Author Topic: Ongoing Electrical Issues  (Read 21933 times)

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tooseevee

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Reply #45 on: August 23, 2018, 04:27:25 pm
Great, thanks guys!  I'm still hoping Baker in Fort Worth will get back to me...

If I'm waiting for a lengthy international delivery I can always bypass the ignition switch and wire in a hidden cutoff along the positive lead near the battery.  That's if I'm getting desperate...

     Here's another eBay reference:

https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=m570.l1313&_nkw=royal+enfield+ignition+switch+597130+&_sacat=0

    Hitchcocks also has them. Part #597130 - 24.50 pounds
It's probably the same as the ones on Ebay -Minda.

      Ft. Worth has them (if they ever answer you back) for $50.00. They still have a glitch in the online store: the picture of the product covers half the description page and you can't get rid of it.
« Last Edit: August 23, 2018, 04:39:51 pm by tooseevee »
RI USA '08 Black AVL Classic.9.8:1 ACEhead/manifold/canister. TM32/Open bottle/hot tube removed. Pertronix Coil. Fed mandates removed. Gr.TCI. Bobber seat. Battery in right side case. Decomp&all doodads removed. '30s Lucas taillight/7" visored headlight. Much blackout & wire/electrical upgrades.


Superchuck

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Reply #46 on: August 24, 2018, 11:32:50 am
Excellent, thanks again for all the sources.

I will be calling Fort Worth today as the email requests seem to have gone missing.

Will also be ordering the new battery, coil, ht lead, and plugs next week while I'm away.  I feel good about changing/upgrading these even if they're not the exact root of my problem.  Can't hurt, and will probably just make things better. 

Will keep you updated.

Cheers,
Chuck


tooseevee

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Reply #47 on: August 24, 2018, 12:54:40 pm
Excellent, thanks again for all the sources.

Will also be ordering the new battery, coil, ht lead, and plugs next week while I'm away.  I feel good about changing/upgrading these even if they're not the exact root of my problem.  Can't hurt, and will probably just make things better. 

Will keep you updated.

Cheers,
Chuck

      When you wire up that new coil you'll want to go to a heavier wire. The Red/White and Brown wires you need to tap into are as thin as spider web and you can't solder the connections. Here is what I used with excellent results:

https://www.google.com/search?q=Positaps&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&client=firefox-b-1

      I'll gladly send you some if you want; I'll probably never use up the ones I still have. You may find you want to buy more when you see how good they work. If you want to try a Champion plug I'll send you one of those also. PM me.

      PS: I tapped into those coil wires right at the TCI under the seat. I did away with the factory wires that run forward to the under-the-tank coil.
« Last Edit: August 24, 2018, 01:07:05 pm by tooseevee »
RI USA '08 Black AVL Classic.9.8:1 ACEhead/manifold/canister. TM32/Open bottle/hot tube removed. Pertronix Coil. Fed mandates removed. Gr.TCI. Bobber seat. Battery in right side case. Decomp&all doodads removed. '30s Lucas taillight/7" visored headlight. Much blackout & wire/electrical upgrades.


Superchuck

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Reply #48 on: August 24, 2018, 03:23:16 pm
Thank you... I will send a PM.

So if I am reading that correctly, you positapped into the brown and the red/white wire just outside the TCI box plug connector.  That way there is very little length of the web-thin wire which if left as OEM it may be insufficient for the current we're working with in the ignition circuit?

From reading your other thread I believe you also located the pertronix coil somewhere near the carb / seat in order to reduce the length of wire run.

Enfield Fort Worth opened twenty minutes ago.  I'll call them in a little bit before they get busy for the day.


tooseevee

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Reply #49 on: August 24, 2018, 03:38:46 pm
Thank you... I will send a PM.

So if I am reading that correctly, you positapped into the brown and the red/white wire just outside the TCI box plug connector.  That way there is very little length of the web-thin wire which if left as OEM it may be insufficient for the current we're working with in the ignition circuit?

From reading your other thread I believe you also located the pertronix coil somewhere near the carb / seat in order to reduce the length of wire run.

Enfield Fort Worth opened twenty minutes ago.  I'll call them in a little bit before they get busy for the day.

    As to your first question, I don't know the math of the electricity of the ohmage of the length of the wire times the diameter...... All I know is that I can kickstart it cold and it runs like a raped ape  :o :o

            The length of the wire had nothing to do with mounting the coil on the downtube. It was one of the only places it would go and also look good (to me) and not look dorky (to me). It (anything) should look like it goes there and isn't screaming for attention among all the other parts for me to like it.

       
RI USA '08 Black AVL Classic.9.8:1 ACEhead/manifold/canister. TM32/Open bottle/hot tube removed. Pertronix Coil. Fed mandates removed. Gr.TCI. Bobber seat. Battery in right side case. Decomp&all doodads removed. '30s Lucas taillight/7" visored headlight. Much blackout & wire/electrical upgrades.


Superchuck

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Reply #50 on: August 24, 2018, 09:31:02 pm
Just got off the phone with Enfield of Fort Worth.  Turns out they don't have any of my Electra parts in stock.  They'd have to order them from out of the country, so I'm probably best off picking and choosing from those ebay sellers since it might be quicker.  (he said 14-30 business days depending on where the parts had to come from). 

I've got momentum now for this project so I'm just going to keep stabbing forward and see what I can make work. 

In a week I should be receiving a new stronger battery, the coil, and HT lead.  I will bypass my ignition switch if it keeps giving me issues, and in the meantime I will try and see which of the ebay options would be best.  I also suspect that my right-hand switch assembly might be the root of my lighting issues.  I still have that little jumper they put in the US bikes for the 'always on' headlight.  I'll throw that back in which bypasses the lighting switch to see if that fixes it.  If that fixes it and I get the bike running well, a future project may be to swap out the OEM handlebar switch assemblies for sleeker aftermarket parts.

Fingers crossed i get this rolling in the next few weeks.

Tooseevee, can you tell me which exact Champion plug you are using?  EDIT:  Is it the Champion RN2C ?

Also, one more question about the coil:  Pertronix's website is confusing, but it looks like the 40511 is the Oil-Filled coil, and the 40611 is the epoxy filled one.  They recommend the epoxy for off-road vehicles, which a shaky 500 single might qualify as.  Should I be ok ordering the 40611?  it's still a 3 ohm Pertronix coil.  Again, apologies for my cluelessness!

Thanks for everyone's help.  Can't wait to get rolling again.

Cheers,
Chuck
« Last Edit: August 24, 2018, 09:52:54 pm by Superchuck »


tooseevee

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Reply #51 on: August 24, 2018, 10:09:28 pm

Tooseevee, can you tell me which exact Champion plug you are using?  EDIT:  Is it the Champion RN2C ?

Cheers,
Chuck

      Yes. That plug (& heat range) has seemed fine for this engine and when and how I ride; late Spring through September maybe October. And it has Never fouled nor failed to fire unlike the many NGKs I went through dialing this bitch in.
RI USA '08 Black AVL Classic.9.8:1 ACEhead/manifold/canister. TM32/Open bottle/hot tube removed. Pertronix Coil. Fed mandates removed. Gr.TCI. Bobber seat. Battery in right side case. Decomp&all doodads removed. '30s Lucas taillight/7" visored headlight. Much blackout & wire/electrical upgrades.


tooseevee

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Reply #52 on: August 25, 2018, 02:21:27 am
Also, one more question about the coil:  Pertronix's website is confusing, but it looks like the 40511 is the Oil-Filled coil, and the 40611 is the epoxy filled one.  They recommend the epoxy for off-road vehicles, which a shaky 500 single might qualify as.  Should I be ok ordering the 40611?  it's still a 3 ohm Pertronix coil.  Again, apologies for my cluelessness!

Cheers,
Chuck
    I have the 40511 oil-filled black only because it's just what I've mostly used on quite a few bikes and cars since the '50s. Heat is no problem for this coil on the Enfield and I don't offroad.
       Either one is fine; your choice.
        Here's the chrome one on the last little shovelhead I built. My last.
« Last Edit: August 25, 2018, 02:25:30 am by tooseevee »
RI USA '08 Black AVL Classic.9.8:1 ACEhead/manifold/canister. TM32/Open bottle/hot tube removed. Pertronix Coil. Fed mandates removed. Gr.TCI. Bobber seat. Battery in right side case. Decomp&all doodads removed. '30s Lucas taillight/7" visored headlight. Much blackout & wire/electrical upgrades.


Adrian II

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Reply #53 on: August 25, 2018, 10:54:38 am
Quote
Tooseevee, can you tell me which exact Champion plug you are using?  EDIT:  Is it the Champion RN2C ?

Don't forget tooseevee's motor has had the Ace Cafe cylinder head rework and probably needs that grade of plug. With a stock head a cold plug like that might carbon up, mine is fine with the hotter-running N3C, you might even get away with the N4C. I'm assuming RN2C is a resistor plug, are they specified by Petronix?

Quote
a future project may be to swap out the OEM handlebar switch assemblies for sleeker aftermarket parts.

Or you could fit something more 50's style...

A.
Grumpy Brit still seeking 500 AVL Bullet perfection! Will let you know if I get anywhere near...


Mick Bailey

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Reply #54 on: August 25, 2018, 01:06:37 pm
I switched to a Champion N2C a while back and for a time starting was much easier but I came to the bike one day and it wouldn't start. I took the plug out and it was quite sooty - enough to cover the electrode with conductive carbon and not spark. I went a grade hotter and it's been fine since.


tooseevee

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Reply #55 on: August 25, 2018, 01:15:38 pm
Don't forget tooseevee's motor has had the Ace Cafe cylinder head rework and probably needs that grade of plug. With a stock head a cold plug like that might carbon up, mine is fine with the hotter-running N3C, you might even get away with the N4C. I'm assuming RN2C is a resistor plug, are they specified by Petronix?
A.

      Yes, Adrian, I do believe you are correct.

        I have to admit I've been unclear from the beginning on whether to use an R plug or a non-R plug with this Pertronix.

         In the beginning I bought the RN2C because I reasoned that I have no more stock resistor cap and no resistor in the HT cable therefore get an R plug.

         I now find what I missed (after actually reading the Pertronix site) and that is that the Pertronix coil is "internally resisted" whatever that means.

         So what does that mean in the real world? Yes, I'm asking you. Because you're so wicked smart  :) :) Should the next plug I install be an N2C (not an RN2C) and what real world difference does it make to an engine like the Enfield even conSIDering the mods that have been made to mine the main thing being the higher compression and increased flow?

      I remember years ago ('10, '11, '12) the BR9ES being recommended on this forum when the engine already had that shitty tin resistor cap. I think it was you and me then who brought up that that might be wrong.

           
« Last Edit: August 25, 2018, 01:40:26 pm by tooseevee »
RI USA '08 Black AVL Classic.9.8:1 ACEhead/manifold/canister. TM32/Open bottle/hot tube removed. Pertronix Coil. Fed mandates removed. Gr.TCI. Bobber seat. Battery in right side case. Decomp&all doodads removed. '30s Lucas taillight/7" visored headlight. Much blackout & wire/electrical upgrades.


Superchuck

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Reply #56 on: August 25, 2018, 01:19:25 pm
Ha, I continue to become more learned!

I run pretty rich.  Because of that should I maybe shoot for the N4C?  Or is N3C probably ok?

The coil, HT lead, and plug cap setup that Tooseevee is running is not resistor-ed (technical term) because of that I believe the resistor plug was an intentional choice.  I'm basically duplicating his setup in the ignition circuit as a way to eliminate potential faulty equipment and it can't hurt to upgrade on the off chance everything is fine.

EDIT: disregard my post.  I eagerly await a reply to Tooseevee's questions.


tooseevee

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Reply #57 on: August 25, 2018, 01:24:40 pm
I switched to a Champion N2C a while back and for a time starting was much easier but I came to the bike one day and it wouldn't start. I took the plug out and it was quite sooty - enough to cover the electrode with conductive carbon and not spark. I went a grade hotter and it's been fine since.

         Yes, I've thought of trying a 3 also just to see, but the 2 is showing itself to be gorgeous coloringwise with this engine and the way I ride contrasted with the NGK plug of the past never looking good no matter how tweaked the carb was to the point of totally fouling many times to the point of total no-startism, kick OR electric, until a new one was put in. And I still have the feeling that the NGK spark (when the engine and fuel were cold) was just not strong enough to start it.   

      When I switched to the Champion plug, that was the ONLY thing changed (the carb stayed the same and the Pertronix had already been installed while still on the NGK plugs) and the Champion totally cured the cold start problem, kick or electric, immediately. Now I just whisper "Start" near the starter switch and it starts instantly. 2 or 3 kicks cold (sometimes 1) and it's running whereas with the NGK plugs I NEVER was able to kickstart it cold. And I spent YEARS trying to tweak my way to a solution for that and a simple plug switch did it.

       (This is all back in the dusty archives of this forum).

« Last Edit: August 25, 2018, 01:44:04 pm by tooseevee »
RI USA '08 Black AVL Classic.9.8:1 ACEhead/manifold/canister. TM32/Open bottle/hot tube removed. Pertronix Coil. Fed mandates removed. Gr.TCI. Bobber seat. Battery in right side case. Decomp&all doodads removed. '30s Lucas taillight/7" visored headlight. Much blackout & wire/electrical upgrades.


Adrian II

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Reply #58 on: August 25, 2018, 11:02:11 pm
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Yes, I'm asking you. Because you're so wicked smart

What EXACTLY have you been smoking, tooseevee? I have tried my whole life to avoid being smart or doing anything smart, and I don't intend to start now!  I have three and four quarter RE Bullets in the garage to prove it... ;D

OK, the "received wisdom" (which as we know isn't always correct) is that if you have a resistor (supressor) plug cap you don't need a resistor plug, or if you have a resistor plug you don't need a supressor plug cap, just so long as you have one or the other. HOWEVER, some modern ignition systems produce such a nice fat spark that you can have more than one resistor quite happily. For most of us we also need an old school HT lead with a good copper core eather than a more modern item. Resistor coils are well outside my flower pot of expertise, but if the set-up you have now just fires up your AVL when you want and lets it run nicely, that rather suggests that everything is just as it should be, relax (especially after your NGK fiasco). The real world appears to be saying "you got it right".

As a side note two of my REs have BT-H electronic (CDI-based) magnetos, and the instructions warn AGAINST using supressor plug caps, yet my Not A Fury's regulator/rectifier instructions warn that a supressor plug cap MUST be used or the interfrerence will overload and cook the reg/rectifier. I am running a resistor plug with the unsupressed plug cap, hoping that will be enough to avoid frying the reg/rectifier. Solve one problem, cause another, but it seems OK **so** far.

A.

Grumpy Brit still seeking 500 AVL Bullet perfection! Will let you know if I get anywhere near...


Superchuck

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Reply #59 on: August 26, 2018, 03:09:00 pm
So I haven't ordered the pertronix coil yet until I have a better understanding or specific advice:

The coil Tooseevee is using is a 40k watt 3ohm coil.  There is also a 40k watt 1.5ohm coil, everything else seems identical. 

What is the impedance rating on the coil itself for?  Is one better than the others considering the rest of my setup?   Stock engine, thinking I'll go with the champion N3C plug, solid copper HT lead with unsuppressed plug cap.

Thoughts/opinions/conjecture?

Thanks!
Chuck