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Author Topic: Electrical Problem/Shorting Out  (Read 1545 times)

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Adrian II

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Reply #15 on: March 13, 2018, 08:14:06 am
Quote
The bad news is, Classic Motorworks couldn't locate one.  There is a new RE dealer here in Utah, and he couldn't locate one either.

Really?  ??? ??? ???

Just check the alternator wires coming out of the transmission chain case. If there are three yellow wires (ignore the white and green and white wires from the pulse coil) any generic three-phase regulator/rectifier will work, as I posted earlier. You might have to play with different wiring connectors but that is about as complicated as it needs to get. Three yellow wires in for the AC (so long as that is what matches what comes off your alternator), one red wire out for + DC, one black wire out for - DC.

If you get blank looks from the dealers, try an independent motorcycle electrical specialist, any AVL Bullet is way outside its warranty period by now!

The replacement Honda part may or may not work but did you notice from the pictures that it has an extra green wire, Arizoni? As I'm no Honda expert I can't tell what it's supposed to do.

A.
« Last Edit: March 13, 2018, 08:26:53 am by Adrian II »
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Arizoni

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Reply #16 on: March 13, 2018, 04:23:55 pm
I never dug into the wiring on my old CX500 but I just checked several wiring diagrams for the bike on the web.  (I checked three sites to see if they agreed with each other.  They did.)

Seems Honda uses the black wire for the (-) ground and uses the dark green as a backup (-) ground.  That is, the brake lights and some other things have a dark green wire which serves as a ground wire and the same light terminal is also connected to a black wire that attaches to the frame so, both the black and the dark green wire can be thought of as the negative ground.
The red or red/white wire is the positive (+) output wire.

When I did my digging on finding a suitable Reg/Rect I chose the Honda 500CX as a bike that would probably have a electrical alternator output equal to or higher than the RE's so there isn't any likelihood of the RE alternator overloading it.
Jim
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crkennedy1

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Reply #17 on: March 14, 2018, 06:00:06 am
Thanks for the detailed information, it will be very helpful when the part arrives.  Apparently it's being shipped all the way from China and isn't due to arrive until then end of May!
I think I'll take your advice and check out a couple of independent bike shops here locally and see if they have the part or something comparable in stock... stay tuned!
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tooseevee

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Reply #18 on: March 14, 2018, 09:43:31 am
         Did a little more lookin' around after I posted my last and I have a question for those more in the know than me.

          The Part# for the Regulator/Rectifier Unit in my Spare Parts Catalogue is 502039/a (Pg. 44/45). The one I linked to is 502039 (with no /a). There is also a 502039/b.

           I did find one site that sez 502039/b is for the Thunderbird and another site that sez the 502039 is a replacement for both the /a AND the /b  ??? ??? ??? ???

           Does anyone know what the differences in these 3 are and if and how it matters? 502039, 502039/a and 502039/b.

            I think I'll just get one before they go to $100 so I'll have it on the shelf or pass it along to the new owner some day. 
2008 AVL Classic.Extensive head work by Ace.Ace canister/TM32/Ace manifold.Small open bottle/hot tube removed.Pertronix Coil.Bobber seat.Fed mandates removed.Battery in right side case.Decomp&all doodads removed.'30s Lucas taillight/7" headlight.


Adrian II

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Reply #19 on: March 14, 2018, 06:23:46 pm
The ebay item you linked to has SEVEN wires, if somebody has the appropriate wiring diagram they could advise what all the different wires are for.  AFAIK the EFI models still have alternators with three yellow wires for the AC output.

A.
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tooseevee

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Reply #20 on: March 15, 2018, 11:26:08 am
The ebay item you linked to has SEVEN wires, if somebody has the appropriate wiring diagram they could advise what all the different wires are for.  AFAIK the EFI models still have alternators with three yellow wires for the AC output.

A.

           Yes, you are correct and I apologize for linking to the wrong regulator for an '07 or an '08 AVL Electric Start. My bike ('08 AVL Classic) of course has a 5-wire R/R (502039/a). I was totally brain-fukt by the Google and eBay info. There's some very confusing, contradictory and just plain wrong info out there.

            In my defense, there's a lot of confusing info out there on these R/Rs and sometimes I don't think the people selling these things know what they are.

            Some sites say the 502039 replaces both the 502039/a and the 502039/b. How can that be when some sites say one has 5 and the other 7? Whaddayado? Just cut the two extras off?

             Anyway -Sorry I caused confusion and I am ordering the one you (Adrian) linked to in the U.K. because it very clearly states what it is in both the picture and the text. I'll pay the shipping and I don't care how long it takes. I just want one on the shelf before they all go to $100 as Hitchcock's already is. This is one of the very few things I've found that you just can't trust (or figure out) what the eBay vendors say. A lot of the blurbs are unclear or vague or contradictory.   

           I'm going to Remove my post with the bogus R/R link.
« Last Edit: March 15, 2018, 11:47:09 am by tooseevee »
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tooseevee

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Reply #21 on: March 15, 2018, 11:56:48 am
I think Hitchcock shows the regulator/rectifier as #2 in this link

http://www.hitchcocksmotorcycles.com/partsbooks/pages/4691/TCI_System

There seems to be two different styles.  One with a three pin and one with a four pin connector?
Click on the blue #2 to see these.

At 90 Pounds, these are pretty expensive in my opinion and that doesn't include shipping costs.

This Honda CX500 R/R looks like it has three input wires (from the alternator) and two output wires like the RE R/R in the picture above.
It's $18 price looks a lot more appealing to me.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-Voltage-Regulator-Rectifier-for-Honda-CMX450C-CX500T-CX500D-CX500C-CX500-/391730359728?_trksid=p2385738.m4383.l4275.c10

             The Honda one you link to has 6 wires.

              The one you link to from Hitchcock's (which is the one in my '08 AVL) has 5 wires. The Hitchcock diagram is the same one in my Parts Book Pg. 44/45.

             So as Arizoni has already said the Honda one just has 2 ground wires instead of 1.

              Maybe I should just order that one instead of the $50 one from the U.K..
« Last Edit: March 15, 2018, 12:06:44 pm by tooseevee »
2008 AVL Classic.Extensive head work by Ace.Ace canister/TM32/Ace manifold.Small open bottle/hot tube removed.Pertronix Coil.Bobber seat.Fed mandates removed.Battery in right side case.Decomp&all doodads removed.'30s Lucas taillight/7" headlight.


Arizoni

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Reply #22 on: March 15, 2018, 12:20:17 pm
I don't know about the part numbers you mentioned but in the jet engine company I worked at, the first design of a part had a basic number like 525334.

If a change was made to the design the drawing became revision A and the parts made to it were then identified with the basic part number + a A or like 525334 A.

The next change would be a revision B (525334 B) and so forth.

These changes needed to be totally interchangeable with the original basic part number parts.  If there was a change that was not interchangeable, the part number was changed to a new one.

These revision letter changes could be anything from correcting a note on the drawing to something that improved the function or eased the manufacturing of the part.  Allowing an alternate material that was equal to or better than the material that was originally specified is an example.
Jim
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1999 Miata 10th Anniversary


tooseevee

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Reply #23 on: March 15, 2018, 12:39:56 pm
I don't know about the part numbers you mentioned but in the jet engine company I worked at, the first design of a part had a basic number like 525334.

If a change was made to the design the drawing became revision A and the parts made to it were then identified with the basic part number + a A or like 525334 A.

The next change would be a revision B (525334 B) and so forth.

These changes needed to be totally interchangeable with the original basic part number parts.  If there was a change that was not interchangeable, the part number was changed to a new one.

These revision letter changes could be anything from correcting a note on the drawing to something that improved the function or eased the manufacturing of the part.  Allowing an alternate material that was equal to or better than the material that was originally specified is an example.

            Yes. That's always been my understanding also (20 years in large manufacturing where the Revs and Change Requests outweighed the final product). That's partly why I was so confused because certain sites say the model withOUT the /a or /b suffix on the part number is a replacement for the /a AND the /b. If that's true, then it means that the 7 wire R/R can be put on my '08 (which has a 5 wire /a) if you know what to do (or not do) with the two extra wires.

           Another question: If I order this one as a spare

https://www.ebay.com/itm/12V-Wassell-Solid-State-Three-Phase-Rectifier-Regulator-Max-190W-WW10124W/232196675977?hash=item3610001989:g:6BEAAMXQkl9RbFOL&vxp=mtr

             How do we tell which yellow wire is which so I could attach them to the correct pins in the existing R/R pin connector to plug them in to the existing alternator pin connector if and when I need it?   
« Last Edit: March 15, 2018, 02:17:57 pm by tooseevee »
2008 AVL Classic.Extensive head work by Ace.Ace canister/TM32/Ace manifold.Small open bottle/hot tube removed.Pertronix Coil.Bobber seat.Fed mandates removed.Battery in right side case.Decomp&all doodads removed.'30s Lucas taillight/7" headlight.


Arizoni

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Reply #24 on: March 15, 2018, 04:34:28 pm
Any yellow wire should be like any other yellow wire.

If there was a special need to attach them in a specific order they would be identified by some special colors like yellow/green, yellow/blue, yellow/white or something and these colors would be matched to wires from the alternator having similar colors.
Jim
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1999 Miata 10th Anniversary


tooseevee

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Reply #25 on: March 15, 2018, 06:40:00 pm
Any yellow wire should be like any other yellow wire.

If there was a special need to attach them in a specific order they would be identified by some special colors like yellow/green, yellow/blue, yellow/white or something and these colors would be matched to wires from the alternator having similar colors.

           Aha :) So it's that simple, is it? Good to know. Thanks again for yet another good thing to know.
2008 AVL Classic.Extensive head work by Ace.Ace canister/TM32/Ace manifold.Small open bottle/hot tube removed.Pertronix Coil.Bobber seat.Fed mandates removed.Battery in right side case.Decomp&all doodads removed.'30s Lucas taillight/7" headlight.


heloego

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Reply #26 on: March 18, 2018, 09:12:43 am
   I understand the "T" in TCI is for Transistor, and the "C" in CDI is for Capacitor.
   THis question has somewhere already been asked, but I'll ask it again.
   Are the two interchangeable?
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tooseevee

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Reply #27 on: March 18, 2018, 09:34:09 am
   I understand the "T" in TCI is for Transistor, and the "C" in CDI is for Capacitor.
   THis question has somewhere already been asked, but I'll ask it again.
   Are the two interchangeable?

            No. There is tons of stuff out there in the Googleverse about this and here if you can find it.

             I can remember back when I first got my '08 there was BooKoo discussion on this for a couple of years. 
2008 AVL Classic.Extensive head work by Ace.Ace canister/TM32/Ace manifold.Small open bottle/hot tube removed.Pertronix Coil.Bobber seat.Fed mandates removed.Battery in right side case.Decomp&all doodads removed.'30s Lucas taillight/7" headlight.


heloego

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Reply #28 on: March 18, 2018, 10:55:15 am
It probably wouldn't hurt to keep a spare handy. I'll e-mail Hitchcock's.
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Adrian II

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Reply #29 on: March 18, 2018, 03:47:24 pm
   I understand the "T" in TCI is for Transistor, and the "C" in CDI is for Capacitor.
   THis question has somewhere already been asked, but I'll ask it again.
   Are the two interchangeable?

+1 to tooseevee, if you have an EXPORT model Indian Bullet with electronic ignition from the factory it will be TCI, transistor controlled ignition.

CDI or capacitor discharge ignition was only fitted to a number of home market C.I. and AVL 350s and is a completely different bit of kit and not interchangeable. Unless you are really really good I shall post a very tedious string of photos to show the difference...  :P

A.
Grumpy Brit still seeking 500 AVL Bullet perfection! Will let you know if I get anywhere near...