Author Topic: The Haunting Headlight Problem...  (Read 15082 times)

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Indiana Josh

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on: October 07, 2008, 06:21:42 pm
As most of you probably already know, I was having some headlight problems on my brand new '08 Military. Namely, the bugger just wouldn't work. Also, I had blown two fuses over the course of a week just taking the bike out for short rides.

Called the dealer up, and he sent a guy out to me (over 4 hours away) with a brand-new Bullet to take parts from. The mechanic came out, ran diagnostics on everything and all the wires checked out alright, everything looked grounded, and everything looked like it was getting power okay. He swapped out my headlight for a new one, and everything worked perfectly. Headlight came on, high-beam and low-beam both worked, wasn't blowing any fuses.

This was all about a week and a half ago. In the meantime, I had been taking my bike out on short 10or 15 mile runs every couple days or so to break it in. The headlight's been fine. One night, I drove the bike out to work about 20 miles away at night, and the headlight was again fine.

Just two days ago, I went to take the bike out for a nighttime spin, and POOF! The headlight problem resurrected itself to haunt me yet again.  This time, the high-beam worked fine, but the low-beam wasn't working at ALL. Also, there appears to be, yet again, some black charring/smoke at the very top of the inside of the headlight. 

What in the world?? Everything had checked out just fine, both beams worked perfectly for about a week -- now only the high-beam is working. The low-beam pooped out and now there's some smoke at the top of the lens.  I've been staying cool and calm while I've been experiencing all of the 'kinks' -- but at this point, it's starting to get a bit frustrating.
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PhilJ

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Reply #1 on: October 07, 2008, 06:50:56 pm
I think the smoke area is from the bulb blowing.
The other sounds like some abnormal voltages, intermittent or otherwise.


Indiana Josh

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Reply #2 on: October 07, 2008, 07:09:19 pm
Should I just look at getting a heavy-duty headlight -- would that work out for me? Or should I be getting the regulator looked at?
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Chasfield

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Reply #3 on: October 08, 2008, 05:16:56 pm
I would have that reg checked to make sure that the on-load voltage to the bulb is not excessive.

I wonder if handling the old bulb contaminated the glass envelope with finger grease and made a hot spot. This can make halogen ones blow.
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Indiana Josh

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Reply #4 on: October 08, 2008, 08:33:42 pm
I apologize in advance if this comes off as a completely ignorant question -- but regarding these things, I'm quite admittedly ignorant:

Is there a way to fix a burnt out filament for the low-beam light in the headlight?

When I spoke with one of the Enfield mechanics over the phone, I thought I remember him suggesting changing the low-beam "bulb" that's burnt out, as the high-beam still works fine.

When I take the headlight off -- isn't THAT the bulb?  All I see inside of it are what look like two filaments: one for the high-beam, and one for the low-beam. The low-beam filament is burnt out, and there is some black smoke near the top of the headlight.

My question is: do I have to replace that entire $100 headlight, or can I just fix that burnt-out low-beam filament? 
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1Blackwolf1

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Reply #5 on: October 08, 2008, 11:44:34 pm
  Your headlight is a sealed beam unit so you have to replace the headlamp, unless someone somewhere changed it to a European type unit, but then you would be changing the bulb.  Check out your owners manual it's very clear on how to change out the headlamp.  The part number for a standardreplacement is Z90442 available from CMW for $14.95.  Will.
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Indiana Josh

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Reply #6 on: October 09, 2008, 05:09:22 am
I don't guess CMW has the part on their website, do they? The only thing I see on the Enfield store is the $100 headlight. I've tried checking Autozones and other stores, and nobody seems to carry a similar bulb. Still frustrated I keep blowing these things out...it HAS to be a reg problem...
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Leonard

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Reply #7 on: October 09, 2008, 05:31:24 am
The first thing we need to clear up is what you have, is it a bulb or a 5 " sealed beam.  It should be a 5" sealed beam unless a change has been made.
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Indiana Josh

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Reply #8 on: October 09, 2008, 05:38:53 am
A sealed beam -- whatever came in stock is what I have (the burnt-out stock was replaced with the stock from another Enfield, which is now burnt-out as well).

It's a 12.8V Wagner 4467 50/35 H5 ---- if that helps.
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Indiana Josh

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Reply #9 on: October 09, 2008, 05:47:33 am
Couple additional things I just noticed:

First, where are you getting the part number, 1Blackwolf1? I don't see that part number anywhere on the website, and it's nowhere in my manual at all. Further, the section on "changing the headlamp" is pretty much useless. On page 111 all it really says is "change the light."

Second, under the "Technical Specifications" section of my manual, it says the head lamp is (or should be) a 12V 60/55.

So if my headlamp is a 12.8V 50/35, would that be much different, and would that be a (the) problem? If so, why the hell was it stock?

*confused*
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clamp

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Reply #10 on: October 09, 2008, 10:11:58 am
You have a charge problem, the first indication of a high charge is blown bulbs.

       You need to check charge voltage across the batt at some decent revs say 3000.

      It will continue to blow bulbs and will be overcharging your battery. Is it needing regular top ups?
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1Blackwolf1

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Reply #11 on: October 09, 2008, 12:30:55 pm
Couple additional things I just noticed:

First, where are you getting the part number, 1Blackwolf1? I don't see that part number anywhere on the website, and it's nowhere in my manual at all. Further, the section on "changing the headlamp" is pretty much useless. On page 111 all it really says is "change the light."

Second, under the "Technical Specifications" section of my manual, it says the head lamp is (or should be) a 12V 60/55.

So if my headlamp is a 12.8V 50/35, would that be much different, and would that be a (the) problem? If so, why the hell was it stock?

*confused*

I got that number out of the 2008 Parts & Accessories catalog from CMW, if you haven't got one yet order it quick.  As you've noticed you can't get much for an RE at a part store except maybe a spark plug.  When you go to the parts side of this website type the number in as search query see what comes up.  And according to the book it should be a 50/35W bulb used. 

As far as changing the light look at the trim ring exactly at the bottom, remove the phillips screw that holds the ring to the nacelle,  You can't remove the wrong one it's the only one through the rim.  Using a small flat tip screwdriver you are going to pop the ring off the nacelle.  Be careful some pop off easily, some do not.  There are now three screws you loosen in the holder ring, once loosened the ring rotates and voila, you have the lamp out of the nacelle.  I believe you have the reassembly under control. 

I won't go into explaining why RE only has a 50/35W lamp (Ohms law and all), suffice to say the stock charging system isn't heavy enough to take the extra load of a higher watt bulb.  I am curious to the short bulb life, sounds like you're getting a power surge/spike.  Or you have a real Gremlin there, I agree with Clamp do a charging voltage check with a multimeter and see what you get.  If that is above the 12.8 volts that the headlight is suppose to operate at that would do it, smoke the headlight everytime.  Hope this helps, Will.




« Last Edit: October 09, 2008, 12:57:19 pm by 1Blackwolf1 »
Will Morrison
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1Blackwolf1

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Reply #12 on: October 09, 2008, 12:37:38 pm
Just checked the store, I did a search for the headlight bulb'. so you'll have to call the store to order it.  Will.
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clamp

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Reply #13 on: October 09, 2008, 01:43:32 pm
You got to order a headlamp bulb in America??

    But--don't you have accessory shops?
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bob bezin

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Reply #14 on: October 09, 2008, 03:28:22 pm
with cmw a phonecall away, and next day ups of fedex delivery i wouldn't consider driving 49 miles to an ascessory shop. (unless it was a beautyfull sunny day)
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1Blackwolf1

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Reply #15 on: October 09, 2008, 06:51:27 pm
You got to order a headlamp bulb in America??

    But--don't you have accessory shops?

  No not realy Clamp, the only shops that have any parts are the original dealers, I have a Honda and a Yamaha dealer here but they really don't carry anything of use as far as standard parts are concerned.  My closest dealer is 75 miles away.  Will.
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Leonard

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Reply #16 on: October 09, 2008, 07:57:26 pm
I haven't checked but I would think any Walmart, Autozone, etc would carry that type of sealed beam.
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Indiana Josh

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Reply #17 on: October 09, 2008, 08:23:29 pm
Autozone was a no-go --- they couldn't even order it. None of the O'Reillys around where I live had any in stock, but could order them at a price of $15. Haven't checked Wal-Mart, and for some reason, the thought never crossed my mind. I'll probably check with them and/or some of the motorcycle shops when I get off of work. 

Is a heavy-duty headlight for this bike out of the question?
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1Blackwolf1

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Reply #18 on: October 09, 2008, 08:37:31 pm
  If you could find something like a long life Sylvania I doubt it would hurt anything.  I know there are severe duty lamps made for off road vehicles that supposedly take vibration and shock much better than stock, just don't know where you would get those here.  Since you do have the part number off the headlamp you may be able to search to internet for one.  Will.
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Leonard

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Reply #19 on: October 09, 2008, 10:00:19 pm
Maybe some of you guys that are more up on the electrical system than me can pitch in here, but I always thought the head light was powered direct from the altenator and the regulator wasn't in the circuit.
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PhilJ

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Reply #20 on: October 10, 2008, 01:52:32 pm
I've heard that, at least, the newer ones are powered off the alternator. However, that would have to be regulated as the alternator output is correlated to RPM. Output being from 30 to 50 volts. I'm not exactly sure on the exact voltage. but I don't think lights have that range of operation. Seems like there would be a regulator for the headlight since it's supposed to be powered off the alt.


Chasfield

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Reply #21 on: October 10, 2008, 05:11:58 pm
On my 2001 bike there is definitely a separate AC regulator for the headlamp circuit and its dedicated alternator winding.
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clamp

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Reply #22 on: October 10, 2008, 05:41:35 pm
If that is the case it would seem prudent to connect the headlamp to the battery circuit and let the regulator cope with it that way.

   What a silly way of doing it?
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Chasfield

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Reply #23 on: October 10, 2008, 06:18:55 pm
Trouble is the DC system is probably a bit weak to supply all those extra watts for the headlamp.
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clamp

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Reply #24 on: October 11, 2008, 02:54:37 am
The power for the head light still comes from the same stator coils.
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Chasfield

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Reply #25 on: October 11, 2008, 07:58:00 am
Even on machines with 4 alternator output wires? I have a pair for the DC circuit , and a separate pair for the AC circuit.
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Indiana Josh

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Reply #26 on: October 17, 2008, 05:55:03 am
Well, there's good and bad news. And once again I need some help.

First, let me say thank you, thank you, thank you to Leonard who was gracious enough to send me two of his unused headlamps. I couldn't find one of these suckers ANYWHERE -- 3 motorcycle shops, every Autozone and O'Reillys I could find -- nothing. I plugged in Leonard's headlamp and everything was working fine, high-beam and low-beam. I rode it a couple nights and had no problems. Leonard, and everyone on this forum who continues to offer their assistance and encouragement, only solidify the feeling that I made the right choice in buying into the Enfield community.

Now for the bad news: I rode my bike to work tonight, and after my shift, my bike just flat out wouldn't start. I immediately suspected that one (or both) fuses had blown. I was right. I checked the fuse under my seat and it was blown in two. This marks the THIRD fuse that has blown on me since I bought my bike.

I bought my bike brand-new a little over a month ago. I have just under 300 miles on it, and have been very meticulous about breaking it in properly, including the advice on "throttle control" offered by Leonard and others. In the past month (and 250 or so miles) my bike has blown two headlamps and three fuses. At this point, I'm utterly convinced it's an electrical problem and seriously need my dealer to take a look at it and get it fixed.

Also, I noticed that, for the first time ever, my bike is now sputtering and coughing. It only happens when I'm in a higher gear (4th or 5th), but not while I'm in lower gears. When in the higher gears on the way home tonight, it would cough and sputter and act like it was gonna stall on me.  Two possibly important points to consider:

1) halfway out on the 15 mile drive to work, I had to switch over to "Reserve" not realizing I was as low on gas as I was (the joys and woes of wonderful gas mileage, I presume). I then had to drive it another 8 miles on the way back after work to get more gas.  So maybe it was just a matter of the gas cycling through the system, I don't know -- but it continued to sputter and cough the remaining 7 miles home with a full tank.

2) It was cold as hell tonight. Like, really cold -- with condensation EVERYWHERE. So maybe it was the cold causing it to cough and sputter?

I don't know --- does anybody have any other idea why my bike might be popping and coughing and sputtering? It's a new bike, 300 miles, and I've been trying to be as careful and precise with the break-in as possible.

Thanks for all the support!
The Thousand and One Tales of Indiana Josh

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Joe28

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Reply #27 on: October 17, 2008, 12:52:14 pm
I dunno if this will help, but at this point I'll toss it in.
I don't believe it's relevant to your problem, but it may send you down the correct path.
 I just pick up my Military and last night I was all set to take it out to, "run it in".
When I turned the handle bar all the way to the right the bike died! No power.
A few curses and a few checks reviled the main fuse popped??????/ ??
Put a new one in and refire it up, turn the bars and... same thing.
This went on for 4 fuses, trying to narrow down what in the world? Yank a wire here, push a wire bunch there.
I took the head light assy out and began looking at all the wires, connectors.
Where the turn signal plug in, the male part was a 1/8" longer than the plastic shield, and when I would turn the bars, somewhere it would rub against metal and POP!
I'd pull your head light assy out and lookie at the connectors. Tape up ANY that look like they are exposed.
After that, I'd look at the over all voltage.
I'd take a multi meter and wire it to the battery and tape it to the bars and look at the voltage when it's running.
In the real world voltage would be less than 14.5,but anymore than 12.5 volts would be cool . Check when you rev it up, that's when the max would be max!
You would think if the regulator was bad, you'd see it in the amp gauge on the dash? It'd go WAY over when you rev-ed it up??
Do your metal boxes rattle?? Mine do. ::)
Good luck and keep us posted.
Joe
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Chasfield

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Reply #28 on: October 17, 2008, 05:27:47 pm
I am with Joe 28 here. An intermittent short circuit is a strong suspect. If no hard contact was made as wiring was being disturbed the sparking and arcing might not blow the fuse immediately but it could rob the ignition circuit of power and give you some misfires.

My rear turn signal wiring was of quite a poor standard. Careless routing had allowed a ground wire to chafe through after only 3000 km. Luckily, this in itself was not going to leave me stranded. So check that rear light assembly for wiring gremlins. My headlamp is also a pretty busy confined space, with  many bullet and spade connectors, most of which I have added insulation and physical support to.

Chas
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Indiana Josh

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Reply #29 on: October 17, 2008, 06:27:00 pm
Thanks for the tip guys. When I get home I'm going to give the wiring a thorough inspection a with a roll of electrical tape in hand and ready. This seems to be a (fairly) common problem with Bullets. I'm really hoping this is all it is, and not a regulator or other electrical problem that will require the dealer to drive over 4 hours out to my place.

But what about the coughing and popping that the bike has been doing in higher gears recently? Any ideas on that?
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Leonard

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Reply #30 on: October 17, 2008, 07:19:07 pm
But what about the coughing and popping that the bike has been doing in higher gears recently? Any ideas on that?

I'm inclined to think a piece of crud from the low tank got into the carb.  If it doesn't clear up after a few miles I'd be taking the carb apart for cleaning.  Do you have a gas filter between the petcock and the carb?
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Indiana Josh

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Reply #31 on: October 18, 2008, 04:15:17 pm
Alright, well, the coughing and popping sounds have completely disappeared and the bike was running as smoothly as ever yesterday, purring and roaring at all the right times.

I gave all the wires on my bike a thorough looking-over, and I couldn't find ANY issues. Many people have suggested looking through all the wired behind my headlight casing, complaining of issues when they turn their handlebars too far one way or the other.

First, I don't know about you guys, but my handlebars don't turn very far at ALL until they're stopped by the frame of the bike. This bike has, I think, the worst turning radius of any bike I've ever been on. But no biggie. What I'm saying is that there are NO wires that are at risk of being pulled too tight against the frame. All the wires look fine.

I also couldn't find any "exposed" heads or anything that looked like it could cause a short if it happened to hit the metal frame. Everything I saw looked like it was perfectly enclosed in a plastic and/or rubber housing to protect it. I couldn't find anything exposed or short anywhere on the bike, either up near the headlamp or down by the rear turn signals.

So, if it's looking like it's not a wire hitting the frame that's causing all of my blown fuses/headlamps, are we thinking that it's most likely the regulator being off at this point?

The Thousand and One Tales of Indiana Josh

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1Blackwolf1

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Reply #32 on: October 19, 2008, 01:40:16 am
If it were the regulator you would probably also smell the battery overcharging, it would probably go from one extreme to the other.  One minute overcharging by gauge next not charging at all.  (Older brit bikes were somewhat easier but they ran a generator coil but we won't even start that issue).

Do you have access to a mutimeter?  If not do yourself a big favor and buy a digital one for about $20.  Check for voltage across the battery post prestart, idling, and at about 1500-2000 rpms.  If its the regulator it will become more erratic as the wiring warms up, either over/undercharge.

I'm beginning to suspect the headlight lo/high beam selector switch maybe the culprit.  The wires inside the switch box are close to the handlebar and maybe close enough to touch the handlebar.  If you have or can borrow a meter (don't trust a test light) I would touch the handlebar with the red lead and ground the other to bolt on the frame like the gas tank mount bolt.  It should be close enough to make it easy to do without assistance.

If you get a positive reading you probably have an unintentional ground.  And in its current condition I would say that sounds very plausible..hit a hard bump and the wire touches ground and pop goes the headlight/fuse.  And with the vibration these have naturally it could be arcing meaning it really didn't touch but put intermittent full voltage too it and then would drop off to nothing.  This would cause the headlamp to appear to be flashing, of course you can't see that.  And this would slowly weaken the headlight filaments till they die.

You could certainly get the mechanic back from the dealer you bought it from, but sounds like he may just do the same thing again.

Let me pull my schematic out when I get home tomorrow from work and I'll take a look at the wiring circuit. Will.

Will Morrison
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Joe28

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Reply #33 on: October 20, 2008, 01:06:21 pm
I think of ALL the problems, electrical are the worst possible ones.
Continuing with the short circuit, (I believe it's that, SOMEWHERE).
Pull your seat and start there, under the tank, then the handle bars switches.
I was thinking as I was out yesterday breaking in my Military about your hassles.
If, it was the regulator, wouldn't it blow a smaller bulb like a turn signal, speedo bulb before a heavier duty seal beam head light??
On my '04 Bullet, I had WEIRD electrical problems. I cure all of them by running a good ground wire from the battery to the engine, engine to frame and split it to the front and back of the bike. I tied ALL the lights, (and horn) into it and that seemed to cure it.
Maybe instead of power hitting ground, a intermittent ground causing a surge at the ????.
I concur with the carb junk problem.
Road speed isn't the issue, it's engine RPM, or better yet, throttle position, (which circuit are in in, pilot jet, needle, or main jet).
One of the first things I do when I get a bike is install a in line gas filter. Keeps "stuff out of the jets.
I also could have been a bit of water in the bowl. Add a tad bit of gas line anti freeze, and some carb cleaner into your tank.
The bike could also be running lean, then when it got ccccooooolllldddd, it needed more fuel to be happy and because it was lean to begin with, the problem only magifies.
Pull your plug and see if it's a nice golden brown.
I pulled mine yesterday, (it was @30 degrees here in Pa. in the AM), the plug was too clean, (granted it only has 65 miles), so I know it's lean to start with.
Again, don't get discouraged, take it one small step at a time, take nothing for granted.

This, like all advice given here, should be take with a grain of salt. Although many of us have had the similar problems, how each one of attack the problem, like anything is, a personal thing.- That's my disclaimer! ;)

Good luck and keep us posted.
Joe
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Reply #34 on: October 26, 2008, 03:57:24 pm
On my 2008 Electra the low beam burned out within the first week.  Being 230 miles from the dealer I searched the local auto parts until I found one that worked.  Advance Auto Parts had a Sylvania two filament sealed beam #H5006.  It's not perfect, the nubs are in the wrong place to properly locate it in the notch in the mounting ring but I lined up "top" as close as I could with the top center of the ring.  5000 miles and 10 months later and it' still going.
Good luck,  Jim
2008 Electra, smiling jim