aboard

Author Topic: Jawa & BSA to return?  (Read 1095 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Arizoni

  • Grand Gearhead
  • *****
  • Posts: 7,020
  • Karma: 2
  • "But it's a dry heat here in Arizona
on: March 14, 2018, 01:40:42 pm
JAWA and BSA are set to return to the market.  Production will start towards the latter part of 2018.

Well, when I say JAWA and BSA it isn't quite what it sounds like.

Mahindra in India now owns the names and is planning on marketing the JAWA motorcycles in India and the BSA motorcycles in the rest of the world.

With the new air quality requirements around the world I'm sure the old JAWA 2 stroke is dead so it will probably be a 4 cycle engine.  :(

Yah.  I know.  The old 2 cycles were a real pain in the ass what with their plug fouling and needing to de-carbonize everything from the piston top to the tip of the exhaust every so often but my nostalgic genes kinda miss the old ring-ding-ding-ding.
It will be interesting to see what these motorcycles will actually look like and even more interesting to find out if they are worth buying.

http://www.financialexpress.com/auto/bike-news/exclusive-mahindra-owned-jawa-bsa-motorcycles-production-to-begin-by-july-2018-royal-enfields-tough-rival-is-finally-coming-back/1095475/?utm_source=quora
Jim
2011 G5 Deluxe
1999 Miata 10th Anniversary


Guaire

  • Grand Gearhead
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,233
  • Karma: 0
Reply #1 on: March 15, 2018, 12:12:19 pm
The Interceptors are scheduled for distribution 'end of year 2018'. Looks like Mahindra will start building theirs about the same time.
  RE has done well in the styling department. A Royal Enfield of today definitely looks like a descendant of the old bikes. We'll see if Mahindra can do the same.
ACE Motors - sales & administration


gizzo

  • Grand Gearhead
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,725
  • Karma: 0
  • Live slow, die whenever
Reply #2 on: March 15, 2018, 11:05:40 pm
What's even the point of getting excited? It's not a Jawa or a BSA. They're long dead and gone. It's just a modern bike with a name hanging off it. Same for Brough Superior, Matchless, Norton, Indian, SWM and the others (Triumph and Enfield are off the hook. The new companies pretty much picked up where the old ones left off). How about building a bike good enough to carry it's own tag and that succeeds on it's own merits? I know, Mahindra doesn't have the same ring to it but at least it'd be honest. Not an Indian company's strong suit.
simon from south Australia
Continental GT
Pantah
Monster
DR250
TRX850
DRZ400SM


Bilgemaster

  • Just some guy
  • Grease Monkey
  • ****
  • Posts: 422
  • Karma: 0
  • 2005 Bullet 500ES in "Mean Green" Military Trim
Reply #3 on: March 16, 2018, 01:50:50 pm
What's even the point of getting excited? It's not a Jawa or a BSA. They're long dead and gone. It's just a modern bike with a name hanging off it. Same for Brough Superior, Matchless, Norton, Indian, SWM and the others (Triumph and Enfield are off the hook. The new companies pretty much picked up where the old ones left off). How about building a bike good enough to carry it's own tag and that succeeds on it's own merits? I know, Mahindra doesn't have the same ring to it but at least it'd be honest. Not an Indian company's strong suit.

I guess it doesn't really help that anagrams for "Mahindra BSA" include "a sham brand, I" or "I ran bad sham."

I had a later (maybe '69 or '70?) BSA B44 Victor Special 441cc single, but don't really miss it and don't exactly yearn for another.  It did that scandalously common drive shaft eating the wiring harness trick common to its breed of that twilight era because BSA in its wisdom decided to save maybe 75¢ per unit by using a bushing on the drive side instead of a proper bearing, with the result that the bushing would inevitably oval out enough for the drive shaft to wobble its attached rotor against the stator, grab it and spin it around yanking the whole wiring into the primary chaincase. They KNEW it would happen, but just didn' t care. They deserved to perish. The good news is that I actually sold that stricken BSA for more than I'd paid for it only a couple years before. It was kind of pretty in its goofy way--OK for tearing around town in Austin, Texas, but utterly useless for touring of any sort over even 50 mph. Mine looked like this one, with the squared-off cylinder barrel:



On a good day I might give a promising old '50s to early-mid '60s twin of theirs a home if the price were truly stellar. They were a bit stodgy and dumpy-looking and utilitarian compared to their sleek and sexy Norton or Triumph competitors of the day, but still made "rugged" and got you down the tarmac "proper." I'm not really a "Gold Star" hot single ton-up kinda guy--never have been, really. And I do believe I've already found my ideal single in my 2005 Royal Enfield "Military".  Bottom line from personal experience is that I doubt I'd touch any BSA made after '67 with so much as a barge pole. Still, I wish those Mahindra chaps well with their nostalgia faux-retro market bullshit play à la "Indian" here in the States, and I look forward in idle curiosity to seeing the fruits of it.
« Last Edit: March 16, 2018, 08:47:46 pm by Bilgemaster »
So badass my Enfield's actually illegal  in India.


Stanley

  • Scooter
  • **
  • Posts: 86
  • Karma: 0
Reply #4 on: March 17, 2018, 12:09:06 pm
That  Victim looks just like mine did except mine had an airfilter. I rode the hell out of it in the desert and on the freeways. Light, reliable and quick, it was inspiration to buy a Bullet years later. It let me down just once. All but one lower engine mount bolt disappeared miles from nowhere. I tapped twigs from a manzanita bush into place, lashing them with shoelaces and made it 30 miles home.  I'd love another or an A10 or M20 if it came along.
Jawas remind me of lethargic, oily, heavy, plug fouling mediocrity. Like my bullet, only more so!
It's the right part number so it might fit.


Bilgemaster

  • Just some guy
  • Grease Monkey
  • ****
  • Posts: 422
  • Karma: 0
  • 2005 Bullet 500ES in "Mean Green" Military Trim
Reply #5 on: March 21, 2018, 07:09:08 pm
That  Victim looks just like mine did except mine had an airfilter. I rode the hell out of it in the desert and on the freeways. Light, reliable and quick, it was inspiration to buy a Bullet years later. It let me down just once. All but one lower engine mount bolt disappeared miles from nowhere. I tapped twigs from a manzanita bush into place, lashing them with shoelaces and made it 30 miles home.  I'd love another or an A10 or M20 if it came along.
Jawas remind me of lethargic, oily, heavy, plug fouling mediocrity. Like my bullet, only more so!

I've gotta guess that your autocorrect saw fit to change "Victor" to "Victim"--though it's arguably oddly fitting in my own BSA's case. It was a victim of BSA management's screw-the-customer myopia in its well deserved final days, unforgivably cheaping out in such a way as to knowingly and maliciously sabotage their products. Still, it was an oddly pretty little around-town thumper while it lasted, and like yours, it did give me a taste for those "El Primitivo" biggish 4-stroke singles too. Mine actually did have an air filter. If I have any pictures of it, they're pre-digital in a cigar box somewhere. It may well be that mine had been geared down sprocket-wise by a previous owner for more tractable offroad use, because even 50 mph felt like it was close to redlining it. Absolutely NOT a touring machine, mine. In contrast, my new-to-me 2005 Royal Enfield Bullet 500ES "Military" should be just the ticket for the leisurely type of chuffing around I am looking forward to, assuming I can get her cockamamie crankcase breather rigmarole buttoned down, so it ceases spewing out all my multigrade irregularly from time to time...possibly in concert with certain cycles of the moon, tides or Jersey Shore marathons.

As for Jawas, I never felt one way or the other about them.  I recall having seen way more of them happily sput-sput-sputtering around Britain back in the early '80s than ever here in the Land of the Plastic Spork. Still, the "Socialist Workers Paradise" two-wheeler I always admired yonder, which I cannot recall ever having even seen in the States, was the East German MZ TS250.  Sure, they were sort of dumpy-looking with their irredeemably goofy squared-off hardboiled egg shaped fuel tank, anorexic-looking wheels, and lumpy side panels, but they were still German-made, seemed essentially unkillable, and offered lots of honest and useful features and virtues, like those handy little levers to be able to easily adjust the rear shocks on the go without needing some special C-wrench tool, easily-adjustable footpegs and a whole host of other thoughtful niceties. They were super cheap (often enough to be had for a round of drinks) and hence pretty popular back in the day with British motorcycle learners, restricted as they were back then under their provisional licenses (or rather "licences") to a max engine size of 250cc for their first year on the roads.  Accordingly. it was not at all unusual for an MZ TS250 (often called an "Oh Em Zed" on account of its logo) to change hands 5 or more times in as many years as people handed them on to others once they were free to get something bigger and frankly "better". Neglected, abused, ridden like they were hated (which they often were), they just kept dutifully chugging along. I've already got a 2-stroke in my '57 Zündapp Bella scooter, my former Berlin daily driver of the '80s, but I'd still happily give a good home to one of these frumpy old commie ugly ducklings:

« Last Edit: March 21, 2018, 10:15:47 pm by Bilgemaster »
So badass my Enfield's actually illegal  in India.


Richard230

  • Grand Gearhead
  • *****
  • Posts: 2,143
  • Karma: 0
Reply #6 on: March 22, 2018, 08:02:42 am
That MZ TS250 has a muffler that only a modern Royal Enfield could love.  ;)
2011 Royal Enfield B5 500, 2018 16.6 kWh Zero S, 2016 BMW R1200RS, 2009 BMW F650GS, 2005 Triumph Bonneville T-100, 2002 Yamaha FZ1


Bilgemaster

  • Just some guy
  • Grease Monkey
  • ****
  • Posts: 422
  • Karma: 0
  • 2005 Bullet 500ES in "Mean Green" Military Trim
Reply #7 on: March 22, 2018, 09:53:46 am
That MZ TS250 has a muffler that only a modiern Royal Enfield could love.  ;)

It NEEDED to be that far back or the 2-stroke smoke plume would fog your helmet visor, especially on startup, which, like a boat raising its sails, was best done pointing into the wind! Seriously, driving on the East German Autobahns back when these gurkens and their 2-stroke Trabant and Wartburg 4-wheeled commie cousins ruled the roads was like shooting down a well-oiled luge from all the thrown-off Zweitaktöl: you just picked a slippery rut and held on. I did that Berlin to Innsbruck "transit route" several times on my scooter for trips to Italy, and spent a lot of those rides sort of sideways in a semi-controlled drift. Fortunately, my '57 Zündapp Bella 200cc was about the fastest thing on the road.
« Last Edit: March 22, 2018, 12:16:06 pm by Bilgemaster »
So badass my Enfield's actually illegal  in India.


Richard230

  • Grand Gearhead
  • *****
  • Posts: 2,143
  • Karma: 0
Reply #8 on: March 22, 2018, 12:11:24 pm
My first car was a 1958 DKW Junior, so I know what you are saying about the German two-stroke cars of that era.  My DKW was likely better, but was still kind of strange and only had a top speed of 75 mph - while freewheeling downhill. It had a 3-cylinder, two-stroke, 28 hp, engine and was coated with oxidized green "stove enamel". You put in one pint of Chevron two-stroke oil for every 5 gallons of gas during a fill up. (I think the fuel tank held about 6 gallons.) After driving that car for a couple of years, I decided to stick to motorcycle ownership.  ;)
2011 Royal Enfield B5 500, 2018 16.6 kWh Zero S, 2016 BMW R1200RS, 2009 BMW F650GS, 2005 Triumph Bonneville T-100, 2002 Yamaha FZ1


Bilgemaster

  • Just some guy
  • Grease Monkey
  • ****
  • Posts: 422
  • Karma: 0
  • 2005 Bullet 500ES in "Mean Green" Military Trim
Reply #9 on: March 22, 2018, 05:22:30 pm
A DKW Junior in the USA? Sounds like my Mom, who nursed along an eclectic series of bizarre yet cheap "foreign cars" through the streets of Boston throughout the '60s, back when that term was hardly complimentary. These included a bulbous Renault Dauphine, the passenger cabin of which was like a rolling Comanche sweatlodge, a weird Simca station wagon painted in what must have some flat blue housepaint, the model of which I cannot now recall (Smégma?), and a grey British '57 Ford Anglia, which I actually adored. It was an earlier snazzier and more angular finned model of the Weasleys' one in the Harry Potter films, and kinda looked like a shaved-down mini '57 Chevy. Speaking of those films, I gather most of you will already know all about or recognize this fine vehicle:



Recently binge-watching those films while waiting out the foul Nor'easter weather, I thought that bike sounded familiar...
« Last Edit: March 22, 2018, 06:15:28 pm by Bilgemaster »
So badass my Enfield's actually illegal  in India.


Richard230

  • Grand Gearhead
  • *****
  • Posts: 2,143
  • Karma: 0
Reply #10 on: March 22, 2018, 06:07:35 pm
A DKW Junior in the USA? Sounds like my Mom, who nursed along an eclectic series of bizarre yet cheap "foreign cars" through the streets of Boston, back when that term was hardly complimentary. These included a Renault Dauphin the passenger cabin of which was like a rolling Comanche sweatlodge, a weird Simca station wagon painted in what must have been flat blue housepaint, the model of which I cannot now recall (Smégma?), and a grey British '57 Ford Anglia, which I actually adored. It was an earlier snazzier and more angular finned model of the one in the Harry Potter films.

DKWs were being sold by some Studebaker dealers when the supply of Studebakers dried up.  :o I guess it seemed like a good idea at the time, as a competitor to VW, but it really wasn't.  ::) I bought my Junior from a teenage friend for $400 in 1963 and sold it two years later when I received my draft notice, for $200 to a local commuter who needed a small car to drive a few miles to the train station. I doubt that it lasted much longer after that.  ;)
2011 Royal Enfield B5 500, 2018 16.6 kWh Zero S, 2016 BMW R1200RS, 2009 BMW F650GS, 2005 Triumph Bonneville T-100, 2002 Yamaha FZ1


gavinfdavies

  • Bulleteer
  • ***
  • Posts: 224
  • Karma: 0
  • Noli Timere Messorem
Reply #11 on: March 22, 2018, 06:50:11 pm
Regarding a brand doing well on its own merits without stealing a well known name:

Who here would buy a Hyosung?

Exactly. Their bikes are generally better than the competition in the relevant category, yet few in the UK buy one because it's a 'Chinese' bike (actually South Korean, like Kia & Hyundai which are both well respected.

I actually replaced my GT535 with a Hyo GD250R, which did everything the GT did, but better. Light, smaller, faster, better brakes, better frame, better handling, better fuel economy, better reliability, and £3k instead of £5k. 250 single based on an SV650 top end de-bored and de-stroked. Similar specs to a full power Aprilia RS125, but with 85mpg and longer service intervals. Epic little pocket rocket.

Yet almost unheard of here, and now I think not being imported. People would rather buy the dire Suzuki 250s, which make less power and weight 40kg more, and cost more. And have worse quality parts.

Seems that quality can't over come reputation (or lack there of!) :(


Bilgemaster

  • Just some guy
  • Grease Monkey
  • ****
  • Posts: 422
  • Karma: 0
  • 2005 Bullet 500ES in "Mean Green" Military Trim
Reply #12 on: March 24, 2018, 09:29:28 am
Regarding a brand doing well on its own merits without stealing a well known name:

Who here would buy a Hyosung?

Exactly. Their bikes are generally better than the competition in the relevant category, yet few in the UK buy one because it's a 'Chinese' bike (actually South Korean, like Kia & Hyundai which are both well respected.

I actually replaced my GT535 with a Hyo GD250R, which did everything the GT did, but better. Light, smaller, faster, better brakes, better frame, better handling, better fuel economy, better reliability, and £3k instead of £5k. 250 single based on an SV650 top end de-bored and de-stroked. Similar specs to a full power Aprilia RS125, but with 85mpg and longer service intervals. Epic little pocket rocket.

Yet almost unheard of here, and now I think not being imported. People would rather buy the dire Suzuki 250s, which make less power and weight 40kg more, and cost more. And have worse quality parts.

Seems that quality can't over come reputation (or lack there of!) :(

I'm sure they're lovely and even well-made rides, but the rather slapdash company blurb titled, About Hyosung Motors, probably won't do much to promote their brand appeal in the English speaking world.







Bon appétit!

So badass my Enfield's actually illegal  in India.


Adrian II

  • Grand Gearhead
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,195
  • Karma: 0
  • Sharing my ignorance with anyone who needs it
Reply #13 on: March 24, 2018, 12:28:59 pm
Bilgemaster, can I get back to your old BSA for a moment?

Quote
I had a later (maybe '69 or '70?) BSA B44 Victor Special 441cc single, but don't really miss it and don't exactly yearn for another.  It did that scandalously common drive shaft eating the wiring harness trick common to its breed of that twilight era because BSA in its wisdom decided to save maybe 75¢ per unit by using a bushing on the drive side instead of a proper bearing, with the result that the bushing would inevitably oval out enough for the drive shaft to wobble its attached rotor against the stator, grab it and spin it around yanking the whole wiring into the primary chaincase.

Are you sure you're talking about the right model? With all the 441 Victor models BSA fitted a proper 6305 bearing in the timing side as well as the NU305 roller bearing on the drive side. Later B50 engines were given a second bearing on the drive side crankshaft. Any bronze bushing in place of the proper main bearing should not have been a factory fitting.

It was the earlier C15 and B40 models which had the plain bush, but this was on the timing side. The drive side still had a proper bearing. Later 250 models (as well as the military version of the 350cc B40) also got the 6305 timing side main.

A.
Grumpy Brit still seeking 500 AVL Bullet perfection! Will let you know if I get anywhere near...


gizzo

  • Grand Gearhead
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,725
  • Karma: 0
  • Live slow, die whenever
Reply #14 on: March 24, 2018, 06:19:04 pm
I'm sure they're lovely and even well-made rides, but the rather slapdash company blurb titled, About Hyosung Motors, probably won't do much to promote their brand appeal in the English speaking world.


I thought that was kind of sweet that they seem to have written it themselves doing the best they could and were honest about the problems the company has faced recently.  Unlike an Indian company who would hire a city boy trained in hip western speak to produce a meaningless blurb about timelessness and other garbage.  Hyosungs are very popular in Australia.  They started out as garbage but quality now seems good, like Hyundai have done in the car market.  Certainly the ones I see being thrashed at track days seem to eat it up and the riders like them.  CF Moto is the new rubbish brand bike here now. 
simon from south Australia
Continental GT
Pantah
Monster
DR250
TRX850
DRZ400SM