in second gear) the crank nut will turn 2 full rotations and then lockup. It will go no further and only go back in the reverse direction. If the cranknut has moved 2 full rotations in the clock wise direction, the kicker can be kicked all the way down at which point the crank nut has rotated full turns twice and the mechanism locks up. I now have to use the socket to turn the crank nut counter-clockwise and then I can kick it over again. I might be a little fuzzy about the direction and I will re-confirm that. But that is what I observe.

So basically irrespective of neutral or gear the range of motion is limited to 2 or 1/1/2 turns of the crankshaft nut. And depending on direction of the rotaion of crankshaft nut (I will confirm which direction) the kicker will kick all the way down at which point the whole things locks up and will only go the reverse direction. At this point the kicker will not work (locked up) and I have to use the socket wrench to reverse the direction of the crank-shaft nut.

Hope this gives a clue and again thanks for the trouble shooting guys.

            Sounds like something is broken or something has broken off and is jamming one of the gears that meshes with another gear that rotates when the engine is turning over and is jamming in a certain specific spot every time. Maybe you should take the timing cover off and watch over on THAT side as it rotates?

             But this is just a S.W.A.G. and not to be taken to church and voted on.

[ace.cafe]

If you hold the clutch in, does the engine still lock up after 2 turns, or can you turn it as much as you want with the clutch held in?

If it still locks up after 2 turns with the clutch held in, something is wrong with the engine.

If the engine can turn as much as you want with the clutch held in, then something is wrong in the gearbox.

You should never be trying to kick start the bike  in any gear. You only kick it in neutral.

[mrunderhill1975a]

The 2 or 1 and one half turns of the crank is a clue.
The cam gear would rotate one turn for each two turns of the crank. So, a broken tooth on the cam, or other timing side gear would be consistent with this observation.