[Jako]

This is exactly why I haven't purchased the plate, although I like the idea, I feared the machining might not be accurate enough for the application ,  specially when I seen the dowels need to be removed for alignment.

[2bikebill]

The extra support of the crankshaft it provides seems like a good idea on its own. If it reduces vibration it's a bonus. As long as all the points mentioned measure the same it ought to be fine. As said, it can always be shimmed out a bit to avoid any pressure on the cams.
Always a bit hit & miss with RE parts, but I still think it's a worthwhile add on.

[wildbill]

all I can say for the $90 outlay I think I got my $$$ worth. ………...so its worth a try

[Blairio]

I think there is enough information to take back to Carberry and raise the question with them. I am an engineer (albeit a software one!), and when faced with a situation like this, we begin with a Problem Statement.

1. It seems that (at least) some Carberry plates are machined differently to the original plates, such that pressure is being applied through the cam gear shims and onto the cam gears themselves.

Also

2. It seems that (at least) some examples of the Carberry plates are machined such that they don't sit exactly square to the crankshaft.

The original design has the cam gear shims serving two purposes:

a. to prevent the cam gears grinding directly on the end plate
b. to reduce end-float of the cam gears

Therefore in removing the shims, are we not trying to cure a fault with a fault?

On point 2 above - that (at least) some examples of the Carberry plates are machined such that they don't sit square to the crankshaft),  the answer appears to be shimming the plate itself between the crankcase and the three 'bosses' the the plate's retaining bolts pass through - with different amounts of shimming at each boss. This shimming could  correct the plate being off axis with the crankshaft.

In fact, this shimming could address both points above. 

Can we assume that the machining for the new bearing is correct, if it is off in other areas?

Perhaps we could come up with figures that show the difference in the machining between the original retaining plate and the Carberry one. If these figures are consistent across examples, then there is a 'batch' machining issue. If they vary, then there is a quality / consistency issue.

I read somewhere that earlier Carberry plates were re-machined from original plates, to take the new bearing. Are these ok? Is it just the anti-vibration plates Carberry manufactures from scratch that are problematic here? 

Questions, questions.

[2bikebill]

Well I'm certainly going to let Hitchcocks know. I'll get an email off to them today, with all the info & a pic of the scoring on the plate. If they then get onto Carberry, it may actually have an effect.
If they get back to me, I'll pass it on here.

[Rattlebattle]

My initial thought when reading about the Carberry VR plate was that it's snake oil. Presumably a lot of thought went into the original design of the UCE (and IIRC it wasn't an Indian design). I have always maintained that the degree of vibration is affected by how well, (or badly as often seems to be the case) the engine is assembled at the factory. Wildbill can confirm how much they differ. To me the proper answer is this: If you have an engine that is pretty smooth and has no real issues, leave it alone. The bottom end has a pretty good reputation for longevity. If, like me, you have a real shaker stop p*ssing around with miracle cures and get the engine rebuilt properly so that you then have a smooth engine. I wish I hadn't bothered with the Carberry. It can stay there as mine doesn't interfere with the cam clearance, but really I cannot recommend them. I think it's an answer to a question nobody actually asked ie where is the evidence that the supposed crank overhang affects the life of the timing side main bearing? Just saying. we all have views on this and that's fine.

[2bikebill]

Fair points. I have wondered in my more cynical moments whether the Carberry plate is really just a way of raising funds for the main Carberry business of building motorbikes...
Good wheeze.
Just speculating here you understand.... 

[Blairio]

I have just had a look at my Carberry plate and measured the height of the three boss's the bolts pass through, off the machined surface the cam gears (and their shims) will sit against. It is 2mm in each case, so generally machining on my plate looks to be correct - or at least even! I won't know what the same measurement is on the current plate until I remove it. Hopefully it will be the same. if it is more, then I have some .25mm stainless steel disk brake shims on order. I'll compensate with those.

[2bikebill]

Good to hear.
I've just sent a detailed email to Hitchcocks. Looking forward to hearing their thoughts.

Have you seen the vid of Paul Carberry fitting the plate? As he's fitting the bearing to the shaft, he says "this one's good".  Infer what you will...

[Rattlebattle]

Hmm. Is it just me or does he look a bit shifty? Never seems to look directly into the camera...

[2bikebill]

I've had a reply from Allan at Hitchcocks, who has asked me to return the plate for inspection, with a view to resolving the problem. He's forwarded a copy of my letter to the manufacturers for their comments.

He also says - The plate is something we have been testing on our own bike for some time with positive results. Obviously, the plate should not be “clamping” up against the cams when tightened and the cams should always have a small amount of end float present.

I'll update as & when...

[Blairio]

I've had a reply from Allan at Hitchcocks, who has asked me to return the plate for inspection, with a view to resolving the problem. He's forwarded a copy of my letter to the manufacturers for their comments.

He also says - The plate is something we have been testing on our own bike for some time with positive results. Obviously, the plate should not be “clamping” up against the cams when tightened and the cams should always have a small amount of end float present.

I'll update as & when...

That is good progress, and re-enforces the thinking that the cam gear shims should remain in place when the new plate is fitted. On the original plate did you measure the distance from the machined surface (the one facing the cam gears) to the surface of the boss's the mounting bolts run through? If so, was it 2mm?

Cheers,

Blairio

[2bikebill]

Just measured it, yes it's 2mm.
On the larger surface, the exhaust cam side where the shim was missing, there is light scoring indicating the original plate was also hard up against the cams. It's not as deep as the scoring on the Carberry plate, and is even, so at least the old one is flat.
And yes, without the shims it's grinding metal in there!
I do have Hitchcocks performance cams fitted, it's possible they may vary by a couple of thou from the stock cams, but unlikely I think. Might be worth shimming behind the bolts just to be sure.
I'll be taking the Carberry off yet again this weekend for posting to Mr H. I can do the job blindfolded by now...  Gasket's holding up well 

[ace.cafe]

I am wondering if perhaps the large ignition wheel is off balance or something like that?

If the crank runs true, there should be no need for any outboard bearing. But if that large ignition wheel is off balance,  that could induce an issue.

Anyone looked into that?

[2bikebill]

It's a thought, and could account for some bikes being shakier than others I guess. Mine doesn't shake much at all, I just liked the idea of the extra support on the crank - thinking about that heavy forged 535 piston in there.
It's just had a new big end and con rod too, so I'm pretty sure everything's sound in there otherwise.
It's more that I just like fettling my bike - RE is the kind of bike that encourages it don't you think? I never touch the Guzzi, except the basic maintenance 
Because I took the Carberry plate off to compare the ride to the original plate, I discovered it was pressing against the cams - then it became an interesting project to put things right.

Hey, I retired from the working life last year, and football bores the arse off me. What else am I going to do...