Author Topic: DanB's Ace AVL head  (Read 38870 times)

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ace.cafe

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on: August 06, 2016, 11:23:19 pm
DanB's Ace AVL head.

Got a chamber pic a couple days ago, but was too busy to put it up on a thread.

AVL 500 Ace Head, chamber view with valves out, and coating done.

He has been waiting a while, so I am sure he will be happy to see this.

« Last Edit: August 06, 2016, 11:28:16 pm by ace.cafe »
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Otto_Ing

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Reply #1 on: August 07, 2016, 04:05:22 pm
That looks nice!  8)

So how do they apply the coating only where required and not anywhere else?  :)


ace.cafe

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Reply #2 on: August 07, 2016, 04:22:50 pm
That looks nice!  8)

So how do they apply the coating only where required and not anywhere else?  :)

Thanks!
It started out with the stock D-shaped chamber like both AVL and UCE have. Then, it was mostly filled up by welding a large amount of aluminum into it. It looks like a big ugly wad of chewing gum is in it. Then, he uses a die grinder to sculpture the new chamber shape by hand. Deck is ground flat on a surface grinder.The new valve seats then go on, porting and seat cutting, and the bigger valves. Combustion chamber with valves get measured for cc volume, and some final finish grinding with the die grinder to achieve our desired chamber volume. Then coating.


They mask the areas that won't be coated, and spray the coating on like a paint. Then, it gets baked for curing.

This is done by Calico Coatings, which is a top notch coating company used by many racing teams. This was our first job by Calico. We previously used Tech Line coatings at Mondello's, or Swain Tech. Since the new shop is in Charlotte NC, not far from the Calico facility, we are using them now. There are many resources around there, because it is the home of NASCAR. The shop we use works with NASCAR teams, and there are some trophies and awards in their showcase.
« Last Edit: August 07, 2016, 04:37:54 pm by ace.cafe »
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Otto_Ing

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Reply #3 on: August 07, 2016, 04:43:12 pm

They mask the areas that won't be coated, and spray the coating on like a paint. Then, it gets baked for curing.


That sound like something that can be done at home in the shed.  ;D


ace.cafe

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Reply #4 on: August 07, 2016, 04:52:53 pm
That sound like something that can be done at home in the shed.  ;D
With Tech Line coatings, they offer kits and materials for user application.  Calico and Swain Tech do not.
If you have a spray gun and oven, and the desire, you could do it at home. For a single job, it's probably not worth it.  If you do head work commercially,  it could be worth it. Mondello's did Tech Line coatings in house, which were the coatings  they did for us back then.
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tooseevee

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Reply #5 on: August 07, 2016, 06:17:07 pm
DanB's Ace AVL head.

Got a chamber pic a couple days ago, but was too busy to put it up on a thread.

AVL 500 Ace Head, chamber view with valves out, and coating done.

He has been waiting a while, so I am sure he will be happy to see this.


              Ah! 'Tis a true thing of beauty, i'tis. i'tis  :)  ;D
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DanB

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Reply #6 on: August 09, 2016, 04:39:46 am
Oh yes!!!!!  Thing of beauty. Just needs a matching bike now. 8)

Did it ship Ace?

Forgot to ask, what size valves ended up going in?
« Last Edit: August 09, 2016, 04:52:29 am by DanB »
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ace.cafe

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Reply #7 on: August 09, 2016, 02:12:30 pm
Oh yes!!!!!  Thing of beauty. Just needs a matching bike now. 8)

Did it ship Ace?

Forgot to ask, what size valves ended up going in?
I think it shipped. He said he was going to ship at the end of last week. I just called, but no answer. Will try again later.
Intake valve is 1.8". Same valve sizes as the previous AVL heads we did.
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DanB

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Reply #8 on: August 10, 2016, 06:26:16 pm
Thanks for checking Ace.

Can't wait to see what this changes on the bike!  and... My household will be happy to get me out of the house and back into 'open road therapy'. (Maybe I've been difficult to live with lately  :o )
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Adrian II

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Reply #9 on: August 10, 2016, 07:06:48 pm
Nice to see another one its way and showing that the AVL is actually worth the effort, with some careful modification. I assume there's a TM32 Mikuni going on there, but what cams are you using, Dan?

Yesterday I took a pile of bits into Bullet Whisperer for him to put a 500 AVL engine together, though there's no fancy head work apart from a modest bit of porting. I shall be relying on a decent carb, some "S" cams and B.W.'s valve seat skills for the performance on this. Speaking of valve seats, it's nice to see the inlet tract blended in properly, anyone who has seen the bottom of the valve seat poking out into the inlet port of a stock AVL head (or tops of the valve seats sticking out into the combustion chamber by as much as 1mm) will know poorly finished they were at the factory.

A.
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DanB

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Reply #10 on: August 11, 2016, 02:59:45 am
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I assume there's a TM32 Mikuni going on there, but what cams are you using, Dan?

Yep. TM32 with ace inlet (and now ported to match), bw s cams and a nice free flow cocktail shaker. Also have the performance tci but not yet installed. Changing one thing at a time.
Suppose I were an idiot, and suppose I were a member of Congress; but I repeat myself. ... Mark Twain
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ace.cafe

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Reply #11 on: August 11, 2016, 03:13:16 pm
I just found out it shipped yesterday by ground. A few days late, but it is on its way.
Sorry about the delay. 
 :)
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Adrian II

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Reply #12 on: August 12, 2016, 12:41:46 am
Just remember to assemble the top end dry for checking inlet valve to piston crown clearance if you're timing it on the dots, it MIGHT need a small cut out on the crown.

A.
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ace.cafe

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Reply #13 on: August 12, 2016, 02:21:15 pm
Just remember to assemble the top end dry for checking inlet valve to piston crown clearance if you're timing it on the dots, it MIGHT need a small cut out on the crown.

A.
True.
Needs checked.
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ace.cafe

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Reply #14 on: August 12, 2016, 05:40:02 pm
This head, and the other one done along with it, will be the last two AVL heads that I can do.
I just got a bill for $2238.00 for each one of these heads done at the new shop. Total $4476. I sold these jobs at $1400 each(total $2800), so I am going $1600 in the hole for doing these 2 jobs. Obviously I cannot continue doing that.
 :(

So, that's that.
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Reply #15 on: August 12, 2016, 10:13:38 pm
Ouch!!!

Another 50 AVL owners sending their heads in might have made it economical.

HOWEVER, having seen what Bullet Whisperer does in squish band modifying the hemi heads for classic CI Bullet engines it's not un-replicatable (is that a word? It is now...). We'll see what sort of results the owners get from these two, there may be someone who can pick up the baton if interest ever picks up.

A.
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DanB

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Reply #16 on: August 20, 2016, 12:44:27 am
Here's a couple more of the head. It's a Beauty!   Missing the rockers which should be turning up soon.  Sucks that the new shop priced this mode as it has!!!





Need those rockers, then I can check for interference with that big intake valve!

Surely do appreciate all you've done ace!  Hoping I can help out with that big deficit burden.
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Reply #17 on: August 20, 2016, 02:36:45 pm
Very nice job on the head, Ace !
 Dan, take special care with cams and their timings - especially the inlet, with that large valve, make sure it clears the piston crown when it is starting to open - there is not much room to play with  ;)
 B.W.


DanB

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Reply #18 on: August 21, 2016, 05:27:58 am
Quote
Dan, take special care with cams and their timings - especially the inlet, with that large valve, make sure it clears the piston crown when it is starting to open

Yeah, I'm a bit worried about that was well. I'll lay out some clay and see what I see.  I figure I can play with the inlet cam, or cut recess in the crown or use thicker head gasket.  I'll post more when I have some data to share. 8)
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Reply #19 on: August 21, 2016, 09:21:58 am
Dan, what needs careful consideration here is the squish clearance. While I acknowledge this aspect of your engine is yours and Ace's 'baby', when I build engines with squish bands, I set the squish clearance correct first - usually 1mm, plus or minus only a few thou - then everything else has to be made to work within and around those parameters. For instance, it would be counter productive to end up with a 2mm clearance at the squish faces at TDC, in order for the valves to clear the piston - the engine would work, but the squish bands would not, so you wouldn't be getting anything from them, other than a boost in compression.
 If you pay particular attention to this area, you could reap dividends on the power front, but, get it wrong and you could be missing out on considerable power gains and / or risking mechanical damage  ;)
 B.W.


ace.cafe

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Reply #20 on: August 21, 2016, 03:12:41 pm
Yes, I fully agree.
Our prescription is to set the correct squish distance, which should be around 1mm,  and do a valve to piston clearance test. If there is any piston/valve touch, or insufficient clearance, we will make relief cuts in the piston crown to suit, so that we can retain proper squish distance, and also have appropriate safe clearance for the valves. We like .060"(1.5mm) for intake valve, and .100"(2.5mm) for exhaust valve clearance from the piston around TDC.

The area of concern for piston /valve touch is around TDC, and up to the point where the piston begins descending down the bore.
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Reply #21 on: August 21, 2016, 04:52:58 pm
With the stock 500 AVL/Electra-X I had no problems with a set of well-used "S" cams borrowed from B.W. and timed on the dots, but swapping to an apparently very similar-looking Indian Bullet inlet cam just resulted in inlet valve to piston contact. I could have tried retarding the inlet cam by one tooth but just put the AVL inlet cam back in the end.

As far as I can remember tooseevee's Fireballed AVL head works with stock AVL cams, so you're breaking new ground here!

A.
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DanB

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Reply #22 on: August 21, 2016, 11:01:22 pm
Thanks BW and Ace for the guidance. So I understand, the 1 mm, +|- squish has been designed into the head taking into account where the crown is in cylinder (.015 in below) and the thickness of the gasket. Is my thinking correct?  Do I check this with a quick test: laying out solder? 

Once squish done, then we see where the valves are and determine next move.

Am I about right?  Corrections, additions, feedback most welcome!  Looking to learn more!
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tooseevee

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Reply #23 on: August 22, 2016, 01:12:38 am
Thanks BW and Ace for the guidance. So I understand, the 1 mm, +|- squish has been designed into the head taking into account where the crown is in cylinder (.015 in below) and the thickness of the gasket. Is my thinking correct?  Do I check this with a quick test: laying out solder? 

Once squish done, then we see where the valves are and determine next move.

Am I about right?  Corrections, additions, feedback most welcome!  Looking to learn more!

             As Adrian said, My engine is stock except for what ACE did to the head.

              My clay test went fine. I made a clay pancake per Ace's thickness measurement (I have pictures somewhere). One valve (intake I think) just barely touched the clay.

               Hey - a favor - do you have the original 2008 Minda left hand switchset with the decomp lever built-in on your bike? If you do I will start a new subject line. 
« Last Edit: August 22, 2016, 01:15:30 am by tooseevee »
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DanB

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Reply #24 on: August 22, 2016, 01:18:22 pm
Quote
a favor - do you have the original 2008 Minda left hand switchset with the decomp lever built-in on your bike? If you do I will start a new subject line.

Yep. I still have it. Right now, the decomp just flaps in the breeze as it isn't connected to anything....
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tooseevee

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Reply #25 on: August 22, 2016, 01:42:14 pm
Yep. I still have it. Right now, the decomp just flaps in the breeze as it isn't connected to anything....

             Good. Thanks. I'm gonna start a new subject with some questions. Might be a couple hours.
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DanB

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Reply #26 on: September 03, 2016, 09:31:13 pm
Got the rockers back in. Wasn't hard with a hard wood dowel as a mandrel.



Next step: sent thickness of gasket and the piston height over to Ace.  Then we check for valove interference. 

2CV: did you find source for the hardened washers?  I pulled one off. Was going to leave it the way I found it... now I'm thinking,  since I'm here might as well go the job right.
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tooseevee

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Reply #27 on: September 03, 2016, 11:40:00 pm
           
2CV: did you find source for the hardened washers?  I pulled one off. Was going to leave it the way I found it... now I'm thinking,  since I'm here might as well go the job right.

             Sorry. Haven't been around 'til now (6:30PM).

              To be honest, I cannot remember what I ended up with now.

              I do remember that we had a lot of discussion about them (on this forum) back when I was planning my reassembly. I said "These are machined and very accurate washers. Where do I get them"?  ???  Some said "Don't need 'em", some said other things.

              I've never had any luck with this Search function and so it goes.

              I'm gonna go now and look at my bills and notes.

              Ace, do you remember any of this?
   
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tooseevee

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Reply #28 on: September 04, 2016, 12:12:27 am
   I'm gonna go now and look at my bills and notes.         

           Nope, no luck.

            I reassembled it in the Winter of 2014. All done by December. Something might be back in the dusty stacks somewhere about hardon washers... ;)

            I have it circled in my parts book (500321) so maybe I called Tim, but I have no bill for ever getting them (yes, I keep everything). Except meticulous notes  ;D
« Last Edit: September 04, 2016, 12:15:41 am by tooseevee »
RI USA '08 Black AVL Classic.9.8:1 ACEhead/manifold/canister. TM32/Open bottle/hot tube removed. Pertronix Coil. Fed mandates removed. Gr.TCI. Bobber seat. Battery in right side case. Decomp&all doodads removed. '30s Lucas taillight/7" visored headlight. Much blackout & wire/electrical upgrades.


tooseevee

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Reply #29 on: September 04, 2016, 12:23:34 am
This head, and the other one done along with it, will be the last two AVL heads that I can do.
I just got a bill for $2238.00 for each one of these heads done at the new shop. Total $4476. I sold these jobs at $1400 each(total $2800), so I am going $1600 in the hole for doing these 2 jobs. Obviously I cannot continue doing that.
 :(

So, that's that.

            I just realized that I've not read this until this very night (Sat. at 1/4 past 7) and I feel really bad now and don't know what to do except send you money I don't have 'cuz I'm a senior citizen on a fixed income  :D :-[
RI USA '08 Black AVL Classic.9.8:1 ACEhead/manifold/canister. TM32/Open bottle/hot tube removed. Pertronix Coil. Fed mandates removed. Gr.TCI. Bobber seat. Battery in right side case. Decomp&all doodads removed. '30s Lucas taillight/7" visored headlight. Much blackout & wire/electrical upgrades.


DanB

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Reply #30 on: September 04, 2016, 03:21:21 am
Quote
Nope, no luck.

Thanks for checking. I'll try my local shop.. if they have, good. If not, I'm moving on without them. 

Suppose I were an idiot, and suppose I were a member of Congress; but I repeat myself. ... Mark Twain
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ace.cafe

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Reply #31 on: September 04, 2016, 01:17:09 pm
Try Fastenal for the hardened washers. Bring the OEM ones for sizing.
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tooseevee

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Reply #32 on: September 04, 2016, 02:13:04 pm
Thanks for checking. I'll try my local shop.. if they have, good. If not, I'm moving on without them.

            Do you have time to wait and call Tim on Tuesday, Dan.

            And yes, I know how hard it is to wait  :(

             Just for encouragement, after I got through the "running out of gas in my own garage" fiasco, I rode 17 miles of town and country and this engine just runs miraculously well and quicker and smoother in every gear than before the ACEhead. Sorry for the hyperbole, but miraculous is the only word I can come up with.

              It will take some tuning frustration, of course, but you are going to have a big (pleasant) surprise  :)   
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DanB

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Reply #33 on: September 05, 2016, 09:45:45 am
Thanks for the encouragement and the thoughtful advice.  ;)

I am impatient at the moment but I don't want to screw this up. 
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ace.cafe

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Reply #34 on: September 05, 2016, 04:29:15 pm
Dan, I sent you an email with some instructions for a couple thing to try regarding getting the squish gap you want.
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Reply #35 on: October 09, 2016, 06:10:05 am
Update:

Work has gotten in the way, so I've had to slow down which is good I guess.

Found the hardened washers at a true value. They are M8s.

To get the squish I want, target 1mm. With the head gasket of 1.7mm thick, I've decided to eliminate the base gasket and use a permatex solution. This should raise the piston up and get me into the right range (at the moment the squish measures 1.9 mm). The piston will need to be cut as I have about .6mm clearance now. Need to dry fit and remeasure with clay thend talk to Ace.

While I have the barrel off, I noticed the machined crescent in the case for the old style breather. I have the lump on the outside as well. Does it make sense to drill out the lump and cap off the oil tank breather on an avl?  I know folks do this on the iron barrels. I seem to recall that it doesn't make sense for the avl as it's missing the hole between the tank and the case. Anyone do this?  Recommendations?

Photos will be coming soon.

Suppose I were an idiot, and suppose I were a member of Congress; but I repeat myself. ... Mark Twain
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Adrian II

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Reply #36 on: October 09, 2016, 09:38:34 pm
The AVL actually HAS the hole between the crankcase and oil tank portions of the casting, and it's bigger, as all the engine breathing is done via the oil tank (I gather late model CI Bullets are the same). You can put the breather system back to pre-2004 **if** you have the crankcases apart.

Bullet Whisperer is building me a 500 AVL engine at the moment and is plugging the hole between the cases, as I have already drilled and tapped the drive side crankcase for a 1/4" BSP x 1/2" hose tail for an old-style breather. You can use the original breather pipe lump and drill the breather pipe stub if the casting hasn't been polished away too much, which mine had.

A.

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Reply #37 on: October 09, 2016, 11:11:52 pm
I suppose drilling a crankcase vent hole like the old iron barrel engines had would reduce the crankcase pressure a bit but I would expect to see the same old problems that the iron barrel has, with lots of oil getting blown out thru the vent.

The inside of the crankcase around the crankshaft looks like a hurricane or cyclone of oil drops and mist swirling around in a dense cloud when the engine is running.  By drilling a vent right in that area, it's only logical that a lot of that cloud will be blown out thru the vent.

By venting the area into the oil tank, a lot of that cloud of oil mist will have a chance to collect on the interior walls and drain back to the bottom rather than be blown out thru the vent hole.

The larger area of the oil tank also has the effect of stabilizing the pressure which has escaped from the area of the crankshaft.  This more constant pressure is less likely to blow oil droplets out thru the vent.
(Think of a lower speed, constant blast of air blowing on a oil wetted surface vs directing a series of high velocity blasts of air at the oil wetted surface.  The high velocity air blasts will dislodge much of the oil and blow it some distance while the lower velocity constant velocity will tend to blow the oil in the direction of flow without causing it to become air-borne.)

This idea of a slower, controlled, release of the crankcase pressure into a large volume housing explains a good part of the reason the UCE engine vent on the rear of the engines RH side-case rarely blows large amounts of oil out.
Jim
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ace.cafe

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Reply #38 on: October 09, 2016, 11:48:45 pm
You actually can grind the valve relief in the piston crown yourself, if you are patient and have a good steady hand with a Dremel.
It isn't going to be very deep.
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DanB

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Reply #39 on: October 10, 2016, 02:15:28 am
Thanks Ace, Adrian and Arizoni.  Much appreciated. 

Since Im not splitting cases, I'm not drilling.  It appears remembered correctly, but for the wrong reason... One less thing to do  :P 

Removed the base gasket... damn that took forever to clean up that old crap.  It's done. 

The squish is now about 1.3mm; top left clay blob.  Heard audible click as the piston met the inlet valve (gently).  The clay, bottom right, tells me there is ~.3-.4mm clearance. Plan is to recess the crown a wee bit.

The holes in the clay are my thickness measurements...  :D



Purple clay worked pretty good.  ;)

Ace:  I sent over a more detailed email to you with more measurements.  Thanks Again!
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Adrian II

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Reply #40 on: October 10, 2016, 08:21:37 pm
Quote
Purple clay worked pretty good.  ;)

It's up there with blue string pudding...  ???

A.
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tooseevee

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Reply #41 on: October 17, 2016, 01:42:41 pm
Yep. TM32 with ace inlet (and now ported to match), bw s cams and a nice free flow cocktail shaker. Also have the performance tci but not yet installed. Changing one thing at a time.

             I'm still having the same old troubles with mine (the TM32); can't kick start it cold, very unreliable "first start of the day", cannot keep it running to get by that first 15 or 20 seconds and it makes that horrible sprag noise when it dies. I'm very frustrated and very pissed and sooner or later my sprag is going to blow out. There are thousands of bikes out there with TM Mikunis and they start. Why me?  >:( >:( I get more and more pissed as I type.

             I've done EVERYthing and I've not left a single tweak left untweaked since I put the head and the carb on. A couple days ago I pulled the carb off, TOTALLY cleaned it and blew it. I drained the gas tank totally and replaced with 3 gallons of brand new gas (E10), no MMO, no ethanol treatment chemicals, just gas. Another new plug. 1.5 turns out on the air mixture screw (yes, the tiny O-Ring and washer are OK and in place). Middle groove on needle, no shims. Needle valve is good, float bowl is filling and shutting off. Intake can't get any tighter unless I use Permatex (both sides are good radiator hose with an Ace can). I have no big white plastic ring in this carb; I don't go off big ramps or turn upside down. Again I could not keep it running (twice) and died with a horrendous bang both times and I just shut the garage door and went upstairs.   

           Good battery, always on the tender (a Wicked Smart Genius).

           Once it's running, it's fine and marvelous out on the road and in the street. Idle is steady as a rock, never dies, I can drop it to 800 and it ticks right over (I keep it at 1,000 when it's running). I can't do this more than one more season. I've had it.

            I've even considered buying another TM 32 just to eliminate this particular carb as the problem. I can't deal with learning and dialing another totally different carb again. Just can't do it again. I'm already at the end of too many ropes as it is. I'm close to just giving it away and wrapping it all up.

            PS: This engine would not run at all with the so-called "performance TCI" and I spent a lot of careful time and effort wiring it up. It bogged down totally with any load put on it.

           
« Last Edit: October 17, 2016, 01:53:29 pm by tooseevee »
RI USA '08 Black AVL Classic.9.8:1 ACEhead/manifold/canister. TM32/Open bottle/hot tube removed. Pertronix Coil. Fed mandates removed. Gr.TCI. Bobber seat. Battery in right side case. Decomp&all doodads removed. '30s Lucas taillight/7" visored headlight. Much blackout & wire/electrical upgrades.


ace.cafe

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Reply #42 on: October 17, 2016, 01:51:14 pm
Have you tried a couple of priming kicks with the fuel tap on before turning on the key. Sometimes it likes a little fuel inside on a cold start.

BTW, my bike has never started on the first kick when cold. And it always needs a little babysitting the throttle for the first 30-60 seconds too. I don't think your bike's behavior is abnormal.
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tooseevee

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Reply #43 on: October 17, 2016, 03:34:52 pm
Have you tried a couple of priming kicks with the fuel tap on before turning on the key. Sometimes it likes a little fuel inside on a cold start.

BTW, my bike has never started on the first kick when cold. And it always needs a little babysitting the throttle for the first 30-60 seconds too. I don't think your bike's behavior is abnormal.

           No, it's NOT normal.

           If I could get 10! seconds I could keep it running. I get one firing revolution and it dies with a bang like I hammered the cases with a ball peen twice. Then it does it a SECOND time. And dies. And I walk away, another ride passed up and just more pissed.

           And yes, I have tried everything and of course I've tried priming kicks. This isn't my first rodeo. And it's not 10 below zero. Remember, I've been kick starting harleys for 60 years (the first my mom's boyfriend's '46 knuckle when I was 12). Never had one with a starter. I can start this last harley that I built myself (my third) in the middle of the winter with 2 prime kicks, then 3 key-on kicks stone cold and it will drop right into a perfect idle after 15 seconds. And it NEVER kicks back.

          And I'm using the ES for the first start, not the kicker. I gave THAT up as a lost cause LONG ago.   

          There is no reason this engine should not start and run and warm up and GO. I think there is something about this carb that I just have not figured out yet (yes, I can take it apart in my sleep and I understand all the dialing in) and it is driving me mad.

           And I am totally on my own and people keep telling me things I knew 50 years ago that I have already gone through many times.

            I'm going to try ONE MORE THING for next season then this bike has to go out of my life and it's a shame because once it's running it's marvelous and there is ZERO to complain about in any aspect, but I will not keep this thing after next summer that will not start properly and is hellbent on destroying its sprag. I can't even ride somewhere and shut it off and have a cup of coffee. I don't trust it restarting. Why have it?
« Last Edit: October 17, 2016, 03:44:21 pm by tooseevee »
RI USA '08 Black AVL Classic.9.8:1 ACEhead/manifold/canister. TM32/Open bottle/hot tube removed. Pertronix Coil. Fed mandates removed. Gr.TCI. Bobber seat. Battery in right side case. Decomp&all doodads removed. '30s Lucas taillight/7" visored headlight. Much blackout & wire/electrical upgrades.


Bullet Whisperer

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Reply #44 on: October 17, 2016, 07:14:23 pm
A long shot here, tooseevee - do you happen to have a resistor plug AND resistor plug cap? I have fixed a fair number of poor starting and even misfiring bikes by junking one or the other - or both, for non resistor types - to get a total transformation. Just a thought and maybe worth checking?
 B.W.
« Last Edit: October 17, 2016, 07:16:55 pm by Bullet Whisperer »


armando_chavez

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Reply #45 on: October 17, 2016, 07:33:32 pm
ill take it off your hands


tooseevee

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Reply #46 on: October 17, 2016, 09:51:10 pm
A long shot here, tooseevee - do you happen to have a resistor plug AND resistor plug cap? I have fixed a fair number of poor starting and even misfiring bikes by junking one or the other - or both, for non resistor types - to get a total transformation. Just a thought and maybe worth checking?
 B.W.

           The cap is original stock to the engine brand new ('08). I've used nothing but BR8ES (and experimented for a while with BR9ES) since Day One. There's a mere 1,200 miles on this engine; about 1/2 with the stock head and BS29, about 1/2 with the Acehead, TM32, Ace can and a completely empty '60s or '70s British short bottle and no hot tube. ALL emissions stuff removed.

           17.5 Pilot, 190 Main, stock needle, middle groove, stock slide, air screw 1.5 turns out, matched Ace manifold.

            I haven't run it WOT so I don't know about the Main, but the 190 and 17.5 seem good out on the road and in traffic. Never even hints of trying to die once running.
RI USA '08 Black AVL Classic.9.8:1 ACEhead/manifold/canister. TM32/Open bottle/hot tube removed. Pertronix Coil. Fed mandates removed. Gr.TCI. Bobber seat. Battery in right side case. Decomp&all doodads removed. '30s Lucas taillight/7" visored headlight. Much blackout & wire/electrical upgrades.


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Reply #47 on: October 17, 2016, 10:48:32 pm
Drop the 'R' and try a B8ES ['R' = resistor]  ;)
 B.W.


Arizoni

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Reply #48 on: October 17, 2016, 10:57:48 pm
tooseevee

Yes, I know you've been thru the carburetor a lot of times and I'm sure everything is as it should be but I'm betting it is not.

I'm going to show my ignorance about your carb but all of the carb's I've ever seen have either a choke or a enrichment device for cold starts.  It must supply raw gas in large amounts before the engine is started and it must keep on providing this extra rich mixture during the first 30 seconds or longer.

The Adobe link I found shows the TM32 has some sort of "Starter Assembly" (item 1 on page 18-19).  There is also a "starter jet" (item 55).

It sounds like one, or both of these are not working at all.

The starter jet might be open but if the hole that supplies it with fuel is blocked off (or was never drilled all the way thru to it) the needed enrichment won't happen.

http://www.mikunipower.com/catalog/mikunicarburetorcatalog2012.pdf

I know you don't want to frinkle with the carb any more but if it was mine, I would check out these "starter" parts and any hole that leads to them or from them from the float chamber or into the air path.
« Last Edit: October 17, 2016, 11:00:26 pm by Arizoni »
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ace.cafe

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Reply #49 on: October 17, 2016, 11:23:14 pm
17.5 pilot jet cannot be right.
30 pilot would be typical.

I agreen also with BW's suspicion about spark.
Don't overlook the possibility of a weak coil either. The stock coils usually are not great.
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tooseevee

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Reply #50 on: October 18, 2016, 02:36:16 am
Drop the 'R' and try a B8ES ['R' = resistor]  ;)
 B.W.

           Nothing but BR9ES (or BR8ES) has ever been recommended by anybody here for the Lean Burn AVL. I tried the 8s for a while recommended by Ace because I was fouling plugs so fast.
« Last Edit: October 18, 2016, 03:03:58 am by tooseevee »
RI USA '08 Black AVL Classic.9.8:1 ACEhead/manifold/canister. TM32/Open bottle/hot tube removed. Pertronix Coil. Fed mandates removed. Gr.TCI. Bobber seat. Battery in right side case. Decomp&all doodads removed. '30s Lucas taillight/7" visored headlight. Much blackout & wire/electrical upgrades.


tooseevee

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Reply #51 on: October 18, 2016, 02:48:35 am
17.5 pilot jet cannot be right.
30 pilot would be typical.

I agree also with BW's suspicion about spark.
Don't overlook the possibility of a weak coil either. The stock coils usually are not great.

           I think I wrote 17.5 instead of 27.5 (hangover from the BS29). If you remember I went to the 27.5 from the 30 when I was fouling plugs so fast and it was bogging down at 1/2 throttle.

            Same when you suggested trying the BR8ES to help the fouling.

            It runs marvelously well once it's running.

            No one but BW has ever suggested a B9ES for the AVL.
RI USA '08 Black AVL Classic.9.8:1 ACEhead/manifold/canister. TM32/Open bottle/hot tube removed. Pertronix Coil. Fed mandates removed. Gr.TCI. Bobber seat. Battery in right side case. Decomp&all doodads removed. '30s Lucas taillight/7" visored headlight. Much blackout & wire/electrical upgrades.


tooseevee

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Reply #52 on: October 18, 2016, 02:59:13 am
tooseevee

Yes, I know you've been thru the carburetor a lot of times and I'm sure everything is as it should be but I'm betting it is not.

I'm going to show my ignorance about your carb but all of the carb's I've ever seen have either a choke or a enrichment device for cold starts.  It must supply raw gas in large amounts before the engine is started and it must keep on providing this extra rich mixture during the first 30 seconds or longer.

The Adobe link I found shows the TM32 has some sort of "Starter Assembly" (item 1 on page 18-19).  There is also a "starter jet" (item 55).

It sounds like one, or both of these are not working at all.

The starter jet might be open but if the hole that supplies it with fuel is blocked off (or was never drilled all the way thru to it) the needed enrichment won't happen.

http://www.mikunipower.com/catalog/mikunicarburetorcatalog2012.pdf

I know you don't want to frinkle with the carb any more but if it was mine, I would check out these "starter" parts and any hole that leads to them or from them from the float chamber or into the air path.

            The enrichener works fine. It immediately floods the cylinder, a giant puff of smoke erupts out both ends and the engine doesn't start again 'til you pull the plug.

             It's not "cold" here. That thing is for when it's Cold. It Will Not Start with any use of the enrichener. I've had it out; it's clean and shiny and blows carb cleaner right through.

             I don't know what to say any more, guys. I ain't gettin' nowhere fast, but I will. I will beat this sumbitch.
« Last Edit: October 21, 2016, 12:37:40 am by tooseevee »
RI USA '08 Black AVL Classic.9.8:1 ACEhead/manifold/canister. TM32/Open bottle/hot tube removed. Pertronix Coil. Fed mandates removed. Gr.TCI. Bobber seat. Battery in right side case. Decomp&all doodads removed. '30s Lucas taillight/7" visored headlight. Much blackout & wire/electrical upgrades.


tooseevee

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Reply #53 on: October 28, 2016, 08:32:50 pm
           Dan,

                Is your gas tank still off?

                I'm doing some prethinking about this round Pertronix; mount to downtube out in the air or put it under tank.

                 Is there room for it where the little stock coil is? Is the tank channel wide enough for it?

                  It's a standard size 2 1/4"x5" round coil. A frame clamp almost has to be custom fabbed to look right.
RI USA '08 Black AVL Classic.9.8:1 ACEhead/manifold/canister. TM32/Open bottle/hot tube removed. Pertronix Coil. Fed mandates removed. Gr.TCI. Bobber seat. Battery in right side case. Decomp&all doodads removed. '30s Lucas taillight/7" visored headlight. Much blackout & wire/electrical upgrades.


DanB

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Reply #54 on: October 29, 2016, 02:40:22 pm
Yes the tank is still off. I'll get some measurements for you.
Suppose I were an idiot, and suppose I were a member of Congress; but I repeat myself. ... Mark Twain
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DanB

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Reply #55 on: October 29, 2016, 07:09:44 pm
Ok. Took some pics of the oem coil. It measures about 3.5 long by ~1.5 diameter.

Remember my frame is an Electra. With that said, there's a channel formed by welded plates on either side of the frame top tube and the front drop. That channel is 1.5 or a bit more in width. I'm thinking if you want to use the same location, those plates will need to be dealt with.
Length wise, 5 inches shouldnt be a problem.





Suppose I were an idiot, and suppose I were a member of Congress; but I repeat myself. ... Mark Twain
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tooseevee

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Reply #56 on: October 29, 2016, 10:00:50 pm
Ok. Took some pics of the oem coil. It measures about 3.5 long by ~1.5 diameter.

Remember my frame is an Electra. With that said, there's a channel formed by welded plates on either side of the frame top tube and the front drop. That channel is 1.5 or a bit more in width. I'm thinking if you want to use the same location, those plates will need to be dealt with.
Length wise, 5 inches shouldnt be a problem.


             Oh, yeah. Looks good. Thanks. I think there is room for it with the long dimension mounted horizontal and Ty-Wrapped with something for it to cushion against. The rim around the top of the coil will keep it from working its way loose.

             Your pictures got me off my butt and on my knees (which I hate) and I looked up in there with a good light. Looks like plenty room  :)

             OR I could easily very tightly Ty-Wrap it to the downtube again with something as a cushion and to prevent sliding. Or even a couple nice hose clamps that didn't look too cheesy. Paint 'em black.

             
« Last Edit: October 29, 2016, 10:08:23 pm by tooseevee »
RI USA '08 Black AVL Classic.9.8:1 ACEhead/manifold/canister. TM32/Open bottle/hot tube removed. Pertronix Coil. Fed mandates removed. Gr.TCI. Bobber seat. Battery in right side case. Decomp&all doodads removed. '30s Lucas taillight/7" visored headlight. Much blackout & wire/electrical upgrades.


DanB

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Reply #57 on: March 20, 2017, 03:01:12 am
It's been a long time since I posted on this thread.

Today, she fired up on the 3rd kick with the Ace AVL modded head!  What a sound!!  The bike has been in various different stages of disassembly since 12/2015 and it all came  together today ;D

She's idles like a kitten; sounds so much more stable and at ease. Haven't gone out on a test ride yet. Still need to finish rear suspension and then the tuning on the card begins.

I think this is the only Ace head with BW S cams in it. Can't wait to get some road results.

Now, I'll finish that glass of single malt I've poured myself for this special occasion.  :o

(Thank you Ace!)
Suppose I were an idiot, and suppose I were a member of Congress; but I repeat myself. ... Mark Twain
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ace.cafe

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Reply #58 on: March 20, 2017, 12:16:29 pm
Awesome, Dan!
 8)

Very glad to see it coming together.
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DanB

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Reply #59 on: March 20, 2017, 12:26:01 pm
Quick video. My son took it so it's a bit 'live action' :)

https://youtu.be/9WFdXtlmGcU
Suppose I were an idiot, and suppose I were a member of Congress; but I repeat myself. ... Mark Twain
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heloego

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Reply #60 on: March 20, 2017, 01:58:55 pm
Oooh! That sounds good!
Congrats, DanB!  8)
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tooseevee

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Reply #61 on: March 20, 2017, 02:39:01 pm
Oooh! That sounds good!
Congrats, DanB!  8)

            Hey Dan. I just noticed this post and your previous posts this morning. I am no longer notified of new posts to threads I watch and haven't been for a long time now.

             Glad to hear you are doing well and moving on to tuning the TM32. It sounds good and starts easily as mine does after it's warm. Have you left the round plastic ring on the jet holder in?
I've had my carb totally off and apart over the winter and have put it back on. I don't think the plastic ring matters a whit with my style of riding, but I put it back in anyway.

       I've also done away with the little black thing, hidden under the tank, that is called a coil nowadays. It now has an actual coil that looks like a coil. That's the last time mine was started (maybe Nov '16). Battery out on tender since then.

            Anyway, congrats and hope yours goes well. I doubt I'll do anything until May. I've been like a hundred year old turtle this winter (my 79th) and until the sun burns my shell I'm keeping my head in. I'll take my dog out & snow blow the driveway, but that's it  ;D

             (PS: I can't wait to get on it and see if what I've done matters).

       I've given up on obsessing about the first cold start of the day any more. I guess it's just never going to happen. What I've been thinking over the many many months of trying to solve it is that it's a combination of a few things the main ones being the increased compression (9.8:1) and the power of my kick. I don't think I'm driving enough rotation power because of my weight (138) and loss of muscle power due to 79 yrs of EDS to get the piston to the SECOND spark and the piston is being driven back when that 2nd spark comes. I can feel the 1st spark on a first-of-the-morning cold kick start, but the 2nd spark results in a kickback because there's simply not enough rotational power to get over TDC after that 2nd spark.

         Does that make sense?   

         Are you getting stone-cold kick starts?   
« Last Edit: March 20, 2017, 03:19:11 pm by tooseevee »
RI USA '08 Black AVL Classic.9.8:1 ACEhead/manifold/canister. TM32/Open bottle/hot tube removed. Pertronix Coil. Fed mandates removed. Gr.TCI. Bobber seat. Battery in right side case. Decomp&all doodads removed. '30s Lucas taillight/7" visored headlight. Much blackout & wire/electrical upgrades.


DanB

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Reply #62 on: March 20, 2017, 02:56:57 pm
Hi 2CV,

I took that out a couple of years ago. Had to also replace the gaskets on the tm.  They were very brittle from sitting so long.

I'll keep you posted on the cold starts. Right now I have a 27.5 pilot, 1.5 turns out on the mixer, and am using a b9es plug. I pulled all the estart stuff so I need a reliable kick start.
Suppose I were an idiot, and suppose I were a member of Congress; but I repeat myself. ... Mark Twain
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tooseevee

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Reply #63 on: March 20, 2017, 05:46:29 pm
Hi 2CV,

I took that (plastic ring) out a couple of years ago.

I'll keep you posted on the cold starts. I pulled all the estart stuff so I need a reliable kick start.

           I remember now that we were talking about the white plastic ring in the TM32 years ago and I also forgot that you had pulled your electric start stuff. This saga has been going on now for a long time. For me since December 2009 and each year has added a dozen (or more) chapters to the story.

           

RI USA '08 Black AVL Classic.9.8:1 ACEhead/manifold/canister. TM32/Open bottle/hot tube removed. Pertronix Coil. Fed mandates removed. Gr.TCI. Bobber seat. Battery in right side case. Decomp&all doodads removed. '30s Lucas taillight/7" visored headlight. Much blackout & wire/electrical upgrades.


Otto_Ing

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Reply #64 on: March 20, 2017, 05:52:37 pm
Quick video. My son took it so it's a bit 'live action' :)

https://youtu.be/9WFdXtlmGcU

Cool, sound like a ball of fire.  ;D


Adrian II

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Reply #65 on: March 20, 2017, 07:32:58 pm
Road test reports are eagerly awaited...  8)

A.
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DanB

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Reply #66 on: March 21, 2017, 12:36:26 am
I can't wait as well Adrian. Still got a number of things to do:
1. Progressive shocks
2. Flush brake fluid
3. Fix wonky rear indicator
4. Polish, Polish,  Polish the cases (I coated everything before winter) 
Road!
5. Then... hook up the performance tci.

I haven't measured the compression yet. I kicked it over this am when it was cold. One kick start, but she wasn't happy about it. My son was jumping on it (110 lbs) and couldn't get it past compression stroke. Guess I'll have to calibrate him...
Suppose I were an idiot, and suppose I were a member of Congress; but I repeat myself. ... Mark Twain
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Adrian II

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Reply #67 on: March 21, 2017, 04:45:58 pm
With a stock AVL head it is possible to fit the old style Bullet decompressor valve, I wouldn't be without it on my AVL hybrid.

That won't be so easy to do with the re-worked Fireball combustion chamber, but I did trade a few messages with Ace about this when I was considering having an AVL Fireball engine myself, and if I remember correctly, he thought it might still be possible to drill through and tap for a smaller (eg chainsaw type) decomp valve.

A.
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DanB

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Reply #68 on: March 25, 2017, 09:37:03 pm
I thought about that Adrian... the idea just got lost over time. It's a good idea still.

I'm all buttoned up and ready for road test. I'm not sure about the Progressive shocks I got from CMW. Might have spring rubbing against the subframe. I can get a piece of paper between coil and frame loop. Guess we'll see.

And.... it's f'ing raining now  >:(
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DanB

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Reply #69 on: March 29, 2017, 08:53:00 pm
First road test @ 42F  ;D

First impressions:
- nearly lost my grip on the handlebars when I went into second!  That was a very nice feeling!
- She spins up to 60 in 3rd without a lot of effort.
- never made it into 5th... she likes to pull. Thinking the ton is possible.
- rear progressive shocks clear fine and are damn nice! Should have done that a long time ago as well.

Things to work on:
- lots of popping on decel. It was pretty cold... need to richen pilot up a scouch
- noticed some blow by on the plug. Need to cinch that up.
- very uneven performance  at 1/8-1/4 throttle. Have a p6 in there at the moment. Again, maybe the cold? a p8?  Usually when it hits 70, I drop a p4 in there. Time will tell.


Suppose I were an idiot, and suppose I were a member of Congress; but I repeat myself. ... Mark Twain
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ace.cafe

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Reply #70 on: March 29, 2017, 09:05:31 pm
Screw in the little air bleed screw a quarter turn,  and re-set the idle speed after that, and see how it is.
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tooseevee

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Reply #71 on: March 29, 2017, 10:22:04 pm
First road test @ 42F  ;D

First impressions:
- nearly lost my grip on the handlebars when I went into second!  That was a very nice feeling!
- She spins up to 60 in 3rd without a lot of effort.
- never made it into 5th... she likes to pull. Thinking the ton is possible.
Things to work on:
- lots of popping on decel. It was pretty cold... need to richen pilot up a scouch
- noticed some blow by on the plug. Need to cinch that up.
- very uneven performance  at 1/8-1/4 throttle. Have a p6 in there at the moment. Again, maybe the cold? a p8?  Usually when it hits 70, I drop a p4 in there. Time will tell.

           You make my palms sweat wanting to get a few warm days in a row here. I'm so sick of it. Every winter (79 of them) gets longer and 40° just ain't warm to this old turtle. I'm dialed in for 80 in the shade  :)

            Ain't that ACEhead nice ?  :) :) ;) Makes it a totally different feeling and acting engine. I'm so glad you're feeling good about it. And you've only ridden a few miles.

             Is your exhaust more or less wide open with a small baffle to take the bark off like mine? Your pop is probbly from being a hair lean from the cold air.

           
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Reply #72 on: March 29, 2017, 11:01:28 pm
Looking good, Dan. What a shame RE India never looked beyond making an emissions dodger out of this model, I think some at the Chennai factory did realise what it could have been, but the commercial pressures were leading in a different direction.

My previous post about the 500 AVL having the potential to equal or better the performance of a genuine Redditch Fury might not have been too far off the mark, will you be able to get this beast to a dyno when it's all dialled-in to your satisfaction?

A.
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heloego

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Reply #73 on: March 30, 2017, 04:07:30 pm
   I'm tickled for you for your ride, DanB!
   While I only freed up the breathing and upped the carb on mine I can definitely agree that the performance change is significant!  ;D
   Re the popping on decel, +1 adjusting your air screw in 1/4 turn (at first) and re-adjusting the idle. I had to play with mine a bit, but for now I think I have it dialed in.
   Put 162 miles so far on the new rings and currently she pulls very well in all gears and I have yet to exceed 1/2 throttle for more than a second or two.
   I only rode it once before starting the project. A 2-mile test ride before purchase, and the 28mm CV with all the other crap made for an unimpressive ride, even on fairly level roads. I'm certain I would have had to gear down going up 9-mile Hill between here and the Rio Puerco.
   Last week's ride left no doubt about the increase in performance. Up hill to 65 in 4th, then to 5th, and she pulled smoothly to 75 with just a hair over 1/2 throttle for the next 8 miles to the top of the hill.  ;D
   Today or tomorrow I'll get it back on the same route to check out the new saddle.

   
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Reply #74 on: April 09, 2017, 04:59:03 pm
Been a busy couple of weeks and I'm slow to get onto the forum.

Update:
- Temps in the mid 60. Fouled the plug trying to cold start. Still trying to figure out what the head wants at start. Had a couple of cough ups thru the carb and a kick back that nearly put my knee into the ceiling. It's got a 27.5 pilot in now. Leaned it by 1/4 and seems to be OK.
- put 60 miles on yesterday. Ace, the head just spins up so easily!  I hit 95 (indicated) before I knew it around 5500 rpm I think. Then I noticed I had oil gushing out the pushrod adjuster cover... pulled over and corrected that.
- pulled the plug. Black, black, black. I didn't do proper chops and spent most of the ride at 1/8 to 1/4 throttle. Going to drop a p4 in there. Today it's 70s so, I'll drop the mains to a 185 and start my chops. Still on the stock needle, lifted by a shim. Thinking I gotta pull that out of there... one thing at a time.

Have to remember to go easy on her. I was a bit hard on it Yesterday!  What fun though!

I hope to dyno at some point. Right now I'll just use my seat of the pants measures  ;D

2CV - I blew the damn baffle out on the first ride so it's wide open. I did replace it with a sink drainer type. A little back pressure but not much!  The mids rev really nicely don't they?!

Heloego: thanks! I'm watching your electra as well. Like what you're doing; that's a sweet color on it!

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heloego

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Reply #75 on: April 09, 2017, 09:00:37 pm
   Thanky DanB!
   This Thursday 04/13 I'll be able to rack some more miles on her. Still 80+ left before an oil change. I'll take her up to full throttle, then chops to see what the main or needle will need.
   Even without a 535 upgrade I'm still stoked at the increase in performance!  ;D
   The last couple of weeks have been so busy with real life all I've been able to do is go in the garage and look at her. :(
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Reply #76 on: April 11, 2017, 02:58:26 am
A question. May be more 'general' in nature than specific to my build.

I noticed the performance around the mid Rpm drop off as the engine ran hotter. Like after 40 minutes or so. Comparative to the first 20 minutes if that makes sense. I'm assuming that things come up to temp, the fueling mixture becomes less effective(?-- which means a wildass guess).  :P

Anyone else notice this or just me? If so, how to tune and address?
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ace.cafe

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Reply #77 on: April 11, 2017, 02:59:26 pm
Could be getting very hot. That could affect it.
My advice is to use shorter rides during break-in, to keep the temps down during the early periods of high friction.
10 -15 minutes per ride is probably best until you hit 250 miles. Then change oil again, and then you can try some 30-45 minute rides.
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Reply #78 on: April 12, 2017, 02:20:19 am
Thanks Ace. Had not thought of that (same rings, piston, cylinder...).

Guess I should go easier....
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Reply #79 on: April 17, 2017, 03:02:24 am
She's running very nice now.
P4 jet, and 27.5 pilot about 1 3/4 turns out.
Feels like the compression is getting stronger... really enjoying the ride. So smooth!  8)

That oil leak... thought it was the tappet cover.  It's not. Seems like I have a leak from the push rod tunnel out thru the base gasket at the top right corner looking down. Damn!  Looks like I've got to pull the head and jug again.   :-\

Thinking I may want to get some non-oem head and base gaskets at specific thicknesses. Any recommendations?
« Last Edit: April 17, 2017, 03:04:39 am by DanB »
Suppose I were an idiot, and suppose I were a member of Congress; but I repeat myself. ... Mark Twain
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ace.cafe

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Reply #80 on: April 17, 2017, 02:40:27 pm
She's running very nice now.
P4 jet, and 27.5 pilot about 1 3/4 turns out.
Feels like the compression is getting stronger... really enjoying the ride. So smooth!  8)

That oil leak... thought it was the tappet cover.  It's not. Seems like I have a leak from the push rod tunnel out thru the base gasket at the top right corner looking down. Damn!  Looks like I've got to pull the head and jug again.   :-\

Thinking I may want to get some non-oem head and base gaskets at specific thicknesses. Any recommendations?
Just use the same thickness base gasket with a better sealing compound on it. You don't want to mess up the squish distance at this point.
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Reply #81 on: April 25, 2017, 02:07:53 am
Thanks for that Ace. I tore it down yesterday and used Ultra Black RTV for the base. Followed the instructions to the letter and looks like I got a pretty consistent bead. <fingers crossed>

Tonight I'm planning to get the ins and outs back on.
Suppose I were an idiot, and suppose I were a member of Congress; but I repeat myself. ... Mark Twain
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tooseevee

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Reply #82 on: April 25, 2017, 01:14:42 pm
Thanks for that Ace. I tore it down yesterday and used Ultra Black RTV for the base. Followed the instructions to the letter and looks like I got a pretty consistent bead. <fingers crossed>

Tonight I'm planning to get the ins and outs back on.

            Hey Dan,
                    Just noticed your post this morning (Tuesday) at 6AM. Just wanted to wish you luck with this latest teardown. I'm watching your story with this engine with great interest. It's been so wet and cold and damp and windy and shitty all through April that I still haven't even uncovered the bike or put the battery in and I just get another day older every day. I'm really worried this might be my last riding season.

           At the end of the season last year I tore down the carb completely and cleaned it meticulously. Back to square one. I've also installed the Pertronix coil and a new resistorless plug wire that looks like the old vintage fabric covered ones and gotten rid of the little black box hidden under the gas tank. Can't wait to get it out on the road the first time.

             I've also got a cool little glass bowl fuel filter to fit up, but I won't do that until I've gotten a few rides in - hopefully in May??  ??? ???

         The AVL posts are really getting few and far between. Good luck.
RI USA '08 Black AVL Classic.9.8:1 ACEhead/manifold/canister. TM32/Open bottle/hot tube removed. Pertronix Coil. Fed mandates removed. Gr.TCI. Bobber seat. Battery in right side case. Decomp&all doodads removed. '30s Lucas taillight/7" visored headlight. Much blackout & wire/electrical upgrades.


Adrian II

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Reply #83 on: April 25, 2017, 04:23:40 pm
Quote
The AVL posts are really getting few and far between. Good luck.

There are a few us us lunatics who still like them, but I think we have always been a minority in RE-land. Hang in there, guys.

I have got another AVL project on the go (not a Fireball or ASBO, but should still be fun) and will put up some pictures when it's appropriate to rally the faithful.

A.
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tooseevee

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Reply #84 on: April 25, 2017, 08:52:53 pm
There are a few us us lunatics who still like them, but I think we have always been a minority in RE-land. Hang in there, guys.

I have got another AVL project on the go (not a Fireball or ASBO, but should still be fun) and will put up some pictures when it's appropriate to rally the faithful.

A.

            I'll always be thankful that I finally homed in on an AVL and not an Ironhead or a UCE. It was purely blind luck. All three were available when I found the zero mileage, perfect '08 Classic in 2010. To me the AVL is sort of analogous to the Shovelhead that filled the gap for so many years between the Panhead and the EVO.

          My only wish is that I could make it a reliable cold kick starter so I could totally rip out everything to do with that horrible fucking electric starter and sprag. I could start my kick-only shovel in the dead of winter in 3 to 4 kicks, but not this black Indian bitch  :o >:( And none of them EVER kicked back like this bitch.
« Last Edit: April 25, 2017, 08:59:30 pm by tooseevee »
RI USA '08 Black AVL Classic.9.8:1 ACEhead/manifold/canister. TM32/Open bottle/hot tube removed. Pertronix Coil. Fed mandates removed. Gr.TCI. Bobber seat. Battery in right side case. Decomp&all doodads removed. '30s Lucas taillight/7" visored headlight. Much blackout & wire/electrical upgrades.


heloego

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Reply #85 on: April 25, 2017, 11:35:49 pm
   Yeah, keep us posted Dan!  8)
   I too can attest to that nasty kick back. Makes me think it should be nick named the "Dubai Crippler" EDIT: cuz "it du hurt, bai the way!  ;)
   Like tooseevee I found mine by pure luck, and now that I've had a chance to be one with it the decision "to sell, or not to sell" my project is a damned hard one since I now enjoy the AVL more than my UCE. I'll probably keep it.  ;D
   (I think we males can relate to Postpartum Syndrome at least in this respect , so just to avoid the depression... ::) )
« Last Edit: April 26, 2017, 12:30:56 pm by heloego »
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ace.cafe

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Reply #86 on: April 25, 2017, 11:48:14 pm
            I'll always be thankful that I finally homed in on an AVL and not an Ironhead or a UCE. It was purely blind luck. All three were available when I found the zero mileage, perfect '08 Classic in 2010. To me the AVL is sort of analogous to the Shovelhead that filled the gap for so many years between the Panhead and the EVO.

          My only wish is that I could make it a reliable cold kick starter so I could totally rip out everything to do with that horrible fucking electric starter and sprag. I could start my kick-only shovel in the dead of winter in 3 to 4 kicks, but not this black Indian bitch  :o >:( And none of them EVER kicked back like this bitch.
Tooseevee,
Try retarding the static ignition timing about 2 degrees.
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Reply #87 on: April 26, 2017, 12:50:32 am
Quote
                    Just noticed your post this morning (Tuesday) at 6AM. Just wanted to wish you luck with this latest teardown. I'm watching your story with this engine with great interest. It's been so wet and cold and damp and windy and shitty all through April that I still haven't even uncovered the bike or put the battery in and I just get another day older every day. I'm really worried this might be my last riding season.

Thanks 2CV and all that keep posting in the AVL section!  I'm hoping you got many more years on the black indian b$tch  ;D

Ace, how could we retard with the fixed system?  I thought the woodruff key change could give too much (I remember reading up on it but it was a while ago). Could the hall sensor be physically moved by elongating the mounting holes--the BW idea?  Adrian, you ever dig into the timing electrics?

Btw, exhaust back in; oil in the rockers; pushrods in. Carb and few bits and bobs are next.
Suppose I were an idiot, and suppose I were a member of Congress; but I repeat myself. ... Mark Twain
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ace.cafe

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Reply #88 on: April 26, 2017, 01:20:28 am
Elongating the holes should be enough.
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Reply #89 on: April 26, 2017, 03:29:36 am
Quote
Adrian, you ever dig into the timing electrics?

I sort of got around that problem, possibly via an extreme route. The ultimate solution is to build a hybrid AVL motor around a set of modified C.I. crankcases having the full set of timing gears. You can then either fit the contact breaker drive with points/electronic ignition of your choice, or, even better, fit a BT-H magneto!  8) Adjustable ignition achieved. That way you also have some decent cam followers/tappets instead of the more fragile AVL version.

I'm also hoping to build a spare engine from the left-over pile of AVL debris and will see how practical it is to retro-fit the timing gears to the AVL crankcase and timing cover, so that I can use an original Lucas SR1 magneto and auto advance unit like the '56-'59 Redditch Bullets were fitted with. Not rocket science, it just needs some accurate machining. I could even fit a Lucas N1 with manual advance and retard. Hmm...

As for starting, the C.I. Bullet decompressor I retro-fitted to the AVL cylinder head definitely works. You may still be able to modify the Fireball AVL head to take a chainsaw decompressor valve to give yourselves an easier time, though check with Ace on that one.

My new AVL project will be using the CDI ignition off the 350 AVLs, it is fixed timing but I have heard from someone who uses one that it is also a very good system.

A.
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Reply #90 on: May 09, 2017, 07:42:06 am
Update:  back together for a couple of weeks. Real crap weather; wet and cold.  I've gotten ~60 miles on it with time to cool down. Looking very good!
Adrian: you got me thinking about a 36mm carb now. My wife is not happy :)
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Reply #91 on: May 19, 2017, 05:27:01 pm
I hope with me being in (Old) England and you being in the middle of the USA I am safe from the reach of your unhappy wife!

There have been some good results with 36mm carbs, I don't think anyone has equalled Bullet Whisperer's 103mph on an Electra-X (except maybe Basanti in India). B.W. was using an Amal Mk2, for which I think he still has a record of the settings somewhere.

You might be able to reduce the risk of marital strife if a good used 36mm carb shows up for somewhat less than the price of a new one. Drop me a PM, who knows?

A.
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Reply #92 on: May 20, 2017, 05:28:49 am
Lol. I think you're safe. Although, we used to live in south east England... she has many contacts  ::)

PM on its way!

I have been pushing it a bit lately. Just about due to change the oil this weekend. She revs very nicely; prefers a bit cooler weather where we get to 90 indicated fairly quickly.  Need to address a front end wobble tho.
« Last Edit: May 20, 2017, 05:37:30 am by DanB »
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Reply #93 on: July 04, 2017, 04:12:47 am
Got about a 1000 miles now on the ace head/bw S cam combo!  It runs real smooth and really likes the  midrange; 3500 to 5000. I'm hoping to borrow my sons 'not a go pro' chest camera and see if I can share.

The wobble continues to elude me. Switched back and forth between the stock and progressive shocks. No difference.

Decided, ah hell, due for new tires anyway so got some k70s; front is on... back next.


 Forks appear ok; oil level the same in both. Wheel bearings ok and I think the swing arm is ok as well. Once I get the back tire on I'll align and adjust chain tension.
« Last Edit: July 04, 2017, 05:24:47 am by DanB »
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Adrian II

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Reply #94 on: July 04, 2017, 02:21:15 pm
The occasional wheel has escaped quality control where the rim has been misaligned, still happening with UCE models, have you checked wheel alignment with a straight edge?

A.
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tooseevee

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Reply #95 on: July 04, 2017, 10:23:34 pm
Got about a 1000 miles now on the ace head/bw S cam combo!  It runs real smooth and really likes the  midrange; 3500 to 5000. I'm hoping to borrow my sons 'not a go pro' chest camera and see if I can share.

The wobble continues to elude me. Switched back and forth between the stock and progressive shocks. No difference.

Decided, ah hell, due for new tires anyway so got some k70s; front is on... back next.
 Forks appear ok; oil level the same in both. Wheel bearings ok and I think the swing arm is ok as well. Once I get the back tire on I'll align and adjust chain tension.

             Happy 4th !!

             I've been wonderin' how you've been doin'. It's been a while and I'm glad to hear the engine is running well and that you're so happy with it.

             Mine also is running miraculously well and is just a pure pleasure out on the road. This is my 4th season with the ACEhead and the TM 32; the 1st two were spent dialing in and details then more of a continuous, frustrating (read maddening), chasing of why this engine will not kickstart first start of the day (yes, I've tried a thousand experiments since May 2014, logically and methodically. Nothing worked).

              Finally the last week of June I seem to have solved it. I'm not ready to talk about yet, but this very morning I got my 12th cold kick start in the morning in a row since the 23rd of June. And that's with no strain and only a little pain just letting my 138 pounds "fall" on the kicker (years ago I said here I would win one way or another or die kicking).

           The smile on my face when it has easily kickstarted these twelve days is almost painful. But priceless.

              I'm not ready to talk about it yet because I don't believe it myself, but it is definitely proving out to be empirically and pragmatically true after 12 straight days.

              I'm really glad to hear your engine is good  :) :) ;D ;D   
« Last Edit: July 04, 2017, 10:31:02 pm by tooseevee »
RI USA '08 Black AVL Classic.9.8:1 ACEhead/manifold/canister. TM32/Open bottle/hot tube removed. Pertronix Coil. Fed mandates removed. Gr.TCI. Bobber seat. Battery in right side case. Decomp&all doodads removed. '30s Lucas taillight/7" visored headlight. Much blackout & wire/electrical upgrades.


heloego

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Reply #96 on: July 05, 2017, 01:46:41 am
Happy Day of Alcohol and Explosives!  ::) ;)

   Glad to hear the good news Mr. Dan!!!  ;D
   Re the wobble:
      1. How fast were you moving when the wobble made itself known? Mine came in about 75mph indicated. Lowering myself to reduce the profile helped at first, but installing a decent wind screen stopped it, and gained another 10mph (though there's no way I could maintain that speed and remain sane  ;) )
      2. Are you suspecting the wheel or the swing arm? Adrian already mentioned the possible poorly aligned rim, but have you checked play in the SA bearings? Worn bolt?
      3. The K70's will definitely wobble on grooved concrete, like on section of a freeway, or bridge. Good tire pressure will diminish it a bit, but it won't go away. Guess it has to do with the tread pattern.

   @tooseevee:
      I am very interested in hearing more about your kick start solution! When you are no longer in denial, of course.  ;) I suppose at least 100 successful morning kicks might allay your fears, but honest injun I's settle for only another 2 or 3.  ;D
« Last Edit: July 05, 2017, 01:49:42 am by heloego »
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Reply #97 on: July 05, 2017, 05:26:39 am
Thanks all for the thoughts and feedback.

The wobble starts around 75-85. At first I thought alignment, until I took a turn around 65 toward the right and the wobble started. A pucker moment  :o

New thought : "wheel bearing". I have bearings in the freeze as does everyone... since I was doing the bearings, why not put new tires on... haven't gone above 40 on the k70s. The old avons actually looked pretty sad (neglect). I still need to change the back tire. The front was a pita and required an emergency tube purchase.... but... the front bearings showed no sign of being bad. No movement at all... no crunch. Spun freely. The wheel is true. Check it on a make shift bicycle wheel stand

I've changed rear shocks as well. When they were off I checked swing arm, and rear wheel. Seemed fine.  The rear progressives are 13 inch, 1/2 longer than stock. Should have moved my weight forward a tiny bit. I've tried laying on the tank... still wobble.

Head stock bearings seem ok. Smooth.

Before the head and shocks, never felt a wobble at 80. Something changed.

Next: rear tire and alignment. Adjust chain tension... then try again. I read about GHG's issue of rear fender and the plastic mud flap gap thingy... I'll have a look at that as well.

@ 2cv: can't wait to hear what you've done!  Takes me a year to learn from you before I try it myself ;)

Happy Canada Day and Indepence Day!
Suppose I were an idiot, and suppose I were a member of Congress; but I repeat myself. ... Mark Twain
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longstrokeclassic

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Reply #98 on: July 05, 2017, 08:34:34 am
I picked up a 65mph speed wobble on my AVL Electra saeemingly out of nowhere, the cause was a partially worn OEM rear tyre.
Its replacement, an Avon, was worn right down to the legal limit without any problems. I've fitted Avons on my Enfields ever since.
Never underestimate the value of improved combustion efficiency and reducing parasitic engine and rolling chassis losses.


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Reply #99 on: July 05, 2017, 12:15:32 pm
   Now that he brings it up portisheadric has a good point.
   Possibly because of tread separation on the rear tire due to age/wear.
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ace.cafe

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Reply #100 on: July 05, 2017, 12:37:05 pm
Longer rear shocks can possibly contribute to the problem because they reduce the trail geometry, potentially making more twitchy steering.

I have heard from Tooseevee about his kickstart cure, but I will not say, so that he can do the reveal.
 8)
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heloego

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Reply #101 on: July 06, 2017, 12:03:40 am
C'mon, tooseevee!

Read the card! Read the card!  ;)
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dginfw

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Reply #102 on: July 08, 2017, 04:20:40 am
C'Mon ,  2CV...we're chomping at the bit...
What was it?  resistor plugs? priming kicks flooding it out?
Both of those were issues on my iron barrel. It actually starts better WITHOUT any primer kicks
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High On Octane

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Reply #103 on: July 12, 2017, 03:05:17 am
Have you checked tire pressures?  I developed a 65mph wobble out of no where and turned out the front tire only had 15 psi.
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DanB

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Reply #104 on: August 07, 2017, 06:05:20 am
Another update: 

Finally got the wobble sorted!  Changed back tire (that was a pain in the ass; think I'll pay some one next time. Each tire change incurred an extra tube charge!) and noticed the right size snail cam shifted under load. Longer shocks seems to have push the edge of the cam into the side of the silencer. Long story short... dremel with grinding stone and a cut off wheel sorted it. Got the wheel mostly in alignment and took it out today. 90 mph no wobble... lots of wind noise; twitchy steering at that speed. Very happy at 75 to 80 now. I'm a happy camper!

I can push the revs to about 6200 before she gasps. . Might well do the ton if I lay down flat and can find a place to really open it up!  And little to no vibrations Ace. I mostly enjoy 2 and 3rd gears. Can't help but get on it hard  ;D

Still fine tuning carb... it's been hot then cold then hot again....  very happy with the head/ s cam combo!
Suppose I were an idiot, and suppose I were a member of Congress; but I repeat myself. ... Mark Twain
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Bullet Whisperer

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Reply #105 on: August 07, 2017, 08:49:29 am
Sounds like your machine has woken up pretty well !
 6200 RPM was roughly where I was seeing the 103 mph top speed on that first machine to run with 'S' cams - it had 19 / 38t sprockets, with 18" rear wheel rim fitted.
 I was asked not to modify the head itself in any way, as everything had to be 'bolt on', but those 'S' cams turned night into day, the transformation was so great  ;)
 B.W.


ace.cafe

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Reply #106 on: August 07, 2017, 10:28:42 am
I also think that 6200 rpm in top gear should be over the Ton.  You may be going faster than your speedo is saying.

Sounds like you are really enjoying the bike! That's great!
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Reply #107 on: August 07, 2017, 12:26:22 pm
You could treat your bike to a genuine Smith's 120mph chronometric speedo (correctly calibrated) as a reward...

A.
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DanB

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Reply #108 on: August 09, 2017, 04:50:56 am
Thanks gents!  Gotta say, could not have got here over the last 2 years without you and this forum. Now if I could just figure out how to get a decent video.

Adrian, that's a very good idea!  I'm trying to think what I'll do next (idle hands....) I really haven't done much on controls, instrument and cosmetics  ;D
Suppose I were an idiot, and suppose I were a member of Congress; but I repeat myself. ... Mark Twain
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tooseevee

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Reply #109 on: August 09, 2017, 02:51:56 pm
Thanks gents!  Gotta say, could not have got here over the last 2 years without you and this forum. Now if I could just figure out how to get a decent video.

Adrian, that's a very good idea!  I'm trying to think what I'll do next (idle hands....) I really haven't done much on controls, instrument and cosmetics  ;D

           Isn't it great when these AVLs get set up right and run the way they should ?  :) :)

            I'm so glad it's running so great for you. I've been nowhere near 90, but like you've said; 2nd and 3rd are wonderful and the damn thing revs so smooth and easy it's almost a spiritual experience  ;) ;) >:( :D :D :D :D Nobody with a stock one could ever understand how quick and easy you can get to 60 or 65 and how smoothly they do it. No pain, no strain.
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heloego

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Reply #110 on: August 09, 2017, 03:55:55 pm
+1 to both!  :)

   I didn't upgrade to 535, but simply removing the PAV crap, minor polishing of the exhaust port, and replacing the stock Mikarb CV and exhaust with a Mikuni VM32 and Goldie system made this a whole different animal!
   Had it up to 85mph/136kmh with less than 1/2 throttle and hovering around 4000rpm in 5th.
   85mph is quite fast enough for me, thank you very much, and I'll not be taking even that high for other than VERY brief periods in the future.
   I've put 1000 miles on it since the improvements and couldn't be happier.
   Next Up: Late next week I'll be giving it a good shake down during my trip from Albuquerque to the Denver area and back.
   
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AVL Power!

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Reply #111 on: September 14, 2017, 05:49:57 am
Happy to see yet another "Sorted AVL". 6200 is pretty neat, my ASBO could do 6300 rpm or so in 4th gear so I am sure yours will do 100mph without any issues.

Cheers!


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Reply #112 on: December 04, 2017, 05:19:06 am
Did the ton Dec 3, 1:30 Pm, 101.7 mph  ;D

Glorious day today; about 56 F. Rejetted for cooler weather and it just wanted to go!  Found a secluded spot on the IL/WI border and went for it. The number came from the Waze app with gps tracking. The bike was squirrelly as hell at >85.  Wore a camera... failed to turn it on... figures.

Objective completed. Yah!!!
Suppose I were an idiot, and suppose I were a member of Congress; but I repeat myself. ... Mark Twain
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ace.cafe

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Reply #113 on: December 04, 2017, 11:23:55 am
Did the ton Dec 3, 1:30 Pm, 101.7 mph  ;D

Glorious day today; about 56 F. Rejetted for cooler weather and it just wanted to go!  Found a secluded spot on the IL/WI border and went for it. The number came from the Waze app with gps tracking. The bike was squirrelly as hell at >85.  Wore a camera... failed to turn it on... figures.

Objective completed. Yah!!!

CONGRATS!

"Ton-Up Club"
 8)
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tooseevee

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Reply #114 on: December 04, 2017, 12:39:27 pm
Did the ton Dec 3, 1:30 Pm, 101.7 mph  ;D

Glorious day today; about 56 F. Rejetted for cooler weather and it just wanted to go!  Found a secluded spot on the IL/WI border and went for it. The number came from the Waze app with gps tracking. The bike was squirrelly as hell at >85.  Wore a camera... failed to turn it on... figures.

Objective completed. Yah!!!

             Congratulations. Was it scary  ??? I'm jealous (sort of). I'd love to know what my '08 would do, but have no desire to do it myself (especially not with the original tires). Mine does 55 or 60 now so quickly and easily and smoothly and cruises so well at that and all speeds that at almost 80 and after years  of experimenting, modifying and tuning since 2014 I am a totally happy boy Enfieldwise.

            The last time I did 100 was in 2001 in my 1970 DS-21 Pallas on my way to the World Meeting. That car was better (many custom modifications and improvements) than when it left the factory and felt actually no different at 100 than it did at 60. It was my 5th and last DS.

            I'm proud of you, buddy, and wish we were closer geographywise.
« Last Edit: December 04, 2017, 12:43:54 pm by tooseevee »
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Reply #115 on: December 04, 2017, 01:19:00 pm
Did the ton Dec 3, 1:30 Pm, 101.7 mph  ;D

Glorious day today; about 56 F. Rejetted for cooler weather and it just wanted to go!  Found a secluded spot on the IL/WI border and went for it. The number came from the Waze app with gps tracking. The bike was squirrelly as hell at >85.  Wore a camera... failed to turn it on... figures.

Objective completed. Yah!!!

WooHoo!  That's awesome Dan!  I'm sitting here trying to picture what road you were on.  I grew up in the state line area and lived there about 30 years.  Definitely plenty of places for The Ton in that area.  One of the first roads I hit The Ton on a bike was on on Milton-Shopeire Road just outside of Janesville.
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Adrian II

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Reply #116 on: December 05, 2017, 11:08:32 pm
Good work, Dan.  ;D  8)

A.
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heloego

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Reply #117 on: December 07, 2017, 01:49:47 pm
Good on ya, Dan!  8)
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Reply #118 on: December 11, 2017, 12:37:11 am
Nicely done DanB. I love this thread - it's really got everything...


DanB

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Reply #119 on: December 11, 2017, 04:55:53 am
Thanks all!  This forum and the guidance of all master minds was how this was done.

Yeah, I wish we could ride out 2CV as well. You are an inspiration.
« Last Edit: December 11, 2017, 05:04:47 am by DanB »
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mattjohnson207

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Reply #120 on: February 12, 2018, 07:42:32 pm
I have a NOS CI bottom  electric start bottom end.    What do I need to do to make an AVL hybrid  of my. '09. AVL?   Is required machining difficult for a non Enfeild knowledgeable machinist?


1 Thump

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Reply #121 on: February 13, 2018, 05:41:08 pm
I have a NOS CI bottom  electric start bottom end.    What do I need to do to make an AVL hybrid  of my. '09. AVL?   Is required machining difficult for a non Enfeild knowledgeable machinist?

Why go the extra length to make an AVL hybrid when you could easily Ace-Clubman the iron barrel head?


DanB

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Reply #122 on: February 13, 2018, 10:05:23 pm
Didn’t Adrian and BW do something like this?
Suppose I were an idiot, and suppose I were a member of Congress; but I repeat myself. ... Mark Twain
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ace.cafe

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Reply #123 on: February 14, 2018, 02:50:05 pm
Yes, Adrian and BW would be the ones to consult regarding the hybrid.

That said,  the Iron Barrel Bullet head can do the job with less work overall.
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Adrian II

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Reply #124 on: February 14, 2018, 09:56:32 pm
+1 to Ace's idea of a proper C.I. motor in fireball trim, tuning is easier with a far better range of performance parts easily available...

HOWEVER, being a 500 AVL fan I don't see why you can't have a hybrid engine, and as this topic shows, a well-sorted AVL engine is a fine bit of kit.

My original 500 AVL hybrid engine was built by Henry Price in the UK and later modded by Bullet Whisperer. It uses a set of older C.I. 350 crankcases which needed quite a bit of modification. A set of late 500 C.I. cases would be much easier to adapt.

The cylinder stud centers will be the same, ideally late cases will be threaded for metric cylinder studs which is what the AVL engines use. If your cases have CEI 5/16" studs you will need custom cylinder studs or some 8mm helicoil inserts for the AVL version.

The AVL crank will fit straight in, though a new set of quality main bearings would be a very good idea.

The oil feed on the scavenge side is different from the C.I. models, one oil way is in a different position in the crankcase, but very late C.I. models have the "blob" of alloy in the right place which can be drilled out to match the AVL timing cover. The hole in the old position can be plugged, ideally drilled and tapped for a 5mm grub screw so it can be re-used in C.I. configuration at a later date. I also found mine needed the slightly undersize oil pump worm to prevent premature oil-pump spindle wear. These are the version with the bonded-in rubber seal, which needs to be removed to allow it to fit over the AVL crank's oil feed.

The AVL timing cover does need some work to make it fit. The cam spindle housings need reaming out from 15mm to 5/8" (15.88mm) for the fixed C.I. cam spindles. The bosses for the 1/2" idler cam spindles aren't fully machined, one isn't bored out at all, and both need milling to set the end float for the idler gears, assuming you're keeping the C.I. contact breaker drive (or fitting a magneto...).

The 500 AVL crankshaft has a different style of alternator which will need a set of Electra-X or 500 AVL Classic primary transmission cases. These will bolt straight onto the E/S crankcases. If you don't want to use the C.I. ignition and all the timing gears you can use the crankshaft-triggered TCI version from the Electra-X or AVL Classic. If your crankcases are for a right-foot shift model you can only use a 5 speed box with the right-foot shift conversion, and there will be two holes for the left-foot gear shift to plug.

Using the C.I. cam followers/tappets is actually a good idea, they're tougher than the AVL (re)design, but you will have to play with the push-rod configuration to match the AVL rockers to C.I. cam followers.

Hmm, are you still there, Matt? Are you still interested?  ;D

I think that's all the main items, but I might still have forgotten a few odds and ends.  ;)



A.

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mattjohnson207

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Reply #125 on: February 15, 2018, 02:01:34 am
Thanks Adrian...now I've decided how to proceed with my build...ill stick with my Ace  AVL fireball project that has been on the back burner due to work...truck driver,  never home.
 Which leaves me with a NOs bullet bottom end, lol.  Perhaps a future fireball extra engine.  Thanks again


Adrian II

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Reply #126 on: February 15, 2018, 09:46:44 pm
Getting Ace to fireball your AVL will do the job nicely, though I would still recommend the swap to the C.I. Bullet cam followers/tappets.

Look after that C.I. bottom end, they aren't making 'em any more...

A.
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mattjohnson207

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Reply #127 on: February 20, 2018, 11:33:33 pm
Planned!