[Dave1]

Now I know there has been many debates on this, and everyone has there own idea on oils.

But I have been reading up on what makes a good oil, from reading and researching what the scientific data provided about and oil actually means.

I have found what I think to be a holy grail of oil, but it is a little high for my liking on the zinc count 1400ppm.

It is also a 20w60 engine oil, is the fact it is a 20w60 engine oil going to hurt my engine or decrease its performance?

The engine oil I'm talking about is Penrite Shelsley Light 20w60.

Specification
Characteristics   Penrite Shelsley Light
SAE Viscosity   20W-60
Viscosity Index (VI)   137
Performance Level   API: SC / CC
Zinc as ZDDP   1400
Base Oil Group   Grp II
Detergent-Dispersant Package         Low
Other   Includes corrosion protection & tackiness
additive for lay-up periods

Most 20w50 engine oils have a lower and sometimes much lower VI, and are usually only group I base oil.

[ace.cafe]

The 60 part is very heavy. Heavier than necessary.
That said, you can use it, but I would only use it in the hottest summer months. Thick oil can be dangerous to the oil pumping system on these bikes.

So it's your call,  but be careful.
 

[Dave1]

Cheers Ace, if its dangerous then I wont use it. Most other oils I've looked at are only group I base oil, have lower VI, some have lower TBN, have a worst pour point. Some have bad viscosity at 100c and aren't true 20w50 oils, because they have a viscosity below 20cst at 100c. Brand name and price is no guarantee at all.

[Dave1]

Out of interest Ace I've read information that said zinc ZDDP levels of 1000-1200ppm are optimal. That High levels of ZDDP can harm the engine.

What would you consider high levels of ZDDP? I have found some fantastic specification mineral oils, but I am put off by what to me looks to be too high a ZDDP content. One of them having a ZDDP levels as high as 1610ppm.

Would that be to high? and harm the engine?

[Kevin Mahoney]

Three words - don't do it

[ace.cafe]

Out of interest Ace I've read information that said zinc ZDDP levels of 1000-1200ppm are optimal. That High levels of ZDDP can harm the engine.

What would you consider high levels of ZDDP? I have found some fantastic specification mineral oils, but I am put off by what to me looks to be too high a ZDDP content. One of them having a ZDDP levels as high as 1610ppm.

Would that be to high? and harm the engine?

1200 ppm is enough, and even 1000 ppm is okay. I can't say what the point of possible damage is. I would personally use 1200 as a ceiling.

Look for a 20w-50 oil withe 1100 ppm zddp, and it should be fine.

[Ice]

1600 ppm is what we used to have. 1200 is ok 1000 is the bare bones minimum.

 As far as doping the oil with ZDDP additives I refuse to do it.

 The additives makers and the oil makers do not publish their formula complete chemistry.
 This we need to know in order to predict if the ZDDP dope from maker A and the detergents and additives package blended into in the motor oil from brand B will or will be compatible, tolerable or incompatible when the two products are combined.

[Dave1]

Thanks for joining the conversation Ice, how do you know 1600ppm is what we used to have? Is there any evidence? In 20w50 oils, you can get as low as 800 ZDDP through to 1610 ZDDP, and I'd say the average is 1300-1400 ZDDP.

But given what I have read about Base oil groups.. A group 2 base oil has far better lubrication properties on start up and when the engine is warming compared to a group 1 base oil group. And 70% of engine wear occurs on start up..

So my priority now, is a oil with a base oil group of 2, and a ZDDP of around 1100-1200ppm ( unless Ice, you can prove with evidence that ZDDP levels upto 1600ppm is fine ), I'm not going to place so much importance on VI, as I don't believe there really is that much difference between 126-131 for example..

[Ice]

 My apologies for posting unsolicited in you oil thread.  The answers to your questions will be found in Shell and Mobil technical publications distributed to commercial industrial and municipal fleet maintenance mangers in 1973.

[REpozer]

I live in a cooler climate, so I use any brand 15w-40 diesel motor oil, has all the ZDDP I need.
 Also I've  been using it in my 190cc Briggs&Straton Quantum push mower, plus my Tecumseh Snow King engine on my Snapper snow blower. 
Or you can use an oil additive. In the States,  a product called STP oil treatment contains ZDDP. Add as needed.
 
If you loose sleep at night ,follow your oil dreams.
Good Luck.
May the  cooling , cleaning, cushioning, lubing force be with you!   

[Dave1]

No need to apologise Ice, it's just I like science If I can read those sources you mentioned and it states 1600ZDDP is safe then I can get oil with better specification still!

Oh I'm not loosing sleep REpozer, it's just some petrol heads have those things they go over out of interest, like the best oil, best rubber, or best fuel..For me it mainly oil!

Yeah we get STP this side of the pond as well.

The only oil manufacturer I know of that uses group 2 base oil in 20w50 is Penrite . Does anybody else know of another manufacturer that does?

[ace.cafe]

I looked up Group 2 base oil on Google yesterday,  and found a site that gave definitions, and stated that Group 2 base oils are becoming so common now that more oils are now Group 2 than Group 1. I'd guess you could find more Group 2 oils if you search.
Most members here are probably using Group 4.

[Dave1]

Then you have probably read the some of the same information as me, Ace. If you look on this website http://www.classic-oils.net/Oils-by-Application-and-Type/Four-Stroke-Engine-Oils/Classic-20W50-Multigrades-Mineral-base , it tells you the groups for the oils...Most Of the popular oils used, some of which I've seen mentioned here before are group 1. The only group 2 mineral oil in 20w50 I am aware of is Penrite, which is why I asked. I should of made it clear I was talking about mineral oils..The reason why I wont use synthetics in this bike below.

So if they are using group 4 then they prefer synthetics..I have already tried a groups 4 POA ester synthetic in my bike...And that was the worst time ever for oil being vented to atmosphere from my breather set up. Which is clear hose going up steeply , and being directed to the rear ending by my number plate, with a crank vent fitted.. As soon as I went back to good old fashioned dino juice problem solved..As was recommended by a local classic motorcycle mechanic that had seen the same in Triumphs breather system..Same results there too, back to dino, no problem. He also went on to say, you usually see a trend arise that classic bikes that use synthetic oil tend to leak more than there counter parts with dino..Plus a lot of the synthetics don't have ZDDP or very little...No thanks. To meet modern API standards.

[ace.cafe]

What piston/rings are you using, and what  piston to cylinder wall clearance and ring gaps?

Also, oil ejection from the breather can often be mitigated by routing the breather hose up high right behind the engine, to act as a stand-pipe that allows oil to run back down, but allows vapors to continue out the vent.

I am not familiar with your overall build, so please forgive any incorrect assumptions.
 

[Dave1]

Its either the stock piston or a high comp, but its running at 135psi cold compression tested. I would have to look, but this bike does run very well, I am not inclined to think there is a problem. There is no piston slap.

The thing is this bike already has had some custom work done to it, before I bought it. The piston in the bike has a slight dome, with valve cut outs. The schematics show a flat top piston with no cut outs. I've been told that you can't fully trust the schematics. After this bike is dialed in on a dyno, and I've ridden it for a bit to confirm all is well. I am taking the top end off to confirm what piston it actually has, and to see if it is running a steel con-rod or maybe even an alpha bearings racing crank ( hitchcocks ). Saving money now, if the bottom end needs doing then that will be done, if not well I will get to work on the top end!

The set up on my breather, is more or less what you described some time ago on these forums, which is what I did, if I remember correctly, it may of even had photos to illustrate what you said.

My bike is currently located at the dyno, to have fine tuning to the carb, and have its mot. When it gets back, I'll take some photos.