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October 19, 2017, 02:22:46 am

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Author Topic: New member tinkering  (Read 655 times)

shotgunbill

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New member tinkering
« on: October 01, 2017, 11:26:13 pm »
G'day kids
Long time owner and sandbagger from the Gong in the Illawarra Australia
For some reason I couldn't register here but tada! I eventually worked it out
So I bought "Chitty" short for chitty chitty bang bang back in 2013
C5 maroon/chrome classic 500
I had extended warranty and that's ran out so Ive been hassling wildbill on his YouTube vids about silencers and ejk
Anyways I'm now running a glasswool mini punjab from rotella and installed the ejk a few weeks ago and have dialled it in pretty good I'd say
Tuning and jetting motox bikes since I was a grasshopper so I know enough to be dangerous:)
Now Ive been in contact with ace about his filter canister as in my optinion the stock air box is good for a boat anchor
Never seen something designed so stupid to filter from the inside to a hole in the corner to the efi throttle body hoping that a piece of plastic is keeping everything sealed ( which it doesn't Ive noticed dust inside the inlet and surrounding the inlet hole)
Anyways that's my rant
If your still reading I'm thinking of drilling/tapping/ welding a 10mm stainless bard into aces canister and plumbing the crank breather back to it
I barely get any oil residue in the stock box now and my method of madness is any gases/ pressure would be going back into the air flow upstream
Anybody got any ideas on this being good or bad
Anyways keep the shiny side up
Cheers
Allan

« Last Edit: October 01, 2017, 11:29:22 pm by shotgunbill »

Chilliman

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Re: New member tinkering
« Reply #1 on: October 02, 2017, 05:22:55 pm »
Gday mate and welcome,
I would contact Ace about doing any mods to his stuff.
The crankcase on the UCE can blow oil with considerable into the nether regions of the motor.
My personal experience with having the tiniest amount of excess oil in the crank and that filter housing just fills up.
I have this gut feeling that crankcase pressure would just love to blow a "gossamer" of oil vapour up that breather and have it's evil way.
I have no proof of that and Iv'e been wrong about almost everything to do with the UCE so far, so you may as well start with the villiage idiot and work your way up.
I'm riding my C5 like a motorbike now. No silk gloves or pampering.
Did a run out the Arnhem Highway and Roy sits on 110kms very happily.
The speedo didn't like it though...........   

ace.cafe

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Re: New member tinkering
« Reply #2 on: October 02, 2017, 06:01:14 pm »
A fast acting PCV valve on the breather outlet, and a short hose directed to the chain.



Do not run the breather hose into the air canister.

Fragman

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Re: New member tinkering
« Reply #3 on: October 02, 2017, 06:13:32 pm »
G'day kids
Long time owner and sandbagger from the Gong in the Illawarra Australia
For some reason I couldn't register here but tada! I eventually worked it out
So I bought "Chitty" short for chitty chitty bang bang back in 2013
C5 maroon/chrome classic 500
I had extended warranty and that's ran out so Ive been hassling wildbill on his YouTube vids about silencers and ejk
Anyways I'm now running a glasswool mini punjab from rotella and installed the ejk a few weeks ago and have dialled it in pretty good I'd say
Tuning and jetting motox bikes since I was a grasshopper so I know enough to be dangerous:)
Now Ive been in contact with ace about his filter canister as in my optinion the stock air box is good for a boat anchor
Never seen something designed so stupid to filter from the inside to a hole in the corner to the efi throttle body hoping that a piece of plastic is keeping everything sealed ( which it doesn't Ive noticed dust inside the inlet and surrounding the inlet hole)
Anyways that's my rant
If your still reading I'm thinking of drilling/tapping/ welding a 10mm stainless bard into aces canister and plumbing the crank breather back to it
I barely get any oil residue in the stock box now and my method of madness is any gases/ pressure would be going back into the air flow upstream
Anybody got any ideas on this being good or bad
Anyways keep the shiny side up
Cheers
Allan

G'day Allan

I got the same bike as your one and I fixed the airbox sealing problem on 'er by first removing that abortion of a filter retaining stud and replacing it with a full threaded 5/16"
bolt to allow it to secure filters that are shorter in height than stock.

I also added a 1/8" closed cell polyurethane gasket to the base of the plastic airbox to ensure
that dust can't get in. I then cut and routed the engine breather tube to the upper, underside of the chain guard to direct the oily emissions toward the chain & sealed off the engine breather port in the filter housing to finish 'er off.

This fix works great fer me, and I now have a well sealed intake that denies entry of dust into the motor and blows the oily engine emissions onto the fookin' chain where they belong. ;D
« Last Edit: October 02, 2017, 06:16:48 pm by Fragman »
Nothing better than a nice putt on an RE.
It's a serene way to travel at an unhurried pace.

-2013 Classic Maroon-

shotgunbill

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Re: New member tinkering
« Reply #4 on: October 02, 2017, 10:10:42 pm »
Hey guys thanks for the replies
Some good ideas there
Has me thinking its fate just to vent the crankcase towards the chain

wildbill

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Re: New member tinkering
« Reply #5 on: October 03, 2017, 02:32:17 am »
welcome to the forum ;D
2011 C5 black/chrome
2012 C5 maroon/chrome 
2013 B5 black
2014 Continental gt
2014 C5 tan
2015 black/chrome
2015 limited edition dispatch
2016 lagoon blue 500
2016  ash white 350
2017 graphite/chrome 500 -awaiting pickup

shotgunbill

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Re: New member tinkering
« Reply #6 on: October 04, 2017, 01:16:37 am »
So I got to the auto parts store
Asked for a pcv and picked one up
Hooked into the breather hose and pointed downwards towards the chain
Capped off the inlet to the  airbox
Well that's ticked off the list
Time to go back into the tinkercave see what the
Next project can be

gashousegorilla

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Re: New member tinkering
« Reply #7 on: October 04, 2017, 07:44:44 pm »
   You know.... the only time you are going to get oil on that air filter on a stock bike is if you over fill the crack case with oil  or your rings are shot.  Just sayin'....
 
  I would use chain lube on that chain, instead of over filling your crank case and relying on that.  ;D   If you put a gauge on your crank case, you will find there is very little, if any positive pressure at that vent... even at as the RPM's come up.   It fluctuates around ZERO.    AT sustained HIGH RPM's you be pulling a slight negative pressure through the STOCK air box, with that crank vent hose connected to it.   A bit of negative pressure is not a bad thing in that crank case....

     An exhaust crank case evacuation system might be interesting to try on one of these bikes ?   Ummmm.... I might have to play around with that this winter ?
   
An thaibhsí atá rattling ag an doras agus tá sé an diabhal sa chathaoir.

Fragman

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Re: New member tinkering
« Reply #8 on: October 04, 2017, 11:34:28 pm »
   You know.... the only time you are going to get oil on that air filter on a stock bike is if you over fill the crack case with oil  or your rings are shot.  Just sayin'....
 
  I would use chain lube on that chain, instead of over filling your crank case and relying on that.  ;D   If you put a gauge on your crank case, you will find there is very little, if any positive pressure at that vent... even at as the RPM's come up.   It fluctuates around ZERO.    AT sustained HIGH RPM's you be pulling a slight negative pressure through the STOCK air box, with that crank vent hose connected to it.   A bit of negative pressure is not a bad thing in that crank case....

     An exhaust crank case evacuation system might be interesting to try on one of these bikes ?   Ummmm.... I might have to play around with that this winter ?
 

The stock setup on me C5 allowed for a fair oily blackening of my air filter in the area of the breather tube entrance at around 8,000 km. I never overfilled 'er & max revs never got beyond 4500 rpm or so. No need to do any voodoo on these motors as far as basic venting of the crankcase is concerned for just boppin' around. For sustained high speed use, a larger diameter blow by tube without a PCV valve would be just fine. Aim the bastard out back where it belongs.

Of course, sustained high speed is not what these machines are designed fer. ;D



Nothing better than a nice putt on an RE.
It's a serene way to travel at an unhurried pace.

-2013 Classic Maroon-

gashousegorilla

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Re: New member tinkering
« Reply #9 on: October 05, 2017, 06:26:04 pm »
   Speak for yourself ... ;D

  Interesting ?    I have a stock bike here in the garage with 50k MILES  that doesn't do it at sustained cruising speeds over 4K rpms.    Not to mention that other one I got with a weeee bit more then a stock motor motor in it , that don't do it at sustained high speeds.  THAT'S the one that might a crank case evacuation system. ;)   

 
An thaibhsí atá rattling ag an doras agus tá sé an diabhal sa chathaoir.

ace.cafe

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Re: New member tinkering
« Reply #10 on: October 10, 2017, 07:27:28 am »
My opinion is that even if we don't see any oil blowing out, that it is still a fact that 500cc of air is still being pumped in and out of that hole hundreds/thousands of times per minute, or else there is some kind of pressurizing going on. Neither of these is good, and a simple PCV valve can help the situation, so why not have it? It's cheap, easy, and causes no harm.
My 2 cents.

Fragman

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Re: New member tinkering
« Reply #11 on: October 10, 2017, 09:25:18 pm »
My opinion is that even if we don't see any oil blowing out, that it is still a fact that 500cc of air is still being pumped in and out of that hole hundreds/thousands of times per minute, or else there is some kind of pressurizing going on. Neither of these is good, and a simple PCV valve can help the situation, so why not have it? It's cheap, easy, and causes no harm.
My 2 cents.

I reckoned the same thing and added a PCV valve to my one to be on the safe side as far as pulling crud up the breather tube may be concerned. However, when I pulled my old tube & swabbed out the tube where it exits the crankcase, there was only a hint of smudge on the Q-Tip. On the outlet end of tube, the oily goo flung by the chain had gone a few inches up the bugger leading me to conclude that my initial mod needed a rethink.

First off, if one wants to run a breather tube on an RE, best to mount the tube exit on the top of the chain guard rather than under the unit & keep the overall length to around a foot or so to keep dirt and debris from possibly getting pulled up into the crankcase by pumping action.( There ain't alot of pumping action on these engines breather wise, due to the full round flywheels on the crank. Windage problems should be minimal unless the piston rings are on their way out.)

Either way, one could go with a long breather tube on a UCE or a short tube and PVC to get  decent results for the uses one intends for the machine.
Nothing better than a nice putt on an RE.
It's a serene way to travel at an unhurried pace.

-2013 Classic Maroon-

Chilliman

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Re: New member tinkering
« Reply #12 on: October 11, 2017, 01:14:40 am »
Exhaust crankcase evacuation system..................drain excess oil onto the chain....................

I might be a dreamer, but that evacuation system sounds sensible to me.
Proven to work, system is easy to fit and people might wonder what the hell it is.
Tell 'em you run a secondary oxygen sensor  :)

Arizoni

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Re: New member tinkering
« Reply #13 on: October 11, 2017, 05:46:46 pm »
As I've said before, the crankcase ventilation system on the UCE 500's is excellent and, IMO, it does not need a crankcase ventilator added to the vent hose.

As for the 500cc piston blowing out a lot of air goes, that is very true with the Iron Barrel and the AVL's which both have very small volume crankcases under the piston.
There isn't a lot of room for the air to escape to so some rather radical pressure pulses exist in the area.

The UCE on the other hand does not have a small volume crankcase under the piston.
It's volume is quite large.

The engine uses the transmission cavity and both side cases, the volume of the push rod tunnel and rocker arm covers as well as the oil sump volume to spread the pressures caused by the descending piston.

When the engine is running, yes, some air comes out of the crankcase/transmission/side cases/oil sump area thru the vent hose but it soon becomes a stabilized, rapidly pulsating pressure.

It isn't like the entire volume of the cylinder was actually exiting and re-entering the crankcase with every stroke of the piston.

After this stabilization of the air pressure is reached, the only gasses that escape thru the vent hose are those that blow past the piston rings.
Jim
2011 G5 Deluxe
1999 Miata 10th Anniversary

oTTo

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Re: New member tinkering
« Reply #14 on: October 13, 2017, 04:50:53 am »
Leaving all the technical aspects aside, my observation with the PCV installed is that my rocker covers stopped sweating oil. Therefore I like it.