[sheldogg]

Hi everyone!

Thanks to all of you for your time and patience while I hunted down the electrical short in my '06 Electra. In the end the problem was the first thing I thought it would be - main fuse blown. Just took me 6 days to hunt that fuse down. Special thanks to Arizoni for posting the key that turned the tumbler there.

I bought this bike despite electric start malfunction (talked the guy down some because of that to be fair). But now I'm sick of kicking every time, and my partner can't manage it at all.

What I did:
__Hot-wired the starter. It functions, the bike started as it would if I'd had a working button.
__Hot-wired to the solenoid/relay. Got a start there as well.
__Traced the wire (blue w/white stripe) from the solenoid to the rat's nest under the seat all the way up to the gas tank. No breaks in the wire, no evident bad connections in the relays. Cleaned connections to no avail.
__Did a visual check of the wire *harness* (under wraps) under the gas tank to the headstock without removing tank headstock or handlebars. No visible breaks. None leading from the switch itself either. Found another relay just before the headstock, but wrong-colored wire leading from it so pfffft.
__There's a spike in amperage and an audible click when the starter button is depressed. I tried to find the source of the click, but I believe that's just the relay that sits atop the solenoid telling me it's got good ground.

That's as far as I dared take it for now. I don't want to go through the pain of removing the gas tank and unwrapping those wires just to find what I suspect anyhow - no breaks in the blue/white I'm tracing, and no suspect relays between it and the headstock.

And I'm not removing my headstock unless I get a great idea. I'd rather pay shop hours than go down that rabbit hole.

So that's why I'm posting another lengthy plea for advice. Who's got the key for this tumbler? Have I overlooked something? Is there a probable reason to take the next step and remove the gas tank and unwrap the wiring there?

As a temporary solution, has anybody run a bypass from their starter switch direct to the solenoid? I'd be down for that if I thought I could make it work. Just disconnect the handlebar switch, run it to the battery, and from there to the solenoid, right? Maybe rig a relay or even a 10a fuse between the battery and the solenoid?

Thanks for reading and happy trails!

[Arizoni]

...

What I did:
__Hot-wired the starter. It functions, the bike started as it would if I'd had a working button.

If you ran a wire from the + battery terminal directly to the starter that proves the motor works.
__Hot-wired to the solenoid/relay. Got a start there as well.

Does this mean you jumped directly from the solenoid input terminal that's on the solenoid directly to the output terminal on the solenoid?  If so, you just bypassed the solenoid and proved the wires are connected.

If on the other hand it means you ran a + wire from the battery to the blue/white wire at the solenoid and you heard a click while the starter motor started running, ignore the latter half of my post.

If you did not run a + power wire from the battery to the terminal where the blue/white wire is connected, now is the time to do so.
With the solenoids black wire connected and your jumper from the battery touching the blue/white wires solenoid terminal you should hear a click and the starter motor should begin to run.

__Traced the wire (blue w/white stripe) from the solenoid to the rat's nest under the seat all the way up to the gas tank. No breaks in the wire, no evident bad connections in the relays. Cleaned connections to no avail.
As you know, this blue/white wire delivers the power from the button to the solenoid.  This is a likely candidate but read on.

__Did a visual check of the wire *harness* (under wraps) under the gas tank to the headstock without removing tank headstock or handlebars. No visible breaks. None leading from the switch itself either. Found another relay just before the headstock, but wrong-colored wire leading from it so pfffft.
__There's a spike in amperage and an audible click when the starter button is depressed. I tried to find the source of the click, but I believe that's just the relay that sits atop the solenoid telling me it's got good ground.

Not only does it show the ground path from the activation circuit in the solenoid is good but that audible CLICK says power is getting from the starter button thru the blue/white wire to the solenoid and activating it.

The fact that this activation doesn't cause the starter motor to run says the solenoid is defective.

This is quite common with RE's of all types  In fact, it is rumored that Kevin bought his Porsche with the revenue from selling these things.

You can either buy a replacement from REFW or remove the starter solenoid and go to your local NAPA or other auto supply store.
They have a lot of solenoids that will do the job and by having your defective solenoid in hand they might even be able to match one up that will bolt right in place.

[tooseevee]

Hi everyone!
__There's a spike in amperage and an audible click when the starter button is depressed. I tried to find the source of the click, but I believe that's just the relay that sits atop the solenoid telling me it's got good ground.

So that's why I'm posting another lengthy plea for advice. Who's got the key for this tumbler? Have I overlooked something? Is there a probable reason to take the next step and remove the gas tank and unwrap the wiring there?

Maybe rig a relay or even a 10a fuse between the battery and the solenoid?

Thanks for reading and happy trails!

            You should put a new starter relay in (it's not a solenoid, it's a relay) and eliminate THAT as a problem. Here's the one I put in my '08 a couple years ago. They were way less then and I ordered two; one is on my shelf for when this one shits the bed:

    http://www.ebay.com/itm/New-Universal-Motorcycle-Solenoid-Starter-Relay-Switch-With-Multiple-Connectors-/332069977885?epid=510910001&hash=item4d50e9bf1d:g:XOEAAOSw5cNYW-2Q&vxp=mtr

          You say you have a relay that sits atop the "solenoid"? Is that a Bosch relay (that someone added) between the starter button and the existing starter relay? If so, by all means leave that between your starter button and the new relay you're going to order and install.

           Then make sure your battery is tip-top, always at peak Voltage and always on a tender unless you're riding it.

            I've had every wire apart in the loom under the gas tank (and under the seat and in the headlight). There are 30 wires in that loom under the tank and you can't see any problems (which there are) unless you take the tank off and unwrap the loom. All you can do is check continuity from end to end. There are horrible things inside that loom I guess things got incrementally better after '08 or '09.

[Arizoni]

2CV"
As "solenoid" is another word for "relay" I'll ask the question, did your AVL come with a separate relay between the starter button and the starter solenoid or, is it something you added?

The wiring diagram I have for the AVL doesn't show one.

I'll admit, if sheldogg's motorcycle has one, it's possible it was what he was hearing and it is defective.

As I think I mentioned, it would be a good idea for him to run a jumper from the hot + battery terminal to the solenoid terminal that should have the blue/white wire connected to it.
If the solenoid clicks and the engine starts cranking, this unknown (to me) relay may be the problem.

[sheldogg]

What is this system? That's what I've been calling a 'relay', and when I said I bridged the solenoid what I did was jump start the bike going hot from the battery to the white end. The green, where I thought I may have isolated the problem, looks like a passive connector. I guess the word 'relay' is a poor choice.

But I've messed up. Can't even kick start right the bike right now.

What I did:
__Disassemble the right housing (kill switch, throttle cable, headlamp toggle, electric starter switch) to see if I went hot from the battery to the switch that'd produce a start. It produced the same result (amperage spike, click).
__Disconnect the wires from that passive connector, thinking there I'd find a short. Went straight to the clear end with both wires. Got the same result.

I don't think my removing that green diode is keeping me from starting the bike. I didn't move the top portion of the housing at all, which contains the kill switch, and I don't believe I've blown the switch because I still get that amperage spike when I try to hit electric start button. I carefully reassembled the housing, and don't see why moving the throttle cable about would keep me from kick starting the bike anyhow.

I did check the spark plug today, and thought I reattached the wire properly. What's my problem? Loose throttle cable? Spark? Did messing about with the wiring to the start button perhaps do something? Do I need to replace this green diode?  I'm hopless

[sheldogg]

The disconnected diode

[Adrian II]

sheldogg,

that is not a diode. That is one half of a two-wire connector. Like this one.



http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/2-8mm-110-series-Motorcycle-Mini-Latch-Wiring-Connector-Set-2-way-GREEN-/291691203220?hash=item43ea268a94

I'm hopless

Just don't chop anything else off.

A.

[sheldogg]

Thank you a 2 wire connector. But that's not why I can't start my bike, right? Given that I bridged over it?

[tooseevee]

2CV"
As "solenoid" is another word for "relay" I'll ask the question, did your AVL come with a separate relay between the starter button and the starter solenoid or, is it something you added?

The wiring diagram I have for the AVL doesn't show one.

               What's on an Enfield to me is just a relay, not a solenoid. A solenoid to me is what is on a starter that has a Bendix gear. When you hit the starter button a solenoid actually slams the Bendix gear into mesh with the flywheel and the starter then cranks the engine over.  The thing in the Enfield is just a big magnetic switch.

                 

[tooseevee]

2CV"
As "solenoid" is another word for "relay" I'll ask the question, did your AVL come with a separate relay between the starter button and the starter solenoid or, is it something you added?

The wiring diagram I have for the AVL doesn't show one.

             Yes, I added a Bosch 5-pin relay between the starter button and the existing large relay in the left sidecase. There's a whole thread on it with pictures that you may have missed.

[Adrian II]

It sounds like the big starter relay isn't working if you can get the starter motor to spin the engine by shorting the two large termainals out. If you can hear the relay actually make a click when you press the starter button, power is getting to it, but it's not then passing the juice from the battery down the thick wire to the starter motor.

Buy and fit a new solenoid relay like this one and repair your wiring as necessary:



http://www.ebay.com/itm/Starter-Solenoid-Relay-Honda-CB500-CX500-Custom-DeLuxe-CBX-GL1000-Goldwing-/262919729958?hash=item3d373cb326:g:r6cAAOSwTM5Y4CxY&vxp=mtr

Fitting a secondary relay as tooseevee has done is a neat little extra which you could fit at anytime, but replacing the main starter relay is where I would go next.

A.

[heloego]

And it doesn't hurt to keep a spare on hand.

BTW, thanks for the link, Adrian! Been looking for that exact relay for some time now. Ordered a couple for stock! 

[Adrian II]

I hope the quality is OK! 

A.

[elysianforest]

My $0.02 is that I agree you've got a bad relay. It's definitely getting the control signal from the start button if you hear it clicking. You can always verify the continuity (or lack therof) by clipping your ohmmeter to the big terminals and pressing start. If the resistance goes to zero your relay works - if not, it doesn't. Wouldn't be terrible idea to disconnect the battery from it before testing as that'll be enough amps to fry your multimeter if you're misconfigured.

Do the continuity test on your kill switch leads as well. It's possible something came loose when you were mucking about in the switch.

btw - a solenoid does mechanical work like pushing a gear or a door, a relay makes an electrical connection

[Mick Bailey]

In my opinion adding an additional relay to the starter relay is adding needless complexity and more connections/contacts that can fail. The existing starter relay is already designed to operate off a low current supply and an additional relay serves no extra purpose, other than to make troubleshooting in the event of a problem more difficult.