[2014BulletC5]

Sorry if this has been banded about already. I did a quick search but didn't come up with much.

I'm wondering about our beloved RE's and antilock brakes. It appears that these bikes are already on the market in Europe and possibly elsewhere. So any word on when the ABS feature will be available in the States?

I asked my closest dealer this question but the salesman really knew nothing much about the bikes in general let alone any upcoming features or changes.

Now I understand some of us won't welcome additional changes to the classic design and/or more mechanical complication. But anything that makes the bike a bit safer--without radically changing the timeless look--is probably a good thing.

[Richard230]

You will know that ABS is coming when you see a Royal Enfield with a disc rear brake.  I believe that they are getting them in Europe, but I have yet to see a B5 with a rear disc brake in the U.S.  My guess is that RENA is still trying to sell their current inventory of 2018-2017 models. 

[2014BulletC5]

Yeah that's probably true. Just guessing but RENA probably fell short of their expected initial sales goals. Wasn't the plan to establish 100 dealerships across the country? They barely have a quarter of that last I checked.

[Rattlebattle]

There was an article in a bike mag recently in which the CEO of RE commented that exports represent only 4% of total sales and that home market customers want the new models first. Also, in another article it was pointed out that RE sales in the States equated to 2 CGT bikes per state average per month, hardly sufficient to warrant their import. Even in the UK the Himalayan has been delayed until October. There are some 2017 bikes in the UK but also a lot of unsold earlier stock. I don't believe the demand is there at the prices asked - a far cry from the cheap and cheerful iron barrel bikes but not sufficient increase in quality to justify the price.

[2014BulletC5]

I don't believe the demand is there at the prices asked - a far cry from the cheap and cheerful iron barrel bikes but not sufficient increase in quality to justify the price.

I believe this has always been RE's biggest hurdle. At least in the States. A rider wanting a first bike to learn on or a second bike to putter around on has some pretty good quality import bikes to choose from. The RE is priced like an entry level Japanese bike yet with less quality. But granted the bike's character is worth something.

[Ice]

 Sooner or later ABS will be mandated on all new bikes, the insurance companies will see to that.

http://www.iihs.org/iihs/news/desktopnews/motorcycles-with-antilock-brakes-have-fewer-fatal-crashes-and-lower-insurance-losses-than-bikes-without-antilocks

[Otto_Ing]

The divine intervention comes next....

http://www.bbc.com/autos/story/20150423-bosch-rides-towards-the-crash-proof-motorbike

https://www.2025ad.com/latest/angela-merkel-driverless-cars/

“In 20 years’ time, we will need a special permit to drive a car ourselves.” - Angela Merkel

So there we go.

[2014BulletC5]

Sooner or later ABS will be mandated on all new bikes, the insurance companies will see to that.

http://www.iihs.org/iihs/news/desktopnews/motorcycles-with-antilock-brakes-have-fewer-fatal-crashes-and-lower-insurance-losses-than-bikes-without-antilocks

If ABS makes rding safer and lowers insurance costs isn't that good?

[Otto_Ing]

If ABS makes rding safer and lowers insurance costs isn't that good?

Does it lower the cost? ABS is not for free, although they make it look that way.

[heloego]

Lest we forget...

   Over the last several decades MANY "Safety Features" have been introduced, including the now ubiquitous ABS on cages and bikes. IMHO these only induce those already inclined to take more risks to have the false impression that A) the additional safety features will save their life so it's OK to push envelope, and B) the Insurance Industry would never lie to us, therefore it must be a good thing.
   ABS will only work well on a dry road and if traveling in a straight line. Any early-rain that has not completely washed off the oils it brought up from asphalt only aggravates the problem. Death valley is the perfect place for ABS on a vehicle. No Rain...EVER, and only very rarely a need for braking.
   I've come to the conclusion (from personal experience) the the only thing true is the "BS" part of ABS.
   And it does not mean Brake System.

   People in cages still get killed in accidents, and riders will still get killed by idiots in cages. A fact of life.
   Follow the money and see who REALLY benefits from all these "safety improvements". Governments, Insurance/Assurance Industry, and Manufacturers.
   
   If you feel you need and are willing to pay the additional for ABS, fine. As long as you keep in mind it will not automatically save your life.
   We're still the "nut behind the wheel" and thus responsible for our own attitudes and actions.

[2014BulletC5]

Sheesh. Looks like I've picked a scab for a couple of you guys.

[Richard230]

The divine intervention comes next....

http://www.bbc.com/autos/story/20150423-bosch-rides-towards-the-crash-proof-motorbike

https://www.2025ad.com/latest/angela-merkel-driverless-cars/

“In 20 years’ time, we will need a special permit to drive a car ourselves.” - Angela Merkel

So there we go.

When will I get my training wheels so that I don't fall over when coming to a stop.     A couple of training wheels would give my motorcycle a total of four wheels and I am sure that would please a lot of bureaucrats.    Then I would be ready for a full enclosure to keep me dry. 

[Blairio]

Lest we forget...

ABS will only work well on a dry road and if traveling in a straight line.

ABS in cars was designed to mimic the best practises of Threshold and Cadence braking when needing to stop smartly, including  on less than ideal surfaces. It has stopped my car crashing into vehicles that decided to randomly pull out on me in wintery conditions.  One of the benefits is that you can still steer with ABS. Try that with locked up wheels.

I ran a 400cc Burgman super-scoot for a few years. It had ABS and could stop on a dime (or a 10penny piece here in the UK) under most conditions.

No doubt someone will figure out how to disable ABS on the Enfields if that's their bag.

[Rattlebattle]

It's no longer true that ABS on bikes only works in a straight line. Several of the more expensive mainstream makes now offer cornering ABS on some of their bikes. It works via an IMU (inertia measurement unit) that senses sideways movement as well as for and aft. Bosch makes it. So now you can blast into a corner in the knowledge that if you need to brake you can, subject to the laws of physics.
Given that France has now decreed that neither petrol nor diesel cars may be sold there after 2040, Renault will soon stop making diesels, Volvo will make hybrid only vehicles etc the future of i/c engines in Europe is not bright. Nobody will need any skills to drive self driving cars; all these modern aids like traction control etc are just a step nearer to this. Glad I'm an old git.....

[Otto_Ing]

I am not that pessimistic about the future of the i/c combustion engine. There is a flipside to every coin, so there is to the safety trend which is pushing all this development. If everything is 100% safe at the same time nothing is safe anymore. All trends end and turn in extremes like a hockey stick chart on the stock market.

[2014BulletC5]

I can make motorcycle ownership as safe (parked in garage never ridden) or as dangerous (pushing myself or bike beyond skill and design limits) as I want.

These don't take into account things I can't control. Weather, road conditions, traffic conditions or animals. Not counting that these variables can change dramatically in hours of darkness or other limited visibility.

Motorcycle riding is all about gauging and adjusting to risk. Sometimes I can gauge the risk (not choosing to ride in heavy rain or at night) and sometimes I can't  (deer crossing the road, little old lady turning across my lane or idiot choosing to pass in a no passing zone.)

ABS might not change my skilz nor will it change the weather or control the deer population. But if it helps me react properly in an emergent situation I can't see much of a downside.

When I was a kid I rode all the time without a helmet. Helmets were for wimps or were the government's way of taking all the fun out of riding. But there's little argument that helmets make riding safer and have saved lives over the decades. Now I can't imagine even getting on a bike without one.

[Otto_Ing]

If an ABS saves the day in an emergency situation would depend on how severe the situation is. ABS cant do much more than a skilled rider can. Where are the statistics of how many fatalities have been caused by the ABS, I want to see the pro and contra?

http://www.4x4community.co.za/forum/showthread.php/24213-ABS-causes-fatal-accident-at-GS-Challenge

Nonetheless I am absolutely no ABS hater, what disgusts me is the mandatory part and the legislation. It's like being put in the wheelchair per decree.

[Craig McClure]

The Insurance companies also want you to put an electronic snitch on your vehicle to make it safer - by monitoring your driving habits.
Many of us already know insurance companies aren't your friend - be wary of anything they wish to foist upon you !   I have survived "primitive seat of the pants" motorcycling for over 50 years, & don't want stinking ABS. Do not give up total control for another automatic gadget.

[Rattlebattle]

But there's little argument that helmets make riding safer and have saved lives over the decades.

Helmets don't make riding safer, they make crashing safer. There's a difference between aids that reduce the risk of crashing and those that assist if you do. Arguably ABS falls into the latter category. In both cases these aids can also increase risk because of the perceived reduction in potential harm should the worst happen.

[2014BulletC5]

Helmets don't make riding safer, they make crashing safer.

Yep.  You got me there.  Thanks for pointing this out. 

[2014BulletC5]

If an ABS saves the day in an emergency situation would depend on how severe the situation is. ABS cant do much more than a skilled rider can. Where are the statistics of how many fatalities have been caused by the ABS, I want to see the pro and contra?

http://www.4x4community.co.za/forum/showthread.php/24213-ABS-causes-fatal-accident-at-GS-Challenge

Nonetheless I am absolutely no ABS hater, what disgusts me is the mandatory part and the legislation. It's like being put in the wheelchair per decree.

You find a case from almost ten years ago?  And a dirt racer at that? 

Most of us don't ride our RE's on the dirt let alone race them.  You're going to have to try harder if you're going to make me think ABS will somehow make the hobby more dangerous. 

[2014BulletC5]

The Insurance companies also want you to put an electronic snitch on your vehicle to make it safer - by monitoring your driving habits.
Many of us already know insurance companies aren't your friend - be wary of anything they wish to foist upon you !   I have survived "primitive seat of the pants" motorcycling for over 50 years, & don't want stinking ABS. Do not give up total control for another automatic gadget.

Why would the insurance companies want to foist ABS on their customers?  Seems to me they'd want us to have ABS so they'll have to pay out fewer claims.  No?

[malky]

As a sideline to this discussion, most of the Euro4 compliant 125's in UK showrooms come equipped with CBS. Combined Braking System, not ABS. Which any of you who have ridden older Guzzi's in the snow will know is not the most rider friendly addition.

[Chuck D]

Sheesh. Looks like I've picked a scab for a couple of you guys.

Well, um, ...FREEDOM!!!

[gashousegorilla]

     All the BS and politics aside.... HOW does ABS feel on a bike on the road ?!   Anybody have any first hand experience with it ?   I don't, and would like to know 

 I know of a least two pedestrians who stepped out in front of my truck in snow storms that are alive today, or at very least avoided serious injury because of the ABS system on the the four wheeled version.  IF my brakes HAD locked..... Not good.  Sooo..are they THAT good on a Bike ? 

 

[Blairio]

I was having a wee think about some of the innovations and improvements in technologies that have made for safer machines and a safer riding experience:

• Better lights instead of poorer ones (all hail Lucas, Prince Of Darkness!)
• Better tyre construction & materials
• Better brakes
• More compliant suspension
• Better Frame Design to keep both wheels in line most of the time
• More abrasion resistant clothing materials
• Boots that give your ankles half a chance of not sheering off in an accident
• Mainstream helmets which are so much more protective than even the best 20 years ago

You don't hear many people saying - "damn these modern grippy tyre compounds and tread patterns, and the fiendish way they keep you shine side-up going round corners." We can be quite selective of the 'freedoms' we think need defending. Frankly, more effective braking is preferable to less effective braking, and I'm not sure that letting folk  exercise their right to stick with the former is such a great idea.  I get that it smacks of the nanny state, and the generally held idea that technology foisted on us is a bad thing. Good Technological innovation can lead to machines that do certain tasks better than humans. Technology such as air traffic control systems,  or systems for monitoring anaesthesia during operations.  I wonder how many air passengers or patients when asked before their flight or operation "would you like all the modern tech assistance switched off?", would say "Yes please". 

[2014BulletC5]

The Missenden Flyer rides an ABS Continental GT.

https://youtu.be/SkL9cdFaO78

[Chuck D]

     All the BS and politics aside.... HOW does ABS feel on a bike on the road ?!   Anybody have any first hand experience with it ?   I don't, and would like to know 

 I know of a least two pedestrians who stepped out in front of my truck in snow storms that are alive today, or at very least avoided serious injury because of the ABS system on the the four wheeled version.  IF my brakes HAD locked..... Not good.  Sooo..are they THAT good on a Bike ? 

 

I have it on my Triumph. The only time it actually activated is when I purposefully tried it out in a parking lot. I had to  squeeze the levers pretty freakin' hard and fast to do it. I felt a pulsing through the levers and the bike came to a straight and controlled stop. No drama. 99% of the time, I don't even know it's there.

[Chuck D]

I was having a wee think about some of the innovations and improvements in technologies that have made for safer machines and a safer riding experience:

• Better lights instead of poorer ones (all hail Lucas, Prince Of Darkness!)
• Better tyre construction & materials
• Better brakes
• More compliant suspension
• Better Frame Design to keep both wheels in line most of the time
• More abrasion resistant clothing materials
• Boots that give your ankles half a chance of not sheering off in an accident
• Mainstream helmets which are so much more protective than even the best 20 years ago

You don't hear many people saying - "damn these modern grippy tyre compounds and tread patterns, and the fiendish way they keep you shine side-up going round corners." We can be quite selective of the 'freedoms' we think need defending. Frankly, more effective braking is preferable to less effective braking, and I'm not sure that letting folk  exercise their right to stick with the former is such a great idea.  I get that it smacks of the nanny state, and the generally held idea that technology foisted on us is a bad thing. Good Technological innovation can lead to machines that do certain tasks better than humans. Technology such as air traffic control systems,  or systems for monitoring anaesthesia during operations.  I wonder how many air passengers or patients when asked before their flight or operation "would you like all the modern tech assistance switched off?", would say "Yes please".

Not a one, that's who.
It's just that on motorcycle forums, you have guys tripping over each other to establish their anti "guvmint", anti "nanny state", anti "PC", anti "librul" cred.

[Richard230]

     All the BS and politics aside.... HOW does ABS feel on a bike on the road ?!   Anybody have any first hand experience with it ?   I don't, and would like to know 

 I know of a least two pedestrians who stepped out in front of my truck in snow storms that are alive today, or at very least avoided serious injury because of the ABS system on the the four wheeled version.  IF my brakes HAD locked..... Not good.  Sooo..are they THAT good on a Bike ? 

 

I have had ABS on one of my BMW motorcycles since 2007 and I have no idea if it works or not as it has never activated.  So for me it is just an additional expense, additional weight, more complexity and it adds $150 to the cost of replacing brake fluid every other year. 

[2014BulletC5]

You don’t really need a real helmet if you are clever enough and skillful enough to avoid crashes. But more than a few riders do crash, even when they didn’t expect to.

-David L. Hough

[wildbill]

I know ever thing - so I will chime in abs will hit the aust market late this year. I've been waiting and inquiring about this particular bike for several months. not too concerned about the abs side of it but I do want the new swingarm
the dealer told me prices on all models will rise from here from $500 to $1000 so it depends up how much more money they can squeeze out of you.
the only reason there not here now is because they have not sold out all the old models so when that happens the abs version will be classed as the 2018 model. i'd say it will come to the usa the later part of this year too.
that will put the price up on a C5 here in OZ close on the $10K mark ride away.
I've had a chance to try the abs once on my Kawasaki versys x300 and it pulled me down to stop extremely well and drama free.
I had enfield with sticky front or grabber disc's and didn't like it at all. hopefully abs will do its job and improve the bike a bit better
only my thoughts though..........wildbill over and out!

[2014BulletC5]

I know ever thing - so I will chime in abs will hit the aust market late this year. I've been waiting and inquiring about this particular bike for several months. not too concerned about the abs side of it but I do want the new swingarm

What's new about the swing arm?

[Otto_Ing]

What's new about the swing arm?

The new C5 has the Conti GT swing arm with the disc brake. The drum on the previous models is known to lock up in some circumstances. Without question a technical improvement.

[Otto_Ing]

I've had a chance to try the abs once on my Kawasaki versys x300 and it pulled me down to stop extremely well and drama free.
I had enfield with sticky front or grabber disc's and didn't like it at all. hopefully abs will do its job and improve the bike a bit better
only my thoughts though..........wildbill over and out!

The braking power is still depending on the brake, doubt motorcycle ABS works as a brake booster.

[Rattlebattle]

Yes, ABS does nothing for braking power per se, it just reduces the likelihood of the wheel locking up. It can't overcome physics though, so it won't work on sheet ice. I don't mind ABS one way or the other. Like others here if you brake properly anyway ABS doesn't cut in. What I would say is that having had ABS on several bikes the systems are variable. Some are really good; some are awful. The ABS I had on a BMW F800GT was terrible. It applied to early and then braking effort stopped for probably a few milliseconds. Most unnerving as I wanted to brake but couldn't. Not alone in this either according to the forums. The ABS on my Triumph was totally unobtrusive. So, good systems and scary ones (and unreliable ones thinking about my BMW with ABS II). What do you reckon the RE one will be?

[2014BulletC5]

The new C5 has the Conti GT swing arm with the disc brake. The drum on the previous models is known to lock up in some circumstances. Without question a technical improvement.

Isn't it a bolt or stud that can shear off and lock up the rear drum?

Will RE be selling a disk brake conversion? That alone would be a tremendous upgrade.

[Otto_Ing]

Isn't it a bolt or stud that can shear off and lock up the rear drum?

Will RE be selling a disk brake conversion? That alone would be a tremendous upgrade.

I would guestimate that the swingarm conversion would be possible. But I tell ya, there are drum brakes which brake better than the GT's rear disc.    

[2014BulletC5]

But I tell ya, there are drum brakes which brake better than the GT's rear disc.    

Which ones? Direct replacement upgrade?

[Blairio]

What I would say is that having had ABS on several bikes the systems are variable. Some are really good; some are awful.

Fair point. At the end of the day it comes down to how well something is 1. designed, and 2. implemented....

[malky]

Which ones? Direct replacement upgrade?

From another thread.

https://forum.classicmotorworks.com/index.php/topic,24016.msg276484.html#msg276484
The rear brake can be made to work acceptably by centralising the shoes. Basically loosen the chain adjustment and brake tie rod nuts and apply the brake pedal hard a few times. Keep it depressed while retightening everything.

[heloego]

   Apologies if anyone somehow took offense in my last post. It was a knee jerk reaction based on insufficient information about ABS and still being pissed off at the asshole with ABS (and with no insurance!) that did about $2500 damages to the rear of my truck.  Thank dog I wasn't on the bike! I'm still pissed, but I have calmed down.

  My first intended point was to illustrate that any safety feature by itself does not a safe rider/driver make (see example above). As stated, if designed, implemented, and used in a proper manner any safety device can be a life saver in certain conditions and circumstances. It is ultimately up to, and the responsibility of, the rider/driver to decide how far (if at all) to push any one or more of the envelopes.

  My second intended point was that just because an industry or government says it's good for you doesn't make it true.


 

 

[2014BulletC5]

Since the hearty members of this board nor the local dealership know anything about a release timeframe for ABS in the States I sent an email to RENA.

So the official word is 2018. But that's not finalized yet and could change.

So those of you who might want another RE but don't want ABS should have another year to shop. Those who might want a bike with ABS will have to wait another year at least.

[wildbill]

the new model with the abs is a bonus but what I am really chasing is the new swing arm mod thrown in on the deal and therefore no need for concern of the rear drum brake lock up

[2014BulletC5]

the new model with the abs is a bonus but what I am really chasing is the new swing arm mod thrown in on the deal and therefore no need for concern of the rear drum brake lock up

As long as some have pointed out and the RE system is done right. We can assume that the use of Brembo brakes means there will be at least a decent attempt to do it right.

What bikes have disks all around now? CGT and ?? I believe the Thunderbird?

[wildbill]

the GT plus the Himalayan have the rear disc set up and both these models are available for purchase in aust. we never every got the thunderbird.
not sure if the new c5 abs is running brembo or not. they were on the Gt front end and I didn't have it that long to check if it was on the rear end...lol

[malky]

Remember, with the disc setup you lose the luxury of the QD rear wheel. 

[Rattlebattle]

As long as some have pointed out and the RE system is done right. We can assume that the use of Brembo brakes means there will be at least a decent attempt to do it right.

Well, the EFI is Keihin, so that is cutting edge and always works really well doesn't it? (So well in fact that some of us have replaced it with a carb). The two worst versions of ABS on the several systems I've had on my bikes were also Brembo, on BMWs - the infamous ABS II system and the later version on my F800GT. Problems usually arise when the bike manufacturer thinks it knows better than the specialist provider how to implement a system. Certainly Brembo are world leaders in ABS, including cornering ABS where they make most of the IMUs that assessthe lean angle etc. Anyway, are we sure it's Brembo on the RE and not just a lookalike like the awful "Bosch" spark plugs? FWIW the feedback on the 2017 RE Euro IV models in the UK is favourable. The rear brake is better than the drum (what wouldn't be) and the ABS is not intrusive, so if you don't ride stupidly you'll not notice it's there. It seems to be OK (and the engine seems to fuel no differently to the older ones, a bit surprising really as the 2017 bikes have to meet Euro IV). Also, the ABS , being dual channel, works on both wheels (some systems only work on the front wheel). Looks like it's true that RE is concentrating on the home market if the USA isn't going to get them until 2018. I haven't seen one here in the UK yet: I think the retro market is getting near saturation point and there are so many other tempting small/mid-capacity naked bikes. The supplying dealer of my 2015 RE has packed them in and now sells Husqvarnas, very successfully by all account. I don't know what he did with the row of unsold new RE bikes; I guess they were redistributed through the trade.

[Rattlebattle]

Remember, with the disc setup you lose the luxury of the QD rear wheel.

I feel that is definitely a worthwhile trade-off. Disc brakes are nmuch easier to maintain, even with ABS. Anyway, the RE method of QD isn't particularly good IMHO.

[malky]

I feel that is definitely a worthwhile trade-off. Disc brakes are nmuch easier to maintain, even with ABS. Anyway, the RE method of QD isn't particularly good IMHO.

I'll stick with the old design. Fixing a puncture in the dark without having to f#ck around with oily chains and shoving pads back for clearance is not for me. Where I live, the only time the brakes get used in anger is to avoid wildlife. I gave up town riding, park up and use the bus.

[ace.cafe]

My personal opinion is to let the buyer buy the bike accessories he wants.
I have never needed ABS on a bike, don't want ABS, and don't want to be mandated to pay for ABS.

If others want it, they should be free to buy it.

[Rattlebattle]

Correction: The ABS bits on BMW are of course Bosch, not Brembo. It is of course Bosch that makes the IMU fitted to many modern ABS systems. I've never had any issues with Brembo calipers, only the Bosch side of things in ABS.

[Rattlebattle]

I'll stick with the old design. Fixing a puncture in the dark without having to f#ck around with oily chains and shoving pads back for clearance is not for me. Where I live, the only time the brakes get used in anger is to avoid wildlife. I gave up town riding, park up and use the bus.

Each to his own. Frankly neither system is that user friendly as anyone who has had a single sided swinging arm disc system will know. No need to disturb anything on that system.

[Ice]

 Riders and drivers who have not needed to use ABS obviously are not  in the habit of exceeding their limits. Ease of  flat repair is quite useful when AAA can not possibly be omnipresent.

[Rattlebattle]

My personal opinion is to let the buyer buy the bike accessories he wants.
I have never needed ABS on a bike, don't want ABS, and don't want to be mandated to pay for ABS.

If others want it, they should be free to buy it.

That is my view too. Sadly the way things are going we won't be able to choose anything if it is deemed to be a safety or emissions aid. Today in another knee jerk reaction to the requirement to meet clean air standards in the UK the government is to announce that, following France's lead, no new petrol or diesel cars will be sold here from 2040 and that electric vehicles are the way forward. IIRC France has already banned vehicles older than mid noughtied (including bikes) from being driven in some large cities and if the Mayor of London gets his way diesel cars will be banned from there too. Enjoy it while you can.

[tooseevee]

If ABS makes rding safer and lowers insurance costs isn't that good?

           Nothing! the government mandates me to buy is good.

           I just realized I should amend my above:

            Nothing the FEDeral government mandates me to buy is good.

             I do believe the States have the responsibility to mandate vehicle insurance, for example.

             

[Otto_Ing]

           Nothing! the government mandates me to buy is good.

+1, think from the mfrg. perspective. Why would you do something that's good if it's going to sell either way.

[Richard230]

That is my view too. Sadly the way things are going we won't be able to choose anything if it is deemed to be a safety or emissions aid. Today in another knee jerk reaction to the requirement to meet clean air standards in the UK the government is to announce that, following France's lead, no new petrol or diesel cars will be sold here from 2040 and that electric vehicles are the way forward. IIRC France has already banned vehicles older than mid noughtied (including bikes) from being driven in some large cities and if the Mayor of London gets his way diesel cars will be banned from there too. Enjoy it while you can.

I just heard that report on my local radio news a few minutes ago. The times they are a-changing, when the British follow in the footsteps of the French.     I guess that means that we in the U.S. will have more and cheaper oil to burn in the future.     Time for Royal Enfield to reintroduce their diesel-powered smoker.  It ought to be able to keep up with Google's self-driving pod cars.   

[Rattlebattle]

I believe it has to do with some Eurocrap directive about clean air. The British Govt lost a court case about it, so now they've come up with this I'll-conceived plan. Sadly hard Brexit (basically stuff the EU) is unlikely to happen because of the stupidity and political ineptitude of our PM. At least the USA never really embraced diesel cars; the VW scandal didn't help the oil burners' cause much. What price a 3 years old Beemer now? Glad I've got a petrol engine in my car. Not sure why electric power either; I would have thought hydrogen would be a better option.

[Otto_Ing]

Hydrogen is totally unpractical, extreme pressure and low temperature is required to store it in meaningful quantities. Besides of that electric cars can be hydrogen powered as well in theory. Hydrogen is just an energy carrier same as battery, the energy would still come from some power plant. Every energy conversion means loss, I don't get it why we always try to replace something efficient with something less efficient..

When I hear the slogan "fossil free fuel" I always think of Titan the moon of Saturnus. It's known for being a methane planet. Where are the dinosaurs?

[Rattlebattle]

I seem to remember seeing hydrogen powered buses in Barcelona (?) - one of the large continental cities anyway. Steam out of the exhaust and pretty quiet. I would have thought that with sufficient investment it could be practical. There's always nuclear....

[Richard230]

Well over a year ago someone started building an H2 station to refuel H2 cars, replacing an old gas station located in Sky Londa, across from Alice's Restaurant, in the Santa Cruz Mountains, south of San Francisco.  The station is supposed to dispense H2 to H2 cars that no one has bought yet - and likely no one wants unless someone else subsidizes them.  40% of the H2 is supposed to be made at the station and the other 60% will be trucked in by tanker truck.  A great place for an H2 station.  20 miles from any major population centers and the local backwoods residents, with their diesel-powered 4-wheel drive pickups, just laugh at the project.  It was supposed to be opened up in March, but all work stopped last November and nothing has been done since.  Another taxpayer boondoggle, no doubt.    Photos attached.

[2014BulletC5]

           Nothing! the government mandates me to buy is good.

           I just realized I should amend my above:

            Nothing the FEDeral government mandates me to buy is good.

             I do believe the States have the responsibility to mandate vehicle insurance, for example.

           

The government isn't mandating you buy anything. Nobody is forcing you to buy a bike with ABS and you're free to buy another brand or an older bike.

You're not even mandated to buy vehicle insurance. You can ride a bicycle or take the bus. Or walk.

I guess that means you still have to buy healthcare unless the Republicrats can work out a repeal.

Manufacturers are the ones taking the hit. But RE should have seen this one coming and, fingers crossed, they have a system developed that'll roll out with little or no fanfare. Hopefully.

[hpwaco]

Malky, would you please explain your comment "with the disk setup you loose the luxury of QD ".  Thanks hp

[malky]

Malky, would you please explain your comment "with the disk setup you loose the luxury of QD ".  Thanks hp

The drum brake set up allows you (in my experience anyway ) easier removal of the rear wheel for maintenance, puncture repairs etc, because the brake is undisturbed and bolted to the swinging arm, whereas the disc rear hub means it takes a bit longer as the  brake caliper has to be removed, or the pads shoved back for ease of reassembly. I've no doubt the disc is superior in efficiency, but as I can lock up the rear on mine without too much effort, I can live with the drum. The first picture is of the old bullet, the UCE is the same but on the opposite side. For roadside puncture repairs it saves a lot of grief, if you get the bike up on the center stand with the wheel hanging over a " pit" , getting the wheel out is easy.

[JohnDL]

I removed the rear wheel of my disc breaked GT with no problem.

The chain and sprocket still stay in place -  I hooked up the brake calliper using a bungee cord to the lifting handle, and the wheel rolls out easily once the mudguard extension and number (licence) plate is removed.

Personally I wouldn't bother even trying to repair a puncture at the roadside - I doubt the tubeless tyres would be an easy thing to try and remove from the rim.

John

[malky]

I removed the rear wheel of my disc breaked GT with no problem.

The chain and sprocket still stay in place -  I hooked up the brake calliper using a bungee cord to the lifting handle, and the wheel rolls out easily once the mudguard extension and number (licence) plate is removed.

Personally I wouldn't bother even trying to repair a puncture at the roadside - I doubt the tubeless tyres would be an easy thing to try and remove from the rim.

John

Point taken. Unfortunately the response time I've experienced from recovery firms has been a six hour wait minimum, so fixing a puncture is much quicker. These work a treat getting the bead broken from the rim. Tubed or tubeless.

[Rattlebattle]

I guess it depends where you live, to some extent. I seem to have been reasonably lucky. I doubt I'd try to remove a tubeless tyre from an alloy rim at the roadside either. There's a lot to be said for tubeless tyres without tubes - just plug and go unless the tyre is badly damaged. Never had much luck with Slime etc. I find removing calipers is an easy task, as is moving the pads back. Give me a rear disc any time. Much easier to maintain and more likely to work. The rear brake on my C5 is awful and I don't entirely trust it not to cause the rear wheel to lock up.

[jefrs]

I guess it depends where you live, to some extent. I seem to have been reasonably lucky. I doubt I'd try to remove a tubeless tyre from an alloy rim at the roadside either. There's a lot to be said for tubeless tyres without tubes - just plug and go unless the tyre is badly damaged. Never had much luck with Slime etc. I find removing calipers is an easy task, as is moving the pads back. Give me a rear disc any time. Much easier to maintain and more likely to work. The rear brake on my C5 is awful and I don't entirely trust it not to cause the rear wheel to lock up.

Maybe OT but the rear drum on an RE is very, very easy to fix so it is a good reliable and effective brake.
The shoes must centralise.
RE paint the cam bush to the backplate. It was not designed like that. It has locknuts and slotted holes so it can slide and centralise the shoes.
Take it off, clean it up and put it back on so it /just/ slides under your weight on the brake pedal. It doesn't want to be loose or it will adjust itself when you hit bumps in the road, but it must move.
Then the shoes centralise, you're now using both shoes and the brake point is in the same place every time. Really useful for slow manoeuvring and feathering into bends.

[Karl Fenn]

Well first point the EU are responsible for bringing in the laws on compulsory abs, yes it does look like like they give to you free, that's what they want you to think, but bear in mind after a few years they recoup their money 20 fold and have you chained to main dealer service only, or in other words chained to the EU devil who wants to slim down your wallet.