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Author Topic: Tax and insurance grouping  (Read 870 times)

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Mick Bailey

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on: June 02, 2018, 06:27:23 am
A really annoying thing about the Himalayan is the capacity places it in a higher tax and insurance bracket here in the UK. The higher rate applies to vehicles of 401cc-600cc. This may apply elsewhere in the world, hence the reason for so many machines being offered in sub-400cc capacity (as were many Japanese home market bikes). A slight decrease in capacity could have easily been made up for elsewhere in terms of power and torque. Maybe the UK market isn't a consideration and the sales are targeted towards maybe the US. What's the taxation and insurance like elsewhere?


Richard230

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Reply #1 on: June 02, 2018, 08:38:01 am
In the U.S. taxes are paid based upon the cost of the vehicle and not its engine size or how fast it can go.

Insurance seems to be related to the name of the vehicle.  A plain number and name generate lower rates than having an "S", "SR", "R", or "RR" in the title.  You also don't want a bike powered by a "turbo".  Engine size doesn't seem to have nearly as much significance when insurance underwriters determine their premiums. My guess is that they also read motorcycle magazine reviews to see how many wheelies are photographed for each bike being reviewed.  :o The more wheelies and track photos, the more concern they have. Then they use that information, along with mental gymnastics to perform a thought-experiment to determine what type of person would purchase that type of motorcycle and base their premiums on how risky of a rider that person might be and what monetary payouts might have to be made by the insurance company to insure that person.  ::)

Under that theory, which is the result of owning and insuring 44 motorcycles, the Himalayan should receive very low premiums in the U.S.  As an example, my 2005 Triumph Bonneville has a $250K/$500K third-party liability-only insurance policy for which I only pay $36 a year. (I might add that the first electric motorcycle that I bought in 2009 with the same insurance that year only cost $5 for a year.  Each year since then my electric motorcycle premium has been increasing and is now up to $96 a year - more than I pay for my 2016 BMW R1200RS.  ??? )
2011 Royal Enfield B5 500, 2018 16.6 kWh Zero S, 2016 BMW R1200RS, 2009 BMW F650GS, 2005 Triumph Bonneville T-100, 2002 Yamaha FZ1


Merrill

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Reply #2 on: June 02, 2018, 11:39:39 am
here in the USA we are not so structured,  when the government or insurance ( getting hard to tell’em appart) want more revenue they simply raise the
Tax/Rates at which time we cringe and shovel more Money to them.......
........ it’s tolerated being classified as a nonviolent crime........


hpwaco

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Reply #3 on: June 02, 2018, 08:42:57 pm
Richard230,   what state are you in?  Here in Texas the required mandatory minimum liability is about 1/4 of what you mentioned and costs me 3x what you said that you pay.   Included in that price is the cost of mandatory PASSENGER  LIABILITY which we are also required by the state to carry!


Richard230

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Reply #4 on: June 03, 2018, 07:47:23 am
Richard230,   what state are you in?  Here in Texas the required mandatory minimum liability is about 1/4 of what you mentioned and costs me 3x what you said that you pay.   Included in that price is the cost of mandatory PASSENGER  LIABILITY which we are also required by the state to carry!

I am in the great state of the People's Republic of Kalifornia, where the only vehicle insurance required is either a $10K bond or something like $15K/$30K liability insurance. No passenger liability is required, or typically offered in a motorcycle insurance policy unless you ask for it and pay an additional fee.  Of course, none of these insurance requirements apply if you are a sympathetic "undocumented" immigrant and need a car to get to your job or to visit your relatives - or for any other reason.   ::)  (If you need a current registration sticker for your "undocumented" vehicle, you can always use a hair dryer and peel one off of someone else's car and put it on your stolen license plate. And if you ever get in an accident, you just drive off if you can, or run off into the weeds and leave the car there and head for Texas.)  :o

In my case, I have a home and other assets to protect, which is why I carry a much higher liability insurance policy than legally required.
2011 Royal Enfield B5 500, 2018 16.6 kWh Zero S, 2016 BMW R1200RS, 2009 BMW F650GS, 2005 Triumph Bonneville T-100, 2002 Yamaha FZ1


Fragman

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Reply #5 on: June 03, 2018, 08:08:34 pm
In BC here, we get stuck in the 400-750 cc class. Total fooking gouge! I could go to me dealer right now & grab a Husqvarna 401 Vitpillen(Only 375cc displacement.) that makes near double the horsepower of me C5 and weighs a tad over 300lbs. I'd be in the lower price bracket insurance wise, but the wee Husky would be far too uncomfortable at any distance fer me. Plus it ain't beautiful in the classic sense.

I'll gladly stick with me C5 fer now. ;)
Nothing better than a nice putt on an RE.
It's a serene way to travel at an unhurried pace.

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wildbill

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Reply #6 on: June 04, 2018, 08:24:16 am
I think if you guys lived in aust- you'd have something to worry about...LOL we get hit hard in all directions …….just on 3 cars and a bike I am paying on yearly rego and insurance an easy $5000 ;but saying that I have a choice ….pay or get rid of them ::)
so far I choose to pay  ;)
 
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Carlsberg Wordsworth

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Reply #7 on: June 05, 2018, 04:04:09 pm
I'll admit this has niggled me. Obviously shouldn't stop a purchase but it's a box I'd liked to have ticked when I was considering one.

Although I've got a couple of 500cc bikes I'd keep the Enfield for Sundays, possibly sell the other and have been keeping an eye on low cc practical scooters tbh.

Still got to do a Himalayan test ride, just to scratch that itch.


dickim

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Reply #8 on: June 28, 2018, 05:16:27 am
Agree with Bill on that one - here in Perth (Australia) $99 per vehicle surcharge to insure those who don't bother with Registration or Insurance !!!!!!! so I can only drive / ride one vehicle at a time but $396 extra in case someone who doesn't pay anything becomes disabled....Hmmm seems (Censored)  >:( and really feel for farmers with every vehicle, trailer, bike, quad hit !!!!!!


tooseevee

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Reply #9 on: July 02, 2018, 07:42:23 am
I am in the great state of the People's Republic of Kalifornia, where the only vehicle insurance required is either a $10K bond or something like $15K/$30K liability insurance. No passenger liability is required, or typically offered in a motorcycle insurance policy unless you ask for it and pay an additional fee.  Of course, none of these insurance requirements apply if you are a sympathetic "undocumented" immigrant and need a car to get to your job or to visit your relatives - or for any other reason.   ::)  (If you need a current registration sticker for your "undocumented" vehicle, you can always use a hair dryer and peel one off of someone else's car and put it on your stolen license plate. And if you ever get in an accident, you just drive off if you can, or run off into the weeds and leave the car there and head for Texas.)  :o

In my case, I have a home and other assets to protect, which is why I carry a much higher liability insurance policy than legally required.

            I carry enough liability here in Progressive Democrat controlled sanctuary city/state Rhode Island to prevent some illegal alien if he runs over me in his unregistered car with the front plate from some other car on the rear of the car he's driving from owning the house I've spent 30 years of my life building, repairing, upgrading & maintaining, etc., after a crew of victim lawyers takes his case on on a contingency basis which could bankrupt me before the case ever goes to trial.

           The motorcycle rider ALLways seems to be at fault from the get-go in RI and mostly all you hear about an accident on the "news" is whether or not he/she was wearing a helmet in a state where it is NOT the law. Even hit from behind. While stopped!  Or obviously left-turned by somebody who says "Oh, I didn't see him". OK, you're excused. Go home. We'll scrape the guy off your car and clean it for you.

            My '08 RE is worth $00.00 as far as town personal property tax goes. My insurance is around $50 a year. My last registration (license plate) was $40.50 for two years.

             A favorite trick in RI, which is a two-plate state, is to use the front plate from one car on the rear of another. And the "year" stickers are also easy to steal with a gentle touch & a hair drier. Emissions testing is also a huge corrupt scam that has cost the taxpayers millions of dollars over the years and has been a huge corrupt scam since the '70s and '80s.

            The word here, as everywhere now, is when in an accident, if possible, is just Run Away. Then IF the car is registered to you, call it in stolen ASAP. The lawyers are waiting in the wings to protect ANY kind of a creep in a car. The ads are everywhere, even billboards. We have people in RI who have lost their license upwards of a dozen times and still get it back. Recently a woman finally killed 4 people on her 19th DUI.

            If you don't have uninsured motorist insurance in RI you are idiot waiting to be bankrupted & caused to lose everything by lawyers protecting some poor "victim" of something.

             Sorry to rant, but the whole thing is a clusterfuck and nothing's getting fixed. Or improved. And isn't GOing to be. The East Coast is worse or at least just as bad as lunatic California now. 
« Last Edit: July 02, 2018, 07:46:58 am by tooseevee »
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Devante

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Reply #10 on: July 02, 2018, 03:22:34 pm
California, USA here.

My insurance broker told me the engine size is probably the main thing that determines cost.
.x[ Devante ]x.

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Arizoni

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Reply #11 on: July 03, 2018, 12:59:27 pm
2CV

I don't know about Rhode Island but here in Arizona, "uninsured motorist" insurance coverage doesn't protect a person from being sued, unless the person doing the suing is your passenger.

That's because, "uninsured motorist" insurance here only pays for medical coverage to a passenger in your car if your car is in an accident with a person who doesn't have insurance and, one of your passengers is injured.

How do I know this?
Because, shortly after I got married, my wife and I were driving home from a movie when a person without insurance on his car drove out of a side street in front of us without stopping.

I couldn't avoid him and it happened so suddenly I barely had time to hit the brakes.

There was no doubt about who was at fault because a cop was behind me and saw the whole thing.

Anyway, when I found that the guy didn't have any insurance at all, the next day I called my insurance agent.
I told him what had happened, the name of the guy in the other car and the police report number and said,
"How long do I have to wait to get my car fixed with the uninsured motorist insurance coverage I have?"

He answered, "Was anyone in your car injured?"
I said, "Only my wife and all that happened to her was she hit her forehead on the rear view mirror and got a little cut.  Nothing serious."

That's when he lowered the boom on me.

Said he, "Well, the only insurance you have is liability and uninsured motorist coverage. You don't have coverage to fix your car because you didn't buy "collision coverage".  The uninsured motorist insurance only pays for injuries to passengers in your car if the other driver doesn't have any insurance.  It doesn't cover any injury's you personally might have suffered in the accident and in this case, because the only injury is to your wife and she doesn't require any medical assistance, it will pay you nothing."

Now, I still buy uninsured motorist insurance coverage for my cars because I have other people riding with me but on my motorcycle, since I never carry a passenger on my motorcycle, I do not have it.

The whole thing pissed me off immensely so when it came time to renew my car insurance I switched to a different company.
Their uninsured motorists insurance is the same thing but I didn't want my old company to get another dime from me after all the fun I had.  >:(

It would be a good idea for anyone with uninsured motorists insurance to call their agent and ask about what it actually covers.
You might find that you can drop that coverage and save some money. :)
« Last Edit: July 03, 2018, 01:04:02 pm by Arizoni »
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suitcasejefferson

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Reply #12 on: July 12, 2018, 09:36:13 am
I live in AZ, and all I have is minimum liability on the bikes. I have above minimum on the cars, but nothing else. None of the cars are worth insuring, I could lose one and still be ahead due to not having paid the ridiculous premiums they charge here for comprehensive, collision, and underinsured and uninsured motorist. I don't carry passengers on my bikes, and I'm very picky about who I carry in my cars. Basically my 2 kids and that's it. They both have medical insurance. Insurance is a huge scam. But the way I do it, it's not expensive. Minimum liability on the Enfield is less than $40 a year. I do get a multi bike discount, I have 6 bikes insured with the same company.
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