[gashousegorilla]

hi guys,

thanks for all the comments so far.... Just an update... i didnt get to it for a couple days... my finger had an argument with an angle grinder requiring a trip to the medical centre... nothing a bunch of stitches cant fix...

Did the compression test... Photo attached.

I pulled coil out... the coil end of the plug lead is not a screw post type... looked like it was integral to the coil, so nothing I could do there. Also cut and re attached spark plug cap to ensure good contact.

Starting this morning was still difficult. It eventually started (only using kick) without taking the plug out like usual. Battery voltage while trying to start was about 12.4v.

still open to other ideas... 

  Your compression is not the best.   The spark plug wire connection at the coil APPEARS to be integral to the coil... but it is not.  Or at least up to the 2012 bikes that I have seen.  It's a screw on post type connector . You have pic of it ?  Your battery voltage is weak.. the early UCE at least have a crap charging system, and one will usually find their battery voltage down that low after a ride...especially with the head light on all day.   Use a battery tender religiously, I say.

[gashousegorilla]

Ok... so its been a few days since adjusting the idle correctly, and the problem still persists. Its not as bad, but that might just be because i treated the flooding symptom by adjusting the idle air screw.

It still looks like it has a weak spark.... I'm thinking it may be voltage related... but the battery shows about 12.5v.... might drop to 12.4v when the key is turned. when i connect my battery charger while i kick start it, the situation seems to be better - and starting is easier. The charger would bump up the battery voltage a couple volts - possible giving a better spark. I haven't kicked it over with the charger connected and plug out to check spark. Would be a 2 person job, as i don't want to use the electric start while the battery charger is connected.

There was a brace/engine mount that goes between the rear fuel tank mounting bolt and the engine. When i took the tank off to check the coil it actually fell out as it broken due to fatigue... i didn't bother putting it back in... and planned to either weld it back together or fabricate a new one in the future. I had a thought this morning that this could be an earth from the frame to the engine?

From the battery there are 2 wires coming from the negative terminal. One thick one going straight to the starter motor (from memory), and a thin one - no idea where that goes. So there is no engine or chassis earth to the battery by the looks of it.

When it starts, it runs great (except for a high idle now). That could be the increased system voltage which when running is up around 14 volts.

Anyway, that's where it is at... still frustrating... I could be barking up the wrong tree here... really interested in your thoughts.

  Your idle is too high now, likely because you adjusted when the engine was too cold.  Adjust the idle only after the bike is at operating temp.   Wait till the rocker cover feel like you are holding a hot cup of coffee, before you adjust.   Your battery is still weak.  The small black wire at the negative ground connection at the battery is your main ECU ground, and the other one connects to  chassis ground, through the bolt at the starter motor which is ALSO connected to chassis ground.   If you look at the starter , you will notice  separate positive and negative wires... The negative ones goes directly to the battery.

[SimonT]

  Your compression is not the best.   The spark plug wire connection at the coil APPEARS to be integral to the coil... but it is not.  Or at least up to the 2012 bikes that I have seen.  It's a screw on post type connector . You have pic of it ?  Your battery voltage is weak.. the early UCE at least have a crap charging system, and one will usually find their battery voltage down that low after a ride...especially with the head light on all day.   Use a battery tender religiously, I say.

Compression was at 110psi.
ill check the coil again... wish i took a photo when it was out. Bought the bike in 2011, so probs a 2010 model.
is 12.4v weak voltage?
I have noticed the problem is exacerbated after running with the headlight on.

I haven't had issues like this before, and this is not the first battery ive had... i think this is battery number 3... the first 2 have failed differently. With previous battery failures, bike usually started, but hesitated or conked out when riding.

[SimonT]

  Your idle is too high now, likely because you adjusted when the engine was too cold.  Adjust the idle only after the bike is at operating temp.   Wait till the rocker cover feel like you are holding a hot cup of coffee, before you adjust.   Your battery is still weak.  The small black wire at the negative ground connection at the battery is your main ECU ground, and the other one connects to  chassis ground, through the bolt at the starter motor which is ALSO connected to chassis ground.   If you look at the starter , you will notice  separate positive and negative wires... The negative ones goes directly to the battery.

Yep idle is too high - dont think that would still cause the hard start though, right?
Will adjust back anyway.

What should the resting battery voltage be?

[gashousegorilla]

Compression was at 110psi.
ill check the coil again... wish i took a photo when it was out. Bought the bike in 2011, so probs a 2010 model.
is 12.4v weak voltage?
I have noticed the problem is exacerbated after running with the headlight on.

I haven't had issues like this before, and this is not the first battery ive had... i think this is battery number 3... the first 2 have failed differently. With previous battery failures, bike usually started, but hesitated or conked out when riding.

  Your compression is low, because you may be in need of some top end work in the future because of your millage ? OR your auto decomp is acting up  ?   But I have seen bikes with way more miles then yours that were fine.   Could just be carbon between the valves and seats, and your not getting a good seal ?   The only way to know what your true compression reading is, would be to remove the auto decomp and check it that way.   Which is a pain in the ass... I know.

  A fully charged battery should read at least 12.8 v... you are probably down to around 50-75 % charged now.  I would also check your charging system... But I bet it is as good as it gets now.   Put your volt meter  across the battery  at idle , and then rev the bike up to around 3-4000 rpms .  See what your voltage is at idle and make sure that it goes up around 14 v when you rev it.

 And if it's 2010 bike... I'd be shocked if your can't remove that spark plug wire from the coil.    i'd leave it be for now though.    Charge your battery... and keep it charged ! Then adjust your idle and see how it goes.

 

Yep idle is too high - dont think that would still cause the hard start though, right?
Will adjust back anyway.

What should the resting battery voltage be?

   I doubt it. ...

[SimonT]

  Your compression is low, because you may be in need of some top end work in the future because of your millage ? OR your auto decomp is acting up  ?   But I have seen bikes with way more miles then yours that were fine.   Could just be carbon between the valves and seats, and your not getting a good seal ?   The only way to know what your true compression reading is, would be to remove the auto decomp and check it that way.   Which is a pain in the ass... I know.

  A fully charged battery should read at least 12.8 v... you are probably down to around 50-75 % charged now.  I would also check your charging system... But I bet it is as good as it gets now.   Put your volt meter  across the battery  at idle , and then rev the bike up to around 3-4000 rpms .  See what your voltage is at idle and make sure that it goes up around 14 v when you rev it.

 And if it's 2010 bike... I'd be shocked if your can't remove that spark plug wire from the coil.    i'd leave it be for now though.    Charge your battery... and keep it charged ! Then adjust your idle and see how it goes.

Thanks mate.
I wouldn't know how to remove the auto decomp. Any links on here? Not even sure what it does, or if there would be benefit to removing.
Ive got 40,000km (about 25,000 miles). I ride it a bit, but i wouldn't have thought that was excessive... definitely wouldn't expect this to be rebuild territory.

Ill try chucking the battery on charge at nights... not sure its the charging systems fault (could be though). Might be the battery itself.

From memory, idle voltage was up around 14v.

Thanks for your patience!!

[gashousegorilla]

Thanks mate.
I wouldn't know how to remove the auto decomp. Any links on here? Not even sure what it does, or if there would be benefit to removing.
Ive got 40,000km (about 25,000 miles). I ride it a bit, but i wouldn't have thought that was excessive... definitely wouldn't expect this to be rebuild territory.

Ill try chucking the battery on charge at nights... not sure its the charging systems fault (could be though). Might be the battery itself.

From memory, idle voltage was up around 14v.

Thanks for your patience!!

 If you are seeing 14v AT IDLE ?     That is kinda high... rev the bike up and see that it's does't go over 15 V's.   If it does ?   It could be that your R/R unit is shot, and you are cooking that battery.

  The auto-deflomp  ,  when and if it is working correctly, will release a bit of cylinder pressure around TDC. This makes the bike a little easier to kick start... And that is all.  It's located on the exhaust cam.  I would try the other stuff first, then dig into the side cover to pull it out later if you must.

[SimonT]

eek. okies... will check out voltages again tonight if i can.

Probably best not to rely on my memory.

Will get that high idle down first though 

[gashousegorilla]

   You know ... thinking about it?  Your 14V volts  at idle MAY just be because you set your idle Crazy TOO high.    But make sure by reving the bike up first... LOL !   If your charging system is OK, and your not putting out too much or too little voltage.  Then ... leave your meter hooked up to the battery while you adjust your idle.  Set the idle speed so that  you can see at least 12.8 v at the battery at idle.  This should help keep the battery charged better while you ride.     Your idle will be on the higher side though... but it won't hurt nothing.     If you adjust the idle this way with the headlight on ?  You will likely find that the idle will be even higher to maintain that 12.8 volts.

[SimonT]

hehe might be 

will find out and let you know.

ill take all that on board

[Freddy1]

It does not seem to me an electrical problem (battery or an ignition spark).

This could be the dirty injector that does not pulverize the fuel well.

I would try to clean the injector.

[Narada]

That small negative wire is the ground, and an infamous source of many Enfield woes.

The copper breaks inside the insulation and your ground connection comes and goes unpredictably causing many runability problems.

I believe the common fix is just to cut it off at the end and put a new terminal on. It's worth doing even if it hasn't failed yet.

Btw, I ground my right index finger knuckle (at the hand joint) last week too! Working at the bench grinder without a glove, and part slipped, doh!  Keeping a band aid on it with neosporin at all times. 

[Guaire]

Oh cool man... what coil is it?

DynaTek DC10-1
Spark plug wires 2104-0266

http://www.dynaonline.com/products/accessories/dyna-coils.aspx

https://www.z1enterprises.com/dyna-single-output-50-ohm-coils-pair-dc10-1.html

[Arizoni]

For what it's worth, the compression listed in my UCE Service Manual on page 03-24 says the average compression from three tests with the throttle wide open should be 100 +/- 10 PSI.
This reading accounts for the presence of the automatic decompression device on the exhaust cam.

[gashousegorilla]

For what it's worth, the compression listed in my UCE Service Manual on page 03-24 says the average compression from three tests with the throttle wide open should be 100 +/- 10 PSI.
This reading accounts for the presence of the automatic decompression device on the exhaust cam.

  Yup... and that is doing a compression test using the kick starter.   I believe Simon tested using the starter motor.  If he did,  his number should be much higher.

  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=etHvHlPCQgU


    Even using the starter motor like in the video here... the effects of the auto decomp are still there with a reading of 142 PSI.  This particular motor showed reading on the 160's , with auto decomp removed.  50 k miles on the clock ... and it showed more HP then it did when it was new .