[Dharmabum]

Hi everyone.
I have had my 2014 C5 chrome 14 months and done just over 4000k.

I ride it occasionally ( will do more) I feel the engine breaking down (poor choice of words but it drops revs and splutters a bit) as I get near the end of the rev range to change up a gear if I change sooner its a smooth ride. Also trying to stay at the limit in a 60k zone I find it wants to be in third with the revs getting up. If I try to sit on 60k in fourth it splutters and is not happy - any thoughts.

[mattsz]

These things seem to appear here in cycles (sorry for the pun!), don't they?

Here's a recent thread with two common possible solutions for your problem:

https://forum.classicmotorworks.com/index.php/topic,22636.msg255801.html#msg255801

[Desi Bike]

Spark Plug fouled?

[pmanaz1973]

I recall reading a past post about the same symptoms and turned out to be a loose spark plug lead.  But you can never rule out the pesky sidestand switch or a internal break in the battery cables.

[dginfw]

60kph equals about 36-37mph which is too low a speed for 4th gear to cruise comfortably...engine is lugging
let it spin in 3rd at that speed.

[krimp]

At about 60kph, you should be shifting into 3rd. At about 80kph, you should be shifting into 4th. At about 100kph, you should be shifting into 5th. Please make note of the word "about". If you live in a fairly flat region, those shift points can be a little lower, but not too much lower. If you live in a mountainous region, you need to stick to those shift points so that you are not lugging the engine while going up hill.

Your engine should be fairly well broken in by now. Don't be afraid to let her spin up a little higher. She can handle it.

[Carlsberg Wordsworth]

hmm, for me,
10mph = 2nd
20mph = 3rd
30mph = 4th
40mph = 5th

sometimes trundle around at 30mph in 5th too.

anyway, fuel starvation at higher rpm? Link takes me to forum index.

[dginfw]

30mph in 5th?  good god, thats bordering on abuse.  lol

[Carlsberg Wordsworth]

haha is it? Not always, though I'll bear it in mind now and drop down a cog or two. revs sound high then though, whatever revs they are.

[dginfw]

at very low revs the engine has little power.  If you are having to keep the throttle open wide to keep it from bucking or stalling you are straining the engine.  It will live longer and happier if you let it rev into the midrange

[Narada]

Lugging any motor is one of the worst things you can do. 

It would be nice to have tachometer for shift points, engine break in, etc...  I've been going by ear for too long with my C5.

The Koso tach / speedo from our host (with white face) is the next thing I am buying. I think it even has light that suggests when to shift. 

If I had it to do over, I would have had one instaled by my dealer during purchase.

[gizzo]

I feel the engine breaking down (poor choice of words but it drops revs and splutters a bit) as I get near the end of the rev range to change up a gear if I change sooner its a smooth ride.

My GT splutters and breaks down at the end of the rev range, too. Because it's bouncing on the rev limiter. Changing up a gear makes mine nice, too.

[Arizoni]

I hear you guys and I don't totally disagree.  One shouldn't lug their engine but IMO riding at 36 mph in 4th gear seems to be very reasonable to me.

More than a few times, I've ridden at 40 mph in 5th gear on my 2011 G5 without harm.
I will say that while doing this, I am not trying to accelerate rapidly.
Just a gradual acceleration or deceleration and the engine is quite happy just putting along enjoying the process.

Remember, these long stroke old British style motorcycles were commonly ridden this way and adding fuel injection hasn't changed them.
The only real difference is we don't have the ignition advance/retard control on our modern motorcycles.

Along that line of thinking, back in the day, "The Motor Cycle" was a British magazine which was greatly looked up to to report the latest in the industry.
The current book "GREAT BRITISH MOTORCYCLES of the 1950s & 1960s" by Bob Currie has reprinted many of the motorcycle tests as they were reported in The Motor Cycle.

In every motorcycle review the important data for the tested motorcycle is included.
Among the things listed for each test is the "MINIMUM NON-SNATCH SPEED", this being the minimum speed the motorcycle could be ridden at without the engine balking and stumbling.

This didn't represent the minimum speed they recommended riding at but it appearently was intended to show just how slowly one could ride without getting into real trouble.

Anyway, I thought you folks would like to know what some of these MINIMUM NON-SNATCH SPEEDS were.

348cc BSA B31 = "14 mph in top gear with ignition fully retarded"

346cc Royal Enfield Bullet = "15-16 mph in top gear with ignition fully retarded"

497cc ARIEL RED HUNTER = "16 mph in top gear with ignition fully retarded"

499cc Velocette MSS = "16 mph in top gear"

692cc Royal Enfield Constellation = "20 mph in top gear on full retard"

998cc Vincent-HRD Black Shadow = "21 mph in top gear"

441cc BSA B44 = "18 mph in top gear"

649cc Triumph Bonneville = "18 mph in top gear"

IMO, riding at slow speeds in top gear will not cause damage unless the rider tryies to accelerate in that gear.  By dropping a gear or two down to prevent lugging under load and then shifting back towards top gear won't hurt a thing.
In fact, I am sure it is better for the engine than reving it to the limit in every gear. 

By the way, you will notice I included the Vincent HRD Black Shadow.
This is just a bit of what "The Motor Cycle" had to say about that motorcycle:

"The machine has all the performance at the top end of the scale of a Senior T.T. mount.  At the opposite end of the range, notwithstanding the combination of a 3.5 to 1 gear ratio, 7.3 to 1 compression ratio and pool quality fuel, it will "chuff" happily in top at 29-30 mph.  Indeed, in top gear without fuss, and with the throttle turned the merest fracton off its closed stop, it will surmount average gradients at 30 mph."

This machine could cruise at 100 mph and hit 125 mph without a problem.

[Narada]

Wow Arazoni, that was interesting.  The operative phrase being lugging "under load".

I must admit I sometimes like to coast along in a higher gear than would be reccomended, but I would definately downshift if I need to accelerate. 

So... don't lug under load, or to where it is straining the engine.  As I remember it is the rod bearing that suffers most from this.

[wildbill]

snatch speed would be of interest to most of the senior members... as for the lugging the bit we would do here I'd say would be very minor compared to what they would get if they were ridden in the home land.
they certainly know how to lugged them!

[Rustygears]

Remember, these bikes are built to haul father, mother, the kids, half a dozen chicken cages on the back and a goat across the fuel tank!  It is NOT a sport bike!
RJ

[suitcasejefferson]

I had a few similar issues with my 2013 B5 when I first bought it. It was the first long stroke single I have ever ridden, plus when they are new the shifting is not that great. I first wished I had a tachometer, but soon learned to ride the beast just fine without one. For just plain riding, with normal acceleration, I usually shift at 20, 30, 40, and 50, mph, then run it up to 60, which is top speed for me. Riding it slow does cause some chain lash, because of the long stroke engine and heavy flywheel. It is not electric motor smooth like a Japanese bike, and not nearly as refined. There may indeed be something wrong with it though, as unfortunately the quality is not nearly as high. I would be willing to pay a pretty penny for a Japanese quality Royal Enfield.

[HUdson51]

I think the best idea is a tach. Does anyone have ideas on one that is not too expensive as I want to install one on my 2015 military ? My Alfa Romeo only has one instrument directly in front of the driver and that is a tach. Alfa engines produce most power above 4000 rpm so it is critical to keep revs. up. The point is a tach. is much more important than a speedo.

[bluesdaddy2]

I think the best idea is a tach. Does anyone have ideas on one that is not too expensive as I want to install one on my 2015 military ? My Alfa Romeo only has one instrument directly in front of the driver and that is a tach. Alfa engines produce most power above 4000 rpm so it is critical to keep revs. up. The point is a tach. is much more important than a speedo.

I installed the Koso TNT Digital Speedo/Tach.  Looks great, works great.  Not exactly cheap, but........   Our host has them here:
http://www.nfieldgear.com/koso-tnt-digital-combination-speedometer-tachometer-for-bullets/

[TomJohnston]

When I first started riding an RE, everyone said put a NGK plug in RIGHT NOW. That solved a lot of problems. I don't see that being mentioned much anymore .

[Rattlebattle]

Whilst the figures quoted by Arizoni are interesting I feel that they need to be taken with a pinch of salt. The sources of Bob Currie's data are the old "Green 'Un" and "Blue 'Un", the weekly bike papers of the fifties. I started riding in 1968, initially on small  mid-sixties Hondas, each of which needed major engine surgery by 14,000 miles or less. At the beginning of the seventies I switched to British bikes, including big singles which were worth practically nothing then as everyone wanted either a British big twin or triple or a Jap multi. I have owned several 50s bikes, all with manual magneto ignition: BSA B32 Goldie, BSA B34, Norton Model 19S and Triumph Tiger 100 (the last still owned). Whilst I have no reason to doubt the figures quoted by Currie, all except the B44 was a fifities bike when in the UK rationing and pool petrol were still around until the middle of the decade and people had to eke out their meagre fuel allowance and/or money to buy fuel. A friend of mine even used to mix parafin with the petrol he put in his AJS single...At that time the bike press (see above) was sychophantic as far as the bike manufacturers were concerned and did not dare upset them, so we had lots of euphemisms like "A little vibration was felt at speed" which really meant "As soon as I opened her up my fillings fell out and I lost one of the silencers". We learned to read between the lines..
By the sixties most of these old sloggers fell into disuse as the Mini and similar small cars replaced the combination and people generally became better off. They were practically worthless (except Goldies and other exotica) in the early seventies but picked up again towards the end of that decade when the classic bike movement started. Certainly nobody I know was interested in how slowly they could go in top gear; we were more interested in the top speed. These figures were academic; I doubt that anyone could have balanced the monobloc carbs on a pre-unit Bonnie well enough to get it to run at 18mph in top. Rumours of specially prepared test bikes were rife. Certainly I wouldn't run my Tiger 100 at such low a speed, even fully retarded, not least because the oiling supply to the bottom end would suffer, as anyone who has owned one and watched the tell tale button go right in at tickover when hot will know. 30 mph is probably the slowest speed in top, but I use the gearbox properly; it's what it's for after all.
Only the sporting singles boasted rev counters (Goldies, Venom Clubman and Thruxtons). Why? Because it was only these that could rev to destruction and were ridden at a fast pace. The cooking singles were geared such that they would not pull at the highest revs; the whole point of them is that they were tuned to deliver great gobs of torque at low revs, to pull a huge sidecar or float. They simply didn't need a rev counter and in my opinion, unless you have a CGT that is tuned to the eyeballs and is constantly revved to the limits, neither does anything with the UCE engine. After an initial "fancy that" on learning what revs the engine is doing at specific road speeds, my guess is that it'll be ignored, since most of the action will happen over a range of less than 3,000 rpm I would imagine, based on the fact that they rev to only 5,500 anyway. I certainly don't need one; I can tell when the engine is lugging and when it is unhappy at high revs. I can't imagine how anyone could lack the sensitivity to do the same. it's not as if the engine is so turbine smooth that you need a rev counter to stop it self-destructing and, anyway, such bikes these days have rev limiters. For my money I'd rather have something more useful, but each to his own. Yer pays yer money and takes yer choice..

[singhg5]

I think the best idea is a tach. Does anyone have ideas on one that is not too expensive as I want to install one on my 2015 military ? My Alfa Romeo only has one instrument directly in front of the driver and that is a tach. Alfa engines produce most power above 4000 rpm so it is critical to keep revs. up. The point is a tach. is much more important than a speedo.

I have a Koso GP Style tachometer on my G5, which also tells me engine temperature. 

http://kosonorthamerica.com/product/gp-style-tachometer-with-temperature/

It also needs a RPM signal filter, a small electric gadget, that Koso supplied me free of cost. They send it if you tell them that you want it for Royal Enfield. Not all bikes need signal filter so they do not send it unless they know that you need it.

I love it because it reads very nice, is small, with background light, gives rpms and temperature of cylinder head - good to know for an air cooled engine.

The TNT Digital model ($239) does NOT measure engine temperature, though it has other functions which are not in the GP Style model ($153).

Here is link of its installation on my G5 -

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3hMnm08CKOU

There are two more videos about this meter under my account, that you can browse through for more information.

[ace.cafe]

When I first started riding an RE, everyone said put a NGK plug in RIGHT NOW. That solved a lot of problems. I don't see that being mentioned much anymore .

I think that most people have now figured out that it needs a power commander, and that fixes things when an aftermarket silencer is fitted.
Most of the flailing around with spark plugs and the like was back before we could get the power commander, and people were desperate to get the bike to behave at idle and low revs, and during overrun.
But an NGK is still a good plug, and I would continue to run one.

[TomJohnston]

Remember ACE......some of us are hardly able to afford a spark plug....and maybe some gasoline.....minimum wage is only a dream for me .

[ace.cafe]

Remember ACE......some of us are hardly able to afford a spark plug....and maybe some gasoline.....minimum wage is only a dream for me .

Okay, then an NGK seems to be better than the Bosch that came in it.
Also I would recommend using the search function to read up on the TPS voltage settings, and probably would stick to the stock silencer.

[HiFi Guy]

Thank you all. My new B5 started running rough and sputtering last night. I rode it tonight and it seemed even worse.

So, I took the advice in this thread and removed the side stand switch. Out of three bikes I've owned, both of my British designed bikes had dodgy side stand switches.

After removing the switch, it runs better than ever.

You guys rock!

[JoeSchmofo]

The point is a tach. is much more important than a speedo.

Not with 9 points on your licence, it's not.

(notice. the above mentioned 9 points were not obtained by hooning around on a motorcycle, they were all obtained in an elderly Ford Zephyr)

[Rattlebattle]

Out of three bikes I've owned, both of my British designed bikes had dodgy side stand switches.

After removing the switch, it runs better than ever.

You guys rock!

Maybe that's because a lot of we Brits believe in the individual being responsible enough to carry out pre-ride checks, so we don't see the need for cut-out switches, or lights you can't turn off either. Just saying.

[dginfw]

Maybe that's because a lot of we Brits believe in the individual being responsible enough to carry out pre-ride checks, so we don't see the need for cut-out switches, or lights you can't turn off either. Just saying.

Some of us 'yanks' still feel that way, unfortunately the ones running this place seem to think they know better

[Dharmabum]

Thanks for all the feedback people I really appreciate your views.  It turned out to be the dreaded battery connection - the negative was cracked through, I replaced this and its all good - purring like a kitten and feels so nice.

[tooseevee]

Maybe that's because a lot of we Brits believe in the individual being responsible enough to carry out pre-ride checks, so we don't see the need for cut-out switches, or lights you can't turn off either. Just saying.

             A lot of US illiterate Americans feel that way also. We, too, don't like lights we can't turn off when we want them off or side stands that kill our engines at random times. It's our safety-nanny, over-reaching government that does that, not the riders.

[no bs]

and we still have our guns!

[Narada]

Some of us even pay attention, and use common sense all by ourselves!

[Ice]

Some of us even pay attention, and use common sense all by ourselves!

Not so loud.

 Some of our bosses think we possess some sort of super hero power.
 

[wildbill]

I wouldn't worry about it too much - those fuck wit Australians are much worse with the insults...

[Craig McClure]

I think the best idea is a tach. Does anyone have ideas on one that is not too expensive as I want to install one on my 2015 military ? My Alfa Romeo only has one instrument directly in front of the driver and that is a tach. Alfa engines produce most power above 4000 rpm so it is critical to keep revs. up. The point is a tach. is much more important than a speedo.

A speedo is required to keep from getting expensive speeding tickets. a Tach is unnecessary for riders with normal hearing.

[The Old Coot]

Hey Bill I've been to Oz once, almost ended up in jail. They ask if I had any thing to declare when I got off the plane guns, drugs, boozed or felonies. They seem insulted when I answered no guns, drugs or booze and I didn't think a felony was required to get in anymore.