[Haggis]

[Haggis]

Do not move the one with yellow paint near the cables.

[SimonT]

seriously??? The one near the throttle cable?? That's the one I adjusted... could that be the issue??
i didn't change it much.

[gashousegorilla]

seriously??? The one near the throttle cable?? That's the one I adjusted... could that be the issue??
i didn't change it much.

 Yes it will !  Adjust idle ONLY at the big brass screw on top.  That screw with the lock nut adjusts your throttle plate position. Which in turn effects the throttle position sensor voltage, which is mounted to the throttle plate shaft, on the other side of the throttle body.... throttle sensor voltage effects fueling,   Throttle plate position will also effect how much air is getting by that nearly closed throttle plate at start up.  There is also a Map sensor down stream of that throttle plate, which is also going to be effected by how much air flow there is .   Basically... that's why they put YELLOW paint on it as a warning not to mess with it after it is set ! 

  I  think I am remembering the spec's on that throttle plate as 5 degree's cracked open  ?    Anyway.. what I would do , is to back probe that throttle position sensor and hook a multi meter to the ground wire and the signal wire .      The stock voltage is .6v    See what voltage you have there and how far you are off.  Then readjust that screw and lock nut to .6 v  on your meter.  Then adjust the idle as needed with the BIG brass screw.

[SimonT]

Bah... i feel like a goose!!

i wouldn't think it would make that much difference... i would only have moved it something like 1/4 of a turn...

To measure voltage across TPS, i assume ignition key on, but not started?

[gashousegorilla]

  Shit happens , Iv'e done worse ?  Yes... key on, kill switch set to the run position. 

[Arizoni]

I might have missed it but I just searched thru my Repair Manual for anything that would tell us how to reset the  screw for the throttle plate.

The only thing I found was,

"DO NOT adjust the throttle stop screw on the side of the throttle body unless you are using the factory software to recalibrate the base throttle opening."

Hopefully, Vince found out how to do it when he was selling Royal Enfields?
It would be useful to anyone who has made the mistake of messing with it.

[SimonT]

  Shit happens , Iv'e done worse ?  Yes... key on, kill switch set to the run position.

Thanks man... will try tonight.

[gashousegorilla]

  Here is one of awesome Singh's  video's on the matter.   Again... you are looking for .6 v when the throttle is CLOSED.  That's when you are at idle.   And BTW... that bike should start without any needed throttle when it's set up right.  Only on the coldest days should you need to give it a little by-starter lever action..

 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TiX8oFtYZls

[SimonT]

Awesome video, will be very helpful.

[SimonT]

so just tested it all....

mine didnt have that blob of yellow paint on it. does that make it better? 

Initial reading - 0.619v (still in tolerance according to the video...just).
Adjusted it back to - 0.599v
input voltage - 4.99v.

Started fine, but it was still hot from my ride home. Will see how it starts up later on when it cools down. Fingers crossed!!

[gashousegorilla]

  Yeah.. your excused then.

 The higher the TPS voltage, the richer the air fuel ratio will be.   Adjusting the the throttle plate opening will adjust not only the amount of air going into the motor, but also the amount of fuel.  The big brass idle AIR screw, will only adjust the amount of air that goes around the throttle plate.  So, by you adjusting the throttle plate opening... it looks like you HAD adjusted it further open... you sent a bit more fuel in there then needed at a cold start.  Maybe flooding it a bit.  So I would leave it where you have it now, and then adjust the idle as needed at the big brass screw.

  BTW, the TPS Voltage can be adjusted independently from the throttle plate.  On the other side of the TB.   

 

[SimonT]

Ok... so its been a few days since adjusting the idle correctly, and the problem still persists. Its not as bad, but that might just be because i treated the flooding symptom by adjusting the idle air screw.

It still looks like it has a weak spark.... I'm thinking it may be voltage related... but the battery shows about 12.5v.... might drop to 12.4v when the key is turned. when i connect my battery charger while i kick start it, the situation seems to be better - and starting is easier. The charger would bump up the battery voltage a couple volts - possible giving a better spark. I haven't kicked it over with the charger connected and plug out to check spark. Would be a 2 person job, as i don't want to use the electric start while the battery charger is connected.

There was a brace/engine mount that goes between the rear fuel tank mounting bolt and the engine. When i took the tank off to check the coil it actually fell out as it broken due to fatigue... i didn't bother putting it back in... and planned to either weld it back together or fabricate a new one in the future. I had a thought this morning that this could be an earth from the frame to the engine?

From the battery there are 2 wires coming from the negative terminal. One thick one going straight to the starter motor (from memory), and a thin one - no idea where that goes. So there is no engine or chassis earth to the battery by the looks of it.

When it starts, it runs great (except for a high idle now). That could be the increased system voltage which when running is up around 14 volts.

Anyway, that's where it is at... still frustrating... I could be barking up the wrong tree here... really interested in your thoughts.

[Arizoni]

That brace is called the "head steady" and it is a critical part of the motorcycle.
Without it in place you will notice severe engine vibration.  In fact, many of the complaints about bad vibration by RE riders is due to this part breaking.

IMO, rather than messing around with the original flimsy part you will be way ahead of the game if you go to your local hardware store or scrap metal yard and buy a piece of 1/8" thick X 1/2" or 5/8" wide cold rolled steel bar or plate stock.

While drilling the holes for the thru bolts can be a PITA and often one of the holes will need to be elongated with a round file, once your done and the newly made part is installed you will never have to worry about it again.

[SimonT]

That brace is called the "head steady" and it is a critical part of the motorcycle.
Without it in place you will notice severe engine vibration.  In fact, many of the complaints about bad vibration by RE riders is due to this part breaking.

Yep... it feels more thumpy that's for sure... Its been a slight issue as for the last week I've been riding around with 7 stitches across my right index finger knuckle... Less than comfortable that's for sure.
Ill fab up a new piece. got plenty of steel in the shed - only lacking the time