Author Topic: Royal Enfield Price HIKES (yikes!)  (Read 28658 times)

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prof_stack

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on: August 31, 2008, 06:15:32 pm
Wow, I just noticed the current USA pricing of the RE's have taken a jump.  Maybe it is old news but I was surprised.

The Electra is now shown as (starting at) $5745.
On the low end, the Bullet Classic is $5349, now with AVL.
The disc brake and oil back shock (and classic '70's styling) are worth $400?

I guess the weaker dollar, fuel prices, and demand have taken their toll.  Sheesh, I got my new (old stock) '07 Moto Guzzi Nevada last month for about the same price that the Electra is now.

So it makes me wonder about the projected price point of the UCE model.  Any word on that yet?


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Reply #1 on: August 31, 2008, 06:33:49 pm
Professor,
You named most of the culprits. raw materials (steel, rubber etc.) have risen at a rate that is unprecedented, the dollar continues to be weak even against the Indian Rupee. We all know about the cost of oil, this affects the energy costs of the factory, delivery of supplies etc. Of course sea shipping and trucking have risen quite a bit as well. Add to that the inflation in India and you have a recipe for price increases. As we said when the Electra first came out we kept the price of it artificially low. There is quite a bit of extra cost to us in the newer frame, disk brake upgraded suspension etc. We do not have the pricing of the new UCE motorcycle yet. It will definitely be more for a number of reasons. It is a totally new bike, uses more expensive parts and vendors, etc. I expect that unless energy keeps skyrocketing (drill now, while putting full court press on other sources, limit speculation) and if the dollar stabilizes (there are some signs of this)
prices may remain stable for a while though. On the other hand we can be thankful that our prices are substantially lower than our European brothers have to pay. I am actually a bit shocked at how much more expensive all motorcycles are in Europe.
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Kevin Mahoney
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ace.cafe

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Reply #2 on: August 31, 2008, 06:38:24 pm
A member of the Yahoo RE forum from France just paid the equivalent of $8500 for her new UCE over there. But they have VAT and stuff like that in France.

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Reply #3 on: August 31, 2008, 06:42:27 pm
Generally speaking bikes sold in Europe are quoted as "on the road" prices. The VAT  (value added tax, a sales tax of sorts) is around 17% (I think, please correct me if you are in Europe) then add road tax which is the price of licensing here. Even at that the prices are still high.
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prof_stack

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Reply #4 on: August 31, 2008, 09:33:09 pm
With the reliable Buell Blast thumper priced at $4800 or so, the pricing on the UCE can't get too carried away or it might occupy a really small niche.  Admittedly the Blast has its own "unique" styling, but the motor is bullet-proof (I put 10k miles on one) and the bike can run at 75mph all day with no complaint.  Buell used it to prepare for their XB line, which has the second 492cc cylinder behind it.

BUT when are we going to see a teaser photo with the styling of the UCE coming here?


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Reply #5 on: August 31, 2008, 10:13:07 pm
Unfortunately the Blast which is a good bike has not worked out so well for Harley. The last time I looked at Harley's annual report we sold more bikes in the US than they sold Blasts. I have seen them as low as $3995 a couple of years ago. Maybe they are selling better now.
You are right pricing is an issue. I am afraid that if there are leaks they will be purposeful and planned by the factory. They have been extremely tight about it. At present everything is literally under lock and key.
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birdmove

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Reply #6 on: August 31, 2008, 10:45:14 pm
    As a long time thumper emthusiast, I have followed the Buell Blast (and the Bullet!!).I was very interested in both bikes. Theres a couple of Blast forums/groups (Yahoo) that I receive digests from. Prof Stack, I believe, had a positive experience with his Blast. These forums, while many owners are happy with the bikes, are reflecting some problems with the bikes such as the breaking off of engine stabilizer bolts in the cylinder head, disintigrating oil pump drive gears, fairly frequent failure of the rubber carb boots, and fairly high oil use. I may be spoiled because the over twenty motorcycles I've owned over the last 45 years have simply used no measureable amount of engine oil between changes.
    I test rode a Blast, and really like the bike. I happen to know first hand (no police reading this I hope) that a 500cc Buell Blast can easily hit 85 mph, and cruise easily at 70. They do clunk going into first gear, and they feel a bit small physically in size to me, but I liked the bike. In fact, I bet some day I will own one of them too.
    As for the price of Bullets. I can say that I feel good at the purchase I made at Vince's. First-he was having a sale on 2007 models, as the 2008s were on the way.Second, I bought in December, so it was a buyers market. Third, my bike just runs like a top and is getting 75 miles per US gallon easily.Fourth, today, while waiting out a rain storm at a Starbucks in Orting, Wa, I had two different gray haired (like me) gents approach me. Both asked right off "what year is that motorcycle?". Which led to me going through the history of the Indian/Enfields. Both guys commented on what a great looking bike it is etc,etc. I don't get any of that when I ride my KLR650 or XT225. One asked me where a dealer was, and I told him of Vince's in Olympia. I hope he pursues that.
    So I feel good about my purchase, and I'm glad I picked up the iron model.

    Jon in Puyallup, Wa. USA
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Reply #7 on: September 01, 2008, 02:18:02 am
All  those factors play into a price hike, the biggist being a public demand for small displacement motorcycles.If  gas falls a dollar we could see business as usual (big cars and large displacement bikes on the road)
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Blue Ridge Wheeltor

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Reply #8 on: September 01, 2008, 02:52:37 am
Ural took a huge price increase too.
I haven't seen the increase on the Japs.
Prior to buying the Enfield, I was looking at the XT250 Yamaha. faster, better gas mileage, $1,000 cheaper. But no personality.
Niche bikes like the Ural and Enfield: They cost what they cost. But a lot of people buy them and decide that's not the bike for them, so you see some fine examples for sale with very low miles. I picked up a 2008 Deluxe, with 83 miles, for $4,000.

It should be pointed out the Enfield prices are msrp. Now add shipping and setup, and you are approaching $6K. At that price, I may have looked elsewhere.
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Reply #9 on: September 01, 2008, 04:42:23 am
A buddy of mine has been saving money for at least 2 years to buy a Ural Patrol. The prices keep pushing him to save a little more. This year was a big jump past the 12,000$ range. He is now thinking of buying a Triumph Scrambler and adding a sidecar. I guess the morale of the story is; old technology is fun if the price is right. Don't get me wrong I am having a blast with my RE MC,but the price was right on the edge to where I was starting to look at used and at Japan made singles. Its a tight market, all you have to do is look at all the MC brands that are no longer in business to realize if it was easy we would have a 100 makes to chose from.
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doomed1

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Reply #10 on: September 04, 2008, 06:56:37 am
i just hope the price of the UCE doesn't go above 6 and a half grand. i really want to add a few things after getting it and about 7k is my limit. fingers crossed...


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Reply #11 on: September 04, 2008, 03:51:00 pm
Doomed,
You aren't the onlhy one who hopes the price is less than that.
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StL_Stadtroller

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Reply #12 on: September 04, 2008, 05:48:05 pm
In 2000, I bought a brand-new Ural Bavarian Classic for a around $6,500 or so, OTR (I foget the exact figure, but it was less than 7K)

I haven't watched the new Urals in a while, but just yesterday decided to peek at their web site...
and I was about blown out of my chair!!

Prices are what.. $12-14 THOUSAND now?!  Holy Bolsheviks Batman!

so, that's over a 100% price increase in 8 years, which buys you "upgrades" over the Y2K model I had, many of which I really consider "detriments" in my opinion.
OH, and I see there are still only the same handful of accessories from years ago, with most un-available.

From what I hear, still cheaper and easier, and faster to order your spares from shady e-bayer in the Ukraine than the dealers too...

CMW, on the other hand... My '01 classic cost me around $4,500 if I remember correctly... all tarted up from the dealer already, OTR.
My new '07 cost me only a few hundred more, OTR.

7 years... what,, maybe a 10% increase (most of which could be attributed to going from plain classic model to a Military) and Kevin continues to deliver us the ever-improving, MASSIVE, beautiful accessory catalog, chock full of goodies readily available.

We should all get down on our hands and knees and thank the Baby Jesus that we have Kevin and CMW and the RE product available to us here in the states.

That's just my opnion, I could be wrong.
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Reply #13 on: September 04, 2008, 06:14:53 pm
Good point Stadtroller,
 I am thankful for my  being able to afford a new RE.

I don't think I'll be buying a Ural. For the money I think a Hyundai automobile would be a better choice.
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doomed1

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Reply #14 on: September 04, 2008, 07:07:19 pm
Doomed,
You aren't the onlhy one who hopes the price is less than that.
well, i would hope that there aren't people who hope the price is more. i'll probably pay whatever it is in the end, but i have a hard time imagining someone going, "ALRIGHT! The UCE is above $1200! NOW i can get me one of these!" :P


prof_stack

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Reply #15 on: September 05, 2008, 01:51:35 am
Well, i would hope that there aren't people who hope the price is more. i'll probably pay whatever it is in the end, but i have a hard time imagining someone going, "ALRIGHT! The UCE is above $1200! NOW i can get me one of these!" :P

Hey, $1,200 or slightly more sounds GREAT to me!   ::)


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Reply #16 on: September 05, 2008, 03:49:06 pm
Hey, $1,200 or slightly more sounds GREAT to me!   ::)
SHHHHHH they'll hear you! :-X


cyrusb

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Reply #17 on: September 08, 2008, 02:34:49 am
I don't think the Japanese machines have gone up like the others. Do they buy cheaper raw materials and oil?
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Reply #18 on: September 08, 2008, 03:55:24 am
Worldwide pricing is an interesting subject. Steel etc. is a commodity and most people pay the same prices more or less for raw materials. They may be able to hedge on them for a while but it is not enough to make a difference. The most expensive single process on the Royal Enfield is the chrome department. Again it is run on commodities like nickel and chrome. Royal Enfield has taken a stand that their bikes will be made of steel and not plastic, but who knows how long that will last.
 
Very large companies like the Japanese manufacturers hedge their funds to even out the ups and down of the US dollar and other currencies. This is a big thing.
'Having said all of this, how can you explain why a Triumph is much more expensive in England than the US? it is a reflection of what they think each country will bear and what price they need to be at in each country to be competitive. The fact that the Japanese in the ma bikes being  in the market has probably had the effect of keeping prices down.





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Reply #19 on: September 19, 2008, 03:08:15 am
I think Royal Enfield, like Harley Davidson, Victory/Polaris, Yamaha, , etc., makes a good, reliable classy and interesting motorcycle.  I am looking forward to seeing what the design team "over there," has come up with in the UCE. 
I trust it will be "in line" with what they currently produce, however, if the machines (and the marketing too), become cheesy, phony, and pandering, people will loose interest, the real motorcycle people will see it for what it really is.  (Some of the leading manufacturers can attest to this). 
In (my) perfect world, Royal Enfield would continue to produce affordable and reliable base models, and increase the availability of accessories, performance and retro kits, and continue to involve the owner/rider in the maintenance of the machine. 
In other words, don't make it too easy, and don't make it too shiny.
Remember, "chrome won't get'cha home"!!

 


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Reply #20 on: September 28, 2008, 10:13:23 pm
  But if you do like the Urals you could always get a gray market Dnepr for considerably less.  I think there is an importer in California bringing in mid 60's to early 70's Dnepr/DKW for around $5-6K.  Just have to be patient on them since it is really stolen technology, not sure about part availability but am going to check on that.  Am thinking I may get one as my next ride.  Will.
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Reply #21 on: September 29, 2008, 12:50:11 am
Whatever you do, do not get a Dnepr from the guy in Ohio who advertises on ebay.
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Alaroyal

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Reply #22 on: November 22, 2008, 05:34:50 am
Although I really like what I've seen of the UCE, and I am seriously thinking of trading my ElectraX for one, when they hit, frankly, the Suzuki Savage 650, excuse me, S40 Bouvelard, is really an extremely nice machine.

It also has that extra 150 cc engine, and belt final drive, and from what I have read, the thing is pretty much as dependable as a rock, especially at the miles that I believe most of these type bikes get.  I put 22,000 miles on my Nomad in a year, and 30,000 on my Gold Wing in a year and a half, and if the  trips I have planned for next year work out, I'll have 60,000 on it this time next year.  That won't be happening on a smaller bike, at least not for me.

Concerning the S40, I am probaly comparing apples and oranges, given that the Enfield is a retro styled bike, that is very lovable, "cute as a speckled pup", and about as true, in appearance, new classic as there is.

But the big difference is the price - the Suzuki forums have a lot of folks with sidecars on the S40, which it seems to handle just fine, and a lot of those owners also have Enfields.  But, at an MSRP, I believe, of $4599, which means you can buy it for a little less, for a 2009 S40, that's making the UCE, if it comes in a $6000.00, or more, start to seem like kinda not such a good deal.

In fact, I would have bought a 2008 Suzi to pull the Cozy, but there were none around, new.  Now there are.   Plus my dealer's sold me several bikes, including the Gold Wing, and I may trade my XL for a Kaw Voyager 1700 when they hit, and my GL for a new one the first year of the next redesign, probably 2010 or 11, and the dealer knows this, so I'm sure I could work a good trade for an S40 if I wanted to go that route.

One of the members on another bike forum had to have the "10,000 mile rebuild" done on his Crossbone's springer front end, and it cost about a grand.  As I said there, "nostalgia seems to have quite a price." 

Concerning nostalgia, my Sportster has been pretty trouble free, unless you consider that I've had one exhaust bracket break twice, and two others break once each, but even though I like it a lot, I have absolutely no doubt that, objectively, mechanically, the Nomad and Gold Wing are superior to it.  So are the VTX 1300, and other Japanese cruisers, that compare with it in the best apple to apple comparison, "what does it cost?".

Lots of you who have strong RE allegiances will probably say, "well, if you don't like them, quit messing with them, and get off of here with your complaining, newbie", or something like that.  But, I DO like them, I like the look, the feel, the sound, and as I've worked on mine, it's been interesting to see that the way they are made is very similar, in some respects,  to some of  the bikes I fooled with in the 60's and 70's.

And I understand and am very sympathetic with  Enfield's situation - basically it has the same concern that car and bike companies have had for a long time - how do you compete with the Japanese in price AND quality?  And I am, in a way, saddened by the fact that the RE costs more than a class similar Japanese bike, and I'm faced with the delimma of "what is nostalgia worth"?

Nostalgia does cost - as far as things like steel fenders, side covers, headlight nacelles, well, I do like them, I like tradition, but I've never known anybody that got stranded because of plastic fenders, etc.  I also am a retired Fire Chief, and the use of plastics in firefighting apparatus and equipment has truly made them better.  500 to 1500 gallon water tanks, firefighting chemical tanks, air pak tanks, for instance.  Not too of them are steel these days; composites and fiber and plastic are lighter, stronger, never rust; a steel water tank never had more than a 20 year warranty, maybe not that much, but plastic tanks have a lifetime warranty. 

I'm not much into "cheap plastic", but I never cared for cheap metal, either. (I'm not saying that the Enfield has cheap metal, it seems to have very good metal, I just don't want poor quality ANYTHING.) Even my late father, who was a union steelworker, quite often gripped about cheap metal - "dam cheap pot metal." But top quality plastic is fine by me.  Even Willie G. Davidson, who was upset that the VRod was to have a plastic fuel tank, had to accept that it had to be.  It was it was the only way to get it to hold what it needed to hold, and was a lot cheaper.

I guess I'll hush, but I just hope  the line doesn't advance too much with the new bike, and that Enfield can find some good ways to control costs, especially since they have huge, I don't guess you'd call them exactly competitors, but other companies making the same kinds of products. 
« Last Edit: November 22, 2008, 01:32:25 pm by Alaroyal »
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Reply #23 on: November 22, 2008, 07:42:05 am
  I think the S40/Savage is a good bike. It does have a couple of known issues. The most serious is the cam chain tensioner. You can read up on this if you go to the Suzuik Savage forum and do a search on the Verslaggen(spelling?). Its a modified cam chain tensioner setup that gains more adjustment on the cam chain making it last longer. But replacing the cam chain on a Savage/S40 doesn't look too tough-you don't have to split the cases. Another issue is the infamous shut-off backfire, and the oil leak at a rubber plug on the head cover. These issues aren't very serious. The cam chain being the worst.I understand sometimes, if you don't do the mod, the camchain can run out of adjustment as low as 10,000 miles or so.
    But, if we're talking thumpers here, ther is also the Buell Blast, and numerous dual sport thumpers out there.

    jon
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Reply #24 on: November 22, 2008, 01:00:26 pm
If only Buell could make an attractive motorcycle.  I really like the function and performance of his bikes.

I have trouble paying for 'developing' motorcycle brands.  I worked in Moscow in the early '90s a couple of summers and a fall and rather than rent cars (@ EU rates) we would buy local bikes and cars.  Oh, they were an awful bunch: IZH and Urals or Dniepr and Zhigs, Volgas, and Nevas.  I don't think we paid any more than $400 or $500 for any of them (near new) and you had to wrench as soon as you took ownership.  What fun, though.  A couple months later at the end of work, if a moscovite did you a favor, you'd point to the rig and point at them and point at the rig.  Da!. And, walk away.

Gosh, I couldn't pay real money for them.

The iron Enfield I have apart is an odd piece.  It's an '04 65 with a blown bottom end and sprag, with 9800 miles.  It's been rid hard and put away wet; owned by a student in Manhattan (good Enfield country, btw, as long as you don't leave the city).  I've checked out every part that comes off it and I am impressed by the workmanship and materials.  They are far better than I imagined they would be.  The paint is quality stuff and metals are generally of good material.  It leaked no oil, which surprised me.  A serious effort was made to make the electrical connections reliable and they have succeeded for the most part. 

Some of the design is out to lunch though and there are some ridiculously dodgey bits of both English and Indian origin.  I hope these get cleaned up in the UCE. 

The workmanship and materials have the potential to upgrade the brand (and price) here in the US, if the UCE has good design.  But, it still has to earn that place (and price) to go from 'novelty' to a real competitor to the Japanese (Chinese and Korean). 

The Cologne show bikes are stunning and right on the mark.  Good moves; the market can use another 'real' motorcycle. 
« Last Edit: November 23, 2008, 11:55:21 am by taildraggin »
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Reply #25 on: November 22, 2008, 03:13:43 pm
Good post, Taildraggin, and because Buell's are built strictly for the sportbike market, if Harley-Davidson (Buell's parent company) were to install that Buell thumper engine in a different frame with front pegs, higher bars, etc, and badge it as a Harley-Davidson, "The Company" would attract a larger segment of the motorcycle market towards purchasing a Harley-Davidson (the segment that feels that Sportsters and Big Twins are too large, too heavy, and less than thrifty).

If Harley-Davidson were to do that, they would also be competing directly with the new UCE.  But RE is safe, because Harley-Davidson is seemingly oblivious to market realities, and is instead concentrating their resources on refining their existing V-twins, as well as building ever-larger engines.  My '07 FX is powered by a 96 cu. in. powerplant, and I understand that Harley will soon or has already introduced a larger engine than that!  So while Harley-Davidson caters to a segment of the market that is profoundly affected by the state of the economy, Royal Enfield thumps along to improve and solidify their position in the much larger market segment in which they exist.  Sounds like good business sense to me!!
« Last Edit: November 22, 2008, 06:12:36 pm by RAKe »
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Reply #26 on: November 22, 2008, 03:40:38 pm
I suppose it all depends on what a person wants.

It always amazes me beyond words, when people compare some Japanese bike to a Bullet. As if there is any comparison to be made.

It's not like buying microwave ovens, with a "feature and price comparison" at WalMart.
Even if that IS the way a Japanese bike is bought.
That is, after a quick-scan over the latest "Consumer Reports" magazine and reading a few articles from the various  cloned bike  magazines, all filled with articles of "600cc Sportbike Shootout" for the umpteenth time this year, of course.

The Bullet is waiting around the corner and down the street at the small shop, with a very humble and old-looking device that was once known as a "proper motorbike". Something which seems to be all but forgotten in this time of appliances and hype.
The intrinsic value of a Bullet is not listed on any spec sheet or price list.
Basically, if you have to ask, you'll never know.
« Last Edit: November 22, 2008, 04:40:26 pm by ace.cafe »
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Reply #27 on: November 22, 2008, 06:44:28 pm
Good post, Taildraggin, and because Buell's are built strictly for the sportbike market, if Harley-Davidson (Buell's parent company) were to install that Buell thumper engine in a different frame with front pegs, higher bars, etc, and badge it as a Harley-Davidson, "The Company" would attract a larger segment of the motorcycle market towards purchasing a Harley-Davidson (the segment that feels that Sportsters and Big Twins are too large, too heavy, and less than thrifty).

If Harley-Davidson were to do that, they would also be competing directly with the new UCE.  But RE is safe, because Harley-Davidson is seemingly oblivious to market realities, and is instead concentrating their resources on refining their existing V-twins, as well as building ever-larger engines.  My '07 FX is powered by a 96 cu. in. powerplant, and I understand that Harley will soon or has already introduced a larger engine than that!  So while Harley-Davidson caters to a segment of the market that is profoundly affected by the state of the economy, Royal Enfield thumps along to improve and solidify their position in the much larger market segment in which they exist.  Sounds like good business sense to me!!

I hope H-D doesn't have to ask for help. I looked at Buell a couple of years ago, I did like the idea of a U.S. made MC that was affordable and would suit my needs. I think Rake hit the nail on the head, if Buell (H-D) made a bike that  had  a British style frame and a small V-twin they would open up a new costumer base.
« Last Edit: November 22, 2008, 07:14:49 pm by REpozer »
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Reply #28 on: November 22, 2008, 07:12:21 pm
Word.....     I guess thats why we pay taxes...   ???

I went to the local Harley shop before I bought my RE.  Sat on all the bikes but the sales guy did not show me anything (even used) below $10k..

 Funny thing is I might have bought a Blast is they had shown me one, but they did not even have one in stock and did not mention it existed. I wanted to buy an American machine and figured the RE was the next best thing and jap bikes seem to be Harley clones or crotch rockets.   I'm glad I bought the RE but it would have  been nice to have a dealer 5 minutes from the house.
« Last Edit: November 22, 2008, 07:22:40 pm by Gary-FL »
Gary
57' RE Crusader 250
67' Ford Mustang
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95 RE Ace Clubman 535
01 HD 1200 Custom
07 RE 5spd HaCK

* all actions described in this post are fictional *


Alaroyal

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Reply #29 on: November 22, 2008, 09:18:13 pm
Some outstanding points made in these posts, and I understand the position of "if you have to ask why I ride a Harley, Triumph, Indian, Royal Enfield, Ducati, or any brand, you'll never know".

I also understand the power of nostalgia, tradition, love of brand, the almost mystical appeal of what feels right to someone, and the fact that that appeal is worth money.

But to say that someone can't buy a bike just by looking at price and features, well, I worked, for the last 15 years of my fire service career, when I was a Deputy Fire Chief and Fire Chief, with a spec and bid process for our big stuff.

You decided what you wanted, wrote specs for it, and then got bids.  Although Alabama is not a "lowest bid only" state, we have "lowest and best", and I'm pretty comfortable with finding what I want at the best price.

To me, THAT has some value.  It's kinda like the Ferrari people, and the feeling they have about their marque, but in the case of Ferrari, there are also some highly objective criteria that would support the feelings.

Now, if the appeal of a certain brand is one of the things that is very important to a person, then by all means that has a dollar value.  But at some point that premise has to lose out.  I wonder how many UCE bikes Enfield could sell in the U.S. if they cost $9000.00?  Would the extra profit margin be enough to offset the lower sales volume, I dunno, Harley would be the company with that answer.

And as far as comparing Japanese bikes with other brands, using OBJECTIVE, NON- EMOTIONALLY CHARGED criteria, the Japanese stack up really well, especially on some notable examples. I hope no one thinks that a TC 88 or 96 or 103 (as found on the new HD trike and Police bikes) or 110 HD engine is just as likely to go 300,000 miles with nothing but routine maintenance as is a Honda 1500 or 1800GL

Don't get me wrong, I love riding my HD, and my Enfield, (in fact, I'm negotiating with my Brother in law to buy his 100Th Anni edition Electra Glide Ultra Classic), and sometimes will ride them instead of the GL, and I don't ride around wondering if I'll break down, but if it happened on either the HD or RE, I would be a lot less surprised than if it happened on the Honda. When I bought the Gold Wing, I considered two bikes, the GL and an Ultra Classic.  Almost nothing for my trade, MSRP, and big set up and doc charges for the HD, but a good deal for my trade, something off MSRP, tiny setup and doc, and I bought the GL. (from the good folks who later sold me the Enfield)    Heritage took a back seat that day.

Corvettes and Mustangs?  I'd like to have a nice one of each,  but some of the Vette and Stang people are REALLY passionate.  "Matching serial numbers on everything!"  But to me that wouldn't be a big deal.

I like my Enfield, but I like it because its pretty, a link to a simpler time, to my youth, to carefree days, it IS a wonderful example of a "proper motorbike", all highly subjective factors; I also like that it's easy to handle, gets great gas mileage, highly objective factors, but I don't like it because I think its mechanically superior, because it's not.  My first "motorcycle", (except for a lawnmower engined "mini bike") as it was for so many, was a Cushman Eagle, and it was the realization of my deams. I used to fantasize that I would be some kind of Texas Ranger riding through the desert on one.  Not very realistic, was it, but that's the stuff of a kid's dreams.

In fact, if the RE hadn't had an electric starter, I wouldn't have bought it.  I long ago decided unless its pretty much some museum piece that I expect to ride only rarely I'm not about to ever again have to jump up and down on a machine to make it start.   And if it turns out to be an undependable machine, well, I know how to pull a ripcord and bail out, because one thing I will not tolerate is a machine that I feel is likely to lay down on me.

We all have our opinions, and I pretty much respect everyone's; I may not agree, but I try to adhere to the old adage, "we can disagree without being disagreeable."

I would just relate that when I bought my first Honda CB750 in 1971, I did so because friends, who knew I wanted a good size bike, said "Man you GOT to have a Harley".  Well, I didn't see that I did. So, I guess I "rebelled" buy buying a Honda.

I've had 17 Honda bikes over the years, in addition to other brands, and although I can't say that none of the Honda's had problems, I can honestly say that never, in all 17 Honda's, has anything gone wrong that kept me from pushing the button and riding.  And to me there is something extremely comforting and satisfying about riding along, not even wondering if I might have a problem.  I know I could, and some folks do, but I never have, and that's nice for me.

Also, I truly believe that I am a person who is at least as concerned about how nice it is to ride, and less about what I might be riding.  In fact, my favorite all around bike of all time was my Nomad, and I probably should have my head examined for letting her get away.  For me, I'd leave it at "if you have to ask what it's like to ride a motorcycle, you'll never know."  Or, "only a dog with its head hung out a car window. also knows what its like to ride a motorcycle."

So, I guess I can say, honestly, so I can get into the flow, "if you have to ask why I ride a Honda,  you'll never know."
« Last Edit: November 22, 2008, 09:38:00 pm by Alaroyal »
Dave

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Reply #30 on: November 23, 2008, 03:45:43 am
I think that is is fine to make a purchase using the "scientific method" of listing your needs in a clinical way and then purchasing based on what fits you the best. I think that purchasing based on price is another legitimate way to buy a bike. I daresay however for better of worse, most bikes are purchased for emotional reasons. Harley is the absolute pinnacle of that premise. Not that long ago no body bought a Harley because it was a "good" bike because it wasn't. It was an OK bike (reliability with a good company backing it). If you wanted a great bike you bought Japanese. they are as close to plug and play as it gets. An Enfield is mostly an emotional decision. There is no doubt that when you are on an Enfield you will get more attention than your buddy riding an Arlen Ness special. On the other hand you will be doing more adjusting etc than he will. (Not so with the UCE, but that is another matter). The people in the office are good examples. Some ride bikes because that bike is all they could afford, some because they like the brand, some because it happened to be the first bike they rode. The bottom line is whether you own an $800 Chinese bike or a $50,000 custom we are all riding something.
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Kevin Mahoney
www.cyclesidecar.com


Alaroyal

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Reply #31 on: November 23, 2008, 04:26:17 am
Hear, Hear, Kevin!  :)

I would be the first to admit that buying a bike is a mixture of science and art, of objectivity and subjectivity, of logic and folly. I also agree that the the most important single element that ties us together is the statement "it doesn't matter WHAT you ride, it's THAT you ride."

And I really am very interested in the Cycle World test of the UCE, and seeing one in person, cause it gives the impression of being a big step up.

NOW - and I've been wanting to ask this, let me pose a question. Why, since there was such a huge redesign for the UCE, didn't RE give it a six speed tranny? Surely there was sufficient redesign of the cases so that it could be done, and I guarantee that even my Electra X could use an extra gear.

It would have solved a lot of problems, especially if the front or rear sprocket is easily accessable (I hope).  Set things up so 1st (overall) is a little lower than now, and 6th a little higher(overall), than 5th is now.  Then, with a sidecar, or some off road use, and lower gears desired, change sprocket(s) for better pull, and the top end is still the same as it will be now with the 5 speed.  Some engine mods, and a desire to ride the freeways, go to  bigger sprocket(s) and have really tall freeway gears, and the bottom end is the same as it will be now with the 5 speed.

Maybe this is not something that is of much interest to the Indian market, but it wouldn't have hurt it's usefullness there, and it would have been a great selling point here, and maybe in Europe, too.   Plus, could this have cost much more, given the state of computer design and engineering these days, since there was apparently a fairly clean sheet approach, and probably a lot of the new design was computer assisted anyway?

Thanks
« Last Edit: November 23, 2008, 04:28:14 am by Alaroyal »
Dave

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Reply #32 on: November 23, 2008, 04:04:14 pm
Enfield has a policy of only changing transmission designs every 65 years. The five speed has a long time to go (he said tongue in cheek). This is pure speculation because this subject has never come up in any of the development meetings that I have been in, but I think the idea was that they had a good transmission already that most people liked. It was quite reliable and shifted reasonably well. When the new engine was designed the number one design criteria above all others was that it be reliable. They had a good transmission and wanted to focus on the engine. Beyond reliability the engine needed to have Royal Enfield DNA, that is a long stroke, pushrod single. Only this kind of engine gives the sound and feel that RE customers have come to expect. Third it needed to be able to be driven at 70mph without hurting the engine. Next it needed to be able to be serviced by the home mechanic - RE is hung up on this as they see our customer base as being fairly self-reliant people. The idea that you would design a unit so that only someone with factory tools etc. could service it does not follow that philosophy. For example in India they hold free training for all mechanics regardless of whether or not they sell Enfields. This ensures that the customer can get good service anywhere. Ironically this simplicity sometimes causes us problems here in the US. This may sound odd, but I can't tell you how many mechanics I talk to that are baffled by the simplicity. If you understand basic electricity, have a reasonable set of mechanical skill and can read, nothing is beyond your reach in terms of Enfield diagnosis or repair. If you aren't mechanical, but can read and are willing to pick others brains you can also become quite skilled fairly quickly. Many mechanics get in trouble with the Enfield by overthinking the issues.
Best Regards,
Kevin Mahoney
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Alaroyal

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Reply #33 on: November 23, 2008, 04:50:50 pm
Enfield has a policy of only changing transmission designs every 65 years. The five speed has a long time to go (he said tongue in cheek).

If you aren't mechanical, but can read and are willing to pick others brains you can also become quite skilled fairly quickly. Many mechanics get in trouble with the Enfield by overthinking the issues.

 ;D  ;D  ;D

I can agree with that very easily, even though I've been around RE for only a short time.  When I pulled the tank to adjust the valves, and as I was taking apart the headlight assembly and wiring to the  "trafficators" for my fairing project, I felt like I was in the late 60's - early 70's, working on my Honda CB 350, 450 and 750s again.  The stuff looked very familiar.

I thought there had been a redesign of the tranny, along with the UCE engine, if there was not, then that explains a lot. "Enfield has a policy of only changing transmission designs every 65 years."    That reminds me of a comment I once heard on a National Public Radio segment on religion, where the "expert" said  there were "two routes to change in the Greek Orthodox Church - the route that takes 800 years, and the slow route."

I can't tell you how many HD people I've gotten upset at me for suggesting that HD should change its crank design to side by side rods on the same throw, with plain bearings and a split rod cap, so the average owner could easily take it apart without a press, or if it had to stay as skinny as it is, a split cap mod to the current fork and knife arrangement for the same reason,  or even a master/ slave rod arrangement like a radial airplane engine.

 I don't know how much of a mechanic I am, but maybe you're offering some advice, or a lesson, so I will try to not overthink the issues, even though I've almost made a lifelong, personal art form, (some of my friends call it a sickness) of wondering "now, why didn't they do it THIS way !!!?

As an educator, and a guy who's also rolling up some years, I like to ask my students "what is the difference between life and school?"  The answer: "In school, there is a lesson, then a test; in life, there is a test, then a lesson."  Guess I'll just assume it's one of those situations, and be happy for the lesson.  8)  :)
« Last Edit: November 23, 2008, 08:44:24 pm by Alaroyal »
Dave

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ace.cafe

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Reply #34 on: November 23, 2008, 05:09:26 pm
Here's my take on it.

People buy a Royal Enfield because it is different. Not because it is the same as everything else. Up till just now, they mostly bought it because it was a true antique/classic type bike that you could still buy new. It really was a classic bike. It wasn't a "tarted-up" new appliance with fat fenders like all the other "retro bikes".
That's what they wanted. The wanted the oddities. They  wanted the quirks. They wanted to fiddle with it like an antique. And they wanted the experience of riding a classic old British bike, with all of the things that went along with it.

If they wanted a Honda with some fat fenders on it, they can already go down and get that at any neighborhood store.

What drew people to the Bullet was alot more than just an "appearance package". It was the real thing.
Hopefully, it can re-define the "real thing" in a new way, because if it becomes just  basically a copy of a Honda with fat fenders, there's no real reason to buy it. Real Hondas are already out there. And they're affordable too.

There must be some other over-riding reason to buy an RE. Just being able to "push the button and ride trouble-free" is not enough. That's available on nearly everything else out there already. There has to be something else. Something less definable. Something that calls the prospective buyer to the marque in an emotional way. Just like with the Harleys.
And that's why Harley is successful. Because it "defines" the genre of motorcycles that it sells. Everything else is a copy of it. No, a Harley is not nearly as perfectly engineered motorcycle as a Yamaha. And it doesn't want to be, either. It wants to be a Harley, and the Yamaha, Honda, Kawasaki, and Suzuki engineers are pulling their hair out, because no matter how perfectly they try to clone a Harley, it's still not a Harley.
And people will pay extra to have a real Harley, and not a Japanese clone bike, because it's the real thing.

That is the way to succeed in a world of sameness. Be the original, in a genre that people want, and let other people copy you.


« Last Edit: November 23, 2008, 05:33:58 pm by ace.cafe »
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birdmove

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Reply #35 on: November 23, 2008, 05:31:45 pm
    For me the 2007 Royal Enfield 500 Classic (iron) that I bought just made sense. I'm a big fan of older British motorcycles.As a high school student (class of 1972) I never had a car.Didn't want a car.Wasn't interested in cars. I rode a 1964 BSA 500 twin. Rode it to school and everywhere else I needed to go. My motorcycling life has included a lot of "thumpers" too. So when I finally really got to "see" an Enfield Bullet, after reading everything I could find about them for years, I was totally up on the appearance of the bike.I still think my Classic is certainly one of the best looking motorcycles I've ever seen. And its a thumper too!! My concern, was the same as everyone elses-reliability and the ability of the motorcycle to run reliably on US roads. I came to grips with the inability of the Bullet to run US freeways for any distance because it gives me an excuse to run the back roads and plan my routes accordingly. So far my 2007 has been a very reliable motorcycle at just over 2000 miles. And I have come to the conclusion that the people that write the negative reviews and comments on these bikes are trying to pretend that the bike is a modern Japanese motorcycle, that is trying to do a very short break in at too high of speeds, and then trying to make a freeway bike of it.
    I am very much up on my Bullet, and have said so on many on line forums (advrider and many others), and in person to the many people that ask me about my bike. I can see why they are building the new unit construction bikes, and I applaud them for trying to keep the classic appearance. But I am sad to see them drop the iron motors. The iron has simply been legislated out of existance. I wish it could have been kept, even in a limited production form somehow. I still don't know how they were able to keep making the Bullet with points and condenser ignitions all these years.
    I hope the new models sell well. I also hope that getting parts for my Bullet doesn't get to be difficult over time.

    Jon in Puyallup, Wa.
Jon in Keaau, Hawaii


Alaroyal

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Reply #36 on: November 23, 2008, 10:43:22 pm
I believe this illustrates one of the great strengths of the, "endeavor", lets call it, of motorcycling, and that is the sometimes intense personal emotional involvement of brand.

If you read brand specific sites, you see it; HD, Royal Enfield, it's there, Indian, Ducati, Honda, (I once read, on a Gold Wing site, a post by an owner who was PO'd about something, and said he would trade the thing, but he couldn't stand the thought of  either a BMW or riding "obsolete technology"), Triumph, talk about people who like "proper motorbikes", I know the purists are gonna literally despise the new 1600CC Thunderbird next year, Kawasaki, (sites dedicated to the old style Concours (Connies) treat those thing like religious relics, and, oh boy, the Vincent owner's sites.

Richard Harris' song "1952 Vincent Black Lightling" which I think is the best motorcycle song ever, has a line, which he will sing live as; 

"Now Nortons and Indians and Greeve's and Harleys won't do,
They don't have a soul like a Vincent '52."

Anyone who has a dream machine or brand is convinced that it is THE brand, and that's probably the way it should be.  Passion about what we have, or like, or do, is one of the great attributes of being human.  It's one of the things has always inspired humans to move forward.

And nothing will ever be able to convince anyone that anything other than their brand is the best, whatever that brand might be.  We all know that no brand is better than every other brand in every possible way. (I guess we all know that, although I asked, with total innocence and lack of subtrefuge, a HD salesman for comments on the changes to the engine mounting system on the touring bikes, and she told me "Harley engines are mounted exactly like they need to be for Harleys".  When I then couldn't resist asking her, "since HD uses two systems, either solid mount counterbalanced engine, or non counterbalanced rubber mount engine, which do you prefer?", she just walked away.)

As far as Honda not being able to make a HD, well, no brand can really make another, and as far as simply making a look alike, the auto industry has been copycatting each other for decades.

If an individual's definition of any brand is "this is THE real deal", they will always view any other brand as being something other than genuine.  So which brand is the REAL, real deal?  Whichever one somebody thinks it is, and that's all that will ever matter to that person. 

I like to ride my Bullet on backroads, where it's really most at home, and lots of time take the very long way to and from work, and sometimes get on the slab for a bit, and if I get a UCE, I'll like its capabilities probably even more.  Of course, being a unit construction engine doesn't make the UCE nontraditional, because even though I'm not an Enfield expert, I believe I'm correct that RE made unit construction engines a long time ago.

I also enjoy riding my HD, I love the sound, love the appearance, nobody else makes a single throw crank 45 degree v engine, which is, of course, the reason they sound that way, anybody COULD do that, but there are very sound engineering reasons NOT to, and I like that it's a U. S. company that's managed to survive a long time. 

I do admit that quite a few HD folks over the decades have offered me guff about riding a Honda, but really, riding what you feel good on no matter what brand, is the essence of being a bit of a rebel, isn't it?

I had a long ago ancestor back on the Emerald Isle who was one of seven people who drew up a Declaration of Independence of Ireland from England. Apparently this was a common activity in those days.  He and his six co-conspirators were summarily rounded up by the Crown and hanged for treason. This seems to have also been a common activity. 

Wouldn't want to be hanged for my brand loyalty philosophy, but I don't mind saying to someone "if your idea of the ways things are doesn't agree with mine, then I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree."

I also like my GL a lot, and even though it doesn't have the sound of a HD air cooled twin, the HD doesn't have the sound of a Honda flat six, either.

If you have an opportunity to ride an 1800, do so, run it to just south of the soft rev limiter in four gears of the five, and realize that when you grab full throttle in 1st that it hits redline almost literally before you can get ready to shift.  I recommend it, cause there is nothing like that particular song and dance.  It may be a tourer,  but its also a an extremely soulful bike. A different song than a v-twin, but a stirring one, still. Just as a long stroke single is a unique song, too.

I really don't think Japanese engineers are worrying about the fact that they can't make a HD, they just realize that even though they can't convert most HD aficionados, or match HD "mystique", they can certainly beat it in engineering, as can other companies.  Harley doesn't build a " traditional" V twin engine that is the equal of the Yamaha Raider's, or the Suzi M109. We can't count the VRod, cause as good as it is, and it's top drawer, a lot of the HD faithful can't stand them, and haven't forgiven the Motor Company for building what they call a "Japanese Clone".  :o

Of course, a lot of HD oldtimers couldn't stand the EVO when it came out; "hear no EVO, see no EVO, ride no EVO, then some of those folks got to love the EVO, and hated when the EVO went away, and the twinc arrived, so traditions do change.

I wish I could see my way clear to buy restored, or had the time to restore, one of the old original CB750 Hondas. In my opinion it is possibly the most influential motorcycle in history, at least arguably that.

Oh, well, enough, I guess.   I'm gonna go work on putting my old bat wing fairing that once was on a HD police bike, with modern LED lights now installed, onto my RE, to which I've added ATV handlebar risers, and a quick release plug for my battery tender and tourmaster electric jacket.  She's getting to be just what I want her to be, and that's the most traditional thing any bike can be, true to its owner. 

One thing for sure,  everybody ride safe.   ;D
« Last Edit: November 24, 2008, 01:20:03 pm by Alaroyal »
Dave

"The reason most people don't recognize opportunity when it knocks, is because opportunity almost wears work clothes."


taildraggin

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Reply #37 on: November 24, 2008, 03:09:39 am
I'd say the Japanese are watching RE closely.  If they can sell a 'classic' 500 single for $6500, they'll come running with a "W350" or somesuch converted from a supermoto.  There is a need for 'interesting' small bikes, now (as there is for cars).  Aside from the Ninja 250 and some awkward supermotos, there is little excitment in the small bike market.   

The Mini and the Vespa are good examples of inexpensive chic.  Both sell at a premium to the competition and have loyal followings.  (Harley's have more SUV-like margins at the top end of the market and even more fanatic following, so they don't have to compete as hard on price.)  Vespa's model may be a good one for RE.
 
In terms of pricing, Enfield may have a good product with the UCE and should come out with a fairly high price for it, if reliability is reasonable.   When competition arrives, RE can always 'factory discount' and they'll already be along on the production optimization curve.  I'm sure they are a low cost producer, so they can ride along on tighter margins, if they must.

If you wince when you view a Vulcan or W650, the Enfield is a pleasant surprise.  If they can add some better reliability they will have all the pieces in place.  Management seems to be making the right moves.
« Last Edit: November 24, 2008, 03:11:32 am by taildraggin »
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Reply #38 on: November 24, 2008, 07:18:56 am
    The new Suzuki TU250 is a pretty good looking modern Japanese roadster. But the Japanese have never had any luck trying to sell street thumpers in the US. Witness the very good Yamaha SR500 (kick only) and the Honda FT500 Ascot (electric only, and with a weak starting system). The Ascot was a nice looking bike that used the XL500 engine, only converted to electric only starting.Except for the ugly rectangular headlight. Of course the SR used the XT500 dual sport engine. I'm glad to see the Suzuki TU250, just like I'm glad to see any new street thumper.
    The Buell Blast seems to have sold pretty well. I've read rumors that Buell may be redesigning their smallest bike.

    Jon
Jon in Keaau, Hawaii


Alaroyal

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Reply #39 on: November 24, 2008, 04:57:32 pm
Agreed, Birdmove, the TU 250 is a rerally sharp machine. here's a link to its place on the Suzi site if anyone wants to see it:

http://www.suzukicycles.com/Products/TU250XK9

If HD would build a bike that looked like a standard Sportster, just a little smaller, with the Blast engine in it, with a single shorty muffler, just a simple, light, and reasonably priced machine, I believe they would sell it like mad.

It could sell a standard, low, and maybe custom version, because lots of the stuff that would be needed is already in its catalog.

I attracted a lot of attention a couple months ago when I rode my Electra to the local HD store.  Lots of folks were looking, but acting like they weren't, but several talked to me about it. 

For what its worth, I got some looks and comments at my local Tractor Supply Store, as I was putting a couplpe of 20 lb bags of bird food on the rear seat.  One guy, who owned a Big Dog chopper, said "I saw that long bubble muffler, and knew it had to be a British bike of some kind."

They certainly are attention getters.

Dave

"The reason most people don't recognize opportunity when it knocks, is because opportunity almost wears work clothes."


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Reply #40 on: November 24, 2008, 05:30:51 pm
Ace, I fully agree with all the points in your recent posting (Reply #34 on: November 23, 2008, 09:09:26 AM)

Best regards,

Papa Juan
Long live the Bullets and those who ride them!

Keep the shiny side up, the boots on the pegs and best REgards,

Papa Juan

REA:    Member No. 119
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NAME: Perla


geoffbaker

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Reply #41 on: November 24, 2008, 11:37:11 pm
I agree with both Cabo and ace..

But HOW exactly does RE bring their bikes into the modern world while keeping that classic old feel?

Ultimately, perhaps, they shouldn't... only time will tell.

For me, I don't want a new, easy start bike that looks like an old bike. I wanted and got the real thing... and have found a million ways already to tinker with her... and I'll keep doing that until something happens that means I need a whole new bike... and then I'll get another RE (used) and keep going.

I guess if I was really honest, I would say that if I could afford it, I would be tinkering on 50's Beemers or a Vincent Black Shadow... but the reality is that this is the level of tinkermanship which I can afford!

So for me the RE is ideal... a quirky piece of machinery you have NO choice but to get to know well...

and a modern, trouble free RE would be... well, oxymoronic if nothing else...

And what would I do with my time if my RE didn't constantly need work? Or if I couldnt find something that I really needed to change on the bike?

I'd be miserable!


prof_stack

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Reply #42 on: November 25, 2008, 01:39:49 am
...
Richard Harris' song "1952 Vincent Black Lightling" which I think is the best motorcycle song ever, has a line, which he will sing live as; 

"Now Nortons and Indians and Greeve's and Harleys won't do,
They don't have a soul like a Vincent '52."

Oops, you accidentally inserted an extra motorycylcle!

From the actual lyrics page:
"Says James, in my opinion, there's nothing in this world
Beats a 52 Vincent and a red headed girl
Now Nortons and Indians and Greeves won't do
They don't have a soul like a Vincent 52 ...
"


There's a fair number of folk that became familiar with this tune from the bluegrass master Del McCoury who arranged a dandy version of the song.


Alaroyal

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Reply #43 on: November 25, 2008, 01:30:54 pm
No, if you check carefully, you'll see I did not insert an extra motorcycle (I wasn't engaging in any ad lib HD bashing); my post stated as follows:

{Richard Harris' song "1952 Vincent Black Lightling" which I think is the best motorcycle song ever, has a line, which he will sing live as; 

"Now Nortons and Indians and Greeve's and Harleys won't do,
They don't have a soul like a Vincent '52."}


I know that the song is not WRITTEN that way, but if you'll note my post, I stated that Richard Thompson would sing it live with the word "Harley" in the line, and he does. Unfortunately, I've never heard him in concert, but I have a concert recording of him doing so, which is how I knew that. Anybody can perform it, however they want, but since it's his song, I guess he gets some special privilege.

He actually uses what may be a very "Proper Grammar"  form of the word "Greeves"; I mispelled how he pronounced it.  I believe the brand was "Greeves", singular with an s, and he pronounces the plural in his song as  Greeves - es. That could be an archaic way to pluralize the word, possibly regional.

There are lots of good versions of that song, but my favorite is by a female singer, and I can't rememebr who; she sang it as a ballad, and it is probably as impressive as "Arms of the Angel", in its impact.  I'll see if i can find out the artist of that version.  If you know who it is, let me know.
« Last Edit: November 25, 2008, 01:45:51 pm by Alaroyal »
Dave

"The reason most people don't recognize opportunity when it knocks, is because opportunity almost wears work clothes."


Sam Simons

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Reply #44 on: November 27, 2008, 01:02:04 am
Several great responses here,fellas.Most of us have become accustomed to the eternal cost increase of just about everything.....Personally,I can accept that situation
to a point,provided it's a reasonable sounding increase. I.E.,a 1.9% jump sounds
believeable to me,but certainly not 2X,4X or more....that,IMO,is greed gambling that
the prospective buyer 'won't walk away'....that they'll go ahead and make the purchase(after all hardly anyone makes a purchase nowadays with the intent
to pay that item off,so it's just a few more dollars on that monthly payment,no biggie....).
So,with that mentality,large price increases are more times than not,'accepted'(with
a bit of grumbling....)and the purchase is made. The Ural was mentioned and I also
own one,and I wouldn't buy another new example because I don't believe that
 all of the 'improvements' claimed justify the presentday MSRP of that brand,and,
to connect the dots here,both it and the Enfield are very much niche brands sold here in small numbers. Large price increases obviously threaten future sales(and falsely
inflate the values of the existing used units).
I'm hoping that Enfield increases the prices of their product only when manufacturing
costs actually demand it,and those increases are accurate,honest,and minimal.....


Kevin Mahoney

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Reply #45 on: November 27, 2008, 05:15:44 am
I posted an extensive answer somewhere else. REM prices its bikes based on cost of production. It is the only way a small brand can really do it. We do not have the luxury of selling something for a loss in one part of the world and making money in another country. (Why can you buy a Triumph much cheaper in the US than in the UK?). Whatever price increases we will see are the result of increased costs and improved more expensive parts and manufacturing processes.
Best Regards,
Kevin Mahoney
www.cyclesidecar.com


scoTTy

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Reply #46 on: November 28, 2008, 02:33:33 am
i bought the Enfield because I wanted it..  I bought my 1st BMW in 1975 because I wanted it.. I was going to trade my 98 bmw for a new one , but they wanted another 10 grand.. seems erveyrtime I traded for beemers 10 to 12 grand.. so I sold mine , bought the RE and put money in my pocket.. sure I can't go 176 mph anymore, but that's a good thing.. my current 2007 is a keeper.. someday I might buy the new one and turn it into a cafe racer