Author Topic: Understanding the Amal carb  (Read 3092 times)

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ivantheterrible

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on: January 01, 2019, 06:45:16 pm
32mm Amal carb on my Hitchcock 612 bullet. Finally got the bike running, and idling. Took it for a spin and it ran rough, bucking a little. Also, a bit of gas dripping out of the air filter (it's one of those aftermarket wire mesh pods) and a lot of smoke coming from the carb,

Any insight from Y'all running the Amal would be appreciated.
2007 sportster 883, yamaha vino 125, 2005 Nfield sixty 5 military with Hitchcock 612 kit


ace.cafe

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Reply #1 on: January 01, 2019, 10:13:52 pm
I don't do Amals, but it sounds like a float problem to me.
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Adrian II

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Reply #2 on: January 02, 2019, 10:58:09 am
The current producers of Amal carbs now offer ethanol-resistant floats.

A.
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ivantheterrible

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Reply #3 on: January 02, 2019, 01:04:40 pm
I think mine has the ethanol resistant type. Mines black (which I think is ethanol free) and the old ones were white. This 'knowledge' is from a youtube video, so I'll be happy to be corrected by someone who has direct experience, if I'm wrong.

I used the tickler to start the bike, so I wonder if the gas dribbling out of the air filter was from that. Didn't notice it after my ride, but I was distracted by all the smoke coming out of the air filter
2007 sportster 883, yamaha vino 125, 2005 Nfield sixty 5 military with Hitchcock 612 kit


ace.cafe

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Reply #4 on: January 02, 2019, 03:56:00 pm
Gas never comes out the air filter unless the float level is too high, or the float isn't working.

Regading the "smoke" coming out the air filter, it may also be from excess fuel vapors emitting from the carb throat.

Another possibility for smoke might be if the crankcase breather hose is attached into the air filter housing. If so, remove it.

The symptoms you described sound most like raw fuel dumping into the carb throat, causing overly rich condition and affecting the running mixture, and also running out the front of the carb into the air filter, with some of the excess fuel vaporizing as smoke out the air filter.

If you have additional information about the symptoms that might be useful to further pinpoint the issue, please advise.
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ivantheterrible

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Reply #5 on: January 02, 2019, 04:09:02 pm
the only thing that MIGHT be useful (and maybe you've already considered this Ace) is the propose of the 'tickler', as I understand it, is to hold the float down, which allows a flooding condition for the cold start. I thought you're supposed to hold it down until some gas trickled out, but I thought the trickling would happen at the knob, so I was focused on that and not the gas pouring out of the air filter. Might seem obvious what the problem is, but I thought the gas drip continued long after it should have.

Yes, the 'smoke' did seem more like vapors more than smoke from a fire.
2007 sportster 883, yamaha vino 125, 2005 Nfield sixty 5 military with Hitchcock 612 kit


Tarnand

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Reply #6 on: January 03, 2019, 02:11:22 am
I think mine has the ethanol resistant type. Mines black (which I think is ethanol free) and the old ones were white. This 'knowledge' is from a youtube video, so I'll be happy to be corrected by someone who has direct experience, if I'm wrong.

Mine is 389 Monoblock and the float is also black.  In Illinois they are adding up to 10% of ethanol to the gas.  If it were not ethanol resistant I would assume there would be some sings on the float surface.  There are none and I inspected it like a month ago when I was replacing the float gasket.
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Bilgemaster

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Reply #7 on: January 03, 2019, 02:43:40 am
It could just be that the float needle isn't seating properly. The really old Amal Concentrics had little solid white plastic needles that created such problems. They were really just too light to do the job of sealing properly. Most were replaced by owners with improved and heavier brass viton-tipped needles. What the modern Concentrics have I cannot say. None of mine were made since Nixon was President. Suggest you pull off the float bowl and really clean that float needle area out with carb cleaner and maybe compressed air, and then with the bowl still off, reassemble the float and needle and check for absolutely smooth operation and full seating of the needle. If you have a tickler extension installed, make sure it isn't pressing onto the float when at rest. Some extension kits need to have the part down within the bowl kind of "flared" and pressed back flush against the upper housing. Make sure that it's not too far down and holding down the float. Also make sure it operates freely.

If it is a more complicated float/needle issue, and simple cleaning and reassembly doesn't sort it out, this might really help. And more generally speaking, unless you're rehabbing some 1913 Snordley or some such vintage exotica, chances are whatever type of Amal you're using, you'll find something useful about it here.

By the way, when Ace writes,"Another possibility for smoke might be if the crankcase breather hose is attached into the air filter housing. If so, remove it,"  this pertains to an entirely different kettle of foul-smelling fish that afflicted my own '05 "Military" when I first got it, known as the Crankcase Breather Oil Sploodges. I doubt it is the culprit in your case in this particular instance, but it is a common enough woe amongst the youngest of the "Iron Belly" generation made after about 2004, that if you still spot one of these silly-ass "crankcase breather catch cans" down under your saddle and behind the battery, you would do well to begin taking measures to yank it out and punt that thing into the hedges in favor of something called a "KrankVent" or similar, as described here. However, seeing as your 2005 is already sporting so much high end gear, and running with a non-standard air filter and all, I would doubt they'd have allowed such a useless gurken with known issues as that breather catch can system to just remain in place like a toilet on the lawn.



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« Last Edit: January 03, 2019, 04:56:51 am by Bilgemaster »
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ace.cafe

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Reply #8 on: January 03, 2019, 08:28:13 am
the only thing that MIGHT be useful (and maybe you've already considered this Ace) is the propose of the 'tickler', as I understand it, is to hold the float down, which allows a flooding condition for the cold start. I thought you're supposed to hold it down until some gas trickled out, but I thought the trickling would happen at the knob, so I was focused on that and not the gas pouring out of the air filter. Might seem obvious what the problem is, but I thought the gas drip continued long after it should have.

Yes, the 'smoke' did seem more like vapors more than smoke from a fire.
Any fuel from using the tickler to start should be long gone after you have ridden the bike. If that fuel is present after shutting the bike off, there is a float level problem.
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ivantheterrible

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Reply #9 on: January 03, 2019, 06:29:24 pm
Thanks y'all. You've given me much to consider/work on.
2007 sportster 883, yamaha vino 125, 2005 Nfield sixty 5 military with Hitchcock 612 kit


Bilgemaster

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Reply #10 on: January 03, 2019, 07:39:36 pm
Ace is almost certainly on the mark. Barring some obvious issue with the tickler holding down the float, it is almost certainly the float being set too high at "full" or the needle not seating properly. If you're using one of those latter-day black floats with the easily adjustable metal needle-holding fork, then a just a little tweak of a bend there will likely sort it. Should take only minutes.
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ivantheterrible

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Reply #11 on: January 03, 2019, 10:54:35 pm
I just checked the float using the link bilgemaster posted and I'm pretty sure the float wasn't set right. I bent the tab down, so it should shut off sooner. i'll let y'all know when I get a chance to try it out.
2007 sportster 883, yamaha vino 125, 2005 Nfield sixty 5 military with Hitchcock 612 kit