[Superchuck]

Many thanks to you guys... been super helpful in this!!

I am located in the US, and my 2009 Electra AVL came stock with the 5-3/4" (or thereabouts) aimable headlight.  I replaced that OEM ring and sealed beam with this cheap third party aftermarket item from amazon... the page is still active but the seller says it is currently unavailable:  https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00HK0SRWG/ref=oh_aui_search_detailpage?ie=UTF8&psc=1

As you all know, the above part (like the Hitchcocks one among others) has a reflector cone thingie which takes an H4 bulb.  My headlight bulb electrical connectors (OEM) are three independent wires, each with a spade-type plugs which attach to the bulb (sealed beam and/or H4).  Even with the stock setup, those connectors had to significantly bend out of the way of the speedo cable.

For the past couple years I have ran either Phillips H4 60/55w bulbs, or PIAA high output bulb of the same wattage.  The LED I installed yesterday from SuperbrightLED's appears much much brighter than either of the halogens, but unfortunately I'm having the space issue and can't close the headlight ring.  Technically it is closed now just for buttoning-up purposes, but I had to disconnect the speedo cable to do so. 

I purchased these auxiliary LED clusters from Amazon which people seem to be raving about.  I rode with somebody a year back who had them and they are hellabright, but I don't think they're focused enough to replace an actual headlight beam.  My purposes are mainly for extra visibility, but they'll be great for dusky trail riding or nighttime twisties:  https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01EJWB62U/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o01_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

I think I might give a shot at turning the heat sink backwards with the SBLed H4 bulb... hoping it can cram beside the speedo cable, but I still have my doubts.  I will also contact Hitchcocks for that extended ring, but I don't want to spend a ton of money for this solution.  I might be more likely to cut into the 7" reflector thingie to try and push the bulb itself forward a bit.  I know that will effect the beam pattern, but that's less of a concern since I'll be throwing so much light with the aux clusters anyway. 

Thanks for the additional info, and keep the suggestions coming.  This thread will be timeless for all Enfielders.

Cheers,
Chuck

[Bert Remington]

Superchuck -- super price on super lights.  That's about what I paid for shipping my SBL fog light.

I'm exaggerating only a little.  The SBL fog light is DOT approved for on-road use while your work lights are off-road only.  In spite of the expense (SBL is value-for-money -- I'm a happy repeat customer) I chose my approach for the following reasons (not criticizing yours, just helping you understand mine):

(1) Priorities 1,2,3 -- I want to maintain the classic RE look to the extent my wallet stretches
(2) this is my fair weather, mostly daytime, 55mph surface roads motorcycle and I'm retired so not a critical daily driver
(3) my fears come from the rear not the front -- in East County red lights are an advisory not a mandate
(4) I wanted a wide, sharp-cutoff, high-K, low-wattage LED beam aimed-high for my DRL (my pictures were intentionally below the hot spot for photography reasons) that would be noticed by drivers in front of me but not so much by LEOs

Am I successful?  I think so.  That amber headlight provides adequate city and rural I-follow-cars nighttime illumination while looking like Lucas PoD electrics.  So grins all around.  This motorcycle attracts SO MUCH wistful attention.  Although I just discovered the low-interest benefits of a share-secured loan.   The only tough question the LO had was "Is that all you want?"

Ball is back in your court:

(1) post pictures.
(2) send details to product reviewer Bmadd34.

[Superchuck]

I'VE SOLVED IT!!!!

Whelp, maybe....

So the problem is that the H4 LED bulb (actually its heat sink) sticks out too far in the back.  And a shorter reflector/housing could solve this. 

So you know what could also potentially solve this?  What if we just move the bulb forward in the same reflector housing? 

Yeah, something's got to give, so get out your tin-snips or hacksaw, but this might not be as bad as you think.  Of course, if I mess this up, I'm either out a $40 LED bulb, or a headlight reflector housing (which may cost from $20-100) I forget what I got mine for.  Who cares, let's do it!  I'll be the test pig on this one. 

My fanless H4 LED from SBL has a flimsy plastic rim/plate which marries up to the headlight reflector housing.  Other bulbs I have seen have this same "H4-shaped" plate, but are often aluminum.

So here's what I'm going to do.... I'll take my tin-snips and trim that plastic plate down, so it now slides right through and further into the headlight housing.  At least how mine is constructed, the heat sink is wider than that H4 mounting hole, and my plan is to cram that right up against the back edge of my reflector housing.  The normal H4 bulb clips won't hold it in place, so I'll add some additional wire and maybe some rubber bands if I want to be truly elegant.  I am hoping that the fins on the heat sink as they are crammed against the edges of the housing will prevent my bulb from rotating while my bike shakes its way down the interstate.

On my bulb, the heat sink is about 1/2" back from the H4 plate, so I think that could potentially give me just the clearance I need to get it to fit with a normal headlight ring and the OEM speedo cable. 

This will definitely change the beam pattern thrown by my reflector, but I don't care horribly much.  It's probably illegal too, so take this with a grain of salt.  I'm just a hobbyist brainstorming to solve a problem. 

Attached is a diagram of what I'm thinking...


----------------------------------------

RE: my auxiliary light clusters:  yes, they're super cheap.  I hope they work, but many people have had good luck for them.  I'm not really concerned with keeping my bike period correct, and yes I will be mounting them on top of my handlebars.  I actually was planning on putting one underneath the normal headlight like you (Bert) did, but I think mine might be just a little too wide for that.  Haven't measured though.

I live in Baltimore, and I commute on I-95 towards DC.  It's one of the most harrowing autoways in the country.  Because of the population density and the traffic, nobody gets pulled over for things like non-DOT lights, etc.  Also, I love living in Baltimore City because you don't get pulled over for dumb stuff by bored officers.  I love this town, and needless to say, our officers are not bored. 

I'm more concerned with my personal safety, and more lights means more safer.  I also plan to aim the LED clusters down at the road in front of me to have more visibility... it'll help cars zooming up behind me at 85mph hopefully see me and swerve in time.  That said, when I'm on a Sunday ride through the small towns and twisties, I will be sure to keep my non-DOT (somewhat blinding) aux clusters in their 'off' position.

I love the look of the amber or yellowed headlights, but since I'm planning to run these LED clusters anyway, I went with the super-white.  To each his own.  I realize most Enfielders love the bikes for the history, and want to preserve that about them.  I may be that way in a few years, and everything I've modified on my bike, I've kept the OEM parts in a box in my basement in order to do a full restore if I feel like it someday.

For a tail light, I am using a housing from Dime City Cycles (of questionable quality), but I recently crammed this light into it:  https://www.radiantz.com/Harley-Davidson-Bullet-style-turn-signals-p/00073-hdts.htm .  The LED cluster is from Radiantz and it is way brighter than a stock incandescent.  I have a second LED cluster that came with it, and I plan to mount that to my bike under a fender or something.  It's an 1157 dual function LED cluster, red-then-brighter-red, so I use it as a brake light.

Do you guys think my DIY trimming of the LED headlight bulb will work?

Any other crazy ideas floating around out there? 

Fingers crossed!!!!

Cheers,
Chuck

[Bert Remington]

Superchuck -- I think all four solutions (H4 bulb, work lights, brake cluster, 2nd cluster) are a great match for your intended use.  I know that part of I-95 from a decade ago and I also know traffic is neither lighter nor gentler since then.  It would be great if there was an Aerostich Roadcrafter or R-3 suit under your Xmas tree.  If not perhaps an airbag jacket or vest.

WRT to work lights, I think putting them in the same horizontal plane and aiming them about 30 degrees off-axis would improve your noticeability for oncoming and side lane drivers plus helping illuminate pedestrian, etc hazards on Baltimore's surface streets.  Since work lights tend to spread vertically as well as horizontally, I'm thinking with handlebar mount maybe depressing 15 degrees.  Unless their specification specifically says they are dimmable, intensity modulators won't work.  Same with SBL H4.

WRT brake cluster, that is a very tidy solution although price in in my fog light territory.  I kept the RE doghouse but installed the biggest Red LED 1157 that would fit.  Turns license plate red but its illuminated so I'm sure LEOs will let it go.  For your second cluster I suggest a brake light flasher.  Timers.Shop has a programmable version (aka XDP on Amazon?) if you want to create your own light show.  Programming is very easy -- you don't need the button board if you have steady hands and can follow instructions.

I'm adding SBL's https://www.superbrightleds.com/moreinfo/truck-oval-lamps/oval-led-truck-and-trailer-light-6-led-braketurntail-lights-w-24-high-flux-leds-3-pin-connector/1588/3658/ below the license plate as my second brake light.  Yeah kind of a compromise on traditional look but a few weeks ago on the Mission Gorge SUV raceway, there was a white pickup behind me as I approached an intersection.  The light turned Red which I stopped for but a white pickup blew by me through the Red.  I looked behind me again -- no white pickup.

I'll send pictures when I've installed it -- you do the same.

[Adrian II]

I don't know if they're available in the USA, but Wipac Quadoptic H4 headlamp units are a little shallower than other makes, which gives a few extra millimeters clearance. Part # HLW4701 or S4701 for you strange folks who insist on driving on the right. LHD = right hand dip.

https://bullmotifminispares.com/1875/lhd_wipac_halogen_headlight_s4701

UK price quoted, looks like they will ship.

http://www.norbsa02.freeuk.com/goffylighting.htm

A.

[Ergyd]

Nice outside-the-box thinking, Superchuck.

Any chance that the effectiveness of the heatsink could be compromised by being in such close proximity to the headlight?

[Superchuck]

Bert,  I've thought of using those truck lights myself in the past... do share with us your results!

Adrian, those headlight (reflector housings?) look fairly affordable, even considering shipping.  Do you have one on your bike which you could pull a couple measurements to which others could compare?  That would be a simple solution, especially since most Enfielders buy aftermarket units like those so they can use H4 bulbs.

Ergyd, Thanks! But yes, that is one of my fears about this little invention.  I do not think that moving the heat sink (1/2 inch) will result in significantly less air flow.  However, now that you point it out, would the heat sink now be 'extra heated' since more of it is touching the reflector?  Perhaps that is why SBL designed their LED H4 bulb with a rubbery plastic mounting plate, so to better insulate against heat from the reflector? 

Perhaps I will add a bit of rubber between the heat sink and its new reflector bedfellow to help keep it cool. 

On the other hand, worst case scenario is the bulb burns out quicker.  That would be less than ideal, but not the end of the world.

Cheers,
Chuck

[Ergyd]

I've been looking at the shallow reflector unit, too... Though I don't have one myself, I've put the dimensions they specify on the website on a cropped version of your schematic, Chuck!

It was the build-up of heat which I was worried about, not the air flow... A rubber barrier of some sort might help I guess...  Some form of rubber grommet, or lining around the edge of the hole in the reflector?

[heloego]

   If your reflector is glass there should not be a problem with the heat from the LED heat sink, as the LED unit itself will produce very little heat to transmit through the glass. If the reflector is plastic you definitely want some sort of insulation between the heat sink and the reflector.
   Skip the rubber bands. The heat from the unit will wear them out in almost no time at all.
   Use wire (.020"-.25") to fasten the assembly after aligning the light to the reflector, and keep us informed.
   I've already received my GPS Speedo, so clearance won't be a problem for my AVL Electra.

[Adrian II]

Just had a thought, guys, if you move the LED "bulb" or the H4 quartz halogen item forward in the unit from its original set position you will change and probably destroy the focus of the light unit. Ever since the the development of the pre-focus headlamp bulbs they have been in a fixed position for a reason.

I have used the left-hand dip version of the Wipac, the beam pattern was fine (in UK traffic), although I ought to mention that the fixed bulb holder (see above) worked loose in mine! It's still kicking around the garage, I will try and get some measurements off it.

A.

[Superchuck]

Ergyd, thanks for the info- am I correct that the dimensions you posted are from the Wipac unit?  Or is that a standard shaped 7" headlight?

Heloego, good to know.  I think my reflector is glass.  I may put a rubber bushing or washer between it and the heat sink regardless just to prevent rattle etc.

Adrian, I totally agree with you... I have that same fear that moving the bulb will cause undesirable beam patterns since it is not designed for those aletered geometries.  Thing is I'm going to try it anyway... If it really stinks I can always make a new 'h4 shaped plate' with a donut hole cut in it, and go order an extended headlight ring. However, my situation is somewhat unique since I'll also be throwing forward 4000 lumens of flood light led clusters in addition to my headlight bulb.

In one of your previous links today I also read that the seller believes many Led bulbs have bad beam patterns.  It makes sense... They light up in a very directional way, while a traditional halogen omnidirectional glow is what our reflector cones were designed for.

So much science!  My brain is sore and wants to cut things.  Specifically H4 led bulbs to hopefully fit into my Royal Enfield.

Perhaps tomorrow after work I will be able to do it.

Many thanks to all, and keep the suggestions coming!

Chuck

[Ergyd]

Correct - Wipac dimensions. According to the website, they're 12mm shorter than standard... As I don't have one, I can't check if that's 12mm shorter overall, including a shallower glass dome, or 12mm shorter at the rear of the reflector - which is what we need!

Hopefully Adrian can clear this up for us.

I'll be in the garage tomorrow, so I'll take some pics and measurements of my setup.

[Superchuck]

Question:

On these bikes (probably the same for all motorcycles everywhere I assume), when you switch from low beam to high beam, does that ignite the second filament IN ADDITION to the low beam filament?  Or does it turn ON the high filament while turning OFF the low filament?

I'm planning to do this trimmed H4 bulb experiment tonight, and I'm also going to wire my aux LED clusters off of the normal headlight switch (if HI beam is selected, they'll be on, if LOW beam is selected, they'll be off).

Many thanks!

Chuck

[Bert Remington]

Low beam is separate and independent +12 from High beam but they share a common ground.

I use an ISO relay to control my visibility LED.  Headlight switch Off=LED off H4 off; Park=LED on H4 off; Headlight=H4 on LED off.  I use the ground-through-low-resistance incandescent filament trick to control the relay coil.  It probably won't work for your LED H4.  Don't forget about the Yellow High beam flasher which bypasses the headlight switch.

Details: in my C5 casquette, there are extra Gray and Black wires intended for a parking light in the headlight shell.  I connected Black to LED Black.  I connected Gray to Relay 30 and 86.  I connected Relay 87 to LED Red.  I connected Relay 85 to the wire that is between Headlight On and High/Low Beam so either beam On deactivates the relay (because +12 on both Relay 85 and 86) thereby turning off the visibility LED.  If I took pictures they are still in the camera.

[Superchuck]

Thanks for the info,

Your setup is pretty cool.  I am basically a novice at electrical, although I've troubleshooted my fair share of gremlins on this AVL.  I didn't know much about ISO Relays, so googled it... here's some interesting info for anyone else in my same boat:  https://www.12voltplanet.co.uk/relay-guide.html

At the moment my right-hand control cluster is misbehaving, so I put back in the stateside 'headlight jumper' which bypasses that lighting toggle.  Someday I will get around to fixing it or replacing it.  Maybe.  It's good enough for now, I just can't go 'stealth mode' at the moment. 

Thanks for the reminder about the hi-beam flash trigger.  Does that essentially do the same thing (circuitwise) as flipping the hi-beam switch on and off very quickly? 

Thanks!
Chuck