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Author Topic: Weired Handling  (Read 1342 times)

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Subbu-500

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on: November 07, 2018, 09:33:33 am
Hi All,

So my 2014 B5 with roughly 28k miles on it has started to scare me every now and then with its weired handling. Everything seems fine until i feel a sudden pull from side to side as if the rear and front wheel have had a heated argument and want to go their separate ways  :o... it is nothing dramatic..its almost as if i am zig zaging in a controlled manner if you know what i mean. But i can feel certain sideways movement and have to make minor steering inputs to counter them. It happens at all speeds but is most noticeable when i accelerate to say 60+ kmph and close the throttle even on perfectly smooth roads.

Things done so far: Brand new rear tyre, Got the Front and Rear wheels alligned 4 times in the last 45 days, the service center guys casually inspected the rear section and concluded the swingarm and all related components were good, i got the rear wheel bearings replaced. None of the above have had any effect what so ever on the problem. Please help.
Subbu
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Richard230

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Reply #1 on: November 07, 2018, 11:00:30 am
Could it be due to the new tires?  Maybe a defect or caused by the tread design?  Perhaps you could try different air pressures.  ???
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Roger

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Reply #2 on: November 07, 2018, 12:16:44 pm
There's a section of CA101 just south of King City that makes my bikes act squirrelly.  Have you noticed it happening on a certain section of road?
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Subbu-500

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Reply #3 on: November 07, 2018, 12:33:06 pm
Quote
Could it be due to the new tires?
Sorry i should have clarified it. This issue existed even before the rear tyre was replaced, in fact i got the new tyre because i assumed that the old tyre was causing it.
Quote
Have you noticed it happening on a certain section of road?
No it happens on perfectly good roads too. :-\
Subbu
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Roger

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Reply #4 on: November 07, 2018, 12:38:25 pm
Have you checked the steering head bearings?
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portisheadric

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Reply #5 on: November 07, 2018, 01:20:43 pm
Swinging arm spindle nut worked loose?
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Subbu-500

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Reply #6 on: November 07, 2018, 01:23:15 pm
No I haven't checked anything in the front. I will have that looked into. But I am 99% confident that something else is the culprit because there is no movement felt at the handlebars at all.. All the action originates from some where underneath the seat. Like from the mid section of the motorcycle  :-\
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Subbu-500

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Reply #7 on: November 07, 2018, 01:28:42 pm
Swinging arm spindle nut worked loose?
Would that not cause the entire rear wheel assembly to move from side to side when tugged while on center stand? If it does, then that is not the case either as the rear wheel assembly is really solid with no side way movement
Subbu
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GlennF

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Reply #8 on: November 07, 2018, 04:12:32 pm
I would also look at rear brake in case its binding and check the shocks and the preload settings.


HUdson51

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Reply #9 on: November 07, 2018, 09:28:09 pm
Check the frame very carefully for any cracks around the welds. There have been instances of this happening. The quality of steel used on the frames is not the best.


mike_bike_kite

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Reply #10 on: November 08, 2018, 01:54:15 am
It sounds to me like the swing arm bushings need replacing. I had a very similar experience on a different bike and this was the cause.
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9fingers

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Reply #11 on: November 08, 2018, 06:55:52 am
It sounds to me like the swing arm bushings need replacing. I had a very similar experience on a different bike and this was the cause.

My thought too.
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Jako

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Reply #12 on: November 08, 2018, 07:00:13 am
Like portisheadric said check swing arm spindle nut is tight.  Sounds exactly how mine was behaving .
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Subbu-500

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Reply #13 on: November 08, 2018, 07:49:53 am
Thanks everyone, i will get the swingarm spindle and bushings checked/replaced and report back then. Hopefully this is the fix.
Subbu
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Jako

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Reply #14 on: November 08, 2018, 03:11:17 pm
Check the spindle nut first , if this is loose it will feel like the bushes are worn , I ordered new bushes then discovered it was just the loose nut . The inner bush sleeve  4 needs to be clamped solid between the frame
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johno

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Reply #15 on: November 11, 2018, 02:46:31 am
when torqueing the swingarm bolt torque to a max of 50lb/ft but better at 45.
any more and the bolt will snap (don't ask me how I know!)
these bolts , why did they use bolts instead of a spindle?, can fail and stretch with age, the plastic bushings are very bad and are easily scored with grit and wear rapidly. you can replace these with original type metalastic rubber bushings which make for a far better ride.
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Reply #16 on: November 15, 2018, 08:35:38 pm
I need to know the conclusion of this issue.
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Narada

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Reply #17 on: November 16, 2018, 10:48:11 am
I would like to add at this point that my C5 has similar issues at higher speeds. I don't believe it had this current high speed instability since new, but has been manifesting for some time.  :-\

Makes for a fun (not) up-down, side-side wobble effect during back country highway cornering, and a constant wobble anytime above 50-60 mph.! It's subtle but undeniably there.  :o

Reading this thread and others about our weak swing arm bushings has convinced me to invest in some metalastic replacements as others have done.  ;)

It may be that my nut is loose, ha ha, or that the plastic bushings are worn, which have been known to go out at very low miles, (and in one case, weren't even there), or maybe they're fine. In any case I am putting the good ones in soon as they arrive!  8)
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Richard230

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Reply #18 on: November 16, 2018, 04:19:43 pm
I recall that my B5 would wobble a bit at high speeds until I increased the tire pressures to 24 psi, front and 32 psi, rear.
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Narada

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Reply #19 on: November 18, 2018, 03:49:42 pm
Got mine apart. Everything looks OK... ???

Now waiting on arrival of new metalastic bushings. Will re-assemble with proper torque and tire pressures soon as I can.  ::) (Sorry for the hi-jack, just thought I'd pile on!)
« Last Edit: November 18, 2018, 03:51:47 pm by Narada »
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Mad4Bullets

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Reply #20 on: November 26, 2018, 12:20:10 pm
A couple seasons back I was experiencing weird handling at varied speeds on my C5. Nothing violent mind you but there was definitely a noticeable wobble that would reveal itself on occasion.  It's just something I grew to accept over time. Eventually I had a puncture in my front inner tube and decided to pull both the tire and tube to investigate further.  I set the axle on two jack stands and set up a visual gauge to see if the rim was running true.  It didn't take long to verify that it was far from true. I had to tweak a number of spokes to straighten things out.  It's a good skill to learn if you've never done it.  And once everything was buttoned back up I put ceramic balancing beads in both inner tubes to dynamically balance the wheels in real time.  Now I'm sure that many dismiss such items as nonsense and waste of money and I certainly respect your opinion but I haven't had a single shimmy or weird handling since. Both my rims were out of true and neither had any factory weights applied for balancing at all so what can we really expect of them as we continue to find ways to increase our speeds. Yes we know the swing arm bushings wear and the brakes bind and there are a number of other potential culprits for weird handling but lets check those wheels.  They may be far worse than they appear.  Just something to consider in your troubleshooting and general maintenance.  Good Luck.  Regards, Kevin Daly


heloego

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Reply #21 on: November 27, 2018, 08:55:47 am
I thought the ceramic beads method was a joke, too, until I actually tried them.
All my bikes now have the Dyna Beads.
Good stuff, and the folks that originally came up with the concept should get a medal!
Amazon's loaded with the stuff.

https://www.amazon.com/s/?ie=UTF8&keywords=balancing+beads&tag=googhydr-20&index=aps&hvadid=177618456148&hvpos=1t1&hvnetw=g&hvrand=10581768830171404474&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=e&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9030460&hvtargid=kwd-3690750767&ref=pd_sl_8wqhztmisd_e
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Mad4Bullets

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Reply #22 on: November 27, 2018, 09:33:20 am
Another experienced believer.  Amen brother.  Glad to hear it  There is something to it all. and for these beads to shift to wherever they're needed as needed is the key.  I purchased one of the kits like those seen in your link and installing them was rather straightforward.  Taking your time and tapping the threaded valve stem with a small screwdriver while pouring them in helps quite a bit.  For those on the forum who are unfamiliar with this self-adjusting balancing act, there are numerous videos on the subject posted on YouTube.  These beads are very popular in the long distance trucking industry here in The States, and probably throughout the world.


Bert Remington

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Reply #23 on: November 27, 2018, 11:48:54 am
Yo Narada -- looks I'm continuing to slipstream your improvements.  My bushings (http://accessories.hitchcocksmotorcycles.com/accessory-shop/rear-suspension/20652) are in ParcelForce's hands and should be here next week.  I'll be installing them while SB and GHG are doing their engine magic (same changes as you except stock air filter and added AT-200* to PCV) so am interested in any installation suggestions.  One concern is torque of the hex flange bolt (#1 in https://www.hitchcocksmotorcycles.com/partsbooks/pages/3490/Swing_Arm_Assembly) -- is it 40NM or 50NM?  Apparently the torque value is close to the breaking strength of the bolt.

WRT to balancing beads and liquids, I was considering that path but my local tire guy Coyote says he doesn't like them so I went with traditional weights.  He doesn't do spokes so I'm looking for a specialist in San Diego.  On the other hand, my experience is the C5's handling is exactly what I expect from a single-tube engine-stressed-member frame -- a bit of a flex-flyer and stable unless you take your hands off the handlebars.  Totally fun on my back country rural roads!  I did buy a dedicated digital tire gauge, use it often, and keep it in my left-hand box with toolkit.

*I have a second one if you want to join me on this path.
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Jako

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Reply #24 on: November 27, 2018, 05:05:58 pm
Yo Narada -- looks I'm continuing to slipstream your improvements.  My bushings (http://accessories.hitchcocksmotorcycles.com/accessory-shop/rear-suspension/20652) are in ParcelForce's hands and should be here next week.  I'll be installing them while SB and GHG are doing their engine magic (same changes as you except stock air filter and added AT-200* to PCV) so am interested in any installation suggestions.  One concern is torque of the hex flange bolt (#1 in https://www.hitchcocksmotorcycles.com/partsbooks/pages/3490/Swing_Arm_Assembly) -- is it 40NM or 50NM?  Apparently the torque value is close to the breaking strength of the bolt.




These flange bolts are another know weak spot on our bikes , I have already upgraded to the metalastic bushes and I would like to replace the original flange bolt with a better quality bolt however I'm not sure what grade would be suitable for this application , I'm thinking grade 8 ,

Edit   Just took a closer look at original bolt , had to photograph it and expand to read the grade marking , 8.8  . So I will be replacing the Indian bolt with a known quality brand bolt.

« Last Edit: November 27, 2018, 06:20:31 pm by Jako »
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Narada

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Reply #25 on: November 28, 2018, 08:42:07 pm
Ha ha nice pic Jako... the bolt of darkness!  Well... a little mystery anyway. 

Personally Bert, I don't understand why such a hefty bolt as we have on our swing arms (12.5mm dia.) are so delicate?  ??? Maybe some of them, maybe only on certain years...were defective? I plan on torquing mine to factory specs (which I don't know other than what's been stated in this thread, but I will look up before torquing) and if it breaks, that must mean it was defective and failed the strength test!   :o

Since I am somewhat inexperienced at motorcycle repair, I sought out advice of one whose opinion I trust about such things as swing arm bolt tightening, and have been advised not to go so tight as to leave any "binding" condition in the up and down travel of the swing arm, and also to carefully shake the swing arm by grabbing the rear of the tire in order to verify that there is no looseness or lateral play at the connection to frame.

Thanks for the offer on the AT-200 also Bert, but I really don't get too technical in my thinking about things.  I got a PC-V and had the bike dialed in  on a Dynojet dynomometer so I figure it's close enough!

Honestly, I don't have time for any of this stuff. I just couldn't resist the engine job by GHG/SB it just made so much sense to me... I had to do it!  I've enjoyed all the mods I've done to date, but as soon as I get rid of my "wobble" I will be done.  That's it.  I will just leave it alone. Really. You can trust me...  ;)
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Grant Borden

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Reply #26 on: November 28, 2018, 09:03:17 pm
Narada,

your statement, "You can trust me..." reminds me of my first wife when Uncle Sam called me to visit him, 50 years ago. She was not truthful.

Grant
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Bert Remington

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Reply #27 on: November 28, 2018, 09:36:11 pm
Jako -- would you please let us know the details of the bolt you used and your torque setting.  Thanks.

Narada -- I don't trust you because I don't trust me.  After all there's your choice of fork oil viscosity.  And RaceTech (http://racetech.com/ProductSearch/12/Royal%20Enfield/Bullet%20500/2007-17) has a cartridge emulator with your name on it. ;D
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Jako

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Reply #28 on: November 29, 2018, 01:41:50 am
Jako -- would you please let us know the details of the bolt you used and your torque setting.  Thanks.

Bert , I am yet to change the swinging arm flange bolt , I will remove and measure the original  first chance I get and source a quality replacement ASAP . Since fitting the  metalastic bushes  and torquing to 70 NM  (52 ft lb) I haven't had any further problems in that area  . My original bolt  is still holding up after 20,000 km  so its  probably ok but it plays on my mind same as any known weaknesses do . So far I've upgraded the valves & springs , cams , primary and  final drive chain and loctited sprag  bolt  in my quest to eliminate potential failures .
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Jako

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Reply #29 on: November 30, 2018, 08:54:24 am
Bert , I replaced the bolt today,  The original is a imperial size , 1/2"  BSF 16 TPI x 9 1/2 "  with 8 1/4 " shoulder and 1 1/4" of  thread,. Strangely its stamped 8.8 which is a metric grade , very strange , the local fastener dealer has never seen 8.8 on a imperial size bolt . I went with grade 8 which is a stronger grade then the metric 8.8  and seems to be widely used in suspension components.. Available in UNC 13 TPI or UNF 20 TPI.
I wonder if over tightened drive chain has been the cause of some of these snapped swing arm bolts and not a bolt quality issue at all. My brothers brand new CGT came straight from the dealership with the chain tight enough to strum a tune on.
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Narada

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Reply #30 on: December 03, 2018, 09:16:13 pm
I just recieved my metalastic bushings from Hitchcocks, and in reading the UCE installation instructions which were included, it says using the "standard pivot bolt" with one included washer on each side, tighten the pivot bolt to 25 lb/ft (3.5kg/m).  :o

That's less than 1/2 the torque (52 lb/ft) I thought was required! Maybe metalastic needs less than nylon?  ???

It also mentions potentially "dressing" swing arm "counterbores" to accept the "bobbins" (bushings?) To be paralell to within 0.010 inch... I'll have to think about that one!  :P

Maybe I'll email them for clarification tomorrow.  ::)
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Reply #31 on: December 04, 2018, 10:28:16 am
Hi Narada

I can't remember what I tightened mine to when I fitted them. It might be in an earlier post somewhere.

What I do know is that it was an absolute pig of a job inserting them without a press. I used threaded bar and washers to squeeze them in and just made sure there was equal length protruding either side when done.

I also (rightly or wrongly) never used the thrust washers as there was no room for them and the bushing would not go in anymore so must be butted together.

They're not coming out in a hurry either and given how easy the nylons are to remove and replace, that's the road I wished I stayed on if I think about it.

It's not that much grief in removing the swingarm. A pain I suppose if a regular job but no different to any other.

It might be worth seeing if a local shop are able to put them in for you. I almost bought a cheap press on the strength of this job just in case there were other things that it would come in handy for :)


Bert Remington

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Reply #32 on: December 04, 2018, 03:38:15 pm
What I'm hearing from Narada and CW is the swingarm "counterbores" must be lightly line-bored for two reasons: (1) ensure bushing alignment, and (2) ease bushing insertion.  While I have a press I don't have anything for line-boring so its time to check local machine shops.  Thanks for the heads-up.
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gashousegorilla

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Reply #33 on: December 04, 2018, 06:50:48 pm
I just recieved my metalastic bushings from Hitchcocks, and in reading the UCE installation instructions which were included, it says using the "standard pivot bolt" with one included washer on each side, tighten the pivot bolt to 25 lb/ft (3.5kg/m).  :o

That's less than 1/2 the torque (52 lb/ft) I thought was required! Maybe metalastic needs less than nylon?  ???

It also mentions potentially "dressing" swing arm "counterbores" to accept the "bobbins" (bushings?) To be paralell to within 0.010 inch... I'll have to think about that one!  :P

Maybe I'll email them for clarification tomorrow.  ::)

    The cross tube on the swing -ing-ing arm is just that ... a tube.   That's  the "pipe" section of the swing arm that goes between the frame at the front.... there are no counter bores it's just a pipe.   That pipe can use some cleaning with a flap wheel or emery cloth to clean out the rust and crap in there before you press, or draw in the bushings.    A little grease on the surfaces goes a long way here.... ;)   Press or draw them in , as mentioned earlier, so that equal amount stick out each side.  The bushings will " butt" in the middle of the cross tube.  Stick the washers on the each side of the swing arm , between the swing arm and the frame when you slide the pivot bolt through.. And torque it down like they say, or how I described earlier.. . ;)      It going to be a metal to metal contact now... with a washer in the middle.... so you don't have to murder it. 

 If you want to get crazy like me ?    You can drill and tap in a couple of grease fittings on the left and right side of that swing arm cross tube , near each end.    And give them a shot of grease whenever you change your oil.  And you'll likely never have to worry about your swing arm bushes or a worn pivot bolt again.     I have a picture of it somewhere on the forum here ?......
An thaibhsí atá rattling ag an doras agus tá sé an diabhal sa chathaoir.


gashousegorilla

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Reply #34 on: December 04, 2018, 06:55:37 pm
An thaibhsí atá rattling ag an doras agus tá sé an diabhal sa chathaoir.


Jako

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Reply #35 on: December 05, 2018, 01:33:41 am
interesting Hitchcock's instructions recommend 25 ft lb on there metalastic bushes compared to  the 52 ft lb the original bushes use. I probably followed Hitchcock's instruction when I first fitted mine but I mistakenly used the books 52 ft lb this week when I replaced the bolt.
I see  no benefit fitting grease nipples , nothing should move on the flange bolt, the inner sleeve of the metalastic bushes  are clamped between the frame and remain stationary acting like crush tubes, the outer sleeve is a interference fit in the swingarm, the rubber between the the 2 sleeves flexes providing the required movement when the swingarm moves up and down. The 1\2" bolt only locates and clamps the inner sleeve to the frame and is a clearance fit inside the bushes not a pivoting surface . A good coat of grease on the bolt to prevent corrosion and aid fitting and removing should be all that's required.
 . When fitting  bushes into swinging arm just clean the bore with emery cloth  ,  grease or oil both surfaces  and press them in using suitable dolly or socket on a small press. Mine pressed in  very easily.
« Last Edit: December 07, 2018, 08:30:33 pm by Jako »
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Narada

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Reply #36 on: December 05, 2018, 09:11:01 am
Reply from Adrian regarding my request for clarification of instructions;

"Yes, the counter bore is the parallel sides of the tubular section of the swinging arm that the plastic/metalastic bushes come into contact with. The notes regarding the parallel sides basically refers to how round the counter bores are, some of the very early EFI's were quite bad, just check yours and remove any sharp edges to help the new bushes press in.  The torque setting for the pivot bolt and nut is in the factory manual as 70nm (52ft/lbs), we list 25 ft/lbs as the earlier Indian Bullets used the metalastic bushes as standard and this is the torque setting they used. Bearing this in mind we have replicated it as it is more relevant to the design of bush."
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Reply #37 on: December 05, 2018, 09:19:40 am
I tried to copy and paste that last entry but this "new and improved" forum would not accept that.  I decided to type it in manually, and it worked. Just a side note as that is another conversation.

GHG; Nice nipples! :o ;D  Thanks for the link to the older thread. I really should use the search function once in a while! :P Thanks also to all who are contributing your experience on this "Weird Handling" issue.

My apologies as well for any "Hi-jack-ification" that has occurred.

Now, I just need time to put things back together!
« Last Edit: December 05, 2018, 09:22:20 am by Narada »
Realize your Self on a Royal Enfield.

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Carlsberg Wordsworth

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Reply #38 on: December 05, 2018, 12:42:33 pm
gah. I'm going to have to check my torque settings now :)

To be fair it hasn't budged though I hope it doesn't matter I'm missing the thrust washers out. Too late now though lol.


Narada

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Reply #39 on: December 05, 2018, 01:17:30 pm
I thought you swing-ing arm looked odd GHG, it has an extra custom "counter-bored" tube!  :o Without bobbins, I presume?  ::)

Tried to attach a shot of my all origonal bobbin holding counter-bored swing-ing arm for comparison but new forum said no!  :(
Realize your Self on a Royal Enfield.

2015 Classic Chrome/Maroon, Forged Dome Piston, Ported head and H.P. Cams by SB/GHG, Power Commander-V, K&N, "Fin" intake, Dunlop K-70's, Koso TNT, Premium EFI Silencer.

2015 Triumph T-100, Orange / Black Two-Tone.
2012 Triumph Scrambler with DMC M-72D Sidecar


Jako

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Reply #40 on: December 05, 2018, 04:05:09 pm
Also when fitting metalastic bushes  make sure the bike is off the stand and sitting with  your weight on the wheels before  tightening the flange bolt so the rubber is not flexed while in the neutral  position  , I've attached a better explanation of   metalastic bushes  from another forum .
B5 2013 ,Honda CT110 2011, Honda C90 cub,  C5 (wife's bike)


gashousegorilla

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Reply #41 on: December 05, 2018, 05:51:59 pm
interesting Hitchcock's instructions recommend 25 ft lb on there metalastic bushes compared to  the 52 ft lb the original bushes use. I probably followed Hitchcock's instruction when I first fitted mine but I mistakenly used the books 52 ft lb this week when I replaced the bolt.
I see  no benefit fitting grease nipples , nothing should move on the flange bolt, the inner sleeve of the metalastic bushes  are clamped between the frame and remain stationary acting like crush tubes, the outer sleeve is a interference fit in the swingarm, the rubber between the the 2 sleeves flexes providing the required movement when the swingarm moves up and down. The 1\2" bolt only locates and clamps the inner sleeve to the frame and is a clearance fit inside the bushes not a pivoting surface . A good coat of grease on the bolt to prevent corrosion and aid fitting and removing should be all that's required.
 , just clean the bore with emery cloth  ,  grease or oil both surfaces  and press them in using suitable dolly or socket on a small press. Mine pressed in  very easily.



 Whelp... I can tell ya my swing arm , it most definitely will pivot  up and down on that pivot  bolt ,that runs from one side of the frame to the other... through the cross tube on the swing arm. And where that bolt runs through the bush's.... that is metal to metal contact.    The rubber in the bushes may distort and dampen small bumps , but at full travel of the swing arm and compression of the rear shocks   ?   No way... not on my bike anyway.    That is why I  put grease fittings in, so the metal  cross bolt is not worn by the the metal bush that it rides in.  Not a must... but it's  easier then pulling the bolt out  and greasing it from time to time. 


 
I thought you swing-ing arm looked odd GHG, it has an extra custom "counter-bored" tube!  :o Without bobbins, I presume?  ::)

Tried to attach a shot of my all origonal bobbin holding counter-bored swing-ing arm for comparison but new forum said no!  :(

 
  What the hell is a bobbin !?!   The swing arm goes a bobbin up and down ?!    Hahahahha !  ;D    Text me a pic so I can see what your talking about, and I'll post it for you if you want.  ;)
« Last Edit: December 05, 2018, 05:58:42 pm by gashousegorilla »
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Jako

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Reply #42 on: December 05, 2018, 08:22:55 pm


 Whelp... I can tell ya my swing arm , it most definitely will pivot  up and down on that pivot  bolt ,that runs from one side of the frame to the other... through the cross tube on the swing arm. And where that bolt runs through the bush's.... that is metal to metal contact.    The rubber in the bushes may distort and dampen small bumps , but at full travel of the swing arm and compression of the rear shocks   ?   No way... not on my bike anyway.    That is why I  put grease fittings in, so the metal  cross bolt is not worn by the the metal bush that it rides in.  Not a must... but it's  easier then pulling the bolt out  and greasing it from time to time


The name itself 'Metalastic' is sort of self explanatory.
  With my rear shocks removed and bike on centre stand you can move the swingarm through its travel and feel the rubber resistence pulling  back to  centre position, if it was pivoting on the bolt it would have little resistance and wouldn't return to centre. There is very limited rotation at the bush end of the swinging arm , the wheel end has around 80 mm travel  at approx 450 mm radius from the pivot point, this would translate to only a few mm movement at the rubber section of the bush.  This makes it important to keep the bolt torque in spec to prevent rotation on the inner sleeve instead of the rubber flexing .

 
 
 
« Last Edit: December 07, 2018, 02:19:04 am by Jako »
B5 2013 ,Honda CT110 2011, Honda C90 cub,  C5 (wife's bike)


Haggis

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Reply #43 on: December 07, 2018, 05:14:37 am
Quote
Whelp... I can tell ya my swing arm , it most definitely will pivot  up and down on that pivot  bolt ,that runs from one side of the frame to the other... through the cross tube on the swing arm. And where that bolt runs through the bush's.... that is metal to metal contact.    The rubber in the bushes may distort and dampen small bumps , but at full travel of the swing arm and compression of the rear shocks   ?   No way... not on my bike anyway.    That is why I  put grease fittings in, so the metal  cross bolt is not worn by the the metal bush that it rides in.  Not a must... but it's  easier then pulling the bolt out  and greasing it from time to time. 

Swingarm should not be pivoting on the mounting bolt.
Did you remember to fit the washers between each bush and the frame?
When torqued up the bushes internal sleeves are held firm, there is no movement between bolt and bush.
You've fitted grease points to grease a non moving rubber bush??
Off route, recalculate?


Haggis

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Reply #44 on: December 07, 2018, 02:12:40 pm

« Last Edit: December 07, 2018, 02:17:39 pm by Haggis »
Off route, recalculate?


Haggis

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Reply #45 on: December 07, 2018, 04:30:32 pm
Another problem may be that the frames are a different width between the mounting points.
Or ( more likely) there are two widths of swingarms?
With the original plastic bushes, there are two different lengths of spacer/ pivot.
195mm (Code: 580037A) for early models and 200mm (Code: 580037B)  for later models.
So there are at least two different widths of frame or swingarm?
I have no idea of the model years.
« Last Edit: December 08, 2018, 07:14:05 am by Haggis »
Off route, recalculate?


Narada

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Reply #46 on: December 07, 2018, 06:47:52 pm
Nice picture Haggis! Oooh, now there's another one! Two nice pictures, (if a pictures worth 1,000 words, that's good for 2,000  ;) ).

Hitchcocks shows the metalastic conversion kit as being for all EFI models 2008 and up, but then, that's probably when they changed over to the plastic bushings...  ???  Also, unfortunately our frames are not exactly built to swiss watch standards either so anything is possible!  :o
« Last Edit: December 07, 2018, 06:52:42 pm by Narada »
Realize your Self on a Royal Enfield.

2015 Classic Chrome/Maroon, Forged Dome Piston, Ported head and H.P. Cams by SB/GHG, Power Commander-V, K&N, "Fin" intake, Dunlop K-70's, Koso TNT, Premium EFI Silencer.

2015 Triumph T-100, Orange / Black Two-Tone.
2012 Triumph Scrambler with DMC M-72D Sidecar


Carlsberg Wordsworth

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Reply #47 on: December 09, 2018, 02:33:59 pm
Subbu-500 needs to rename this thread :)

Subbu, did you sort it in the end?

I must say Haggis, your pics appear to show the metalistic as the same length as the swingarm whereas the space and nylons look longer?

I cant remember what I ordered now. I'll have to check. Perhaps that's why i couldn't fit my thrust washers in. I know at the time I'm sure I ordered the right set for model year if indeed there were two different sets available. Doesn't mean I had a correct model year swingarm though lol.

Still, for the record (and my own memory should I forget) I did indeed tighten to H torque spec.


I used a 21mm socket on the bolt head and a Whitworth 7/16 on the nut as I only had one Whitworth socket and that was the best fit I had.


Haggis

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Reply #48 on: December 10, 2018, 04:46:28 am
The metalastic bushes plus their washers have the same overall length as the original plastic bush spacer/ pivot plus washer/seals.

Off route, recalculate?


portisheadric

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Reply #49 on: December 10, 2018, 09:44:48 am
I found a noticeable gap between the frame and swinging arm on my B5 once I'd replaced worn bushes with new, so I'm made the assumption that after replacing like for like the 'at rest' gap was always present from new.
I made a single fat shim out of of one of the old dust caps (instead of two thinner ones of the same thickness) and deliberately placed it inside one of the new dust caps. This not only provided a snug fit between the frame and swinging arm, it also moved it across to better align the rear sprocket with the front.

Irrespective of if the upgraded bushes provide the same overall width as the originals or not, it does seem wise to check for any excessive gap and shim accordingly prior to full reassembly.


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