[Bilgemaster]

At last a little sunshine with the mercury just cresting 50. First fine day in far too many presenting a rare late February gift of a nice little snort. It had been a while since she'd run, so just for the hell of it I checked the battery charge state, and it was at 12.6 volts. A tad lower than the usual 12.7 or 12.8 cold, but certainly acceptable. Then, off I plunged into those twisty hinterlands. After about two hours or so of flinging my 2005 Bullet 500ES "Military" around on her fresh Dunlops, I settled in on the porch of the old Brentsville General Store for a Barbecue Sandwich and a brew. The guys who now run it are Indian, so they're always pretty happy to see me roll up on the Enfield. About an hour later the starter weirdness occurred.

With the bike now fairly cooled, I went to kick her back to life. I very rarely use the electric starter. I felt some real resistance in the kickstart, while hearing what I'm pretty sure was the starter motor kind of "whining" as I kicked her through--like I was turning the starter motor with the kickstart. I gingerly kicked it through a few times ignition off with this whiney starter motor resistance, and eventually it freed up and kicked through like normal. I then kickstarted as always, and made my way home just fine. When I got home I tried the kickstart again with ignition off with the engine warm, and then again a few hours ago with it quite cold, and both times it kicked through seemingly just fine.

I haven't tried the electric start yet. Something tells me it might be better to just leave that button be until I've had a good look at the innards. I've had a gander at Snidal's manual and also the factory Parts Catalog, but am still pretty hazy on what might have caused the weirdness this afternoon. My working hunch is that some swarf or other crudlets kept something engaged that oughtn't to have been. So, first step I envisage is to yank off the primary cover, clean it out, see how it's looking, and give it some fresh Type F ATF. Next, I'll pull off the starter assembly, and see how that's looking, and if anything seems "sticky" or askew.

If possible, I'd prefer to keep that starter, even though I hardly use it now. I'm not getting any younger, and although I'm still pretty spry, I expect that "iron leg" may come in handy some day down the road. The Bullet's a "keeper" and my likely getaway vehicle when the kids finally come with the van to take me to "The Home." Hence all tips are most welcome as I wade through the 600 or so starter-related postings in the Forum archive's Iron Cylinder section seeking enlightenment.

The Brentsville Superette: Your One-Stop Shop for Starter Weirdness

 

[ace.cafe]

Starter sprag.
If it isn't totally bad yet, it is on its way out. If the engine has kicked back during starting, or rolled back when shutting off, either or both are the typical causes.

It is one of the most common iron barrel failures. You can fix it, but it will break again. The fix is fairly expensive, and some members did it as many as 5 times before finally giving up on it.

There are large numbers of posts about this in the archives under a search term "sprag".

The only real solution is to remove it.

[Bilgemaster]

Yeah...that's what I kinda already figured the gremlin might be: the attractively-named "sprag". Sounds appropriately like that gal in high school who broke your heart with the starting lineup of the football team behind the bleachers. Guess I'll yank her out and maybe source a replacement while they're still available for "later" when really needed...hopefully MUCH  later. I guess I was just expecting something a little more catastrophic when she went--not a leisurely ride home.

Anyone who yanked out their own still-working starter gear as a "prophylactic measure" (always a good idea with a "sprag") should feel free to PM me with offers. I've got just the dark corner of the garage for it.

How sprags might appear in your garage

[Seipgam]

We call them Slags over here.

[heloego]

Nice, wholesome-looking Slags. 

[Adrian II]

Try these for size. Or rather, don't!

https://wikivisually.com/wiki/The_Fat_Slags

[Bilgemaster]

No, gentlemen. Not "slag"--"SPRAG." Though I applaud your evident nobility of character in choosing not to use the term. It seems even the well-spoken folks at Royal Enfield in Chennai could not bring themselves to properly spell out, let alone utter, that most damning and juicy of invectives, as illustrated in their factory Spare Parts Catalog...or rather, "Catagol"...wherein it is referred to as a "Sparg."

[tooseevee]

No, gentlemen. Not "slag"--"SPRAG." Though I applaud your evident nobility of character in choosing not to use the term. It seems even the well-spoken folks at Royal Enfield in Chennai could not bring themselves to properly spell out, let alone utter, that most damning and juicy of invectives, as illustrated in their factory Spare Parts Catalog...or rather, "Catagol"...wherein it is referred to as a "Sparg."

         They also misspell "BREAKS" in a few places, but I guess that's ubiquitous now even on these forums.

[ace.cafe]

You can remove it by removing the primary chaincase, unscrewing the cover plate on the back of the inner chaincase half, and withdrawing the sprag gear cluster from it. Then just put it back together without the sprag gear cluster. Keep the starter motor where it normally is so that it covers the hole and looks normal.
That is the cheapest and easiest way out.
Just use the kicker after that.

[Narada]

Being a UCE guy, I don't know much about these IB's, but I thought there was a "new and improved" sprag that solved that problem...? 

[Adrian II]

There is this (ouch - $$$):

http://accessories.hitchcocksmotorcycles.com/accessory-shop/ignition/34789

There was something on the Hitchcocks' forum about a Borg Warner (someone else can do the Star Trek reference) sprag clutch which is a direct replacement.

A.

[Bilgemaster]

         They also misspell "BREAKS" in a few places, but I guess that's ubiquitous now even on these forums.

Indeed! "Them's the breaks"...

Eye Halve a Spelling Chequer

Eye halve a spelling chequer
It came with my pea sea
It plainly marques four my revue
Miss Steaks eye can knot sea.
Eye strike a quay and type a whirred
And weight four it two say
Weather eye am wrong oar write
It shows me strait a weigh.
As soon as a mist ache is maid
It nose bee fore two long
And eye can put the error rite
Its rare lea ever wrong.
Eye have run this poem threw it
I am shore your pleased two no
Its letter perfect in it's weigh
My chequer tolled me sew.

[Bilgemaster]

You can remove it by removing the primary chaincase, unscrewing the cover plate on the back of the inner chaincase half, and withdrawing the sprag gear cluster from it. Then just put it back together without the sprag gear cluster. Keep the starter motor where it normally is so that it covers the hole and looks normal.
That is the cheapest and easiest way out.
Just use the kicker after that.

Yeah, that's just where I think I'm gonna take my poor stricken beast for the time being. I haven't dived into it yet, but it seems a double-helping of stupid that something so prone to failure as to almost rate as a "consumable" (and long known by RE to be so) as that sprag apparently requires the complete dismantling of the whole primary chain case and all its contents just to remove or service it. You'd think they'd have had the sense under the circumstances to somehow make it more easily serviceable as a bolt-on unit directly accessible from the starter motor side.

There is this (ouch - $$$):

http://accessories.hitchcocksmotorcycles.com/accessory-shop/ignition/34789

There was something on the Hitchcocks' forum about a Borg Warner (someone else can do the Star Trek reference) sprag clutch which is a direct replacement.

A.

Thanks for the tips! No way am I shoveling out over 500 quid for something likely to crap out again by design. That's more than half what I paid for it to begin with, and I can live without a starter for now. In a pinch, with 500 quid in hand I could just hand random guys passing by fivers to push me around to jump-start the thing for a good long while...maybe save a bit on fuel while I'm at it.

In the meantime, that BorgWarner angle you mention is interesting in its own right. I mean, I'd like  to have a functional starter assembly, if only in a box for the "next guy." I assume you may have recalled a posting like this one on the Hitchcocks Forum. The BorgWarner Part No. BW-SP-2 is mentioned. Also mentioned is the German-made Stieber Clutch Part No. DC-4127-N [3C]. Below is a picture of the BorgWarner one followed by its specs, as described here. Look right for a 2005 Bullet 500ES? The thread there commences describing the sprag woes of a 2005 Electra X, so I'm just guessing it might work for other models.

A5HF1, A6LF3, A6MF2, TF-80SC, TR-80SD (0C8)
Sprag
Part No. BW-SP-2
TF-80SC, AF40-6

Sonnax 24-Element, double cage design sprag BW-SP-2 is a Borg Warner direct replacement for Aisin AW TF-80SC, AF40-6 converters used in Saab, Opel, Fiat and many other vehicles.

Specs:

    Sprag Element Count: 24
    Width: 0.336"
    Race Outer Dia.: 2.747"
    Race Inner Dia.: 2.087"

Just for a gag, I contacted BorgWarner through their website as follows to perhaps clarify matters--maybe even cadge a sample freebie slag...I mean skank...No, SPRAG. That's right, "sprag":


Dear Sir or Madam:

I am led to understand from its published measurements (Outer Dia: 2.747", Inner Dia: 2.087", Width: 0.336") that your Sprag (Part No. BW-SP-2), a direct replacement part for those found in torque converters used in Saab, Opel, Fiat and many other vehicles, may also serve as a direct replacement for the electric starter clutch sprag found in some Indian-made Royal Enfield "Bullet" motorcycles manufactured before 2008. I am wondering if you might be able to confirm this application for that part.

If your records cannot confirm this additional use, I would be happy to compare a sample of your part BW-SP-2 with the OEM sprag currently in place in my own vehicle's starter assembly. As it happens, the OEM sprag found in this starter assembly of these rather primitively-designed 350cc and 500cc single-cylinder motorcycles, manufactured virtually unchanged from 1948 until 2008 based on a British model, is somewhat prone to failure due to the stresses of occasional engine kickbacks and the sometimes less than stellar metallurgy of the OEM parts, certainly when compared with those of BorgWarner.

One imagines that if one were able to confirm the use of your part BW-SP-2 in this new context, it might well become one of your more popular aftermarket items, seeing as how despite its relative rarity in the USA, the Royal Enfield "Bullet" is actually the longest-produced model of vehicle ever produced in history, with hundreds of thousands of examples on the roads of the world--a good number of them, like mine, which might benefit from a fresh BorgWarner sprag of known quality.

With Regards,
William Connelly

Obligatory "Borg Sprag" Measurements Image

[Adrian II]

No way am I shoveling out over 500 quid for something likely to crap out again by design.

A replacement sprag clutch is cheap by comparison, the actual kit seems to be a complete starter drive train upgrade LESS the sprag itself. When my Electra-X sprag went south it took some of the drive gear teeth with it.

The other thing I noticed about my pre-crunch e/s was that it needed a really healthy battery. At least your points ignition iron barrel Bullet won't have the issues with the e/s causing a critical voltage drop sending the TCI full advance - a major contributing factor to a good many of the Electra-X sprag clutch failures...

A.

[Bilgemaster]

Yes, well a previous owner had an electronic ignition mounted on my 2005, type unknown. I had been pretty happy about this. Now I'm not so sure. While I have had the odd kickback or three in the 5,000 or so miles I've put on her, the battery, which I often check before riding after more than a few days' rest and often gets pampered with a little 1 1/2 Volt solar battery tender, typically weighs in at 12.7 or 12.8 Volts cold.

I always start lights off (having yanked out that mandated dogbone connector over here that kept them "always on", making the light switch a "nuttin' button") to reduce draw, stop the engine with simultaneous use of the decompressor and kill switch (as "Ace" had suggested), run Type F ATF in the primary with a bit extra for the sprag, and rarely ever even use the starter. In short, that sprag has been so pampered on my watch that if it went tits up on mine, then it's safe to say it was designed to go tits up.