Author Topic: Royal Enfield 600cc Twin?  (Read 28946 times)

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2014BulletC5

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on: May 31, 2016, 03:51:39 pm
Rumors have been going around on this for awhile but it looks like we might actually be seeing some "unofficial" confirmation:

https://www.motorbeam.com/2016/03/bikes/royal-enfield-bikes/new-royal-enfield-600cc-bike-launch-in-2017/

http://www.shifting-gears.com/2016/03/28/600cc-royal-enfield-launching-in-2017/
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rtillery02

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Reply #1 on: May 31, 2016, 04:59:56 pm
That'd be nice, hope it's a parallel twin with pushrods, not a v-twin with a timing chain. Maybe it'll have a 360 deg crank & not a 270...but hey, whatever it turns out to be, I'll be looking @ it close with hopes of having one, carb OR fuel injected.
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Reply #2 on: May 31, 2016, 05:26:52 pm
Don't get too high expectations.
RE isn't known to make much power.

Just because it's a twin doesn't mean it can do what every one wants it to do..
« Last Edit: May 31, 2016, 05:30:34 pm by ace.cafe »
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Reply #3 on: May 31, 2016, 06:14:00 pm
Don't get too high expectations.
RE isn't known to make much power.

Just because it's a twin doesn't mean it can do what every one wants it to do..

Well hopefully taking the development process away from India and to the UK, where the words motorcycle and performance are not mutually exclusive, that historic stigma will be broken, or at least bent.

I just hope whatever it is won't just get bolted into an existing chassis, but given a fresh design.

After all, it's not just named Harris, but Harris Performance.
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2014BulletC5

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Reply #4 on: May 31, 2016, 08:29:54 pm
Well hopefully taking the development process away from India and to the UK, where the words motorcycle and performance are not mutually exclusive, that historic stigma will be broken, or at least bent.

I just hope whatever it is won't just get bolted into an existing chassis, but given a fresh design.

After all, it's not just named Harris, but Harris Performance.

Wasn't HP the design force behind the CGT?  I'm assuming whatever this little twin is it'll be used in a modified CGT frame.

Hopefully they won't stray too far from the classic Bullet look...
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ace.cafe

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Reply #5 on: May 31, 2016, 08:43:37 pm
Harris does frames and rolling chassis work.

I expect that the new twin will bolt into the existing frame(s). I have read in some article that the buyer will be able to buy the bike with his selection of engine, twin or single.

Especially with a twin at 600 or 650cc, it is entirely possible that the 535 single will be faster than the twin.
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Otto_Ing

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Reply #6 on: May 31, 2016, 09:00:05 pm
I make an bold bet that they come out first with a 610cc single OHC engine.

If they do a twin with 2 of those Himalayan cylinders and 610cc, then we are looking at something like 36hp...at the crank.


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Reply #7 on: June 01, 2016, 01:05:31 am
A direct quote from the motorbeam article:

Quote
One of the most aggressive brands in the two-wheeler arena currently is Royal Enfield. Riding on the growing sales and improving perception of people towards their motorcycles, the Chennai based automaker is planning the next big move.

So, RE is an automaker now?  :-X


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Reply #8 on: June 01, 2016, 01:53:31 am
Somehow automobile is synonymous with motorcycle in India.  Maybe only in certain contexts, but I've seen it alot.

BTW, my dealer (yes, a Triumph dealer selling RE) swears the twin is a 750 FWIW.
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Reply #9 on: June 01, 2016, 02:47:46 am
 In addition to the brains at Harris performance RE headhunted Pierre Terblance formerly of Ducatti, James Young and Simon Warburton from Triumph, Mark Wells and Ian Wride from Xenphyia.

 That is a lot of talent under one roof.
 
 In standard trim the parallel twin may be tuned down to a predetermined performance level for insurance or emissions reasons. It shouldn't take too much to undo any stifling done to appease the regulatory bureaucrats.
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Reply #10 on: June 01, 2016, 10:41:48 am
Somehow automobile is synonymous with motorcycle in India.  Maybe only in certain contexts, but I've seen it alot.

Well, there you go then...


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Reply #11 on: June 01, 2016, 03:32:53 pm
Well hopefully taking the development process away from India and to the UK, where the words motorcycle and performance are not mutually exclusive, that historic stigma will be broken, or at least bent.

I just hope whatever it is won't just get bolted into an existing chassis, but given a fresh design.

After all, it's not just named Harris, but Harris Performance.

I hope they bolt a 650 twin into the GT chassis.  I think the chassis would be a perfect fit. I bet there will be overhead cams though.


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Reply #13 on: June 11, 2016, 02:37:49 am
It looks a lot like a Royal Enfield Thunderbird.

Unfortunately it is using the single downtube frame rather than the new CGT frame.

I also have to wonder if 600cc is going to do the job?

RE has a history of making less horsepower than most modern motorcycles get out of their engines and in the USA on the open roads, horsepower is needed.

I'm not talking about 70 horsepower out of a 600cc engine but at least 55 would be required to cruise along with the cages at 75-80 mph on the interstates.

These 250 hp cages don't slow down on the uphill sections of the roads here so the engine has to have some extra power for these conditions.

On a positive note, I do like vertical twins like the one in the picture shows. :)
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Reply #14 on: June 11, 2016, 06:05:34 am
 Artists rendering.
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Richard230

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Reply #15 on: June 11, 2016, 02:33:51 pm
Speaking of horsepower, it seems like the latest emission and noise regulations are really cutting into the power of many motorcycle models.  As an example: the new 900cc Triumph Bonneville now only makes 52 HP, while the 950cc Yamaha (used to be Star, but that brand is now gone) V-twin series makes just under 50 HP. I believe that the new Moto Guzzi 900cc models make about the same. So how much power do you think a new RE 600cc twin is going to make after it is tuned to meet Euro 4 and the like?  Not much is my guess.  While that might be fine for riding in India, it is not going to cut it for U.S. and European customers who want to do battle on the freeways of the world.

And just where did RE get that idea for an exhaust pipe kink in front of the muffler?  :o I hope a design like that doesn't go into production. It took Triumph years of heavy enthusiast bashing before they finally straightened out the exhaust pipes on the latest 2016 Bonneville models.
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Reply #16 on: June 11, 2016, 05:17:57 pm
At least the new Triumph 900cc produces some solid torque numbers. It isn't a speed demon but it should pull well uphill, etc.
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Reply #17 on: June 11, 2016, 06:16:04 pm
Low revving engines make relatively low power for displacement because of a low rpm multiplier.
hp = tq x rpm/ 5252
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Reply #18 on: June 12, 2016, 12:22:44 am
Artists rendering.
Here's another.
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Reply #19 on: June 12, 2016, 05:23:34 am
Ah Ha!
It seems to have inherited a KTM frame now.

What won't they think of next? :)
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Reply #20 on: June 12, 2016, 11:19:55 am
At least the new Triumph 900cc produces some solid torque numbers. It isn't a speed demon but it should pull well uphill, etc.

With an estimated top speed of 110 mph. Just managing to keep up with its 1959 original. :o
Whenever a U.K. bike mag does a review of the ever increasing engine capacity of new Triumphs, the "it's for the American market" topic gets dropped in. Which would indicate some forward marketing planning, for those who live in the U.S., does it work?
From my point of view, a neat, lithe, sprightly 600 twin would be most appealing, avoiding the anti climax of the Continental GT. I'm not personally criticizing the GT, I like it, but there are always a lot of low mileage examples for sale, and a lot of missed sales for the same reason, the performance doesn't match the looks. I know through the work under progress by forum members I read about on here, that the mismatch between the performance/looks will be overcome, but for some owners (and probably a majority), they just want to buy a bike and ride it, but not one that their mates have to stop every 10 miles or so to allow them to catch up. That is where market research plays a big part, followed by professional after sales customer care/product backup.
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Reply #21 on: June 12, 2016, 08:01:50 pm
I hope they would stop messing about and embrace the history of the brand and give us the Interceptor.
All be it with fuel injection, disc brakes and electric start.
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Reply #22 on: June 13, 2016, 02:27:00 pm
Yeah, uh...I'll have the twin cylinder T'Bird design in a walnut 2-tone shade of brown please,Thank you, & where do I leave my deposit?
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Reply #23 on: June 13, 2016, 02:49:25 pm
If they make an interceptor and they make it with 52-55 horsepower at the crank, then they will have achieved an equal of the vintage specs.
It needs to have that power level to overcome all the excess weight that comes with the twin engine. And, if it ends up being liquid cooled, it will weigh even more, so it will need even more power to equal the older one.

« Last Edit: June 13, 2016, 02:51:52 pm by ace.cafe »
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Reply #24 on: June 13, 2016, 08:32:33 pm
+1 Krusty, an Interceptor with 750cc. :)

Those pictures were scary :o
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Reply #25 on: June 13, 2016, 08:46:38 pm
Let's look at the positive side. RE did an admirable job with the Himalayan, the down side is I can't buy one. I think there's some cloak and dagger stuff going on with the 600 as part of the marketing hype, hopefully we shall be pleasantly surprised.
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Reply #26 on: June 13, 2016, 10:39:30 pm
My source adamantly says 750.  But, only time will tell.

 I can see that some would like a 600, but to me it seems with it being a new twin you need some separation from the 500. 

I love my 500 single, but I would also love a 750 twin to go with it.  Especially an Interceptor!
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Reply #27 on: June 14, 2016, 04:26:22 am
I would buy a 750 Interceptor in a heartbeat. They need to counterbalance it to keep vibration under control like BMW with their twin series. Air cooled is okay, I can live with lower power output and extra weight. I do need a bike that can pull 80 mph uphill on the interstate at 6000 ft altitude. After that, extra power is worthless. ABS, traction control, and tubeless radial tires would be most welcome additions.
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Reply #28 on: June 14, 2016, 07:11:24 am
ABS, traction control, and tubeless radial tires would be most welcome additions.

Crock, for god sake, what makes you want ABS and traction control?
« Last Edit: June 14, 2016, 09:24:04 am by oTTo »


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Reply #29 on: June 14, 2016, 08:12:39 am
ABS would be needed for Euro compliance.
TC would not, and I doubt it would be even needed on a bike of relatively low performance.
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ace.cafe

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Reply #30 on: June 14, 2016, 02:26:38 pm
I wouldn't worry about any of that stuff being on an RE, unless mandated.

Regarding the power/speed requirements from an RE 600 uphill and at altitude, there is no historical data supporting the idea that Chennai is even aware of how to do it, much less produce it.
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Reply #31 on: June 14, 2016, 02:47:21 pm
If it was most motorcycle companies, they would just use two Himalayan cylinders side-by-side. That would certainly cut back on their parts costs and engineering to an extent, plus give the new engine some useful power for first-world customers.   ??? But then RE does seem to like to do things the hard way.   ::)
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Reply #32 on: June 14, 2016, 03:07:29 pm
Yup, guess I'll just contain myself & wait for the inventory to show up at my "not so local" dealership & put in for a test ride to see what's what, right you are, I may be happier with my Bullets & keep them on the road. We'll see.
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Reply #33 on: June 14, 2016, 08:30:32 pm
Perhaps history is about to be made.  :o
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Reply #34 on: June 14, 2016, 10:39:25 pm
So, that must have been sarcasm about "Chennai", and their lack of know how, or do the countless videos of Indian Royal Enfields crossing the Himalayas not count?
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ace.cafe

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Reply #35 on: June 15, 2016, 12:26:43 am
So, that must have been sarcasm about "Chennai", and their lack of know how, or do the countless videos of Indian Royal Enfields crossing the Himalayas not count?
No sarcasm intended.
They don't go up the steep grade at 80 mph at high altitude like Crock said he wanted. And I doubt they are going to be able to, if their past performance is any indicator.
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Reply #36 on: June 15, 2016, 03:27:55 am







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mevocgt

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Reply #37 on: June 15, 2016, 01:53:34 pm
That kinda looks like a Suzuki 500 dropped in the GT....


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Reply #38 on: June 15, 2016, 03:19:31 pm
That kinda looks like a Suzuki 500 dropped in the GT....
No power claims or 600cc displacement figures associated with it, either.
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Reply #39 on: June 15, 2016, 03:26:57 pm
See? I kinda like that, gives me some ideas about the "71" Trophy I've got out back with no engine in it...yet.
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Reply #40 on: June 15, 2016, 08:51:55 pm
There are a couple of guys in India - Anand Bhalerao and Dean Fernandes - who had converted Royal Enfield into twins. I wonder if they are doing something with Continental GT ?

In one of the videos, they had a twin engine in what looks like a red cafe racer at an Indian Bike Week Show. Is this a frame of Continental GT - may be not ? I cannot see clearly.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3_lbCrqDuSc

Another video of their work for Bullet twin - along the same lines as Carberry of Australia and later Musket from Ohio.

 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UYGyI-8OrmI   

May be it is the same bike before and after full restoration/conversion :-\!
« Last Edit: June 15, 2016, 09:12:43 pm by singhg5 »
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mevocgt

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Reply #41 on: June 15, 2016, 10:15:20 pm
There are a couple of guys in India - Anand Bhalerao and Dean Fernandes - who had converted Royal Enfield into twins. I wonder if they are doing something with Continental GT ?

In one of the videos, they had a twin engine in what looks like a red cafe racer at an Indian Bike Week Show. Is this a frame of Continental GT - may be not ? I cannot see clearly.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3_lbCrqDuSc

Another video of their work for Bullet twin - along the same lines as Carberry of Australia and later Musket from Ohio.

 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UYGyI-8OrmI   

May be it is the same bike before and after full restoration/conversion :-\!
I think it is a GT Frame.  It sure looks like it to me anyway.  But your right, the photos aren't the most clear...
« Last Edit: June 15, 2016, 10:26:26 pm by MeVoCGT »


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Reply #42 on: June 15, 2016, 10:19:00 pm


In one of the videos, they had a twin engine in what looks like a red cafe racer at an Indian Bike Week Show. Is this a frame of Continental GT - may be not ?

I think this is the same bike at Indian bike week 2013.
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ace.cafe

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Reply #43 on: June 15, 2016, 10:35:00 pm
I think it is a GT Frame.  It sure looks like it to me anyway.  But your right, the photos aren't the most clear...
Stretched Iron Barrel frame with curved front down tube a la Musket 998. AVL top ends, 4 sp gearbox.

Edited:
It could possibly be an AVL Classic donor bike, because it has all the AVL suspension and disc brake too. Frame stretched and modded for the V-twin, and a 4 sp box put in with it.
« Last Edit: June 15, 2016, 11:05:39 pm by ace.cafe »
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Reply #44 on: June 15, 2016, 10:39:16 pm
Ace, I was referring to the photos that Ice posted.  I think I misread Singhg's post.


ace.cafe

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Reply #45 on: June 15, 2016, 10:48:25 pm
Ace, I was referring to the photos that Ice posted.  I think I misread Singhg's post.
Yes, it looks like it might possibly be in a  GT bike.
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Reply #46 on: June 16, 2016, 03:05:14 am
That kinda looks like a Suzuki 500 dropped in the GT....

 Himalayan LS410 for comparison.


  The twin prototype and the production single look like they share parts don't they ?
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Reply #47 on: July 11, 2016, 03:24:09 pm


ace.cafe

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Reply #48 on: July 11, 2016, 03:41:15 pm
Found this from the internet
https://motoroctane.com/news/28188-royal-enfield-331

Interesting.
Existing 500cc and 350cc engines to be discontinued.

650cc twin coming.
Regarding the speculated hp, I suggest waiting until it exists, and then see what it has.
« Last Edit: July 11, 2016, 03:44:30 pm by ace.cafe »
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Reply #49 on: July 11, 2016, 04:54:39 pm
I remember before the GT was officially announced there were talks of 40bhp.


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Reply #50 on: July 11, 2016, 05:12:39 pm
Interesting.
Existing 500cc and 350cc engines to be discontinued.

650cc twin coming.
Regarding the speculated hp, I suggest waiting until it exists, and then see what it has.
Found this from the internet
https://motoroctane.com/news/28188-royal-enfield-331

Would you trust a guy who wrote on an Indian website 3 months ago that has hardly been verified by others ? I do not take many of them as a reliable source of information - unless I know the person who has a proven history and knowledge. There are too many mouths without proper credentials that like to talk on the internet and electronic media.

I will wait to see what RE has to offer or listen to someone who has worked inside the organization.
« Last Edit: July 11, 2016, 08:19:32 pm by singhg5 »
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mevocgt

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Reply #51 on: July 11, 2016, 10:18:54 pm
Interesting.
Existing 500cc and 350cc engines to be discontinued.
I saw something about no more 250cc, but I missed the 500 and 350cc discontinue comment from this link...


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Reply #52 on: July 12, 2016, 01:31:59 am
IMO, the 350 is Royal Enfields bread and butter.

The idea they would stop making the 350 Bullets and Thunderbird is quite absurd. 
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Reply #53 on: July 12, 2016, 11:52:44 am
IMO, the 350 is Royal Enfields bread and butter.

The idea they would stop making the 350 Bullets and Thunderbird is quite absurd.

This is where I read it.
https://motoroctane.com/news/13368-royal-enfield-will-replace-350cc-and-500cc-for-emissions-exclusive

I don't vouch for its accuracy.
It's just where I saw it.
 :)
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Reply #54 on: July 12, 2016, 12:59:12 pm
If true they ll loose market share in India big time. What would be the point of getting a Classic with OHC and Oil cooler when you can get a Kawasaki Estrela for more or less the same money and is likely to offer better built quality.


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Reply #55 on: July 12, 2016, 01:03:42 pm
Since when has interest in any recent RE model ever been about quality?  ;)


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Reply #56 on: July 12, 2016, 01:12:47 pm
Since when has interest in any recent RE model ever been about quality?  ;)

The selling point in India of the 350 is its simplicity, robustness and ease (no special skill need) of maintainance. And the fact that you find on every corner a mechanic who has some sort of RE experience.

If this is not applicable anymore, I would assume that most potential customers would go with a bike which would not need too much of maintainance. The brand's name should hold up the sales for some time of course.

JMO
« Last Edit: July 12, 2016, 01:26:01 pm by oTTo »


mevocgt

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Reply #57 on: July 12, 2016, 02:45:15 pm
This is where I read it.
https://motoroctane.com/news/13368-royal-enfield-will-replace-350cc-and-500cc-for-emissions-exclusive

I don't vouch for its accuracy.
It's just where I saw it.
 :)
Ya, I wouldn't vouch for it either.  But was interested in the context of the article.  The article Finbullet put up was publish after this one.  Same auther. 

Will the Bullet be able to maintain it's appeal as a "heritage bike" for the Indian market that seems to continuously modernize?  No christall ball here, but sure will be watching...


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Reply #58 on: July 12, 2016, 02:57:22 pm
FWIW, I don't believe for one second that RE would cancel production of the 350 or 500, or any of their currently produced models. 

I think they are right where they want to be and will only add to their product line.
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Reply #59 on: July 12, 2016, 03:04:43 pm
FWIW, I don't believe for one second that RE would cancel production of the 350 or 500, or any of their currently produced models. 

I think they are right where they want to be and will only add to their product line.

Unless they are forced to go to water-cooling by government emission regulations.  :o It could happen.   ???
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Reply #60 on: July 12, 2016, 03:07:52 pm
The selling point in India of the 350 is its simplicity, robustness and ease (no special skill need) of maintainance. And the fact that you find on every corner a mechanic who has some sort of RE experience.

If this is not applicable anymore, I would assume that most potential customers would go with a bike which would not need too much of maintainance. The brand's name should hold up the sales for some time of course.

JMO

This is interesting to me...

I've heard statements that the UCE has basically carried nothing over from the old iron barrel engines - yet the "experienced mechanic on every corner" idea has persisted.

Are the UCE,  AVL and IB engines so similar that the mechanics could deal with them all, but whatever they replace them with won't be manageable in the same way?


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Reply #61 on: July 12, 2016, 03:21:27 pm
Unless they are forced to go to water-cooling by government emission regulations.  :o It could happen.   ???

Just as likely as the Indian people becoming the largest beef consumers in the world.
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Reply #62 on: July 12, 2016, 03:32:43 pm
This is interesting to me...

I've heard statements that the UCE has basically carried nothing over from the old iron barrel engines - yet the "experienced mechanic on every corner" idea has persisted.

Are the UCE,  AVL and IB engines so similar that the mechanics could deal with them all, but whatever they replace them with won't be manageable in the same way?
Most parts are different, but certain similarities exist in those single models. And for carburetor versions, they are still relatively simple to work on. The IB is still the easiest to work on with minimal technology.

I don't know where they plan to go with their models. All I know is that the various things I see and read are confusing.  Hopefully the final products and services will turn out better than the speculation and rumors say.
« Last Edit: July 12, 2016, 04:12:10 pm by ace.cafe »
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Reply #63 on: July 12, 2016, 06:58:39 pm
This is interesting to me...

I've heard statements that the UCE has basically carried nothing over from the old iron barrel engines - yet the "experienced mechanic on every corner" idea has persisted.

Are the UCE,  AVL and IB engines so similar that the mechanics could deal with them all, but whatever they replace them with won't be manageable in the same way?

...I don't know, India is different world at present. It would be interesting to see what happens with a KTM 390 after it has been serviced a couple of time by a street mechanic. I suppose if they introduce improvements gradually it could work. But what is a improvment?
« Last Edit: July 12, 2016, 07:54:57 pm by oTTo »


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Reply #64 on: July 12, 2016, 10:32:33 pm
Just as likely as the Indian people becoming the largest beef consumers in the world.

Wasn't there an article recently that said that RE couldn't sell the Himalayan in certain large Indian cities because it couldn't meet their local emission regulations? I am pretty sure that India will be dragged into the emissions world order in the near future, especially when other manufacturers (such as the Europeans and Japanese) start producing motorcycles in India that conform to first-world emission standards.
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Reply #65 on: July 13, 2016, 03:58:45 am
This is interesting to me...

I've heard statements that the UCE has basically carried nothing over from the old iron barrel engines - yet the "experienced mechanic on every corner" idea has persisted.

Are the UCE,  AVL and IB engines so similar that the mechanics could deal with them all, but whatever they replace them with won't be manageable in the same way?

 Matt I'm sure you know this but it's worth telling for the good of the order. I have found our Iron Barrel Military and our UCE G5 to have more in common than I was expecting at first. Handle bar controls, Casqette and fork uppers are the same. ( uppers have changed in recent times) The fork lowers can be swapped back and forth provided the disc or drum brakes stay with their matching lowers. Rims are the same. Front engine mount plates are the same. The fuel tanks will fit in each others places. With the right plumbing (EFI vs carb) they would work.
 The UCE oil pump and lifter unique to it but the crank and alternator ignition pick ups are glorified carryovers from the AVL Electra. (The AVL's piston installed in the UCE gives a slight raise in compression ) The block mounted rockers of the UCE are patterned after the Iron Barrel.  The 5 Speed transmission is essentially the same as the Iron Barrel save for in the UCE the two shafts are stacked one atop the other instead of laid fore and aft. The rear hub wheel and brakes are the same as the Iron Barrel but installed for opposite side drive. Fenders and tools boxes are the same for Electra X and G5/E5. Seats and supports are the same too. The seats for the Iron Barrel Electra G5, B5, E5 are the same. B5 tins and fender supports are a virtual drop on for my Military. Many seals and O rings carry over. FWIW the kick start return spring of the 5 Speed gearbox is the same as used in the 4 Speeds of Redditch singles and interceptors.
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Reply #66 on: July 13, 2016, 04:04:14 am
Wasn't there an article recently that said that RE couldn't sell the Himalayan in certain large Indian cities because it couldn't meet their local emission regulations? I am pretty sure that India will be dragged into the emissions world order in the near future, especially when other manufacturers (such as the Europeans and Japanese) start producing motorcycles in India that conform to first-world emission standards.

  Baharat Stage 3 equates to Euro 3 for the most part.   
 
 The temporary sales ban back in April in the City of New Delhi raised a few eyebrows because the Himalayan was launched before the BS4 applicability date.

http://www.ibtimes.co.in/royal-enfield-himalayan-will-not-be-available-buy-delhi-670971

 It didn't take long to resolve the issue.

http://www.news18.com/news/auto/royal-enfield-himalayan-goes-on-sale-in-new-delhi-1222987.html


 * that it runs BS3 ( analogous to Euro3 ) clean with a carb and no cat is a testament IMHO to the design.  Injected and cat-ed is would in theory be a shoe in for Euro4.
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Reply #67 on: July 13, 2016, 02:50:11 pm
Excellent information as always, Ice!

My view is a bit more simplistic.  I just would like to say that Royal Enfield would find  way to adapt the single in any way necessary, rather than cancel it. 

The only other bike I know is my T-100, but Triumph made the Hinkley work for new emission standards and I would think RE would do the same if needed.
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Reply #68 on: July 13, 2016, 03:16:58 pm
Excellent information as always, Ice!

My view is a bit more simplistic.  I just would like to say that Royal Enfield would find  way to adapt the single in any way necessary, rather than cancel it. 

The only other bike I know is my T-100, but Triumph made the Hinkley work for new emission standards and I would think RE would do the same if needed.

However, Triumph completely redesigned the Bonneville range and I don't think any parts are carried over from the old model.  The new ones may look much the same but they are water-cooled. The Street Twin makes about 12 hp less than your T-100 with its larger 900cc engine, while the new Bonneville is also now water-cooled, has been enlarged 1200 cc, and it only makes slightly more peak power than the old 865cc versions.  All this just to meet Euro 4.   :o  So I don't see Euro 4 being kind to Royal Enfield, especially any air-cooled models.  ???
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Reply #69 on: July 13, 2016, 11:44:32 pm
Matt I'm sure you know this but it's worth telling for the good of the order. I have found our Iron Barrel Military and our UCE G5 to have more in common than I was expecting at first. Handle bar controls, Casqette and fork uppers are the same. ( uppers have changed in recent times) The fork lowers can be swapped back and forth provided the disc or drum brakes stay with their matching lowers. Rims are the same. Front engine mount plates are the same. The fuel tanks will fit in each others places. With the right plumbing (EFI vs carb) they would work.
 The UCE oil pump and lifter unique to it but the crank and alternator ignition pick ups are glorified carryovers from the AVL Electra. (The AVL's piston installed in the UCE gives a slight raise in compression ) The block mounted rockers of the UCE are patterned after the Iron Barrel.  The 5 Speed transmission is essentially the same as the Iron Barrel save for in the UCE the two shafts are stacked one atop the other instead of laid fore and aft. The rear hub wheel and brakes are the same as the Iron Barrel but installed for opposite side drive. Fenders and tools boxes are the same for Electra X and G5/E5. Seats and supports are the same too. The seats for the Iron Barrel Electra G5, B5, E5 are the same. B5 tins and fender supports are a virtual drop on for my Military. Many seals and O rings carry over. FWIW the kick start return spring of the 5 Speed gearbox is the same as used in the 4 Speeds of Redditch singles and interceptors.

Hey Ice -

I was thinking of engine and transmission, not frame and body parts, when I made that statement, but I see your point.  I've never owned an Iron Barrel, so I wouldn't know about them.

A couple finer points to ponder:

The UCE fuel tank design has changed.  Current models have done away with the front mounting bolt;  I don't know if they're interchangeable, but something tells me not.  I could be wrong, of course, which would be no surprise.

The seats you listed may all fit interchangeably, but they're definitely not the same - The B5 has a much harder seat and a more pronounced "hump" in the middle.

ps: did you get my email?


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« Last Edit: July 15, 2016, 04:02:14 am by dukearcher »


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Reply #71 on: July 15, 2016, 04:46:11 am
Finally a real photo

http://www.motorcyclenews.com/news/new-bikes/2016/july/world-exclusive-royal-enfields-secret-750/

Incredible ! Good going.

Is that fuel filter sticking out of crankcase bottom, facing forward between two down tubes ? 

Could it take 2 more years before its delivery in 2018 (?) as mentioned in the article ? That seems way too long if they are so close to its development.
« Last Edit: July 15, 2016, 04:52:55 am by singhg5 »
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Reply #72 on: July 15, 2016, 04:56:28 am
Incredible ! Good going.

Is that fuel filter sticking out of crankcase bottom, facing forward between two down tubes ? 

Could it take 2 more years before its delivery in 2018 (?) as mentioned in the article ? That seems way too long if they are so close to its development.

That's the oil filter between the down tubes. I expect that some may criticize that place for the oil filter, being exactly where a rock could come up off the front wheel  and hit the thin wall of a spin-on filter. But, maybe it will be fine.

So, it is the square-finned one that was previously shown. I personally think it looks okay, but I may be in the minority judging by comments posted by others here.

I suppose that eventually we will get some reliable information  about its capabilities.  They seem to say it will have good low rpm torque, which might be indicated by that mile-long exhaust system. :)
« Last Edit: July 15, 2016, 05:06:15 am by ace.cafe »
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Reply #73 on: July 15, 2016, 05:00:20 am
I think it is most likely Royal Enfield's first spin on oil filter that's sticking out of the front of the crankcase.
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Reply #74 on: July 15, 2016, 05:19:56 am
OMG :o :o :o

Is that also a radiator up front or an oil cooler?
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Reply #75 on: July 15, 2016, 05:21:36 am
Engine looks like a 1970's Honda to my eye.
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Reply #76 on: July 15, 2016, 05:31:12 am
Engine looks like a 1970's Honda to my eye.
I had the same impression.
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Reply #77 on: July 15, 2016, 08:02:00 am
Incredible ! Good going.

Is that fuel filter sticking out of crankcase bottom, facing forward between two down tubes ? 

Could it take 2 more years before its delivery in 2018 (?) as mentioned in the article ? That seems way too long if they are so close to its development.

After building some initial samples they have to:

- adjust design for volume production
- develop suppliers and logistic network
- build an assembly line or adjust an existing one
- test and validate
- adjust design acc to the results of testing
- test again
- validate the assembly line
- test again

all this takes much more people, resources and invest to do than to come up with the first samples which is why it takes a very long time. Than almost certainly something does not work out as planed and couple of loops in the validation process are necessary.

Personally, I do not like the looks of it too much (compared to the new Triumph/Nortons) - but that comes down to personal preference. Hope the market likes it though.
« Last Edit: July 15, 2016, 08:24:39 am by oTTo »


ace.cafe

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Reply #78 on: July 15, 2016, 11:40:01 am
OMG :o :o :o

Is that also a radiator up front or an oil cooler?
Oil cooling radiator.
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Reply #79 on: July 15, 2016, 12:37:18 pm
Looks kinda like a Zingshon.
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Reply #80 on: July 15, 2016, 12:44:02 pm
Good to see something at last.
One puzzling thing though. Is this Andy Downes at MCN up to his usual journalistic standards.
Quote
The bike is the first all-new engine to come from Royal Enfield in decades

Or is the Himalayan motor an ancient apparition?
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Reply #81 on: July 15, 2016, 01:05:29 pm
Considering how close the Himalayan hack was to what the production unit is...I was hoping for a roadster. Even as mild as the CGT is, the riding position is starting to get to me and I don't think I'd be interested in a near duplicate.

Now the Triumph T120 on the other hand...
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Reply #82 on: July 15, 2016, 02:34:44 pm
Engine looks like a 1970's Honda to my eye.
Not as pretty...????


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Reply #83 on: July 15, 2016, 02:38:40 pm




Personally, I do not like the looks of it too much (compared to the new Triumph/Nortons) - but that comes down to personal preference. Hope the market likes it though.

Ya, but throw that full fairing kit on there, and it will be the prettiest gal at the ball... ;)


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Reply #84 on: July 15, 2016, 02:44:06 pm
Considering how close the Himalayan hack was to what the production unit is...I was hoping for a roadster. Even as mild as the CGT is, the riding position is starting to get to me and I don't think I'd be interested in a near duplicate.

Now the Triumph T120 on the other hand...
Ok, that's the second time you have used the term roadster in reference to motorcycles(that I've seen anyway).  I'm not familiar with the term's application to motorcycles.  What would be an example I can go look up and at?  Or is it what us 'youngins' would call a standard bike?


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Reply #85 on: July 15, 2016, 02:44:47 pm
I hear the introductory color will be mocha latte'.
 ;D
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Reply #86 on: July 15, 2016, 02:46:54 pm
Considering how close the Himalayan hack was to what the production unit is...I was hoping for a roadster. Even as mild as the CGT is, the riding position is starting to get to me and I don't think I'd be interested in a near duplicate.

Now the Triumph T120 on the other hand...


I've measured up the GT to make more forward set footpegs/cotrols which I would manufacture myself. Including a new dual saddle, bar clamp adapters, handlebars new cables etc it would cost me in the region of. £400/$532. The most expensive part being the saddle at £192(Inc UK tax) or £160/$202 without the tax. I've no plans at the moment, but should a GT come along at the right money I'll consider it.
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Reply #87 on: July 15, 2016, 03:01:50 pm
OMG :o :o :o

Is that also a radiator up front or an oil cooler?

That looks like the oil cooler that was stolen from my 2005 Triumph T-100.   ;)  The new RE twin sure looks air-cooled to me.  That spin-on oil filter location seems to be very popular with motorcycle engine manufacturers. My BMW F650GS and Yamaha FZ1 both have oil filters at that location.  So far no problems.  But if I rode off road much, I would definitely invest in a bash plate to protect the front and bottom of the engine.  I wouldn't be too surprised to see the Indian production version come with a bash plate as standard equipment.
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Reply #88 on: July 15, 2016, 08:19:45 pm
Ok, that's the second time you have used the term roadster in reference to motorcycles(that I've seen anyway).  I'm not familiar with the term's application to motorcycles.  What would be an example I can go look up and at?  Or is it what us 'youngins' would call a standard bike?

Sorry. I refer to a roadster as being performance based, with old man ergos. My GT is giving my beat up knees fits (too many years pushing big gears on bicycles).

Not a cruiser. Not a sport bike.

Good power and chassis.
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Reply #89 on: July 15, 2016, 08:23:39 pm


I've measured up the GT to make more forward set footpegs/cotrols which I would manufacture myself. Including a new dual saddle, bar clamp adapters, handlebars new cables etc it would cost me in the region of. £400/$532. The most expensive part being the saddle at £192(Inc UK tax) or £160/$202 without the tax. I've no plans at the moment, but should a GT come along at the right money I'll consider it.

The issue with that is in shortening the fork tubes to fit in a way to allow the normal fitting of handlebars. Hitchcock's solution leaves a lot to be desired, in terms of esthetics.
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Reply #90 on: July 15, 2016, 10:39:51 pm
The issue with that is in shortening the fork tubes to fit in a way to allow the normal fitting of handlebars. Hitchcock's solution leaves a lot to be desired, in terms of esthetics.

I was looking at strengthening the top yoke and tig welding modified/shortened risers in place.
« Last Edit: July 15, 2016, 11:09:22 pm by malky »
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Reply #91 on: July 16, 2016, 12:43:15 am
   IMHO the oil filter location is basically OK. Anyone who has had to open up a spin-on filter knows that metal housing is tough as hell! At least on all the ones I've had to open and inspect. They all required a tough as nails special cutter (expensive) to get them open.
   Any rock thrown by the wheel shouldn't be an issue. It's the ones NOT small enough to be thrown by the wheel but slam into the front that one should worry about  ;) . THey'll do a lot more than damage the spin on.  >:(
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Narada

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Reply #92 on: July 16, 2016, 01:14:36 am
Could the oil filter location have been chosen to help in cooling the oil?
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Ice

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Reply #93 on: July 16, 2016, 03:44:46 am
 It's nice to see pics of the test mule in public. They confirm that the P twin is indeed real and authenticate the previous spy photos of it.  They also confirm  media reports from as far back as January 2011 of it's development.

 The longing is now intensified by a notch or two on the want factor scale.

 Looking at the all the available photo's I wonder if the oil filter location was dictated rather than chosen due to lack of space elsewhere to put it.
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