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Author Topic: How do you stop your cast iron 500's engine?  (Read 1264 times)

Blltrdr

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Re: How do you stop your cast iron 500's engine?
« Reply #15 on: January 12, 2018, 02:43:43 pm »
Before you put the magnets on the drain plugs you should know that the overall length of at least one of them is critical.
If it is too long it can block off the oil passage.

I'm not sure which one of them (or all?) is the one to worry about but I'm sure someone here can tell us.

You really only have to have a magnetic drain plug on the oil tank drain, the two forward plugs have screens attached. The very front drain plug should be checked for any interference with the oil gallery hole which is visible with a flashlight and mirror. I bend an "L" on a piece of wire, stick it up into the hole and hook it into the oil gallery hole and then mark the wire at the case and then compare to distance to the drain plug with washer to see if there is interference. I checked mine and had to add an extra washer for clearance. I'm sure this is something that is overlooked. The oil will probably make it's way even if it is partially obstructed but would assume it probably flows better unobstructed.
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REpozer

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Re: How do you stop your cast iron 500's engine?
« Reply #16 on: January 12, 2018, 07:00:48 pm »
Yep put 800ml -1000ml of something slippery in your Primary Drive, if you have a working Electric Start.

As far as shutting off an Iron Barrel, if itís running good , leave it alone👨🏻‍🔧.
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Kevin Mahoney

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Re: How do you stop your cast iron 500's engine?
« Reply #17 on: January 17, 2018, 11:08:38 am »
Where to start...
You are getting excellent advice about using the decompressor. If it were me I would not use the ES either. It is a horrible design which never got any better. A failure of the sprag is expensive and the replacement might last forever or an hour, you just never know. A failure can also take other parts with it - parts that are getting hard to find.

All of the fussing about does this method or that method for stopping the engine cause more strain on pistons etc. should be reserved for the pub. Those arguments are right up there with Ford vs Chevy, which oil to use etc. and are non consequential.

At one point the factory did recommend overfilling the primary under the theory that the oil wasn't lubricating the sprag hence failures. The factory was never able to get their hands around the problem. First remember that the ES wasn't sold in India so the numbers were small. Next the factory never believed the global importers when we had any problems. I can't tell you that one year is better than the next because the problem was never solved.

Much research was done by the UK importer (Watsonian Squire) to solve the problem. It became evident that kickback was taking out the sprag. They found that they would get an extra spark sometimes that would cause some of it. The first fix was to put a resistor in the AVL ignition system. The next and best thing was to replace the black "brain" with a green one. We sent them out for free for years. It prevented spark till the engine had a couple of turns going. I have the prototype ES and am scared to death of losing a sprag.

Lastly you should fix whatever it is that is causing your wet sumping. There is no reason whatsoever that it should to that other than a couple of worn parts.

My last question is serious - Given my age the idea of wearing gloves while working on cars, bikes etc. was unheard of. For the past many years I see all mechanics wearing them. What is that all about?
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hpwaco

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Re: How do you stop your cast iron 500's engine?
« Reply #18 on: January 17, 2018, 12:58:40 pm »
Bought a 02 Bullet ES shortly after they came out.  Several years and 8k+ miles without any electric start, sprag clutch or shutting off with the key problems.  Really liked the manual compression release.  Vibrations and other electrical manifestations convinced me to part company with it.

Bilgemaster

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Re: How do you stop your cast iron 500's engine?
« Reply #19 on: January 18, 2018, 11:42:09 am »
Where to start...
You are getting excellent advice about using the decompressor. If it were me I would not use the ES either. It is a horrible design which never got any better. A failure of the sprag is expensive and the replacement might last forever or an hour, you just never know. A failure can also take other parts with it - parts that are getting hard to find.

All of the fussing about does this method or that method for stopping the engine cause more strain on pistons etc. should be reserved for the pub. Those arguments are right up there with Ford vs Chevy, which oil to use etc. and are non consequential.

At one point the factory did recommend overfilling the primary under the theory that the oil wasn't lubricating the sprag hence failures. The factory was never able to get their hands around the problem. First remember that the ES wasn't sold in India so the numbers were small. Next the factory never believed the global importers when we had any problems. I can't tell you that one year is better than the next because the problem was never solved.

Much research was done by the UK importer (Watsonian Squire) to solve the problem. It became evident that kickback was taking out the sprag. They found that they would get an extra spark sometimes that would cause some of it. The first fix was to put a resistor in the AVL ignition system. The next and best thing was to replace the black "brain" with a green one. We sent them out for free for years. It prevented spark till the engine had a couple of turns going. I have the prototype ES and am scared to death of losing a sprag.

Lastly you should fix whatever it is that is causing your wet sumping. There is no reason whatsoever that it should to that other than a couple of worn parts.

My last question is serious - Given my age the idea of wearing gloves while working on cars, bikes etc. was unheard of. For the past many years I see all mechanics wearing them. What is that all about?

I am honored that the undisputed Major Domo of these forums might take an active interest in a n00b like me first coming to grips with his new-to-him Enfield.  Last but most serious question first: I must also admit that apart from working with stuff like fiberglass or caustics like paint remover, I also scarcely ever wear gloves when tinkering. Get off my lawn, hydrocarbons! You don't scare me you benzene-ringed punks!  Why in my day we gargled with used motor oil before a hot date! Still hot from the pan! Gave our voices a nice warm and smooth yet gravelly manly-man authority. Then we'd hang that big onion from our belt, which was the style at the time, and head into town for penny candy and a matinee over at the movie palace. That said, did you watch that Bangalore oil change and hot enema film? C'mon, you just know that guy's marinated 10 or 12 hours a day in more bargain solvents of sketchy provenance and heavy metals than a shaved OSHA lab guinea pig. My hunch is he won't be featured in next month's Better Health magazine. Another hunch is that a lot of this outbreak of garage glovery may be ascribed to the wishes of mechanics' wives and girlfriends.  Like you say, lube is lube, but 9 out of 10 gals prefer KY to old Castrol. Not all, of course--and that's that dirty little wench you marry, if you're lucky enough to find her.

I'm a little sorry to hear about the fragility of the Enfield's electric start.  The Nortons and BSA I've had didn't have one. The last real Norton Commando, the 850 Mk. III, had something which at its best could typically only be considered a sort of "help starter," still usually requiring a hefty kick in concert with it to awaken the beast. At least my Enfield's consistently gets the job done under its own steam.  In fact, I don't believe the previous owner may have ever used the kickstart. Given your advisory and considering the source though, I believe I may begin exclusively kick-starting her henceforth, at least when she's already warm. I've no idea whether mine has the green or black "brain box" you describe--Would this be clearly visible without tearing her apart?

That whole by-the-book kick starting process using the ammeter needle swing that one finds described here, there and everywhere just doesn't seem to quite jibe with my own ride. Cycle as much as I like through the stroke, my ammeter needle doesn't budge until the engine's running, when it then tips encouragingly into the green. I expect this may have something to do with my particular 2005 model's having been rigged to always have its lights on for "safety's sake" whenever the ignition's on, and that load is likely masking that little draw of those points opening and closing their gap. But that's OK, I know from thousands of starts of the old BSA single I used to have what "TDC-and-a-tad" feels like for starting, and if necessary I'll figure out something more exact for determining exact TDC for later tappet adjusting I'm sure...maybe one of those spark plug hole screw-in measurement doo-dads. The Norton's tappets didn't really need spot-on piston pinpointing. Maybe the Enfield won't either.

As for the "wet sumping issue," there hasn't been one since I have begun keeping the bike's piston when at rest up near TDC. I'm led to understand it's a fairly common issue if the piston's left low in the stroke. So, for now I'm just going to chalk it down to "just one of her quirks."  In fact, I suppose I should be grateful for it in a sense, since the day I finally met the previous owner to look over the bike, that wet sump, the resultant palls of smoke as it burnt off, a slightly maladjusted decompressor cable and the sudden onset of fortuitous flurries that afternoon, more than halved her asking price on the spot. I'd have likely bought her anyhow, but now I've got a few extra bucks for toys and other needful gimcracks from Ft. Worth!

Anyhow, thanks for chiming it! The weekend forecast up here in Virginia's looking sweet, so I'm hoping to get out there again for a good long burble.
« Last Edit: January 18, 2018, 01:32:35 pm by Bilgemaster »
So badass my Enfield's actually illegal in India.

Chuck D

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Re: How do you stop your cast iron 500's engine?
« Reply #20 on: January 18, 2018, 05:51:36 pm »
Bilgemaster,
A few things from your last post jumped out at me.

If you've got points, there is no "box", black or green to be found.

You can make the headlight switch on your right control pod functional by deleting a jumper in the headlight nacelle and then connecting the remaining ends. There's a lot of posts about if you search here.

When you adjust the push rods, TDC for the piston is beside the point. You want to feel for that spot (which happens to coincide with just past TDC) when both tappets are at their lowest point and thus exerting no upward pressure on the push rods so that both valves are closed. Now you can do your adjusting. It's all visible behind the little tappet cover.

Your penis won't fall off if you wear gloves to handle filthy bike parts. It just might though if you don't.

Enjoy riding this weekend, still too cold for me! :)

« Last Edit: January 18, 2018, 06:13:40 pm by Chuck D »
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Bilgemaster

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Re: How do you stop your cast iron 500's engine?
« Reply #21 on: January 18, 2018, 07:13:57 pm »
Right. Thanks. I'll get that glove on my penis somehow.
« Last Edit: January 18, 2018, 07:51:18 pm by Bilgemaster »
So badass my Enfield's actually illegal in India.

Chuck D

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Re: How do you stop your cast iron 500's engine?
« Reply #22 on: January 18, 2018, 07:56:31 pm »
Right. Thanks. I'll get that glove on my penis somehow.
So you've heard the one about the man with five penis's...
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Chuck D

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Re: How do you stop your cast iron 500's engine?
« Reply #23 on: January 18, 2018, 07:59:26 pm »
...condom fit him like a glove.
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Bilgemaster

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Re: How do you stop your cast iron 500's engine?
« Reply #24 on: January 18, 2018, 09:09:35 pm »
Something...something..."Fist of Fury"...something else..."So let's give him a big hand!"...

Sorry. Got nothing. Lemme get another beer...

"The Aristocrats!"
« Last Edit: January 22, 2018, 06:42:03 am by Bilgemaster »
So badass my Enfield's actually illegal in India.

Vince

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Re: How do you stop your cast iron 500's engine?
« Reply #25 on: January 20, 2018, 11:06:20 am »
     Former dealer here. The ES primary should have one liter of the same 20W50 MOTORCYCLE SPECIFIC oil you use in your engine. If the Sprag does go, as part of the repair I modify the boss that holds the Sprag spindle. This allows more oil into the bearing and starter clutch. Splash lubrication from the earlier 420cc spec is not enough.
    Set the idle as low as is stable. When you come to a stop let the engine settle into the low idle. THEN turn off the key. Do NOT blip the throttle when killing the engine. From my old racing days I learned that using the decompression valve while running sucked dirt into the engine and allowed carbon buildup on the mating surfaces. This caused lower compression and created hot spots of super heated carbon that can cause pre-ignition. After the engine stops, move the kick starter until the engine comes up to compression to minimize wet sumping. Or you could just ride more often.
     Keep the battery FULLY charged. The vast majority of the Sprag failures I had were on infrequently used bikes. A fully battery enables the Sprag to fully grip and keep on spinning the engine. A low battery will not keep the Sprag engaged, so a kick back will cause the dis-engagement and subsequent damage to the Sprag.
     I always use 7 mil thick Nitrile gloves when I turn wrenches. They last much better than the 5 mil and offer much better feel than the 9 mil. My hands are no longer cracked and dry, and do not ache from the chemicals. And my wife appreciates the lack of grease marks on her chest.

solg

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Re: How do you stop your cast iron 500's engine?
« Reply #26 on: January 21, 2018, 10:15:04 am »
Keeping the penis humor going
I like George Carlin's take on it: If your penis is so filthy that you have to wash your hands after you touch it, you've got bigger problems than just bathroom hygiene.
« Last Edit: January 21, 2018, 10:18:57 am by solg »
The computer can't tell you the emotional story. It can give you the exact mathematical design, but what's missing is the eyebrows. FZ

solg

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Re: How do you stop your cast iron 500's engine?
« Reply #27 on: January 21, 2018, 10:21:00 am »
My inner child is a 12yr old Catholic school boy! :)
The computer can't tell you the emotional story. It can give you the exact mathematical design, but what's missing is the eyebrows. FZ

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Re: How do you stop your cast iron 500's engine?
« Reply #28 on: January 22, 2018, 02:41:25 am »
Re: How do you stop your cast iron 500

 Easy. I throw out and anchor.

I can break it better,,,,at night, in the rain, on the trail,, 20 miles from nowhere.

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Bilgemaster

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Re: How do you stop your cast iron 500's engine?
« Reply #29 on: January 22, 2018, 07:32:02 am »
Re: How do you stop your cast iron 500

 Easy. I throw out and anchor.

We sailors call that "feeding the fish and having a little nap."
So badass my Enfield's actually illegal in India.