[Dave1]

Hello guys and gals

I have a 2004 RE Bullet 65 500. My bike is fitted with points.

My kill switch didn't work, I want to check that I have rewired it correctly so I don't damage anything.

I found a wire hanging down, behind the battery box, the wire has black and white colour, with a small ring terminal at the end.

The ring termial looks like it connects to the coil.

The wire that comes directly from the points goes to the negative side of the coil.

So I decided to experiment. I started my engine, switched the kill switch to the kill position. Then I tried contacting the little ring terminal to the negative side of the coil. It did not kill the engine.

So then I repeasted the test, this time I contacted the black and white wire ring terminal to the positive side of the coil, and it killed the engine.

Is this the right place that the black and white ring terminal connects to? Should I have connected it somewhere else? Like perhaps the frame?

Dave

[Arizoni]

I'm looking at an old photo of a  12v wiring diagram for the "US/CANADA VERSION" Royal Enfield.  I assume it is for the RE's about as old or older than yours.

The electrical power supply goes from the key ignition switch to a wiring connector .
I think the wire is Brown/White.  The color letters are very difficult to read so it might be Black/White.

  Two wires come out of the connector (Brown/White or Black/White?) with one going to the ammeter and the other going to the "kill" switch.   The "kill" switch is an on/off switch.  When it is OFF, the power from the key switch stops there.
When the "kill switch" is ON the  power goes directly to the + terminal of the ignition coil.
The wire connecting the "kill switch" to the ignition coil + terminal is White.

The negative (-) terminal on the coil goes directly to the ignition points.
The diagram does not say what color this wire is.

There are no other wires connected to the ignition coil except for the high voltage wire going to the spark plug.

Before you go connecting unknown wires to things, at least use a volt/ohm meter to find out if the wire is powered or grounded.

It might be powered only when the ignition key switch is on or powered at all times.
If it is a ground wire and you connect it to something that should receive power you will cause a direct short and probably melt down your wiring harness.

[Dave1]

Thanks Arizoni, will check tomorrow. I certainly don't want to melt my wiring harness.

The black and white wire is defiantly something to do with the kill switch, When the wire is not connected to anything at all, the kill switch does not work. If I connect the wire to the frame, the kill switch will work. If I connect it to the positive side of the coil it works.

I just need to do the checks you mention. The thing is I am struggling to see where it would connect to, if it is indeed meant to earth to the frame? The ring terminal is so small, it only just fits on to the positive terminal on the coil! I'm not aware of anywhere on the frame with a screw that small? Anybody Know where else it is meant to go?

Dave

[tooseevee]

Hello guys and gals

I have a 2004 RE Bullet 65 500. My bike is fitted with points.

My kill switch didn't work, I want to check that I have rewired it correctly so I don't damage anything.

I found a wire hanging down, behind the battery box, the wire has black and white colour, with a small ring terminal at the end.

The ring termial looks like it connects to the coil.

The wire that comes directly from the points goes to the negative side of the coil.

So I decided to experiment. I started my engine, switched the kill switch to the kill position. Then I tried contacting the little ring terminal to the negative side of the coil. It did not kill the engine.

So then I repeasted the test, this time I contacted the black and white wire ring terminal to the positive side of the coil, and it killed the engine.

Is this the right place that the black and white ring terminal connects to? Should I have connected it somewhere else? Like perhaps the frame?

Dave

             This is making my brain melt and I've been thinking about it all day.

              Are you saying that the engine will start and run with that wire not connected to anything?

               And it will kill the engine when touched to the POS side of the coil?

               Shouldn't a kill switch wire attach to the NEG terminal where the points wire attaches and then ground the points to the frame when switched to Kill or closed position?

               Arizoni, help me here. I'm just not smart enough. I'm afraid to hit Post

               If the kill switch (closed) on an Enfield provides 12V POS to the coil, how can the engine start if the wire is disconnected and then kill it when connected?

                Shouldn't a kill switch be normally open to run and when you put it to kill position (closed) it grounds the points and shuts off the spark?

                 I'll be glad when Dave resolves this. It's driving me nuts.

 

[Dave1]

             This is making my brain melt and I've been thinking about it all day.

              Are you saying that the engine will start and run with that wire not connected to anything?

               And it will kill the engine when touched to the POS side of the coil?

               Shouldn't a kill switch wire attach to the NEG terminal where the points wire attaches and then ground the points to the frame when switched to Kill or closed position?

               Arizoni, help me here. I'm just not smart enough. I'm afraid to hit Post

               If the kill switch (closed) on an Enfield provides 12V POS to the coil, how can the engine start if the wire is disconnected and then kill it when connected?

                Shouldn't a kill switch be normally open to run and when you put it to kill position (closed) it grounds the points and shuts off the spark?

                 I'll be glad when Dave resolves this. It's driving me nuts.

Yes without the black and white wire connected to anything, the engine will work, but the kill switch does not work.

Yes if I connect the black and white wire to the positive side of the coil, the kill switch then works.

If I attach the black and white wire to the negative side of the coil, the kill switch does not work.

This confuses me "If the kill switch (closed) on an Enfield provides 12V POS to the coil, how can the engine start if the wire is disconnected and then kill it when connected? "

With the black and white wire connected to the positive side of the coil, the kill switch functions how it is suppose to. As one of my previous answers say. If I disconnect the black and white wire, the bike will run but the kill switch will not work. With my logic, because perhaps with the black and white wire disconnected it has isolated the kill switch circuit? Hence why it doesn't effect normal engine running?

Dave

[Dave1]

Here is a photo. There is a wire which is forked which connects to both sides of the coil.

The colours of the wires are :- black and red goes to - terminal on coil.
                                             red and white goes to + terminal on coil.

Then there is the wire that comes from the points to the - terminal on the coil. I have connected the black and white wire to the + side of the coil.

image upload no limit

[Dave1]

Update, checked the black and white wire a volt meter. There is no electrical current in the black and white wire, when the ignition is switched off and the kill switch is in the not kill position.

When I switch the ignition on, there is no current in the black and white wire. This is with the kill switch in the not kill position.

With the kill switch in the kill position there is a current being sent through the black and white wire. With the ignition switched off.

With the kill switch in the kill position and the ignition turned on there is no current in the black and white wire.

With all these tests out of the way, would this indicate that the black and white wire is in the right place? Being connected to the positive side of the coil?

Update
I've just repeated those tests again. And now I get no reading what so ever from the black and white wire.

[Dave1]

Bare with me folks, I do apologise, but electricity is a very big weakness of mine, it might as well be a black art to me.

I have constantly been going over the tests, because they didn't seem correct. How could I get one set of tests with results  with results from the second set of tests.

So I reconnected the red and white wire to the coil, then conducted the tests again with the black and white wire.

With the ignition key turned on, with the kill switch in the not kill position, there is no current in the black and white wire.

With the ignition key turned on, with the kill switch in the kill position, there is current in the black and white wire.

With the ignition key turned off, and the kill switch in the not kill position, there is no current in the black and white wire.

With the ignition key turned off, and the kill switch in the kill position, there is no current in the black and white wire.

I think going from what you said earlier Arizoni, my kill switch is acting as an on off switch as you described. With the ignition on, and when the kill switch is switched on, its dumping the power to the positive terminal on the coil through the black and white wire.

[tooseevee]

Bare with me folks, I do apologise, but electricity is a very big weakness of mine, it might as well be a black art to me.

I think going from what you said earlier Arizoni, my kill switch is acting as an on off switch as you described. With the ignition on, and when the kill switch is switched on, its dumping the power to the positive terminal on the coil through the black and white wire.

            Yes. Yes. That's what I've been thinking (and hinting at here) all along and because it's just the opposite of the way I think a kill switch should work (grounds out the Neg of the points through the Neg terminal of the coil) I was just very confused.

             The advantage is I can lose that wire at either end (switch or coil) on my shovelhead (and the previous one) and the engine still keeps running.

              It sounds to me like if my kill switch shits the bed on my RE, I lose my 12V Pos to the coil. Good idea. Genius. Oh, well. I still love the bike. If I didn't wanta work on it I wouldn't have bought it       

             What still confuses me is how did the engine start with that wire unconnected as you said in the very beginning? (and then it died when you connected it).

[Dave1]

              What still confuses me is how did the engine start with that wire unconnected as you said in the very beginning? (and then it died when you connected it).

Because when I did that, it was a test. The kill switch was in the kill position, so when I connected the black and white wire to the positive terminal on the coil, it killed the engine. Likewise if I did the same test with the kill switch in the not kill position, and connected the black and white wire to the positive terminal on the coil, it would not kill the engine.

So have I actually wired this the right way? On another forum they are saying it isn't wired the right was like this...?

[tooseevee]

Because when I did that, it was a test. The kill switch was in the kill position, so when I connected the black and white wire to the positive terminal on the coil, it killed the engine.

               But how was the engine RUNNING in the first place without that 12V wire from the kill switch hooked up to the + terminal of the coil?

          I'm thoroughly confused

[Dave1]

               But how was the engine RUNNING in the first place without that 12V wire from the kill switch hooked up to the + terminal of the coil?

          I'm thoroughly confused

I'm no expert, but I will guess that without the black and white wire connected to anything it isolates the kill switch, so no matter what position the kill switch was in kill or not kill, it didn't matter.  Also that the ignition and the amp meter is what passes the flow of current for the dc system ( if I understand well ). So with  the kill switch isolated I guess it was just bypassed.

I suppose that if the black and white wire was a ground, that is probably why the kill switch didn't work. It had nowhere to ground to ( I think when the kill switch is in the kill position it is just grounding to the positive terminal on the coil ), and the rest of the dc system was able to work, because there are other grounds in the system.

I am no expert, and the above could be completely wrong. No doubt an expert will be along to explain hopefully.

Dave

[Arizoni]

Bare with me folks, I do apologise, but electricity is a very big weakness of mine, it might as well be a black art to me.

I have constantly been going over the tests, because they didn't seem correct. How could I get one set of tests with results  with results from the second set of tests.

So I reconnected the red and white wire to the coil, then conducted the tests again with the black and white wire.
Question:  Is this red/white wire powered when the key is on and unpowered when the key is off?

With the ignition key turned on, with the kill switch in the not kill position, there is no current in the black and white wire.

With the ignition key turned on, with the kill switch in the kill position, there is current in the black and white wire.
This seems to indicate you are misinterpreting the Kill Switch position.
It is just an on/off switch.  When it is in the REAL Kill position, no power will travel thru it so the black/white wire should be off.

With the ignition key turned off, and the kill switch in the not kill position, there is no current in the black and white wire.

With the ignition key turned off, and the kill switch in the kill position, there is no current in the black and white wire.
This only confirms the key is providing power to the kill switch like it should.

I think going from what you said earlier Arizoni, my kill switch is acting as an on off switch as you described. With the ignition on, and when the kill switch is switched on, its dumping the power to the positive terminal on the coil through the black and white wire.

I added my comments above in BOLD so they would stand out.

Unlike the kill switch on some motorcycles, the Kill switch DOES NOT ground out the points or anything else. 
It is only an off/on switch to provide power to the + terminal of the coil.

If this were my motorcycle I would disconnect any red/white wires going to the coil and then connect the black/white wire to the Positive coil terminal.

I would then treat the Kill switch as being a backward switch designed to fool would be thieves who would put the Kill switch in the RUN position before trying to start the motorcycle.

[Dave1]

Arizoni, I don't fully understand what you mean here

"With the ignition key turned on, with the kill switch in the kill position, there is current in the black and white wire.
This seems to indicate you are misinterpreting the Kill Switch position.
It is just an on/off switch.  When it is in the REAL Kill position, no power will travel thru it so the black/white wire should be off."

So are you saying? That when the kill switch is in the kill position, there should be no current in the black and white wire? And when the kill switch is in the none kill position ( which allows the engine to run) that there should be current in the black and white wire?

I will do the other test you mention to do on the red and white wire tomorrow, and get back to you tomorrow.

So is the black and red, and black and white wire, wrong on my coil? Or do you only mention swapping that around to fool thieves?

[Dave1]

Right I've just reread all our posts here Arizoni. I think we may have just got our terms crossed.

If I now understand correctly when you say "on" that is when the black and white wire has current in it and stops the engine. That is when I say in the kill position.

Which I guess when you say the REAL kill switch position you mean when the kill switch is not killing the engine, lets the engine run. Therefore killing the switch and not the engine?