Author Topic: TM32 advice for a dyno run?  (Read 19524 times)

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Dave1

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on: September 29, 2015, 05:46:22 pm
Hello guys,

I am gradually as time goes by very close to finally getting my RE back on the road. My RE is not Taxed, Insured, or Mot'ed. Which means I can't ride it on the road, so I can't do the required plug chops. So I am sending it to a dyno to have the final set up of the carb done there, and also Mot'ed at the same place. Otherwise I would have done the plug chop method.

What I need to know is, what is the optimum air/fuel ratio for the air cooled engine of a 2004 RE500 Bullet 65?  I thought it was 10:1? I'm not 100% sure?

Also what jets do you think I shall need to cover the changes? I have main jets 180,185, 190,200. I have pilot jets 25, 27.5, 30. I have needle jets P4, P6. 

My bike has  Mikuni TM32 card, K&N small pod filter, 1950's high trials exhaust, compression of 135psi. Elevation at sea level.

Is there any general advice you guys would give me to advise the dyno guys?
« Last Edit: September 29, 2015, 07:14:52 pm by Dave1 »


Guaire

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Reply #1 on: September 29, 2015, 10:29:56 pm
Check these specs on a search:

$133 for a TM32 sounds pretty good! I think the stock TM32s come with 260 mains and 50 pilot.

I think for 500cc RE you will need the following Jet Specs for TM32

MAIN JET 4/042-Size 190 or 200
PILOT JET VM22/210-Size 27.5 or 30
NEEDLE JET 785-24001-Size (389) Q-2 (Stock, comes with the carb)
JET NEEDLE 5FP17 Clip groove #3 (Stock, comes with the carb)
STARTER JET VM17/1002-Size 60 (Stock, comes with the carb)


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Dave1

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Reply #2 on: September 30, 2015, 11:12:19 am
Thanks for replying.
I was under the impression from previous searches here. That I should be around the 185 mark for main jet. I was also under the impression from the same search. That I should use a p 4 or p 6 needle jet.

The only thing I may do is get a 195 and 210 to compliment the jets i already have. If you search tm32 your see my history with this carb.

The main objective of the post was to find out the A/F ratio? So I can tell the dyno guys. Ace? Anyone else have any ideas?


ace.cafe

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Reply #3 on: September 30, 2015, 01:54:03 pm
I think you could start with a 190 main, P6 needle jet,  and 30 pilot.

Probably around 12:1 AFR is where it will like it. A Fireball would like a little leaner, but a stock Bullet would like it on the richer side.

Remember that the jetting must change with seasonal temperature changes.
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Dave1

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Reply #4 on: September 30, 2015, 04:44:34 pm
Thanks Ace,

Yes i understand about the seasonal jet changes. My bikes pilot system was ok. But now even when rev'ed up after the engine has been warmed, it will only rev properly with the choke on. It wont rev properly with the choke off, and will cut out at idel even. So the pilot is currently lean. Going to sort that tonight, one less thing for the dyno guys to sort out.


ace.cafe

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Reply #5 on: September 30, 2015, 06:19:01 pm
The K&N small pod filter is not the greatest idea for use on that carb.
That could be part of the problem.

Also, be sure that the fuel is fresh and free of water, not only in the tank, but in the float bowl. Double check everywhere for any air leaks in the inlet tract, and also for any exhaust leaks. No sense dyno tuning the bike if it has a leak.
Your issue does have a certain sound like it could be water in the fuel.
« Last Edit: September 30, 2015, 06:23:09 pm by ace.cafe »
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Dave1

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Reply #6 on: September 30, 2015, 08:22:46 pm
Will drain the fuel again tomorrow from both. Going to take the carb apart to see what jets are currently in there. Already checked for air leaks a while back, the exhaust shouldn't be leaking sealed with copper silicone sealant.

I will check it all again.

Edit, Ace my bike has been started up on a fairly regular basis, It has been kept in dry storage, so unless condensation has built up in the tank, I'd struggle to see how water would effect it?

But alas I will check
« Last Edit: September 30, 2015, 08:46:18 pm by Dave1 »


ace.cafe

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Reply #7 on: September 30, 2015, 09:12:19 pm
Will drain the fuel again tomorrow from both. Going to take the carb apart to see what jets are currently in there. Already checked for air leaks a while back, the exhaust shouldn't be leaking sealed with copper silicone sealant.

I will check it all again.

Edit, Ace my bike has been started up on a fairly regular basis, It has been kept in dry storage, so unless condensation has built up in the tank, I'd struggle to see how water would effect it?

But alas I will check
Water condenses out of the air into the fuel. Particularly on humid days with some temp drops below the dew point. The heavier water then sinks to the bottom of the tank, and goes right out the petcock as soon as you open it up to start the bike,  and then goes right into the float bowl. It takes up the room in the float bowl that should have fuel in it, causing fueling problems that act like you are experiencing.  The tank is vented to the atmosphere,  so humidity cannot be prevented from entering.  This is a very common issue.

It may not be the problem, but you should have all bases covered before going to the dyno.
« Last Edit: September 30, 2015, 09:35:46 pm by ace.cafe »
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Dave1

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Reply #8 on: October 01, 2015, 10:31:26 am
Thanks Ace, for your help, I wish I could of used one of your Ace air filters, but it wont fit with my exhaust system...Other wise I would have done.

The Exhaust had an ever so slight leak, which has now hopefully been cured, I smudged some more copper silicone sealant over the small hole/leak coming from where the exhaust silencer and down pipe join.

I turned in the pilot mixture screw by 1/4 of a turn, and now the bike is running champion again. So I guess it is just seasonal weather change, altered my mixture requirement.

Checked for air leaks, I have no problem to report there.

I am going to drain the fuel and put fresh fuel in for the dyno run, and run the bike until it stops to drain the float bowl, then put fresh fuel in.


tooseevee

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Reply #9 on: October 01, 2015, 04:50:07 pm

I am going to drain the fuel and put fresh fuel in for the dyno run, and run the bike until it stops to drain the float bowl, then put fresh fuel in.

            Remember to pull the drain plug, too, or there'll still be crap in the bottom.
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Dave1

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Reply #10 on: October 24, 2015, 02:28:35 pm
Hi chaps could do with your help.
Got the bike back from the dyno motorcycle shop today.
The settings are :-
Pilot jet size 45 3/8 turn out.
needle jet P4
needle clip 2 ( in the lean direction )
slide 4
main jet 185.

The bike to me is indicating rich. Sometimes it misfires through the exhaust. It is slightly hesitant when I open the throttle. If I am sat waiting for traffic lights to change or at a junction stopped on the bike waiting to go. The bike will idle ok, but when I open the throttle before even moving it cuts out. Sometimes it will sound like it is going to cut out, but then seem to pick up and be fine( when I am opening the throttle ).

The dyno charts say that at tickover the A/F is a consistant 14/1. Which doesn't make sense? As that is good to slightly on the lean side.


Dave1

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Reply #11 on: October 24, 2015, 02:56:59 pm
Here are the dyno charts.

The first Dyno chart shows the A/F and torgue. Weirdly the torgue is in the A/F graph. It is the light blue line. The graph shows a maximum of 47.69 ft-lbs.

Graph two shows Hp,speed, AF graph. It achieves 19.78 hp.

Graph three shows AF at full throttle, tick over, and normal acceloration. At normal acceloration is show an af of 13 to 13.5. Tick over goes between 14 to 15.5. Full throttle starts at about 14.2 and goes down to 12.

Hope these graphs helps you with my problems guys. I am no expert, I am a layman reading these graphs. Any advice you can see from reading the graphs most appreciated.


ace.cafe

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Reply #12 on: October 24, 2015, 03:36:45 pm
30 pilot.
If it won't run right on a 30 pilot, something is wrong. There are at least 50 Bullets that I personally know about using TM32 with 30 pilots, and they run right.
45 pilot is out in the weeds somewhere.
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Dave1

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Reply #13 on: October 24, 2015, 03:45:28 pm
I told him the 30 pilot or 27.5 is what most folks use. I told him all the advice you've ever given me Ace. Apparently the guy who worked on my bike said the 30 pilot is too lean. He also said a 32.5 was to lean. He somehow ended up at 45...Which I once told him again my concerns that no one has ever used a jet that size. I suggested that are they sure there is something else not wrong? They said, my bike is running a straight through exhaust, with no baffles, and no back pressure. That is why the bigger pilot jet is needed? My bike has an off road trials competition exhaust. Which is straight through.

I have just been trying to set the tick over better. If I screw the air screw out, the bike spits back through the exhaust, and wont idle. But that should be leaning the mixture out? So should stop the spitting through the exhaust? The bike will only run with the air screw turned between 3/4 and 1 turn out.

I'm thinking to try a smaller pilot jet, what do you think? But that would lean it out, and going of the above paragraph would make it worse, and back fire through the exhaust even worse. I think I am going to plug chop it at idle, do it the old fashioned way.

Also Ace what do you think of the dyno charts and the performance?
« Last Edit: October 24, 2015, 03:52:44 pm by Dave1 »


ace.cafe

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Reply #14 on: October 24, 2015, 04:01:18 pm
Something is wrong.
Maybe something is plugged in the carby, or air leak, or something.

The charts look strange to me, possibly because of the way the graph increments are numbered.
Anyway, the peak numbers sound about as expected.

Something funny is going on, but I don't know exactly what it is.
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