Author Topic: Another Primary Chain Failure on a near new Conti GT  (Read 31539 times)

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gizzo

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Reply #15 on: December 22, 2016, 08:06:05 pm
Sure, and I've done that once, for a look. But what's to stop it overtightening again the next time its ridden? You can't just pop the  cover off every time you ride.
simon from south Australia
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Otto_Ing

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Reply #16 on: December 22, 2016, 08:20:21 pm
Somehow if I had to place a bet now I would suspect more likely the loose clutch cage nut being responsible for the derailing of the chain and failure. But JMHO


Kevin Mahoney

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Reply #17 on: December 22, 2016, 10:05:42 pm
Of course you can keep popping it off. You're an Enfield owner remember  ;)
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Kevin Mahoney
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Aus.GT

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Reply #18 on: December 23, 2016, 04:33:40 am
I've read your post earlier Aus.GT and I will do the same. Really do not want to experience this. We have to find a quality aftermarket chain I believe as well.

I agree oTTo maybe IWIS/JWIS might be a good brand, There in you neck of the woods, I Believe.
1988 Gilera Saturno 500
2014 Continental GT
1985 Ducati Mille S2


gizzo

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Reply #19 on: December 23, 2016, 06:23:03 am
Of course you can keep popping it off. You're an Enfield owner remember  ;)
Oh yeah. There's that... :D
simon from south Australia
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DRZ400SM
C90
GSX250E


ace.cafe

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Reply #20 on: December 23, 2016, 02:21:57 pm
I would reassemble the bike with all of these things in mind, taking care that the clutch parts are tightened properly, and thread locker or safety wire used.
Get a new quality chain and a new adjuster. If you want, you should be able to adapt a manually adjusted primary chain adjuster to the package. Adjust it periodically,  like we do with the vintage models.

It is counterproductive to let it play on your fears. Just fix the bike correctly and ride.
 :)
Home of the Fireball 535 !


gashousegorilla

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Reply #21 on: December 23, 2016, 04:48:14 pm
   Someone should give Hayden industries a call for an after market replacement.  The Harley boys with their big twins have been having issues with their auto tensioner's for year's.   Like our tensioners, the stock Harley tensioners can only tighten the chain.... it can't compensate for a chain that is stretched, or has tight spots in it and loose spots in it. Just like one would find on ones drive chain. The stock tensioner  takes up the LOOSE spots in the chain, and over tightens the whole chain.... it can only tighten with it's ratchet.  The after market tensioners have a spring type tensioner, that can go up and down with the drive chain, and compensate for the un-even stretch in the chain.

  Also as I recall.... there is a spacer behind the front/sprag sprocket .  It is stepped, and must be installed in a certain orientation... I think IN ?  Don't have the book in front of me now. BUT... I'm thinking , if it was installed at the factory backasswords ?    It might have caused a mis-alignment in the chain, between the front and rear sprockets.
« Last Edit: December 23, 2016, 07:04:23 pm by gashousegorilla »
An thaibhsí atá rattling ag an doras agus tá sé an diabhal sa chathaoir.


Aus.GT

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Reply #22 on: December 23, 2016, 06:42:25 pm
   Someone should give Hayden industries a call for an after market replacement.  The Harley boys with their big twins have been having issues with their auto tensioner's for year's.   Like our tensioners, the stock Harley tensioners can only tighten the chain.... it can't compensate for a chain that is stretched, or has tight spots in it and loose spots in it. Just like one would find on ones drive chain. The stock tensioner  takes up the LOOSE spots in the chain, and over tightens the whole chain.... it can only tighten with it's ratchet.  The after market tensioners have a spring type tensioner, that can go up and down with the drive chain, and compensate for the un-even stretch in the chain.

That's a fair comment GHG, without having a look one might be able to modify the existing tensioner as you mention with a spring. I noticed the brand on the chain from the above pics is a Rolon Chain, Don't know what the quality is like?
1988 Gilera Saturno 500
2014 Continental GT
1985 Ducati Mille S2


gashousegorilla

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Reply #23 on: December 23, 2016, 07:15:51 pm
That's a fair comment GHG, without having a look one might be able to modify the existing tensioner as you mention with a spring. I noticed the brand on the chain from the above pics is a Rolon Chain, Don't know what the quality is like?

   Yeah... a tight cheap arse chain might make things worse ?   I really do not ever remember hearing about a 500 chain snapping like that... at least on the board here.  DEFINITELY loose sprag gear retaining bolts though !...  I have had that a couple of times myself.  But caught it in time. The factory came up with a service bulletin for that issue... it was to increase the torque spec, and to use red loctite.  :-\   A left hand thread might be a better fix I think.   I don't recall , or have ever looked for a brand name on the 500's  ?   But, who knows....Maybe the GT motors have a different brand of primary chain in there ?   
An thaibhsí atá rattling ag an doras agus tá sé an diabhal sa chathaoir.


gashousegorilla

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Reply #24 on: December 23, 2016, 08:13:38 pm
 Yeah... page 05-50 of the service manual cautions NOT to install the stepped sprag distance washer back words.   And I could see how it would be easy to do the wrong way around.  I think it would be worth it, to have them loosen and remove that sprag retaining bolt... if it's not loose already ;D .  Remove the sprag gear ,and take a peak at the spacer behind the sprag gear......


  Your sprockets certainly don't look like they are aligned in your pictures.
« Last Edit: December 24, 2016, 01:26:15 am by gashousegorilla »
An thaibhsí atá rattling ag an doras agus tá sé an diabhal sa chathaoir.


AUSCONTI

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Reply #25 on: December 26, 2016, 12:10:52 am
Thank you GHG!
Once the dealer is open after Christmas, I will visit have a look-see, take  a straight edge and first check the alignment, then tension of sprag gear nut (True it may be already loose) and have them remove and inspect the washer.
We so much appreciate the concern and suggestions.
Merry Christmas to all
Pete
Pete from Queensland, Australia
2015 GT Continental
2016 Guzzi V7
1977 MV Agusta 125 Sport


gashousegorilla

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Reply #26 on: December 26, 2016, 03:01:11 am
   Good luck Pete, and let us know the outcome. 

 Yeah..... just take a look at the picture you posted, on the bottom.  Look at the gold colored shift shaft sticking out between the front sprag gear, and the rear clutch gear.   Now look at where the front spag gears double row of teeth are in relation to that shift shaft.... now look at the double row of teeth on the clutch in relation to that shift shaft ?   Don't look right to me  ;)     The front sprag gear bolt, looks to me like it is seated... if maybe not tight.  The nut which retains the clutch on the main shaft is still in place there. I believe you mentioned that they found that one loose ?   Anyway... even if it was tightened up the way things appear there, the gears (sprockets) would still be mis-aligned.  As a matter of fact, it appears that if that nut on the main shaft where loose and the whole clutch moved OUT on the shaft ?  Tightening it up would make the alignment WORSE , as the teeth of the clutch gear would be pushed too far in-board , and farther out of alignment with the sprag gear.   This is why I am thinking it might be the the spacer behind the spag gear.  It's locating the sprag gear too far OUT on the crank shaft, and out of alignment with the clutch gear.

   Once they take out the retaining bolt on the sprag gear.... And if they see the crank shaft recessed down in side the gear ?  Then it is spaced wrong.   I remember the tip of the shaft being flush with the gear, once the bolt is removed.
« Last Edit: December 26, 2016, 03:06:52 am by gashousegorilla »
An thaibhsí atá rattling ag an doras agus tá sé an diabhal sa chathaoir.


Otto_Ing

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Reply #27 on: December 31, 2016, 10:49:08 pm
https://youtu.be/xu80VMefE5M

....I've seen this on the GT only sofar.


AUSCONTI

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Reply #28 on: January 01, 2017, 03:47:51 am
Thanks Otto.
Will attempt to find information on what happened to our Indian friend GT.
On my son's Conti, the dealer is back on January 3rd, plan on visiting again. Emotion aside, there has to be a recall. My nephew (A fellow rider) just raised a very good point. In Australia the new RE's are sold as learner bikes. We have many inexperienced riders whom if the same thing happened, may panic, try to brake, resulting in possible chaos.
Happy New Year all!
« Last Edit: January 02, 2017, 06:17:18 am by AUSCONTI »
Pete from Queensland, Australia
2015 GT Continental
2016 Guzzi V7
1977 MV Agusta 125 Sport


AUSCONTI

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Reply #29 on: January 13, 2017, 10:31:16 am
Update on the Conti:
A Healthy New Year all! There have been some developments. Due to Christmas and New year, the real action began this week. The laws in Australia do not provide mandatory safety re-calls. The onus is on the manufacturers. Heard that directly from the Government agency we spoke to. Quite extraordinary.

Whilst the Australian & New Zealand RE importers Urban Moto Imports (UMI) communication has been woeful, behind the scenes they have been very pro-active. Feel they, like us, want to know how this happened. When visiting the dealer (Noosa, QLD) last week we asked to follow GHG theories on "a back to front washer" (behind Sprag sprocket), having sent them all the relevant information including the specific page on the RE Service manual noting such. Much to our frustration they said no, they cited it was a forensic issue and further inspection would be done by the Importers in Melbourne or indeed RE India. It was a fair comment.

UMI have organised a brand new 2017 spec engine ex - India. Already at dealer (must have air freighted) and will be fitted next week. Full credit to them (UMI and Dealer) Warranty on the new engine has not been determined. Dealer have promised we will receive a full report on what caused the failure. Again not sure if that will be done in Melbourne or India. Once we have that, I will post here.

It has been 4 weeks since the bike and I went for a slide, plenty of time for both emotions and ego to subside. We have plenty of bikes in the family, no rush on getting the Conti back, more concerned about discovering the problem, alerting others, doing the correct thing. Once the Conti is home, we will inspect the primary chain and sprocket alignment, look at replacing with a HD Chain. Learn more about it's function, and check every 5000 or so. It will be nice to hear the thump, thump again, I do miss that:) more to follow, and again thank you. Pete
« Last Edit: January 13, 2017, 08:39:26 pm by AUSCONTI »
Pete from Queensland, Australia
2015 GT Continental
2016 Guzzi V7
1977 MV Agusta 125 Sport