Author Topic: Anyone know what these cams are?  (Read 24868 times)

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longstrokeclassic

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Reply #15 on: February 05, 2016, 11:40:59 pm
Dyno run showing the difference between Indian cams and an early set of Price cams. 350 engine, 3rd gear run. Stock cams ran out of breath at 52mph.
Unfortunately I don't have the earlier run conditions which may or may not show them in a more or less favourable light.   



« Last Edit: February 06, 2016, 08:25:58 am by portisheadric »
Never underestimate the value of improved combustion efficiency and reducing parasitic engine and rolling chassis losses.


cafeman

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Reply #16 on: February 05, 2016, 11:45:18 pm
Dyno run showing the difference between Indian cams and an early set of Price cams. 350 engine, 3rd gear run. Stock cams ran out of breath at 52mph.
Unfortunately I don't have the earlier run conditions which may or may show them in a more or less favourable light.   


That's a nice cliff!   :P


longstrokeclassic

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Reply #17 on: February 05, 2016, 11:50:24 pm
Can you spot the difference ?
« Last Edit: February 05, 2016, 11:55:12 pm by portisheadric »
Never underestimate the value of improved combustion efficiency and reducing parasitic engine and rolling chassis losses.


cafeman

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Reply #18 on: February 06, 2016, 04:22:45 am
Nice nose and ramps on the right one. Be interesting to see "all" the specs  ;)


Ice

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Reply #19 on: February 06, 2016, 08:30:46 am
 Base circles appear to be different as well.
No matter where you go, there, you are.


Dave1

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Reply #20 on: February 06, 2016, 10:19:11 am
Thanks portichead ric for the dynograph, through searching I found this a while ago https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/18IS8MBcAoalpOWOmf45hpNSlX-czfCmkZuA7oV0NCzQ/edit , and I taught myself what some of the more basic data means, I think!

If the data is correct, then price r cams should have the bring the power band in nice and low and have good low to mid torgue. But loose out on top end power to the s cams and magnum cams, the magnum cams from what I can see there have the best top end. But we all know when it comes to a performance engine its how well the whole package is designed, and the quality of the build. I think Ace make the best engine package.

I'd still be interested to know Hitchcocks cam data.
« Last Edit: February 06, 2016, 10:32:43 am by Dave1 »


cafeman

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Reply #21 on: February 06, 2016, 12:24:11 pm
Nice find on the spead sheet Dave1, very informative. One thing I find very helpful when comparing cam specs is to print out an image of a degree wheel and then mark out intake and exhaust timing events. Really helps to see "the numbers" and compare the cams along with the cam card info.
« Last Edit: February 06, 2016, 12:58:03 pm by cafeman »


cafeman

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Reply #22 on: February 06, 2016, 12:53:52 pm
Just did a quickie with plotting of the duration and overlap specs for the "R" cams:


ace.cafe

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Reply #23 on: February 06, 2016, 01:32:54 pm
Thanks portichead ric for the dynograph, through searching I found this a while ago https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/18IS8MBcAoalpOWOmf45hpNSlX-czfCmkZuA7oV0NCzQ/edit , and I taught myself what some of the more basic data means, I think!

If the data is correct, then price r cams should have the bring the power band in nice and low and have good low to mid torgue. But loose out on top end power to the s cams and magnum cams, the magnum cams from what I can see there have the best top end. But we all know when it comes to a performance engine its how well the whole package is designed, and the quality of the build. I think Ace make the best engine package.

I'd still be interested to know Hitchcocks cam data.

The most important aspect is the head.
Cams do their job, and are important, but they need a good head.

Also, the R Cams should significantly outperform the S Cams, mostly due to the higher lift. If the S Cams really do close the exhaust valve at 50°ATDC, then that is too late(IMO) for a street bike, and would be expected to lose some low rpm torque from that, compared to the others.

On that spreadsheet, there is an error on the re-phased stock cams entry. It closes inlet at 78°ABDC, not the 27°ABDC shown on the spreadsheet.
And the stock CI cams close inlet at 60°ABDC, not the 45°ABDC shown on the spreadsheet.
I know most of the Hitchcock cam figures too. They are all more racing oriented than what I do, but they do give good peak hp figures. I guess it depends upon rider sensitivity to low rpm torque. He says they ride fine around town. I have received numerous comments by owners who would not agree. At any rate, my cams are milder than his, and are more "torquey" down low due to shorter overlap. We use the better flowing head to get good power results with milder cams.
« Last Edit: February 06, 2016, 02:52:57 pm by ace.cafe »
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Dave1

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Reply #24 on: February 06, 2016, 03:21:49 pm
Thanks for the help Ace, I am soon going to be an Asbo Bullet rider. I have sent a request to the owner of the spread sheet so that I can edit the details and correct them with the details you mentioned.

It's great that you have commented on the Hitchcocks cams, I'm not building a racing bike but a road race machine which can cruise at 80-85mph, so I will probably pick up some R cams.


cafeman

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Reply #25 on: February 06, 2016, 03:50:28 pm
Just like building a great running street v-8 engine, one sure way to build a pig of an engine is too much cam. Glad I fought the urge to run the Hitchcock grinds, I don't spend my time at the dragstrip, or ride straight open roads and do full throttle runs at the top end. Real twisty roads, sweepers, in foothills and mountains where maintaining momentum and the ability to power on at apexes is needed. With my engine build and the rephased cams things are pretty good , but those "r" cams are looking really good.


ace.cafe

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Reply #26 on: February 06, 2016, 04:21:33 pm
Just like building a great running street v-8 engine, one sure way to build a pig of an engine is too much cam. Glad I fought the urge to run the Hitchcock grinds, I don't spend my time at the dragstrip, or ride straight open roads and do full throttle runs at the top end. Real twisty roads, sweepers, in foothills and mountains where maintaining momentum and the ability to power on at apexes is needed. With my engine build and the rephased cams things are pretty good , but those "r" cams are looking really good.
The R Cams are very much like the re-phased cams with extra lift. They lift as high as the stock port supports, which is about .350" lift. Above .350" lift, the stock port flow flattens off (does not increase much).
Same basic design philosophy as the all the Bullet cams that I have participated on. When I want more, I use rockers to get there. I don't use more lift unless the port can make use of it.
« Last Edit: February 06, 2016, 04:26:18 pm by ace.cafe »
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Dave1

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Reply #27 on: February 06, 2016, 05:05:18 pm
So if I had a head which flows better than stock, and was designed to take a carb up to 36mm...Then how would that effect the cams? Would the R cams be a good choice still or would another choice of cam be a better choice?


ace.cafe

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Reply #28 on: February 06, 2016, 09:28:18 pm
So if I had a head which flows better than stock, and was designed to take a carb up to 36mm...Then how would that effect the cams? Would the R cams be a good choice still or would another choice of cam be a better choice?
What displacement?
What port/manifold diameter?
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Dave1

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Reply #29 on: February 06, 2016, 09:44:31 pm
518cc, not sure on the other details, and I am not sure it is fair to guess or put a tuners head details on a forum.