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Author Topic: Ongoing Electrical Issues  (Read 1982 times)

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Arizoni

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Reply #15 on: August 02, 2018, 05:47:02 pm
I realize it's dangerous to trust it but the electrical diagram I downloaded from somewhere for the Electra models shows a gray wire serving as the power supply for the rear tail light, the parking lights and the lights in the ammeter and speedometer.

The rear brake light wire is green.
It shows the ground for the tail light as going directly to the frame but there might be a dedicated ground wire.  If it has a ground wire, it should be black.
Jim
2011 G5 Deluxe
1999 Miata 10th Anniversary


Superchuck

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Reply #16 on: August 03, 2018, 09:37:01 am
Arizoni, I think this is the wiring diagram you're referring to (attached).  It's not 100% correct, but it's proven to be fairly accurate for my machine.  Think I got this from Snidal's manual, or perhaps elsewhere online.

Thanks very much to everyone for the input.  It's been monsoon season in Baltimore, but I hope for some sunshine this weekend so I can take another look at it (no garage city living).

On a side note, I came across this old post by Rosetap regarding simplifying the wiring harness:  https://forum.classicmotorworks.com/index.php/topic,10656.msg123773.html#msg123773
 I don't know if Rosetap still active on the forum, and what his final result came to.  Sounds like he was almost there.  Also, does anyone else have a working simplified schematic they would be ok with sharing?  (I'm KS only... unplugged the ES, etc).  First step is getting this thing running with the stock harness, but I would love to simplify the rats nest.


Adrian II

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Reply #17 on: August 03, 2018, 11:57:31 am
As a longer-term objective you could start assembling the parts/materials for your own custom wiring loom. Think about what components you will need to keep and what to replace. Will you keep the electric start or not? OEM switch gear or something different? Then just think logically about what juice flows where...

Scattered around my garage are the parts for my Please-No-Not-Another-Project, an Electra-X engine in a 1994 Bullet frame. As it will be kick start only I shall be building my own loom from scratch (as I did with ASBO12, which has an Electra-X alternator), probably using 50's-style switch gear where possible.

A.
Grumpy Brit still seeking 500 AVL Bullet perfection! Will let you know if I get anywhere near...


Superchuck

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Reply #18 on: August 08, 2018, 07:50:43 pm
Ok, so I still haven't had a chance during daylight hours to troubleshoot the wiring with the engine on, but I did get a break between rains tonight to check for continuity.

Tested positive for continuity between the tail light 'running' bulb contact (in the bulb socket) and the 5-pin connector under the seat.  (it's a 6-pin connector with 5 spots used by wires).

Tested positive for continuity between the 5-pin connector under the seat and the 9-pin connector in the headlight casque.

I turned the ignition on but with the engine off in order to check for voltage at those wires, but I got next to nothing.  Keep in mind my bike has a tiny dirtbike battery in it now, but for years it has been sufficient to kick-start the bike, and kick-starting is not an issue here.  My bike relies heavily on its own power generation to power the lights, so I'll just have to hope I get a chance this weekend to do it with the engine on.

I'm still waiting for the RR unit to get here from China.  Amazon gave me a 3-week window in which to expect it, and that window just started Monday (8/6/18).

So this isn't really new news, but figured I should at least touch base to let you all know I'm still working on it.  In the meantime I will tinker elsewhere, and fingers crossed I can get out and solve the electrical issue this weekend.

Cheers!
Chuck


Superchuck

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Reply #19 on: August 11, 2018, 11:03:35 am
Ok so I just got at it with the multimeter and the engine running...

The gray wire that feeds the tail running light was getting about 3.5 volts between the gray wire and an engine fin / frame.

I have two wires that attach to my ignition switch... One red, and one red/white.

The red wire was also at about 3.5 volts.
The red/white was at a whopping 26 volts!

My headlamp was not plugged in.  I am still awaiting the replacement RR until... Any day now.  Any day now.

My battery (12v, 2.5ah AGM battery) read about 10.8 volts across it's poles with the bike off, and once warmed up it was also reading a whopping 26v across the poles.

I don't think I'm going to try and start it again until the new RR gets here.

..... Ten minutes passes.

Ok I lied.  I plugged in the headlamp and fired it up again.  Once warmed up the battery read about 15.2 volts across the poles. 

However, when testing the positive pole versus the bike frame, I got next to no voltage...?  Does this mean I should freshen up my ground wire from the battery?

The two wires going into/coming out of my ignition switch also read about 15.X volts when tested against the chrome headlamp mounting rim.

The red wire and the red/yellow wire attached to the ammeter also read 15.X volts when tested against the headlamp rim.  The gray wire which (powers the ammeter bulb?) Tested as almost no volts.

The gray wire coming out of the right hand control cluster also had next to no voltage.

After all my tests, and with the bike off, my battery now tests about 11.8 volts across it's poles.

So the bike is starting up fine, and is running fine.  Hopefully the new RR unit (once it gets here) will prevent me from constantly blowing all my lights. 

I think my next step is to look into the right control cluster and make sure I have no broken solder joints etc.  I'm pretty sure that's where the 'gray wire for auxiliary and always on lights' gets it's power.

I'm still very wary of the electricals on this bike, and I feel like I may have other loose connections elsewhere, but one thing at a time. 

Any thoughts?
« Last Edit: August 11, 2018, 11:06:01 am by Superchuck »


Superchuck

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Reply #20 on: August 19, 2018, 01:30:05 pm
Howfy folks,

The new RR unit came on Thursday and I spent the whole weekend tinkering on the bike. 

At the moment I'm not getting a spark, but the brown wire at pigtail to the coil is reading about 9 or 10v with the bike off.

Same at the brown lead at the TCI.

New plug, switched out for another new plug.

Methinks it's a good idea to replace the coil.

I really really want this bike to run. 

If I were to replace the coil and the cable which powers the spark plug, what exactly do I need to order?  Again I apologize for my naivete.

Damn I really want a working motorcycle.

Thanks in advance!


tooseevee

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Reply #21 on: August 19, 2018, 03:29:57 pm
Howfy folks,

At the moment I'm not getting a spark,

New plug, switched out for another new plug.

Methinks it's a good idea to replace the coil.

I really really want this bike to run. 

If I were to replace the coil and the cable which powers the spark plug, what exactly do I need to order?  Again I apologize for my naivete.

Thanks in advance!

         Do you want the stock coil? If so, it's Part# 502027/a. Call Tim in Ft. Worth.

          I put a Pertronix on mine, but you also need a mount for it. I think maybe it comes with it.

http://www.pertronix.com/prod/ig/flame/coils/40000_volt.aspx
« Last Edit: August 19, 2018, 03:33:49 pm by tooseevee »
2008 AVL Classic.Extensive head work by Ace.Ace canister/TM32/Ace manifold.Small open bottle/hot tube removed.Pertronix Coil.Bobber seat.Fed mandates removed.Battery in right side case.Decomp&all doodads removed.'30s Lucas taillight/7" headlight.


Superchuck

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Reply #22 on: August 19, 2018, 03:45:52 pm
Thanks for the reply, Tooseevee.

I remember you being immensely pleased with the petronix.

Which resistance did you go with?

These are what Amazon has at the moment: https://www.amazon.com/s?k=petronix+flamethrower

Also, do I remember correctly that you are also using a small AGM battery? 

In addition to the coil, is there a particular cable which I need to attach to the spark plug?

Thanks in advance!


tooseevee

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Reply #23 on: August 19, 2018, 04:49:09 pm
Thanks for the reply, Tooseevee.

I remember you being immensely pleased with the petronix.

Which resistance did you go with?

Also, do I remember correctly that you are also using a small AGM battery? 

In addition to the coil, is there a particular cable which I need to attach to the spark plug?

Thanks in advance!
https:

   Here's the coil, 3.0 ohms:

//www.ebay.com/itm/PerTronix-Performance-Pro-40511-Flamethrower-Ignition-Coil-3-0-OHM-Black/332451892132?epid=220441318&hash=item4d67ad4ba4:g:kqwAAOSwYWdaDZbS

     Can't find the wire. Gimmee some time. It looks like '30s or '40s cloth harley wire, but it's modern.

      The battery is a Motobatt MB5.5U. It fits right in the right side case with some foam and leather padding, new and rerun neated up wiring.   

      Here's the plug wire. You get two so you have a spare wire forever:

   http://www.bisonmotorsports.com/7mm-Braided-Spark-Plug-Wire-Kit-Orange-and-Black-p/01-0312.htm

       I don't remember paying that much, but wadderyagunna do??  ??? ???


« Last Edit: August 19, 2018, 05:07:48 pm by tooseevee »
2008 AVL Classic.Extensive head work by Ace.Ace canister/TM32/Ace manifold.Small open bottle/hot tube removed.Pertronix Coil.Bobber seat.Fed mandates removed.Battery in right side case.Decomp&all doodads removed.'30s Lucas taillight/7" headlight.


Superchuck

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Reply #24 on: August 19, 2018, 06:55:50 pm
Ok, great- thanks very much! 

I currently have a 12v 2.5ah AGM battery... i think it's also a Motobatt.  I am kick start only, and it's always been plenty of power for that... However, do you think that with the new high powered coil that the 2.5ah won't quite cut it?  I honestly know nothing about electricity.

I do fear that I have additional wiring issues, but I want to replace these big important components to eliminate them as variables.  Honestly I'm on the fence about possibly springing for a modern Japanese bike if I can't get my Enfield to be reliable.  I love the tinkering, but I've been battling electrical issues for the past 3 or 4 years, and it would be nice to be able to use it as transportation, not just hobby wrenching.

But that said, throwing some parts at the Enfield is much cheaper than a new bike, and I want very much for this to work for me.  I've put a lot of elbow grease into this thing, and it's really great when it works.  Love this damn thing. So fingers crossed.

Also, is there anywhere that sells a reliable main wiring harness for these bikes?  I'd rather throw a couple hundred bucks if need be at replacement electricals for the Enfield if that will solve my reliability issues.

Cheers!
Chuck


tooseevee

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Reply #25 on: August 20, 2018, 06:56:08 am
Tooseevee,

Thanks for the input.  I, too am very interested in replacing the entire wiring harness.  I have had many loose or intermittent electrical connections over the years I've owned the bike, and it's left me stranded a number of times.  I have had very little mechanical issues with my AVL, but I have had a lifetime's worth of electrical issues.

Alas, I am realizing I do not have the time to rebuild the electrical harness from scratch, although that's what I'd really like to do.  Does anyone know of a quality replacement main wiring harness that is a direct swap?  Or is anything purchased just garbage, making DIY the only real solution?

Cheers!
Chuck

        I can't help you on a new wiring harness, I'm afraid. I just don't know what's out there. What I did essentially is just take apart the whole existing mess from head light to tail light and did my best to make it all right and bullet proof. There was a lot of really bad work in there. I also got rid of a lot of components just not needed and replaced the glass fuses with their hair-thin wires with blade fuses, etc.. Also new HD starter relay and a Bosch relay for the starter switch to keep the contacts from arcing. After the first cold start of the day I never use it.

      I think your battery will easily power the Pertronix coil. Just keep it 100% all the time. Whether you have the 2.5 or the 5.5 you're going to get a good strong spark from the Pertronix. Maybe when your 2.5 goes, if it ever does, you could go to the 5.5ah.   
2008 AVL Classic.Extensive head work by Ace.Ace canister/TM32/Ace manifold.Small open bottle/hot tube removed.Pertronix Coil.Bobber seat.Fed mandates removed.Battery in right side case.Decomp&all doodads removed.'30s Lucas taillight/7" headlight.


Superchuck

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Reply #26 on: August 20, 2018, 07:25:13 am
Thanks again for the info!

I was penning this message as you responded.  Sorry for the rapid fire but I am emotionally distressed by my motorcycle at the moment.

In retrospect I think my tiny battery has to go.  I think I'm going to replace everything that can easily be replaced, and hope that fixes it...  The plan is to eliminate all possible variables, and so far that includes battery, ignition switch, coil, plug cable, and TCI box. 

I'm considering the MB7BB 12v 9ah battery since it's only a half-inch wider than the 7ah.  The 2.4ah has been fine for my kickstart, but I do complain about electrical issues a lot, so I want to eliminate this as a variable.  I have my battery sitting up under a custom seat, and I think fitment will not be an issue.  However, maybe I try out the new coil first and see if that does it.

My ignition switch has been on the fritz for years.  It is better than before with the resolder I recently did, but in the off condition it is still letting 1.5v through.  And in the on position, I am losing about 1.x volts at the switch itself, which is 10% of my battery power.

There is a dealer who carries Enfields not too far from where I work so I'll give them a call and see if they have the green TCI and Ignition switch in stock.  I already have the green TCI, but it's cheap enough to replace, and worth it to me for piece of mind. 

There are replacement wiring harnesses available on ebay and amazon, but the sellers look suspect, and I don't want to get something that's worse than the OEM harness (!).  I don't have the time or knowledge to rewire one by hand though, so maybe if the component replacements don't do it, that might have to be my next plan of attack.  I do have some friends with some electrical know-how, so perhaps they would be up for digging into the harness on a weekend with me.

Honestly I have spent next to no money on maintaining this bike besides oil and a few replacement parts along the way.  Sinking a couple hundred into it right now is a drop in the bucket compared to buying a new modern motorcycle.  Plus I love this Enfield and I have poured my heart into it for the past 8 or 9 years, even if it hasn't always returned the favor.  I'll do everything in my power to get it running reliably (to use as a daily commuter).  If by January I haven't reached that point, maybe then I'll have to take it off of registration and insurance, buy a new japanese bike, and keep the enfield as a fixer-upper.

Tooseevee, I will look back on your build/troubleshooting threads to read up on all the information that led you to your current equipment selection.

Wish me luck, Gurus.  Advice is always welcome.  Thanks and cheers.

Chuck


tooseevee

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Reply #27 on: August 20, 2018, 07:47:57 am
Thanks again for the info!

I was penning this message as you responded.  Sorry for the rapid fire but I am emotionally distressed by my motorcycle at the moment.

In retrospect I think my tiny battery has to go.  I think I'm going to replace everything that can easily be replaced, and hope that fixes it...  The plan is to eliminate all possible variables, and so far that includes battery, ignition switch, coil, plug cable, and TCI box. 

I'm considering the MB7BB 12v 9ah battery since it's only a half-inch wider than the 7ah.  The 2.4ah has been fine for my kickstart, but I do complain about electrical issues a lot, so I want to eliminate this as a variable.  I have my battery sitting up under a custom seat, and I think fitment will not be an issue.  However, maybe I try out the new coil first and see if that does it.

My ignition switch has been on the fritz for years.  It is better than before with the resolder I recently did, but in the off condition it is still letting 1.5v through.  And in the on position, I am losing about 1.x volts at the switch itself, which is 10% of my battery power.

There is a dealer who carries Enfields not too far from where I work so I'll give them a call and see if they have the green TCI and Ignition switch in stock.  I already have the green TCI, but it's cheap enough to replace, and worth it to me for piece of mind. 

There are replacement wiring harnesses available on ebay and amazon, but the sellers look suspect, and I don't want to get something that's worse than the OEM harness (!).  I don't have the time or knowledge to rewire one by hand though, so maybe if the component replacements don't do it, that might have to be my next plan of attack.  I do have some friends with some electrical know-how, so perhaps they would be up for digging into the harness on a weekend with me.

Honestly I have spent next to no money on maintaining this bike besides oil and a few replacement parts along the way.  Sinking a couple hundred into it right now is a drop in the bucket compared to buying a new modern motorcycle.  Plus I love this Enfield and I have poured my heart into it for the past 8 or 9 years, even if it hasn't always returned the favor.  I'll do everything in my power to get it running reliably (to use as a daily commuter).  If by January I haven't reached that point, maybe then I'll have to take it off of registration and insurance, buy a new japanese bike, and keep the enfield as a fixer-upper.

Tooseevee, I will look back on your build/troubleshooting threads to read up on all the information that led you to your current equipment selection.

Wish me luck, Gurus.  Advice is always welcome.  Thanks and cheers.

Chuck

          My only suggestion might be to hold off on the new green TCI until the last. They are so horribly expensive and everything I've read here (and other places) say that these things are pretty bullet-proof and virtually last forever. Everything is embedded in a solid block of epoxy.
2008 AVL Classic.Extensive head work by Ace.Ace canister/TM32/Ace manifold.Small open bottle/hot tube removed.Pertronix Coil.Bobber seat.Fed mandates removed.Battery in right side case.Decomp&all doodads removed.'30s Lucas taillight/7" headlight.


Superchuck

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Reply #28 on: August 20, 2018, 08:34:04 am
Ok, thank you... I will happily do as you suggest.

Fingers crossed I'm rolling in no time!
Chuck


tooseevee

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Reply #29 on: August 20, 2018, 11:04:17 am
Ok, thank you... I will happily do as you suggest.

Fingers crossed I'm rolling in no time!
Chuck

       OK - here's what we can do:

       You do what you have to to get it running good with your existing green TCI. If you think it's not running right (or won't start) beCAUSE of the TCI, I still have my black TCI (which works fine, I put it on last season just to see how it ran) which I will send you on loan. You can then see if it runs better (or starts) with the black one.

      That will help you decide if you should pay for a brand new green one. I think Hitchcocks has them at $100. 

        The only difference between the green and the black is that the green one deletes the 1st spark in the rotation sequence to prevent that first early spark from blowing the piston back down before the engine is rotating good enough either by foot or electric.
« Last Edit: August 20, 2018, 11:10:30 am by tooseevee »
2008 AVL Classic.Extensive head work by Ace.Ace canister/TM32/Ace manifold.Small open bottle/hot tube removed.Pertronix Coil.Bobber seat.Fed mandates removed.Battery in right side case.Decomp&all doodads removed.'30s Lucas taillight/7" headlight.