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Author Topic: Waking up an AVL  (Read 2245 times)

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MagnusMaximus

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on: August 01, 2017, 12:55:44 pm
So, almost 10 years ago I bought an AVL-engined Bullet 500. Then life happened, and it got parked almost immediately, while I moved to the other side of the world. I have a Japanese 4cyl now as my main ride, have owned a ton of other bikes in the meantime, but I'd like to wake up the old Bullet from its garage slumber.

The bike is an 08, with something like 72 miles on it.

Unfortunately it seems like between then and now, the aftermarket for these has almost completely dried up. Can anyone recommend reputable Indian sites for things not sold by our hosts? 

Research seems to say that these bikes were pretty choked up from the factory, so from what I've read so far, it sounds like it's almost de rigeur to rejet or replace the carb, do away with the massive air filter inside the right toolbox, and replace the entire exhaust assembly (header pipe and gigantic torpedo muffler) in order to restore this bike to the basic state of tune the designers originally envisioned.

Is a TM32 with Ace can the clear and obvious choice? Where would I find the little bits to make this work, like manifolds, boots, throttle cables? 

I guess my noob side is definitely showing itself. Everyone says "if you change out the exhaust you will have to upjet," and of course I quite understand this, but it all seems very vague since everyone seems to be using different silencers, different carbs. I just want to get my bike back on the road, running decently, without spending 2-3k trying various combinations. (That might come later.) Since the bike is a clean slate, 100%  factory, is there an optimal way to proceed?

Also, what's the agreed wisdom regarding the sprag? I have a black TCI box, and of course the exhaust valve decompressor. Can the thing be safely started, ridden, and stopped with this setup? Seems the optimal (or at least most drastic) solution is an Iron barrel decomp/chainsaw decomp, and removing e-start entirely... with a green or "performance" TCI. But I kind of hate to pull the head on what's effectively a new bike.

Sorry if I sound petulant, just trying to plan the best method of attack. 




heloego

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Reply #1 on: August 02, 2017, 06:38:43 am
Hi, and welcome to the REal world.  :)
!
   Any good free-flowing exhaust system (my '06 has a Gold Star) makes a BIG difference in performance.

   And you definitely will get some excellent jetting advice in the following threads. Mikuni seems to dominate, but you'll see settings for a lot of different altitudes and temps, so there should be something there for you.

https://forum.classicmotorworks.com/index.php/topic,24551.0.html

https://forum.classicmotorworks.com/index.php/topic,16053.msg174102.html#msg174102
« Last Edit: August 02, 2017, 06:42:16 am by heloego »
'18 Bonneville T-100, Blue/White
'12 C5 Classic
'06 Electra X AVL w/32mm Mikuni and Gold Star system.


DanB

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Reply #2 on: August 02, 2017, 07:16:38 pm
Welcome!  Nice you have that low mileage avl sitting there!

Here's what I would do with it if it were mine:

Every 1st: change all fluids. Put full pint of slippery stuff in the primary case; helps the sprag.

1. Check change the rubber stuff. Especially the intake manifold.

2. Remove and plug up all the PAV crap going from the exhaust side of the head to the PAV and then back to the carb.

3. Remove the silencer and chop out that hot tube in the exhaust pipe. Replace with silencer of choice. Many folks like the gold star. I'm using a cocktail shaker from emgo. It's straight thru and loud.

4. Up jet your carb; pilot to 15 or 17.5; mains to 115 or 120. Get jets from JetsRUs.

5. Now break the motor in slowly.

You can of course change to the TM32. Ace makes a nice alloy intake for it. I'd wait a season and break it in first. Honestly, hindsight being 20/20, I would have updated the rear suspension before the carb. Makes a HUGE difference.

I also pulled all the estart stuff. Saved a good 10-20lbs ;). Easier than losing weight. That is personal preference of course.

Good luck!  Send pics.
Suppose I were an idiot, and suppose I were a member of Congress; but I repeat myself. ... Mark Twain
2006 AVL Electra


ace.cafe

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Reply #3 on: August 03, 2017, 10:15:40 am
B.W. and Adrian seem to prefer larger carb, such as 34 or even 36mm.

The first step IMO, would be to set the squish, just like we do with the UCE. This gives more compression and fights detonation.

Give it a good free flow exhaust, or at least core out the hot tube from the tail of the header.


Adrian II

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Reply #4 on: August 03, 2017, 06:12:16 pm
I tend to use a 36mm carb because I can't bear to leave the inlet port flange with that strange oval shape and take it out to a fully round 36mm, but apart from my own preferences, both the TM32 and VM32 Mikunis have been used very successfully on the Electra-X (same engine) over here as well as on your side of the Atlantic. A few years ago I pointed someone in the direction of the TM32 settings for Ace's original C.I. Fireball conversions, and he assured me they were very successful for the 500 AVL too.

I am a sucker for the looks of the Dell'Orto PHF carbs though, and Malossi make a carb mounting rubber for these with the correct 60mm centers for the AVL inlet flange.

A.
Grumpy Brit still seeking 500 AVL Bullet perfection! Will let you know if I get anywhere near...


MagnusMaximus

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Reply #5 on: August 04, 2017, 02:47:01 pm
Thanks for the thoughts.

I think I will do this in stages.

Roughly, stage 1 being, get it on the road with a freer-flowing exhaust, upjetting the stock carb, and changing all fluids.

Stage 2, upgrade carb and ephemera. Snag some S cams if any come up for sale.

I bought a short bottle silencer and open header pipe from eBay, along with a 7" headlight conversion kit. Now for the waiting game till they get here. I also snagged what appears to be a NOS AVL head, so... not sure what I'll do with it yet but the price seemed very right.

Is it best to leave the stock air filter setup in place with the CV carb, or will I need to open up the air intake somehow? In the Jap bike world, CV carbs are notoriously difficult to tune for pod filters. Don't really relish cutting more holes in my toolbox however.


Adrian II

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Reply #6 on: August 05, 2017, 06:33:59 pm
It does help if you know EXACTLY what you're buying if you're getting stuff from ebay in India.

For starters I have never seen open header pipes for the AVL models on ebay, they have always been for the cast iron models. The AVL pipes have a small ring welded onto the cylinder head end, a loose flange fits over this and is bolted to the head at the exhaust port to secure the top end of the pipe. The AVL pipe also will not have any bracket to fit over the front engine to frame bolt. With the different syle of engine there is no guarantee that the pipe will line up properly, though you might get lucky! If you do you could always cut a 1.75" bore washer from a piece of 1/8" steel plate and get it tack welded onto the pipe at the cylinder head end about 3/4" in from the end of the pipe. I have had this done with high-level pipes intended for the original Redditch Woodsman models.

With the 7" headlamp, did you check to see whether it was left hand or right hand dip? I think India drives on the left still.

Well done if you have scooped a new 500 AVL head, the only one I have seen on ebay recently has been for a 350.

A.
Grumpy Brit still seeking 500 AVL Bullet perfection! Will let you know if I get anywhere near...


1 Thump

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Reply #7 on: August 06, 2017, 02:18:05 pm
I have a TM-32 carb that leaks gas. I ran ethanol for a while through that carb, and some rubber bit got corroded, or so I think. Any case, its yours for $10+ the cost of shipping. PM me.

If Magnus is not interested in it, my offer is open to anyone else interested. Also have a used electronic ignition kit (about 2500 miles on it), for stock bullets. This is the older non-programable version. $10 + shipping.


REpozer

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Reply #8 on: August 06, 2017, 04:12:29 pm
I have a TM-32 carb that leaks gas. I ran ethanol for a while through that carb, and some rubber bit got corroded, or so I think. Any case, its yours for $10+ the cost of shipping. PM me.

If Magnus is not interested in it, my offer is open to anyone else interested. Also have a used electronic ignition kit (about 2500 miles on it), for stock bullets. This is the older non-programable version. $10 + shipping.
My AVL  has electronic ignition stock from the factory. Why are you selling yours?
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1 Thump

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Reply #9 on: August 06, 2017, 07:52:25 pm
My AVL  has electronic ignition stock from the factory. Why are you selling yours?

Its an electronic ignition for the iron barrel.


MagnusMaximus

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Reply #10 on: August 07, 2017, 08:29:55 am
It does help if you know EXACTLY what you're buying if you're getting stuff from ebay in India.

For starters I have never seen open header pipes for the AVL models on ebay, they have always been for the cast iron models. The AVL pipes have a small ring welded onto the cylinder head end, a loose flange fits over this and is bolted to the head at the exhaust port to secure the top end of the pipe. The AVL pipe also will not have any bracket to fit over the front engine to frame bolt. With the different syle of engine there is no guarantee that the pipe will line up properly, though you might get lucky! If you do you could always cut a 1.75" bore washer from a piece of 1/8" steel plate and get it tack welded onto the pipe at the cylinder head end about 3/4" in from the end of the pipe. I have had this done with high-level pipes intended for the original Redditch Woodsman models.

With the 7" headlamp, did you check to see whether it was left hand or right hand dip? I think India drives on the left still.

Well done if you have scooped a new 500 AVL head, the only one I have seen on ebay recently has been for a 350.

A.

Good points.

I'm afraid the header pipe may be a dud, I just assumed (bad idea) that because I have a Bullet (vs Electra) and it was 500cc, the pipe would work. Bad idea obviously. We'll see if the situation is salvageable once the pipe arrives. I can always get a hole saw and attack the stock header, I was simply hoping that a cheapie from India would be less weight, as I've heard the stock item is very robust. On a bike weighing around 400lbs and making 20rwhp, a pound here and there can make a big difference. Pretty sure the silencer I got should work on either pipe, we shall see.

I'd never heard of headlight dip before, made for an illuminating 10 minutes of reading (ha ha.) Fortunately I only bought the trim bits and clips from India, the bulb I will source locally. Haven't quite decided whether I want the serviceable Sylvania from Walmart or the fancy Hella, but I'll decide after I have the rings in hand.

Head came from the eBay store of our hosts in Texas, right here in USA. It was a bit of an impulse buy but as soon as I saw it I knew I'd be kicking myself later if I didn't grab it, if only, as the ad suggested, as man cave sculpture.


Ice

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Reply #11 on: August 07, 2017, 04:01:45 pm
Magnus,

 Site search here for threads about the Harris Scrambler.  It belongs to our brother Bill Harris. Or perhaps he belongs to it. ;)

 Intake, exhaust, cams, the modifications he has done to it are repeatable and not overly expensive.

 It starts easily and idles cleanly. It is a very Spritely machine both quick and fast for a Bullet.
I can break it better,,,,at night, in the rain, on the trail,, 20 miles from nowhere.

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Yamahawk

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Reply #12 on: August 08, 2017, 08:53:10 am
1 Thump,
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Adrian II

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Reply #13 on: August 08, 2017, 03:14:02 pm
The pipe might fit, the outside diameter of the 500 AVL and 500 Iron Barrel exhaust down pipes is the same at 1.75", however as I explained the iron barrel exhaust will still need modifying to be properly secured at the cylinder head.

A spare 500 AVL head is of course fun to play with...









A.
Grumpy Brit still seeking 500 AVL Bullet perfection! Will let you know if I get anywhere near...


DanB

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Reply #14 on: August 08, 2017, 10:48:31 pm
Where did u get the extra head??
Suppose I were an idiot, and suppose I were a member of Congress; but I repeat myself. ... Mark Twain
2006 AVL Electra