Author Topic: Ethanol Free  (Read 3993 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

hpwaco

  • Grand Gearhead
  • *****
  • Posts: 666
  • Karma: 0
on: January 19, 2018, 01:10:06 am
Today I took the gas can to the only station here in Waco that sells ethanol free gas ( the only one of the 4 Murphys Walmarts ) and got a couple of gallons to put in the gt.   Price is now up to $2.61 a gallon after being $2.25 last summer pre hurricanes.  Good thing it gets 65+ mpg!   Not riding cause it was 11°F over night (after a record low of 8°F the other night) and below freezing during the day!!!   At least we haven't had any of the ice and snow that's plaguing other parts of the country.  Predicting 70° for the weekend.  That's central Texas!


Bilgemaster

  • Just some guy
  • Global Moderator
  • Grand Gearhead
  • *****
  • Posts: 3,251
  • Karma: 1
  • 2005 Bullet 500ES in "Mean Green" Military Trim
Reply #1 on: January 19, 2018, 06:31:28 am
I agree: ethanol is the devil, and I drive great distances to avoid it in the engines I care most about. I also adore Marvel Mystery Oil as a dessert topping, so I'm a right old geezer-nutter (take your pick, d.h. Hans wie du willst MIT'm englischen Autokorrekt). Nutter-Mutter ist mir Wurst!
So badass my Enfield's actually illegal  in India. Yet it squeaks by here in Virginia.

 


Richard230

  • Grand Gearhead
  • *****
  • Posts: 6,065
  • Karma: 0
Reply #2 on: January 19, 2018, 02:08:43 pm
I can't think of any chemical or drug harder to find in California than non-ethanol-infused gasoline.   :o Old dinosaurs must be crying in their beer right now.   :(
2018 16.6 kWh Zero S, 2009 BMW F650GS, 2020 KTM Duke 390, 2002 Yamaha FZ1


Vince

  • Grand Gearhead
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,693
  • Karma: 0
Reply #3 on: January 20, 2018, 05:33:48 pm
     The arguments against Ethanol apply mostly to the original formulation from the late 70's and early 80's. Modern formulation are mostly OK to use. I don't bother going out of my way to find "real" gas. It is not worth the hassle. The only real issue I see remaining is it's affinity for water, but modern formulations are MUCH better. If the vehicle is used regularly there is no problem. For infrequently used vehicles use Heet or Sea Foam during and just after storage.


mattsz

  • Grand Gearhead
  • *****
  • Posts: 5,525
  • Karma: 0
  • moto-gurdyist
Reply #4 on: January 20, 2018, 10:04:44 pm
     The arguments against Ethanol apply mostly to the original formulation from the late 70's and early 80's. Modern formulation are mostly OK to use. I don't bother going out of my way to find "real" gas. It is not worth the hassle. The only real issue I see remaining is it's affinity for water, but modern formulations are MUCH better. If the vehicle is used regularly there is no problem. For infrequently used vehicles use Heet or Sea Foam during and just after storage.

Oooo...

 ;D

But seriously... you'd think with all the marinas along the coast and lakes where I live, there'd be lots of non-ethanol fuel around me, but nope...


heloego

  • A 2x4. My kingdom for a 2x4!
  • Grand Gearhead
  • *****
  • Posts: 2,497
  • Karma: 0
  • USA '12 C5, '06 ElectraX
Reply #5 on: January 21, 2018, 02:08:27 pm
   There's only one Ethanol-Free vendor in Albuquerque, about 5 miles from home. THough regular 10% has had no ill effects on my bike, I still get the ethanol-free just to play it safe. And it gives me another excuse to ride my "therapist" C5.  ;)
'18 Bonneville T-100, Blue/White
'12 C5 Classic
'06 Electra X AVL w/32mm Mikuni and Gold Star system.


hpwaco

  • Grand Gearhead
  • *****
  • Posts: 666
  • Karma: 0
Reply #6 on: January 21, 2018, 07:19:46 pm
Having seen pictures of rust clogged fuel pump filters on the forum and with the steel (uncoated?) tank I get ethanol free whenever I can and always use treatment/stabilizer.  My under utilized gt is about to pass its 4th birthday, while I'll be having my ( not alcohol free ) 77th in June!


heloego

  • A 2x4. My kingdom for a 2x4!
  • Grand Gearhead
  • *****
  • Posts: 2,497
  • Karma: 0
  • USA '12 C5, '06 ElectraX
Reply #7 on: January 22, 2018, 02:26:40 pm
Enjoy your 77th! And "non-alchohol-free" b-days of 70 or over are always well deserved. ;)

   While not quite there yet, I was pleasantly surprised at the recent Holidays gift from my immediate supervisor...a full quart of the loveliest Peach Medicine I've had in many years!  ;D
   It has been Taste Tested and roundly approved, re-sealed and will remain so for celebration of the final fuel adjustments and tub alignment on the C5!  8)
'18 Bonneville T-100, Blue/White
'12 C5 Classic
'06 Electra X AVL w/32mm Mikuni and Gold Star system.


Bumboo

  • Scooter
  • **
  • Posts: 71
  • Karma: 0
Reply #8 on: January 23, 2018, 04:54:35 am
Ethanol Gasoline?  Best thing to happen to my business as the owner of a main-stream Outboard in Inboard Dealership and Marine Service Company!  It cost my customers thousands and thousands of dollars in repairs every year that now flow into my business. Ethanol free fuel is not available anywhere locally,  not even on the waterfront.  Hell, make gasoline 25% ethanol.  I need a new truck.

As Vince pointed out, it's not much of an issue any longer in cars or motorcycles where it's used up in short period.  But for intermittent use and storage such as in boats...and motorcycles, it's still a demon.  It decays with major collateral damage to internal surfaces and parts. We see it almost every day!   We sell, install, and service a major brand outboard and inboard line and the parent company has invested heavily and studied the problem extensively to try to find or develop a work-around or a product that will mitigate the problem.  Their conclusion:  some products help but nothing really works to stabilize the damn stuff for more than about 90 days....and that's pushing it.   Leave ethanol it in the HP fuel pump on a modern multi-port fuel injected marine engine, sometimes for as little as about six weeks, and you can be looking at $700+ in a replacement pump...not including installation.  That doesn't include cleaning or replacing the injectors as is usually required.  My advice:  go out of you way as required to find ethanol free gasoline where it's available.   

Oh yeah,  I went to ride my BMW airhead yesterday( an unseasonably warm day) and found ethanol had once again destroyed the diaphragms in my Bing CV carbs.   

Sorry, I just getting started in on Ethanol........   


High On Octane

  • Grand Gearhead
  • *****
  • Posts: 6,075
  • Karma: 0
Reply #9 on: January 23, 2018, 01:08:52 pm
Same here.  We constantly get in bikes that "have been in storage" or "sat a couple of years".  If the bike has sat longer than 6 months, it's going to need a fuel flush and carbs rebuilt.  If it's fuel injected and sat for longer than 18 months, chances are it is going to need to entire fuel system replaced.  We've gotten in 2 fairly new bikes this last year, both of which had less than 50 miles on them.  Both needed the fuel pumps and fuel filters replaced.  The Harley needed everything in the fuel system replaced except for the injector, which still needed a complete, thorough cleaning to operate correctly.

Bottom line is, ethanol fuel (Colorado fuel in particular) is absolute crap.  It won't keep more than a couple of months.  We've had bikes towed in with non-running issues that only say for 6-8 weeks.  Perform a fuel flush and spark plugs and they fire right up.  Fortunately, there is a new chain of fuel stations popping up here in the Denver metro called Maverick's, and they have dedicated fuel tanks and hoses for pure ethanol free fuel.  Currently about $2.65/gal for ethanol free 87 octane.

BUT, if you absolutely cannot find ethanol free fuel, StarTron fuel additive does an excellent job of stabilizing ethanol fuel.  They claim up to 2 years of safe storage.  Before we found readily available ethanol free pump gas, we used it in every single gallon of fuel in service.  Ethanol fuel just can't be trusted for long periods of storage.
2001 Harley Davidson Road King


hpwaco

  • Grand Gearhead
  • *****
  • Posts: 666
  • Karma: 0
Reply #10 on: January 23, 2018, 05:16:45 pm
Thanks for the input "High on Octane".  I've used Startron in my 14gt ( and previously in my 01 Bonneville  ) since new until ethanol free became available here in Waco.  I also take Startron with me on the occasional trip that will require refueling.  My daughters 03 Ducati Monster 620 also gets the ethanol free and Startron treatment.


heloego

  • A 2x4. My kingdom for a 2x4!
  • Grand Gearhead
  • *****
  • Posts: 2,497
  • Karma: 0
  • USA '12 C5, '06 ElectraX
Reply #11 on: January 23, 2018, 08:39:23 pm
$2.65/gallon for E-Free is pretty decent.
10% E-gas here is at about $2.25/gallon, and I'm getting E-Free for about $2.90 (90 Octane).
'18 Bonneville T-100, Blue/White
'12 C5 Classic
'06 Electra X AVL w/32mm Mikuni and Gold Star system.


Richard230

  • Grand Gearhead
  • *****
  • Posts: 6,065
  • Karma: 0
Reply #12 on: January 23, 2018, 10:33:57 pm
My local SF Bay Area Union Oil station is selling 87-octaine "winter" (the price goes up in summer) smog 10% ethanol-infused fuel, for $3.22 a gallon.  91-octaine "premium" goes for $3.52 a gallon. California sucks.  :(
« Last Edit: January 24, 2018, 02:21:25 pm by Richard230 »
2018 16.6 kWh Zero S, 2009 BMW F650GS, 2020 KTM Duke 390, 2002 Yamaha FZ1


Bilgemaster

  • Just some guy
  • Global Moderator
  • Grand Gearhead
  • *****
  • Posts: 3,251
  • Karma: 1
  • 2005 Bullet 500ES in "Mean Green" Military Trim
Reply #13 on: January 24, 2018, 03:13:03 am
Ethanol Gasoline?  Best thing to happen to my business as the owner of a main-stream Outboard in Inboard Dealership and Marine Service Company!  It cost my customers thousands and thousands of dollars in repairs every year that now flow into my business. Ethanol free fuel is not available anywhere locally,  not even on the waterfront.  Hell, make gasoline 25% ethanol.  I need a new truck.

As Vince pointed out, it's not much of an issue any longer in cars or motorcycles where it's used up in short period.  But for intermittent use and storage such as in boats...and motorcycles, it's still a demon.  It decays with major collateral damage to internal surfaces and parts. We see it almost every day!   We sell, install, and service a major brand outboard and inboard line and the parent company has invested heavily and studied the problem extensively to try to find or develop a work-around or a product that will mitigate the problem.  Their conclusion:  some products help but nothing really works to stabilize the damn stuff for more than about 90 days....and that's pushing it.   Leave ethanol it in the HP fuel pump on a modern multi-port fuel injected marine engine, sometimes for as little as about six weeks, and you can be looking at $700+ in a replacement pump...not including installation.  That doesn't include cleaning or replacing the injectors as is usually required.  My advice:  go out of you way as required to find ethanol free gasoline where it's available.   

Oh yeah,  I went to ride my BMW airhead yesterday( an unseasonably warm day) and found ethanol had once again destroyed the diaphragms in my Bing CV carbs.   

Sorry, I just getting started in on Ethanol........

Brothers and sisters, I must confess that I too have benefited nautically from the evil embrace of the Devil Ethanol.  The little 2-stroke 2½ horsepower Mercury outboard that currently pushes my gorgeous little $1 "Foundling" Com-Pac 16 sailboat around the docks was a craigslist find: some guy trying to empty his shed of a buddy's mostly worn out sailing gear, said buddy having long since returned to England for good. The deal I cut was $200 running or $100 not.  He couldn't get her kicking, though I gather he didn't try very hard. I believe he just wanted it gone. So, he brought it on by, I gave him his Franklin, and he was on his way. I was left with what appeared to be an almost brand new outboard externally. I gave her a few cursory pulls with some fresh 2-stroke fuel, but not so much as a sputter. When I pulled off the carb the tale was told: it was chock full of fossilized ethanol snot. I scraped at least two full tablespoons of the stuff out of that fuel reservoir bowl--It looked just like that Sugar In The Raw stuff you get at Starbucks, though I doubt you'd want it in your Skinny Mochafrappalattemegaccino, or whatever you kids are swilling nowadays. Suffice it to say that after a good long bath in Marvel Mystery Oil, I cleaned her up with some spray carb cleaner, removing and blowing out all her jets and passages, and now she starts first pull every time, and has since replaced the nearly identical but older and fussier Tohatsu that came with the boat. The moral of this story is that ethanol WILL clog up your engines' fuel systems if allowed to sit for awhile. Fortunately, that little Mercury/Tohatsu carb is the very model of simplicity--like an old textbook generic diagram of a carburetor. It only takes literally minutes to remove, disassemble and remount--even quicker than a lawn mower's, and like most lawn mowers the fuel's simply gravity-fed. So I was lucky. Thing is, ethanol also eats fuel pump diaphragms, fuel lines, and even fuel tank liners in older collectible cars, and what it'll do to some older fiberglass fuel tanks is really shocking.  So anything more complicated than my litlle pull-start "popper" and you might be looking at some serious and possibly very costly mayhem. So yes, while I'll grudgingly run that ethanol spew through our family's three mid-to-late '90s daily runabouts, where it'll find its way out of the tailpipe in pretty short order, any engine, the Enfield's included, that I really care about and which is even remotely likely to have fuel sit in it for even a month or so, is on a steady diet of ethanol-free 89 octane with about 4 ounces per 10 gallons of Marvel Mystery Oil. This includes the lawn mower, trimmer and my little collection of generators. The fuel for the various outboards (couple of 2-strokes and a Honda BF50 4-stroke) also gets an added dash of Sta-Bil 360 Marine as per spec on the bottle, with 2-stroke oil as needed to measure. For engines like lawn mowers, generators and outboards, which I know may sit for several weeks or more unused, I will also turn off the fuel tap and run that carb dry. This might not be a terrible idea for an Enfield as part of any regular winter maintenance and storage routine (along with changing the engine oil, giving her a good clean and polish, and maybe a shot of fogging oil or just squirting a little Marvel or other oil into the spark plug hole and just working that through in the cylinder), should one not be blessed with a climate with lots of semi-decent winter driving days.

Fortunately, while not exactly convenient, ideal or even sensible personal fuel-use-wise, despite the EPA being in blatant cohoots with corn growers in Iowa at the behest of every presidential candidate since maybe Millard Fillmore, it is still not too difficult for me here in Virginia to indulge in this well-justified Ethanol-Free Fuel Fetish of mine, since I can obtain ethanol-free gas right from the pump in a designated "rural" county less than 30 minutes from where I live here in an allegedly "metropolitan" part of Virginia, according to those EPA regulatory drones. Thanks to the directory compiled and maintained by the good folks at Pure-gas.org, I know right where to go.

All I can say is that if it bugs you that you can't even choose to pay a little more to get fuel  that won't completely bugger your valuable property, you should write your Congressperson and both Senators. Do it every year until they fix this. I do. If more did, maybe it'd get onto their radar screens.
So badass my Enfield's actually illegal  in India. Yet it squeaks by here in Virginia.