Author Topic: What could it be?  (Read 3811 times)

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alwscout

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on: October 11, 2008, 11:31:07 pm
I have been trying to tune my bike and I'm just about there but it's still not 100%.

It started with the timing. I did it just like Nandan's instructions and evrything was fine except for the idle. It would idle fine except for a irregular but noticable "hiccup" for the lack of a better term. It almost felt like it was sucking air back up the exhaust when I held my hand to the back of it. Turning the plate back clockwise cured it and it idles fine now. Advance it and it comes back. However....

When I take it for a spin, when I squeeze in on the clutch to shift, there is a pop or backfire in the exhaust.

Could this still be the timing or could it be running too rich( My plug is a little darker than I like)?

I have had the same fuel in there for quite some time and was cheap so maybe it got some moisture in it but I don't know if that would make it do that?

I'm almost there, I can feel it!

Adam
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Foggy_Auggie

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Reply #1 on: October 12, 2008, 01:31:54 pm
I'd static time it for .08mm BTD.  Don't worry about a dark plug.
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c1skout

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Reply #2 on: October 12, 2008, 07:00:12 pm
The exhaust backfire may be caused by a leaking exhaust. Check where the pipe fits in the head for sooty black streaks that would indicate a leak at the joint.


alwscout

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Reply #3 on: October 12, 2008, 07:58:27 pm
There is a definite exhaust leak there. How does one go about remedying this?

Adam
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Foggy_Auggie

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Reply #4 on: October 13, 2008, 02:47:37 am
There is a definite exhaust leak there. How does one go about remedying this?

Adam

All Bullets have this.  The header pipe to head connection is just a press fit.  This actually wears in after a couple thousand miles and the blow by decreases with the heat expansion cycles of running.

The exhaust pipe is fitted with rigid hangers.  The header pipe to head slip fit is a vibration buffer to some extent.  A rigid flange mount to the head would create some engineering problems.

The leak normally shouldn't be enough to effect running.
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alwscout

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Reply #5 on: October 13, 2008, 01:56:47 pm
Would running too rich cause the "popping" in the exhaust?

Adam
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Foggy_Auggie

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Reply #6 on: October 13, 2008, 04:14:30 pm
Would running too rich cause the "popping" in the exhaust?

Adam

Yes it could.  If yours is stock exhaust, intake and carb - then a carb inspection and ignition precision time is something to look at.

BTW - a little on the rich side has never damaged an engine.
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dogbone

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Reply #7 on: October 13, 2008, 05:04:09 pm
I always thougth the popping on deceleration was too lean ??? :-[ Permatex makes a high heat gasket pucky that sealed my header pipe
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alwscout

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Reply #8 on: October 13, 2008, 10:13:46 pm
Alright, here's where I am:

I went out and removed the stock air cleaner box and the carb. Disassembled both of them. The air cleaner is new as I just replaced it a few months ago and haven't ridden much at all. It was clean and the box was clean as well except for a thin film of soot around the carb end of it.

The carb was indeed dirty and needed cleaning. Got it all cleaned up and put back together.

Reinstalled it all and squatted down next to it and used the electric start to get it going. It won't even idle hardly now and the popping I'm hearing on deceleration is I'm pretty sure a backfire through the air box. It will idle fine for a second or two then pooof through the air box and she dies. More throttle doesn't help....pooof and shes dies. I can feel it with my hand as well.

I rechecked the timing and checked the valve adjustment just to make sure it wasn't too tight or too loose. It all checks out. I even drained the tank and went and got fresh fuel.

I'm at a loss as to what it could be.

Adam
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DaveG297

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Reply #9 on: October 13, 2008, 10:21:29 pm
I think you may have an intake leak.    Also let it idle for a while to warm it up and then give it some throttle.  Could be air/idle needle setting.     dg      Check the intake rubber for cracks......


alwscout

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Reply #10 on: October 13, 2008, 10:49:04 pm
Also let it idle for a while to warm it up and then give it some throttle. 

I tried but it won't idle to warm up.

Quote
Check the intake rubber for cracks......

I didn't see any when I had it all apart but I may pull them again and really put the magnifying glass to them and see.

Would that cause the "poooof" through the air cleaner and then cause it to shut off?

Adam

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Foggy_Auggie

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Reply #11 on: October 14, 2008, 01:25:14 am
Now your problem sounds like it's too lean (intake side backfire) and I'd also check for air leaks.

Have you replaced the rubber intake hose?  And don't tighten the clamps too tight - it could cause a pinch point and a possible air leak.

Perform the pilot jet adjustment per the handbook and then adjust the idle speed (large thumb screw) to where it keeps running.  Then spray WD40 around the intake tube mating points and see if the idle changes.  If it does change there is an air leak.

If you still have the stock PAV system in place - make sure the clear hose from the "L" fitting coming off  the intake metal flange bolted to the head is connected to the PAV.
« Last Edit: October 14, 2008, 01:30:48 am by Foggy_Auggie »
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alwscout

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Reply #12 on: October 16, 2008, 10:30:40 pm
Well I raised the needle a notch (the bottom one) and she ran a lot better (no poooffing through the air box) but still some popping on deceleration so I guess it's lean. I'll disassemble and clean the carb again to make sure all the jets are good.

At least I'm getting there ;D

That's why I love this bike. My non-mechanical knowledge self can figure it out eventually with a little help from friends on the WWW!!!! ;)

Adam
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ace.cafe

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Reply #13 on: October 16, 2008, 10:50:49 pm
Ok, when you clean your carb, remove all the jets, the needle jet, and the idle-circuit adjusting screw, and clean them all out real good, using spray carb cleaner, and make sure it blows out thru all the little orifices real strong. This includes all the little orifices and passages in the carb body as well as the jets. Pay close attention to that tiny little orifice in the carb venturi floor, just behind the needle jet, and make sure it's clear.
Even when it looks clean to they eye, it might not be. Blow it out good with the carb cleaner. Be careful. It can blow back into your face because it's powerful spray, and you don't want to get it in your eyes.

As the weather cools down, the bike needs to run richer than it did before. It might even require a jet change, depending on how it was previously jetted.
When you put it back together, put the idle-circuit adjusting screw at 1.5 turns out from  the closed position. That's a good starting point, and then you can work it in by ear from there, if it needs to be. Turning the screw in richens, and turning it out leans. It's an air bleed screw. If the bike runs best with the screw turned pretty far in, then you probably need to go to the next richer pilot jet.

Make sure that there's no visible cracks in your rubber intake hose. They might not look like they go all the way thru, but they sometimes fool you and leak air anyway. Clamps need to be good and tight too. Also be sure you're not leaking air at the gasket between the intake manifold and the head.

The way I solved my exhaust leak at the head was to get a piece of aluminum roofing flashing(thin sheet metal) and wrapped it around the headpipe where it goes into the head. Just one wrap, so that the flashing butted-up against itself and didn't overlap. This was just the right amount to make a better fit, and stopped the exhaust leak. I then trimmed it to the size where it didn't stick out from the head, and you can't even tell it's in there. I was lucky and got the right result the first time. It may require some experimenting with different thicknesses of sheet aluminum to get it just right. But it does solve the problem without goopy gook on it or ceramic glue, or anything like that. It's a clean fix.

I was using a cold BR9ES plug over the summer, which worked good, but I switched to a hotter(normal) BR8ES for the colder winter months. That worked good.

Make sure that you aren't shedding any rust particles from the inside of the gas tank down into the carb. And periodically check the fuel bowl to see if there's any water collecting in there.

Also, I index my plug. I know some people think it's immaterial, but I think it helps.
In a hemi head like the Bullet, the open part of the plug ground strap should face into the chamber, biased slighty toward the intake valve, at about 1 o'clock position. You can make a mental note of where this aligns on the porcelain outside of the spark plug, and just screw it in so that it will be indexed correctly. Sometimes you need a fresh crush washer for the spark plug to get this right, but quite often it will line up without having to get another one. Don't over-torque the plug trying to get this right. If it doesn't line up pretty easily, then just leave it be, or get another crush washer.
This helps ensure that there is proper flame spread off the spark plug electrode for more reliabile ignition and better burn of the mixture, and some say it's good for a little extra power too.
« Last Edit: October 16, 2008, 11:20:57 pm by ace.cafe »
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Jon

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Reply #14 on: October 17, 2008, 12:09:56 am
Adam
To fix the exhaust leak look for Royce Creasey on line or send me an e-mail
on Trubritt120@hotmail and I'll send you a pdf of the article. I tried to post it
to this site but failed. I know this fix works I did it on a couple of bikes years
ago.
Jon


Jon

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Reply #15 on: October 17, 2008, 04:51:51 am
fixing the exhaust for good by the guru Creasey


Bath Bullet

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Reply #16 on: October 17, 2008, 08:09:12 am
All sounds very familiar to me.
If you have a resistor cap do not use a resistor plug, try a B8ES or BP8ES, the 'P' stands for protruding, the electrode point sticks out slightly more than a standard.
There is an argument that an resistor plug & cap puts too much strain on the ignition unit, and there is no need for suppression from both, I tend to go along with this as I noticed a difference when I changed to straight 'B's.
Also check your fuse connection, mine made bad contact between the clips and the fuse, the clips worked their way down the glass fuse only just contacting the metal.
I changed it for the 2 pronged type, no more problems.
I changed the condenser and coil, it turned out to be the coil causing all the problems, they can break down intermittently under pressure.
Even my dealer was so insistant it was carburation, he sent me new pipes, jets and even a complete carb!
This is a very abbreviated version of my particular fault finding, I hope it may save's you a lot more time than it did me!
Best regards
Terry
BITING THE BULLET:  2001 500 CLASSIC living in Sunny Bat, Somerset
Also 2008 TRIUMPH BONNEVILLE 865 EFI


LotusSevenMan

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Reply #17 on: October 22, 2008, 07:45:53 am
While doing an electronic ignition mod I found that the coil was wired incorrectly from the factory with the pos and neg leads on the wrong terminals. Had always been like that. It works but not as it should and can lead (no pun intended) to problems!!
If it ain't broke-------------------------- fix it 'till it is!

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alwscout

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Reply #18 on: October 23, 2008, 12:02:06 am
I took the carb off again and did a detailed cleaning of everything. She idles fine now. Went back and reset the air mixture and throttle screws and rechecked the timing and tappets and she runs great.

Thanks for the help.

Adam
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DaveG297

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Reply #19 on: December 04, 2008, 03:20:26 am
There is a good case for cleaning or doing it right the first time.    Can't count the number of times this would apply to me.    I sure love kickstarting my bike.  Again, if I had learned and did it right way , I'd not have had to fight it this long.  Was gonna put bike away for winter and it was 30'f and the bike started the second kick............so I guess I got some more learning to do.....gonna be a long winter here in Mich.........dg