[Williamsburg]

Hello all, I've fitted  this Minda switch that sits in the cassette where now you find the ignition on younger bikes and I was curious to know why I can only get current to 3 of the connections despite that there is 7. My bike isn't particularly old, 1976, but I've moved the ignition to the side of the left hand tool box, and installed the light switch in its place, connecting all the wires to either the hi or lo or both position, with the yellow wire from the alternator (4 wire alternator) going to the longer connector which receives the power from the battery together with the yellow/red of the ammeter, and the yellow/red from the AC regulator going to both the hi and lo connectors or vice versa, I can't remember at the moment. any help would be greatly appreciated,  thanks.
Will

[Bilgemaster]

I cannot say if it has any relevance to your older 350, its present wiring or the switch you describe, but my 2005 500's headlamp only lights up when the engine is running. I think it may take it's power directly from the alternator through some sort of regulator. I have (thankfully) never had to really examine the setup, but wouldn't it mean no power at the headlamp switch unless the alternator were spinning?

[grumbern]

Those are two completely different wiring systems. If your 350 is from 1976, it should already have the ignition lock on the side and the light switch in the casquette. The switch will only work correctly with the three wire alternator and is allso used to regulate the power from there. You can view the wiring diagram here:

http://www.indianriders.co.uk/images/Brave%20Wiring/Brave%20Wiring.jpg

This is actually from a brave, but no big difference to "newer" Bullets from the 70s.
As you can see, the switch is a main part of the regulation system and therefor a bit more complex than just on/off
Andreas

[Adrian II]

The 4 wire alternator electrical system uses a switch cluster on the left hand handlebar for both AC and DC feeds, I would strongly suggest you get one of these and wire it for 12V according to the '99-on cast iron models.

[img]https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/J4AAAOSw4WdebIF6/s-l1600.jpg/img]

Ebay item 274306278870, you might have to wait a while to order one.

You can then have the Minda rotary switch in the headlamp purely for cosmetic purposes.

A.

[Williamsburg]

Thanks to you all, I've just seen the replies, well at least it can turn on the lights, I'll need a day or two to study the 3 wire alternator plan, thanks for that. as an aside, am I right in thinking that the small a.c. regulator is just for the headlamp, and the larger rectifier/regulator for the rest of the electrics , and would it make any sense if I connected the yellow from the alternator into the smaller ac regulator. keep in mind, I haven't got much of a clue of what I'm doing.
Will

[Williamsburg]

I cannot say if it has any relevance to your older 350, its present wiring or the switch you describe, but my 2005 500's headlamp only lights up when the engine is running. I think it may take it's power directly from the alternator through some sort of regulator. I have (thankfully) never had to really examine the setup, but wouldn't it mean no power at the headlamp switch unless the alternator were spinning?

I believe this set up regarding the light on/ engine running, was brought about to satisfy U.S. laws. Somewhere on this forum  I found the wiring diagram for the 4 wire alternator, which is also to be found in Pete Snidals book, described as North American Market 1999 or later, or something  similar. When I started taking apart the wiring harness  (4 wire alt.) on my bike, I found a company sticker with Machismo printed on it, Anyway, take it easy Bill,
Will

[grumbern]

No, this has nothing to do with regulations. It is a split AC/DC circuit with the headlamp running on AC and the rest on traditional DC from, or with the battery. It's basicly about losses from the rectifier, or maybe give it a little less load and giving the headlamp straight AC instead. This by the way is regulated with a seperate unit and all in all this split system gives way to a lot of errors without any obvious reason, like missfiring, bad power output and such, if the AC comes to find it's way into the DC circuit in any way. Meaning you have to insulate the headlamp and all components attached to the AC circuit from the DC part.

I myself had this setup for some while and wondered about sporadic missfires under load. It got worse and worse and after changing all components on the ignition I found the AC to be the culprit. After switching to a full DC system, no problems have occured again.
Andreas

[Black fingernail]

I have just gone through the trauma of completely re-wiring my bullet with the wrong wiring loom!!! it is for a superstar.
I traced all wiring from the 'India home' and the 'UK' wiring diagrams, both are in Pete Snidals manual, It may pay to fit a modern reg-rec and do away with the ac circuit all together.

[Williamsburg]

No, this has nothing to do with regulations. It is a split AC/DC circuit with the headlamp running on AC and the rest on traditional DC from, or with the battery. It's basicly about losses from the rectifier, or maybe give it a little less load and giving the headlamp straight AC instead. This by the way is regulated with a seperate unit and all in all this split system gives way to a lot of errors without any obvious reason, like missfiring, bad power output and such, if the AC comes to find it's way into the DC circuit in any way. Meaning you have to insulate the headlamp and all components attached to the AC circuit from the DC part.

I myself had this setup for some while and wondered about sporadic missfires under load. It got worse and worse and after changing all components on the ignition I found the AC to be the culprit. After switching to a full DC system, no problems have occured again.
Andreas

Thanks, what about doing away with the yellow and amber wires from the alternator and wire the headlight up differently, thus doing away with the small AC regulator, which is only there for the headlight .I presume

[Williamsburg]

I have just gone through the trauma of completely re-wiring my bullet with the wrong wiring loom!!! it is for a superstar.
I traced all wiring from the 'India home' and the 'UK' wiring diagrams, both are in Pete Snidals manual, It may pay to fit a modern reg-rec and do away with the ac circuit all together.

Thanks, something to work towards, as superior minds have suggested.

[Adrian II]

Thanks, what about doing away with the yellow and amber wires from the alternator and wire the headlight up differently, thus doing away with the small AC regulator, which is only there for the headlight .I presume

If you do that you lose half of the alternator's output! The three remaining coils will struggle to supply enough output for you to use the headlights in addition to the rest of the electrics.

keep in mind, I haven't got much of a clue of what I'm doing.

OK, honesty is best policy. Look, these are your best options IMHO.

1. Stick with the stock AC/DC system as I advised, maybe a new wiring loom of the correct configuration and a switchgear refresh, don't try and wire in something for an older model. Not a perfect system, but it does work.

Or...

2. Go for an all DC system with a nice new Lucas RM21 or Sparx 005 single phase alternator and new regulator/rectifier. The wiring is simpler, it will have more power, you can wire in your Minda switch in the casquette, and fit a universal horn/dip/indicator switch on the left-hand handlebar. IF your existing alternator rotor still has plenty of magnetism you can probably save a few $$$ just by fitting the relevant stator, they are compatible. I don't think I'd want to try and take the existing 4 wire alternator into an all DC system as a novice, though Snidal's manual says this is possible. If you feel confident enough to tackle this we can help with the re-wire, if we can all start singing off the same hymn sheet!

A.

[Williamsburg]

2. Go for an all DC system with a nice new Lucas RM21 or Sparx 005 single phase alternator and new regulator/rectifier. The wiring is simpler, it will have more power, you can wire in your Minda switch in the casquette, and fit a universal horn/dip/indicator switch on the left-hand handlebar. IF your existing alternator rotor still has plenty of magnetism you can probably save a few $$$ just by fitting the relevant stator, they are compatible.
Adrian, thanks alot, the above sounds like a plan, although due to the lockdown and it's consequences it will have to wait. I appreciate very much what you wrote ,if I was to stick to the 4wire, regarding help. I believe my reg/rectifier is a Swiss 790, does this function only with the present alternator or is this something that could be applied to the Lucas rm21, again, thanks alot