[Ice]

 Looking at the Himalayan from RE's perspective I think they want to sell to the segment of the home market that wants both the cool of the Icon ( Bullet) and a more modern all terrain traveling machine but will buy only one of them.
 Long travel suspension and race wining power levels are fantastic in an SCOE  or ISDE type bike in SCORE or ISDE like conditions but such things are wasted on a machine destined for harsh environment journeys in austere conditions while loaded with requisite gear.

 The trip to Khardung La is not a SCORE/ISDE like ride. Hitting tripples at speed and catching big air are not on the itinerary.

 When considering the IDM cool factor of owning RE, import duties on other bikes and the sheer size and weight of the average 650cc ADV bike I think the Himalayan stands a good chance in India.

 In the US dual sport market I think it will be compared to the KLR ( isn't everything ? ) which will be unfortunate because it is not a direct competitor to the KLR.

 The US bike rags seem to have a penchant for taking things out of context.
 

[Farmer_John]

Actually, this predecessor



Very much like a bigger, broader Skorpion.

[Kevin Mahoney]

The Himalayan will prove to be the beginning a very interesting journey for RE. This is part of the march that Siddartha Lal believes that RE is on...that is a belief that there is little or no competition in the "mid sized" bike market globally and that RE is uniquely qualified to fill this gap. This perceived  lack of product in this segment of the market will require him to double his production to near 1,000,000 units in the near term. A third factory will be built soon to accommodate this. RE still has a waiting list although it is shorter than it was. In a recent interview he said that other bikes that are out out there are "boring" in relation to the RE which is why he will be successful in this segment. His goal is to be the largest manufacturer in the world in this segment. It is a classic case of a niche company expanding into the mass market while trying to maintain the uniqueness that made them successful.
Once you built new factories, add layers of management, add the overhead needed to grow at such a fast rate you have no choice but to "feed the machine" every day with cash so it can sustain itself, which means new models and new markets and increased sustainable sales growth.

His growth has been undeniably phonomenal in the home market and he is betting that the rest of the world will start to purchase RE's at the same rate as India.

A key component is the building of "brand stores" to envelop the customer in the RE lifestyle. The thinking is that by building company owned stores as well as franchised brand stores where the customer will be immersed into the RE lifestyle buttressed by a line of lifestyle clothing etc , sales will take off. Customers will desire to be part of that lifestyle and will buy more product. It has worked well in India. We would recognize this approach in the US when we walk into a Harley store. As we all know it has been very successful for them.

Having said that the GT has not done well in India. I am only an observer but I think it may be due to the fact that there was never a "cafe" culture in India or a lot of the rest of the world and that trying to push customers into one is pretty tough.  I love the bike but many people around the globe don't understand the design and heritage. It does well here and in Europe but the Classics are still a mainstay of sales. For me a Tan C5, a Black B5 and a GT would be the perfect occupants of my garage.

Siddartha believes that the RE brand and heritage is so strong that he can start to branch out into other styles of bikes. Moving beyond the "thump" into a more modern engine is a bigger risk and bigger bet on the part of RE than it may seem. That sound is a very very big part of the appeal of the bike in India. Much money has gone into making the AVL and UCE engine have an acceptable thump. Once the new engine makes it's way into the line up I think the thump will become a non issue.
The OHC was a move toward lower emissions. The more tightly an engine is controlled  - EFI, temperature, valve timing etc. the better you can control the emissions. It was probably inevitable. I question whether this engine will meet increasing standards in India as well as the Western world and if it will be a long term product.
I doubt that we will ever see another pushrod engine from RE. Unfortunately the new engine is low powered by western standards. It has enough power for India but time will tell what the rest of the world thinks. Anyway it will very interesting to watch how it does both in India where the choices are expanding everyday and in the US.

[Otto_Ing]

I doubt that we will ever see another pushrod engine from RE.

Ever tighter emission standards mean we won't soon see any combustion engine at all, not only ohv will disappear. So maybe RE should consider the electric route too...     

[malky]

Perhaps RE are trying not to replicate, Triumph,BSA,Norton etc, by continuing to offer out dated design's. Out of a large group of friends I'm one of the few who has a bike as sole transport. The rest have modern " pleasure bikes" which they change usually in less than 10k miles. From a manufacturers point of view, that's their target consumer. The born again, or midlife crisis " bikers " aspire to Harley's, adventure tourers, or super sports the latter serving the local ambulance service well. The motorcycle press have done an excellent job of propping up the manufacturers who spend vast amounts on advertising,in their rags, and we "buy it" by looking for bigger, faster, shinier, and over equipped bikes. A U.K. publication criticized one of the major Japanese manufacturers on quality issues, resulting in all advertising being pulled. so don't tell me that road tests aren't weighed in favour of the manufacturer. My neighbour, looked at my Enfield and called it an honest bike which is exactly what it is. Some kid's shouted as I was parking in town " look at the old guy on the army bike". They were really interested in it but the went on to tell me that they wanted the latest super sports bike. These kids are the next generation, and if you want to stay in business, then you have to supply what they want.

[Farmer_John]

"They were really interested in it but the went on to tell me that they wanted the latest super sports bike. These kids are the next generation, and if you want to stay in business, then you have to supply what they want."

Do you really think the mothership is capable of producing that?

At this point, I honestly don't.  Their recent acquisitions and hirings aside, Lal's published focus has been based on blowing his production numbers up and a disinterest in producing "modern" motorcycles.

Let's face it, RE has been far more successful with maintaining the british idea of NOT updating, upgrading and developing better products, than the brits were.

But instead of "if it was good enough for our fathers, it will be jolly good enough for our sons" (which KILLED Triumph/BSA/Norton...ROYAL ENFIELD), it just took what RE GAVE them in the 50s and never showed the need/desire/knowledge to further develop the brand into the giant they are now trying to build with moderately updated product (that should have taken place decades ago).

Yes, they're great little bikes and I am a total Royal Enfield fanboy, but I can also see things for what they are.

Without "modern" bikes with engines that sound as exciting as a sewing machine and are wrapped up like a birthday present with quality frames and suspension, then marketed like cigarettes in the 50s...it ain't going to work.  Not on the US anyway.

RE will always be for riders like all of us who call this brand and forum home.

And that won't grow their presence in the US (where if some's enough, more's better), even with some former Harley guy sitting at the helm (and you gotta ask, just why is he a FORMER Harley guy?).

[malky]

I totally agree with everything you say. The direction RE is going, will be an up hill struggle. Let's look at HD, from an honest point of view, in standard form they are slow for their capacity, don't handle well by modern standards, in the U.K. If you run one through the winter there's not much chrome left, and when you buy one new the sales person will tell you, "you need this saddle, and this stage of tuning kit" to make the bike better, but people buy them, why? Image, in the U.K. perhaps heritage in the U.S. RE have gone for the image and heritage thing here with the GT which I think has failed to a degree, because for people of my age, clipons are a no no, and for the younger mob, as there is no cafe bike society, for posing, to them a bike that flat out does less than a modern 600 in second gear is a joke. So clever marketing is  more important than performance. It's just over 20 years since I was given my first Indian bullet, and over the last few years I've got rid of 14 odd bikes and bought a new battle green uce, for two reasons. First and foremost I have an excellent local dealer and second, the bike is easy to live with. I also find it one of the most relaxing bikes to ride long distance. Perhaps the latter is something you begin to appreciate as you get older.

[malky]

Thanks for posting the pick of the TDM engined MZ Farmer John. Can't ever recall seeing one before. I was a big fan of the TS250 supa five. I had one for years as a "shop bike" converted it to 12 volt + electronic ignition, and a Honda CB72 tls front brake.

[Kevin Mahoney]

It is very easy to fall into the belief that because you have a got product in one market other markets will follow. I can personally attest to how different markets are around the globe. Stuff that we sell through NField Gear (soon to be CMW) that sells well in the US we can't give away in other markets.
I am hoping that RE doesn't fall victim to believing their own press clippings and believe that the rest of the world wants what Indians want. All of the marketing in the world can't make a product fit into a culture that "doesn't get it"

[malky]

I would imagine getting Ewan McGregor, or David Beckham to ride an Enfield on a few television program's could work wonders worldwide.

[Otto_Ing]

Won't work in Sweden....truly post heroistic society. 

[malky]

Hmm, I'd better cancel the checks then.

[cafeman]

It is very easy to fall into the belief that because you have a got product in one market other markets will follow. I can personally attest to how different markets are around the globe. Stuff that we sell through NField Gear (soon to be CMW) that sells well in the US we can't give away in other markets.
I am hoping that RE doesn't fall victim to believing their own press clippings and believe that the rest of the world wants what Indians want. All of the marketing in the world can't make a product fit into a culture that "doesn't get it"

All I have to do is look at some of the so called " custom" accessories for Enfields coming out of India as listed on eBay to reaffirm the last two sentences. Somebody "doesn't get it" .....I know I don't!

[dginfw]

Having said that the GT has not done well in India. I am only an observer but I think it may be due to the fact that there was never a "cafe" culture in India or a lot of the rest of the world and that trying to push customers into one is pretty tough.  I love the bike but many people around the globe don't understand the design and heritage.

I am only an outside observer, but I can attest to many GT riders in India complaining (via facebook) about how the engine stumbles and makes noise when they ride around at 2000rpm in top gear.
They still want it to behave and sound like the old iron barrel Bullets they grew up seeing, I guess

[malky]

I found this pair which probably are aimed at the same market as the Himalayan. Both Chinese and 400cc.
Price is proposed to be around the £3500 - £4000
Pic 1 is a WK.
Pic 2 is a Mash.