Author Topic: India fireball update  (Read 8174 times)

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rep_movsd

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on: October 20, 2017, 05:27:07 pm
My bike (fireball head #13) has been on blocks for a long time now, I had taken it apart completely to fix a loose cam spindle (which obviously requires splitting the engine and taking the right side crankcase to a machinist to repair the worn out hole, by inserting a bush.

I was told that the adjustable cam spindles tend to not rest their ends properly in the timing case and high lift cams can tend to make them wear out the hole.
I went ahead with non-adjustable ones after the repair

Also added an aluminum swing arm, Hagons, Lithium battery and boyer brandsen ignition, continental GT rims and tires (on the standard hubs)

I'd put the engine together but left it on the shelf for almost a year. Three months back I finally got the engine fitted in the frame and started.

Then I got busy with other things (including a kidney stone :( ), and finally spent all of this week finishing up the bike.

I finally got 99% of it done now, everything except the meters, tail light and the blinkers. The bike weighs 154 KG now (without clutch side oil). I can still take off another 2 to 3 KG after my cosmetic mods, which will make this bike one of the lightest Enfields I know of.

I thought, OK, its good enough to test ride around the block and see.
But the damn thing wont start :(

Fuels fine, air is fine, carb is exactly same as when it started before, spark is solid, battery is full, timing is unchanged from before...
Tappets are not too tight, spin freely. Compression is good...

I spent an hour changing plugs, fiddling with the air and idle screws, disconnecting everything except the ignition coil, cranking away like a madman, but nothing works...

Once or twice it fired for 1 stroke but failed to catch. Once it backfired through the carb.

The only difference between now and the time it started is that then there was no muffler nor air filter when I tested.

What now?

Thanks in advance


Arizoni

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Reply #1 on: October 20, 2017, 07:43:29 pm
The only thing that comes to mind is to suggest that you double or triple check the cams timing and the ignition timing.

Is it possible the ignition timing is 180° out?



Jim
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rep_movsd

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Reply #2 on: October 20, 2017, 08:14:28 pm
Hmm that's a thought - I don't recall opening up the timing cover since the last time it started, but well at this point I will try anything....


cyrusb

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Reply #3 on: October 20, 2017, 08:41:03 pm
If the plug is wet, it is as Arizoni says. It has to be the timing. You have compression and spark, if the plug is wet it has to be timing. You should never have to kick that oil lamp more than 3 times to know whats wrong. Good luck.
2005E Fixed and or Replaced: ignition, fenders,chainguard,wires,carb,headlight,seat,tailight,sprockets,chain,shock springs,fork springs, exhaust system, horn,shifter,clutch arm, trafficators,crankcase vent.


dginfw

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Reply #4 on: October 21, 2017, 05:49:36 am
The boyer ignition seems less forgiving of timing error than the mechanical points set up. It has to exact or starting will be fussy
Dave in TX:   '01  W650- keeper
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rep_movsd

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Reply #5 on: October 21, 2017, 09:17:54 am
After some debugging today, I believe its a fuelling issue, I dont seem to be getting fuel in the cylinder head - hardly any smell of petrol when cranking with the sparkplug out...

Will disassemble the carb tomorrow

Also some oil is getting into the clutch case from near the crankshaft... Is my crankshaft seal busted, or is it normal to get a bit?


Bullet Whisperer

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Reply #6 on: October 21, 2017, 09:42:32 am
After some debugging today, I believe its a fuelling issue, I dont seem to be getting fuel in the cylinder head - hardly any smell of petrol when cranking with the sparkplug out...
I doubt you would smell petrol under those circumstances - with the plug out, the cylinder will not be able to draw any fuel / air mixture in  ;)
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ace.cafe

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Reply #7 on: October 21, 2017, 09:48:46 am
Very old fuel can laquer up and clog the carb. It needs to be cleaned out of the carb and fresh fuel used.

No visible amount of oil should pass the crank seal into the primary case.

If you suspect timing issues, verify that the plug fires just prior to TDC when slowly turning the engine with the plug out.

Home of the Fireball 535 !


cyrusb

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Reply #8 on: October 21, 2017, 01:31:36 pm
Interesting, #1, Plug must be in the cylinder to determine fueling problems. #2 After a total disassembly how can the timing be unchanged from before? There are no keys etc or timing marks on that timing shaft gear. You must have confirmed your static timing before you tried to start it right?
2005E Fixed and or Replaced: ignition, fenders,chainguard,wires,carb,headlight,seat,tailight,sprockets,chain,shock springs,fork springs, exhaust system, horn,shifter,clutch arm, trafficators,crankcase vent.


1 Thump

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Reply #9 on: October 21, 2017, 07:45:53 pm
Check the pilot jet. It takes very little to clog that up. Carb clean is in order.


rep_movsd

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Reply #10 on: October 22, 2017, 12:30:21 pm
Interesting, #1, Plug must be in the cylinder to determine fueling problems. #2 After a total disassembly how can the timing be unchanged from before? There are no keys etc or timing marks on that timing shaft gear. You must have confirmed your static timing before you tried to start it right?

As I mentioned before, the bike had started fine a few weeks back....

I'll clean the carb and see...

Need to change the crankshaft seal too then.


cyrusb

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Reply #11 on: October 22, 2017, 01:36:06 pm
As I mentioned before, the bike had started fine a few weeks back....

I'll clean the carb and see...

Need to change the crankshaft seal too then.
Sorry, I did not see that it ran after the teardown  mentioned in your post.  Plug wet yet?
2005E Fixed and or Replaced: ignition, fenders,chainguard,wires,carb,headlight,seat,tailight,sprockets,chain,shock springs,fork springs, exhaust system, horn,shifter,clutch arm, trafficators,crankcase vent.


rep_movsd

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Reply #12 on: October 23, 2017, 11:12:02 pm
So I cleaned the carb and the choke was stuck closed...

I also noticed that the plug wire I have doesn't contact the plug correctly without the little nut on top.

Whatever it was, the bike did fire up, but only if I opened the throttle quickly ... It's not at all idling and the sound is very racuous, some spitting and backfiring happens when the throttle is closed, flame was visible thru the carb.

I have the TM 32 with the P2 needlejet and 35 pilot and a 175 mainjet - This was running perfectly fine before....

It sounds like the spark is extremely off normal - retarded because its making a flat slapping sound and turning over much more slowly than one would expect.

I will try recentering the boyer again tommorow as close to TDC as possible





rep_movsd

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Reply #13 on: October 25, 2017, 10:26:00 pm
I recentered the Boyer, double checked the wiring, tried a new plug cable, still wont start.

Next step - try a fresh battery, and if that fails, get back to the points ignition tomorrow and try again!


rep_movsd

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Reply #14 on: October 26, 2017, 02:26:30 pm
Fitted the points back again, and the bike starts and idles just fine!

Dunno what went wrong with the Boyer, I will try again after I run a few 1000 KM and sure that everything is fine otherwise.

Meanwhile, is it normal to get some air getting pumped from the crankcase into the clutch case? I noticed a fair breeze coming out when testing, after swapping the oil seal and the clutch cover was not completely tightened.

Logically speaking, air would be flowing out of the drive side bearing and past the oil seal right?
I suppose with the duckbill breather on, a partial vacuum would form and this would stop?

Is this normal or is there something wrong?