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Author Topic: C5 cylinder upgrade?  (Read 752 times)

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Bmadd34

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on: May 16, 2018, 09:34:29 am
Could one simply replace the Cylinder and piston on a C5 to one from a CGT 535?
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gashousegorilla

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Reply #1 on: May 16, 2018, 05:03:15 pm
 No, I do not think so... The 535 GT has a larger cylinder sleeve then the 500 UCE's.   The opening in the case half's of the 500's would be too small to accept the 535 cylinder .  The bottom of the cylinder , below the fins , is also supported around the sides of the cylinder with a couple or rings cast into the case half's.     It could be done... but you'd have to split the case and have the opening and those cast in rings opened up.
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WillW

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Reply #2 on: May 17, 2018, 02:25:23 pm
Hitchcocks sell a 535cc performance upgrade kit for the C5, & G5.
They also now have a 612cc kit too.
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Bmadd34

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Reply #3 on: May 17, 2018, 03:06:12 pm
Well, the Hitchcocks kit is $614.62 plus postage http://accessories.hitchcocksmotorcycles.com/accessory-shop/EFI-MODELS-BIG-BORE-KIT-AND-FORGED-PISTON/21603. While the cylinder and piston for the Continental GT can be had for $290.00 free shipping https://www.ebay.com/itm/Royal-Enfield-GT-Continental-535-Cylinder-Barrel-Piston-Assembly/263222563840?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649. That's about a $380.00 difference for essentially the exact same parts. So, could someone explain....
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ace.cafe

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Reply #4 on: May 17, 2018, 03:44:05 pm
The pistons are not the same. Hitchcocks is forged flattop, RE is cast dish.

Also, in the Hitchcocks kit, the cylinder is honed to fit . The India kit isn't fitted, it needs clearance honing. These things are not just drop in parts. Pistons always need honing to fit. The Hitchcocks kit specifies that it is a matched pair.

When purchasing parts from India,  there is no assurance that the parts are genuine RE, regardless of appearance or packaging.
« Last Edit: May 17, 2018, 03:47:21 pm by ace.cafe »


Jako

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Reply #5 on: May 17, 2018, 04:37:52 pm
According to Hitchcock's the 500 barrel can be safely bored to take the 535 piston.
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gashousegorilla

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Reply #6 on: May 17, 2018, 08:42:09 pm
Well, the Hitchcocks kit is $614.62 plus postage http://accessories.hitchcocksmotorcycles.com/accessory-shop/EFI-MODELS-BIG-BORE-KIT-AND-FORGED-PISTON/21603. While the cylinder and piston for the Continental GT can be had for $290.00 free shipping https://www.ebay.com/itm/Royal-Enfield-GT-Continental-535-Cylinder-Barrel-Piston-Assembly/263222563840?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649. That's about a $380.00 difference for essentially the exact same parts. So, could someone explain....

  The GT 535 cylinder and the 500 cylinder are NOT the same.   Again... the GT has a wider cylinder, which will not fit into a 500 case.  They have the same cylinder wall thickness when STOCK.  You can't just plunk a GT 535 cylinder into a 500 case, because the OUTER diameter of the GT's cylinder is bigger then the opening in the 500's case. If you want to turn a 500 into a 535 , you have to overbore the INNER diameter of the 500 cylinder.

 Also.. the GT has a lighter crank, and is or at least should be balanced for that heavier 535  stock cast piston.   The 500 has a heavier crank, with a lighter stock cast piston, and should be balanced for that combination.    What would be the results be, if one were to just put on a heavier stock ,535 cast piston on to the end of that 500 connecting rod without balancing ?    Ummmm......    To me, if I wanted to just go to a 535.   I think it's easier and cheaper and would make more sense ,to just over bore a 500 cylinder and install a 535 piston that weighs the same as a stock 500 piston.  VS  Tearing apart the bottom , machining the case,  re-balancing the crank and etc. , just so I could put in a 535 GT cylinder and barrel ?!   ;D      Forget about eBay or Hitchcocks.... just get a forged 535 piston, that weighs the same as a stock 500 .
« Last Edit: May 17, 2018, 11:23:25 pm by gashousegorilla »
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GSS

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Reply #7 on: May 18, 2018, 05:59:47 am
Or you could simply get the high compression GHG and ScooterBob piston....and add their porting and valve improvements!
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Jako

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Reply #8 on: May 27, 2018, 06:52:28 pm
  The GT 535 cylinder and the 500 cylinder are NOT the same.   Again... the GT has a wider cylinder, which will not fit into a 500 case.  They have the same cylinder wall thickness when STOCK.  You can't just plunk a GT 535 cylinder into a 500 case, because the OUTER diameter of the GT's cylinder is bigger then the opening in the 500's case. If you want to turn a 500 into a 535 , you have to overbore the INNER diameter of the 500 cylinder.

 Also.. the GT has a lighter crank, and is or at least should be balanced for that heavier 535  stock cast piston.   The 500 has a heavier crank, with a lighter stock cast piston, and should be balanced for that combination.    What would be the results be, if one were to just put on a heavier stock ,535 cast piston on to the end of that 500 connecting rod without balancing ?    Ummmm......    To me, if I wanted to just go to a 535.   I think it's easier and cheaper and would make more sense ,to just over bore a 500 cylinder and install a 535 piston that weighs the same as a stock 500 piston.  VS  Tearing apart the bottom , machining the case,  re-balancing the crank and etc. , just so I could put in a 535 GT cylinder and barrel ?!   ;D      Forget about eBay or Hitchcocks.... just get a forged 535 piston, that weighs the same as a stock 500 .

Dan are you 100% sure the outside diameter of the CGT 535 cylinder sleeve is larger then the 500 sleeve ?   After reading your above post I decided to order some CGT base gaskets for a GT project I will be working on  shortly. According to Hitchcock's the same base gasket is used for all EFI engines including 535 CGT .  Possibly the gasket has clearance around the 500 sleeve ?
« Last Edit: May 27, 2018, 07:01:43 pm by Jako »
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Bmadd34

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Reply #9 on: May 27, 2018, 09:50:49 pm
I recon I just find it hard to believe the CGT cylinder will not fit in the case.
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gashousegorilla

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Reply #10 on: May 28, 2018, 07:40:50 pm
Dan are you 100% sure the outside diameter of the CGT 535 cylinder sleeve is larger then the 500 sleeve ?   After reading your above post I decided to order some CGT base gaskets for a GT project I will be working on  shortly. According to Hitchcock's the same base gasket is used for all EFI engines including 535 CGT .  Possibly the gasket has clearance around the 500 sleeve ?

  I would say 95% Dale.  It's been a while since I saw that GT case.  But I just can't see how it can not be a wider OD on that GT Barrel then the 500.  Beside the stuff I mentioned above.  For one... that would leave damn near no meat left in the cylinder for over sized pistons in the future for service.   Secondly... some of them GT Boys in that section, have been saying after they measured the cylinder ,and how they CAN bore it out to a 90 mm.

  And yes... same part number for the base gaskets.  However the OD of the 500 barrel measures at 92 mm, and the ID of the base gasket measures at 96 mm.   So, that is how they are using the same gaskets on both bikes I believe.  BUT,  the part numbers for the left and right case half's of the 500 and GT's ARE different.   And they ARE different from what I have seen..... very similar !  But different.   If your going to have that GT top end apart Dale.... measure that sucker, and lets see what you get as far as the case opening size and OD of the barrel.

   OK,  when you pull a cylinder out, the bottom of it appears unsupported .  Well... it CAN'T be unsupported like that ? Because the bottom of the cylinder would balloon out from running ! You'd wide up with a BIG tapper at the bottom of the cylinder with the piston going up and down in that area .......
« Last Edit: May 28, 2018, 07:57:50 pm by gashousegorilla »
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gashousegorilla

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Reply #11 on: May 28, 2018, 08:02:49 pm
  So how do they support the bottom of that Cylinder ?   Inside the case half's , inside the opening for the cylinder, there are three supports cast in to the case half's....

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gashousegorilla

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Reply #12 on: May 28, 2018, 08:07:22 pm
   And the OD of the 500 cylinder, nestles up against those supports thusly....
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gashousegorilla

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Reply #13 on: May 28, 2018, 08:12:10 pm
  So to me ?    I ain't seeing any other way ,for that GT barrel going into that 500 case, UNLESS that GT Barrel has a skinny arse wall thickness on those GT cylinders .   And I bet they don't... ;D ;)
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Blairio

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Reply #14 on: May 29, 2018, 12:20:37 am
I don't have the mechanical chops of the other contributors here, but would swapping in a 535 barrel & piston not  also require the crankshaft to be rebalanced?  Or by some quirk of fate could the new piston weigh exactly the same as the old one?

As an aside, our fellow member Bmadd34 seems to have had their fair share of mechanical problems with their new bike. Perhaps ironing all those out should take precedence over a 35cc capacity hike.