[tooseevee]

     I discovered a noise today just by accident that concerns me a little.

      2008 AVL Classic. 1,091 miles since bought brand new in December 2010 (Left-over, zero miles, perfect). No off-road, no bad roads, no potholes worth mentioning. i weight 140 pounds.

       Today on the center stand, sitting on it, for some reason I pulled up on the handlebars sharply. Really jerked them up hard, let it down and did it again.

        I got a very clear metal-to-metal sounding clank sound. This is the first time I have ever heard this sound. I've heard no sounds from the front end at all - ever and the front end is tight on the road, solid as a rock, never a wobble, never a wiggle, never a sound, tracks like a slot car.

         Oh, shit. I, personally, have a very bad neck, but now do I have a bad neck on the bike. It's so good on the road and I've never heard this noise on the road, that I can't believe it's something drastic. I Reeely reeely don't wanta have to take the neck apart. I work alone, I'm F-ed up joint painwise and have only done harleys.

        Maybe I'll just forget I ever heard it     

[ace.cafe]

They are just ball bearings in there.
Sometimes it can be just as easy as a little tightening of that big nut on your casquette. Tight enough, no binding.
 

[tooseevee]

They are just ball bearings in there.
Sometimes it can be just as easy as a little tightening of that big nut on your casquette. Tight enough, no binding.
 

            Just cop a feel on the big nut for a start? As simple as that?

             And you would not hear or feel that on the road at all, I guess?  It would have to be just the right type of bumpy road to hear it, I suppose.

[Arizoni]

The UCE manual says to adjust the tension on the front steering head bearings, first, with the motorcycle on the center stand, jack up the front of the frame to unload the weight on the front wheel.
Then, loosen the two lower bolts that clamp the fork tubes at the bottom of the steering yoke.

Then, tighten the large steering head nut (the big chrome one) to 70-80 Nm (52-59 lb/ft).

Loosen the big steering head nut and re-tighten to 2-4 Nm (1.5-3.0 lb/ft, 18-36 Lb/inch).

Re-tighten the fork tube clamp bolts/nuts to 33Nm (24 lb/ft).

That should seat the balls and reset the pre-load on the steering head.

[tooseevee]

The UCE manual says to adjust the tension on the front steering head bearings, first, with the motorcycle on the center stand, jack up the front of the frame to unload the weight on the front wheel.
Then, loosen the two lower bolts that clamp the fork tubes at the bottom of the steering yoke.

Then, tighten the large steering head nut (the big chrome one) to 70-80 Nm (52-59 lb/ft).

Loosen the big steering head nut and re-tighten to 2-4 Nm (1.5-3.0 lb/ft, 18-36 Lb/inch).

Re-tighten the fork tube clamp bolts/nuts to 33Nm (24 lb/ft).

That should seat the balls and reset the pre-load on the steering head.

             So we're very sure that this can be the only source of that clunk - right?

              Because I just went down and the big nut is VERY nice and tight already (30mm 3/4" drive socket with a breaker bar). That means it's NOT right relative to the two fork tube clamp bolts so I'll delve into that tomorrow morning.

              The front wheel is very free on the center stand and I don't get the clunk noise by jerking up OR forward on the front wheel. Only by jerking up on the handlebars.

               Thanks a lot to both you and Ace. Seems a simple fix. I have no torque ability for that large nut. I think I can feel it OK.

                PS: Always keep your balls seated     

[tooseevee]

    OK - I went back down there and it's all clear now. Those two lower flange bolts are the ones that hold the RE logo under the headlight. Duh 
     I can't go down again - too many times today.
      Thanks again, guys.

[tooseevee]

The UCE manual says to adjust the tension on the front steering head bearings, first, with the motorcycle on the center stand, jack up the front of the frame to unload the weight on the front wheel.
Then, loosen the two lower bolts that clamp the fork tubes at the bottom of the steering yoke.

Then, tighten the large steering head nut (the big chrome one) to 70-80 Nm (52-59 lb/ft).

Loosen the big steering head nut and re-tighten to 2-4 Nm (1.5-3.0 lb/ft, 18-36 Lb/inch).

Re-tighten the fork tube clamp bolts/nuts to 33Nm (24 lb/ft).

That should seat the balls and reset the pre-load on the steering head.

             No one has mentioned the 8mm steering stem lock bolt that the AVL has (I don't know about the UCE). Looking forward it's right under the handlebar bracket. That stem ain't gonna move up or down without that bolt being loosened.

             I've got everything together and will attack it later. It's 90 degrees here right now and like a steam bath.

             PS: Why do you need to loosen the fork clamps? (The two bolts that hold the RE logo under the headlight).  You're not moving the forks when tightening the stem. Are you? 

[ace.cafe]

             No one has mentioned the 8mm steering stem lock bolt that the AVL has (I don't know about the UCE). Looking forward it's right under the handlebar bracket. That stem ain't gonna move up or down without that bolt being loosened.

             I've got everything together and will attack it later. It's 90 degrees here right now and like a steam bath.

             PS: Why do you need to loosen the fork clamps? (The two bolts that hold the RE logo under the headlight).  You're not moving the forks when tightening the stem. Are you?

If the bike has the casquette, the forks can't move up, because they are threaded into the casquette, and so the casquette cannot move down with the big nut. The upper bearing race is pressed into the casquette. So, if it needs much movement to tighten the bearing, you would have to loosen the lower fork clamps to allow the bottom race to move upward.

Most of the time, a little tightening is all that's necessary, and i don't usually bother with the fork clamp bolts. But if it needs any significant tightening, it would be best to loosen the lower fork clamp bolts.

[Arizoni]

The way the Service Manual talks, that big Allen bolt under the handlebar bracket does not have to be loosened to adjust the preload on the steering head ball bearings.

If you were removing the whole steering head you would take out that big bolt to remove the casquette.

Like Ace says, the upper bearing is pressed into the casquette.

Think of it this way:
You are really raising the lower steering yoke and its bearing upward towards the casquette when you tighten that big nut.

Because the lower yoke needs to move upward towards the casquette, the bolts that are clamping the fork tubes to the lower yoke need to be loosened.  If they are not, it can't move upward as that big nut is tightened.

[tooseevee]

     Some time during a long night I searched back and found where I got this Allen Head Lock Bolt idea. It was from singhg5 on Tech Tips in October 2014. He wasn't sure at that time, but he thought it was a lock bolt.

      Then I dug out my Snidal and Pete also says it's a lock bolt in his 2006 Manual (Page 118).

       It's NOT.

        I went down this morning and adjusted it by the book from all the info I've gleaned from here and other places.

        Bike on center stand. Weight off front wheel, wheel just barely kissing the floor.
        Back off lower flange pinch bolt nuts. Loosen pinch bolts.
        Just break Big Nut loose then tighten to 55 pounds.
        Break loose and retorque to 3 pounds.
        Tighten lower flange pinch bolts.

        I did this twice and still had "The Clunk" when I jerk up on the bars with the front brake on.

         So I did it all AGAIN and left the Big Nut at 55 pounds.

          I still have smooth turning side to side with no bad sounds or resistance AND I still have "The Clunk".

          I'm ready to just forget it because I cannot get ANY hint of noise, no matter what I do, with the bike on the ground.

          Should I try to get to 80 pounds or something else ridiculous.

          Am I the only one out here with an AVL with a clunk? Am I the only one who's ever even honked on their bars to "see" if there's a clunk? Am I the only one who's ever done this? I feel like Mr. Jones (...something is happening here, but....).

           It's like working in a steam bath here today.

[Lane]

     Some time during a long night I searched back and found where I got this Allen Head Lock Bolt idea. It was from singhg5 on Tech Tips in October 2014. He wasn't sure at that time, but he thought it was a lock bolt.

      Then I dug out my Snidal and Pete also says it's a lock bolt in his 2006 Manual (Page 118).

       It's NOT.

        I went down this morning and adjusted it by the book from all the info I've gleaned from here and other places.

        Bike on center stand. Weight off front wheel, wheel just barely kissing the floor.
        Back off lower flange pinch bolt nuts. Loosen pinch bolts.
        Just break Big Nut loose then tighten to 55 pounds.
        Break loose and retorque to 3 pounds.
        Tighten lower flange pinch bolts.

        I did this twice and still had "The Clunk" when I jerk up on the bars with the front brake on.

         So I did it all AGAIN and left the Big Nut at 55 pounds.

          I still have smooth turning side to side with no bad sounds or resistance AND I still have "The Clunk".

          I'm ready to just forget it because I cannot get ANY hint of noise, no matter what I do, with the bike on the ground.

          Should I try to get to 80 pounds or something else ridiculous.

          Am I the only one out here with an AVL with a clunk? Am I the only one who's ever even honked on their bars to "see" if there's a clunk? Am I the only one who's ever done this? I feel like Mr. Jones (...something is happening here, but....).

           It's like working in a steam bath here today.

Mine has a clunk when i push / pull on the bars but i always thought it was the forks coming back to full stop after the slight compression that occurred. Much harder to make the noise when not on the center stand cause all weight off the front forks except when tilted to the front, of course, but then only a little. Everything else about the steering seems tight so i never worried about it.

Could it be something like that?  1000+ miles seems like everything would be practically brand new.

Good Luck and let us know!

[tooseevee]

Mine has a clunk when i push / pull on the bars but i always thought it was the forks coming back to full stop after the slight compression that occurred. Much harder to make the noise when not on the center stand cause all weight off the front forks except when tilted to the front, of course, but then only a little. Everything else about the steering seems tight so i never worried about it.
Could it be something like that?  1000+ miles seems like everything would be practically brand new.
Good Luck and let us know!

           Yes, the bike is literally brand new. I got it (an '08) as a brand new, never ridden, never sold, never registered left-over in December 2010 from the lawyers of an out-of-business dealer. And they've been very easy miles. Not babied, but not beat either.

            I had SWMBO listen with a tube in her ear. The sound is definitely inside the steering head. It is not coming from anywhere along the length of either fork tube.

            I'm gonna ride it later when the sun gets lower (it's unbearable here right now). On the ground the feel is perfect at 55 pounds torque on the big nut. I just don't get it. Seems like I should be feeling some drag. And the preset is supposed to be tight at that torque   but I still have a clunk.

[Arizoni]

I suggest, since the clunk didn't go away, you should return the final nut torque to about 3 lbs/ft.

Your present 55 lb/ft torque is pre-loading the ball bearings to around 3,700 pounds of axial force.  The raceways aren't designed to operate at that high load.

Riding the motorcycle with this high of pre-load could cause the balls to brinnel (indent) the raceways which will lead to poor steering over time.

[tooseevee]

I suggest, since the clunk didn't go away, you should return the final nut torque to about 3 lbs/ft.

Your present 55 lb/ft torque is pre-loading the ball bearings to around 3,700 pounds of axial force.  The raceways aren't designed to operate at that high load.

Riding the motorcycle with this high of pre-load could cause the balls to brinnel (indent) the raceways which will lead to poor steering over time.

            (I never did ride; it was just too damn uncomfortable - steamy hot - then it poured rain).

            If I have such a huge pre-load (55 pounds) on the balls and races, where is the clunk being produced? If the balls are squeezed that tight, what's producing the clunk?

             Why don't I feel the slightest drag or tiny bit of resistance? Should I try 80 pounds?

              Do you think the lower pinch flanges might not be letting go even though the bolts are unscrewed?  not allowing the slack to be taken up in the bearings even at 55 pounds leaving me still with the clunk no matter how many times I do the 55 pounds? 
         
               And how can the balls be squeezed so hard (as you say they are) and there still be a clunk? Isn't the clunk produced by the balls and races slamming together? And there shouldn't be any slack between the balls and races at 55 pounds - correct?

                I'm confused and about to just go put the big nut back to 3 or 4 pounds and forget the whole thing and just ride the bike.

[High On Octane]

At 55ftpd I'm surprised it still turns.  What exactly are you doing typ produce the click while it's on the center stand?  To me it almost sounds the forks are making the noise, not the steering stem.

[Arizoni]

If the sound is still there with the balls loaded with over a 3000 pound force on them, the balls and steering head are not the source of the sound.
That's why I suggest you return the load on the big nut to the factory suggested sitting.  If the "clunk" is still sounding the same as it did with the high load, it is something else that's making the noise.

If the motorcycle was mine, I would make sure the torque was at 3 lb/ft and as long as there was no strange handling problems, I'd forget it.

Just attribute it to one more Royal Enfield mystery that adds character to the bike.

[tooseevee]

At 55ftpd I'm surprised it still turns.  What exactly are you doing typ produce the click while it's on the center stand?  To me it almost sounds the forks are making the noise, not the steering stem.

          If you reread the whole thread you'll see I asked the same question. It turns freely with no sounds, grinding or binding. And there's no looseness at all felt when it's off the center stand.

           If you read the whole thread, I've already described EXACTLY how the clunk is produced a number of times.

           It's NOT the forks. I've already written about my wife listening everywhere very carefully and many times with a tube in her ear (and she's no dummy). The sound is coming from nowhere in the forks. It is inside the steering head.     

             

[tooseevee]

If the sound is still there with the balls loaded with over a 3000 pound force on them, the balls and steering head are not the source of the sound.
If the "clunk" is still sounding the same as it did with the high load, it is something else that's making the noise.

           You keep ignoring the fact that we listened with a tube in the ear very carefully and many times up and down and back and forth on every piece of metal in the front end while making the clunk. The clunk is INSIDE the steering head.

            I'm still thinking that for some reason the slack is NOT being taken up when I torque the big nut to 55 even though I've slacked the lower flange pinch bolts WAY off every time.

            There's just no other rational explanation for the fact that at 55 pounds the steering is totally free, no resistance, no grinding, no sound at all and yet the clunk (slack) is still there when jerking up on the handlebars on the center stand. 

             I'm gonna back off the big nut later and crank it to 3 pounds and ride the bike. I am NOT tearing the front end apart. The bike has been fine on the road for over a 1,000 miles.

[Arizoni]

OK.
I know the way the "book" talks the big Allen head bolt  isn't supposed to have anything to do with adjusting the pre-load on the bearings but try backing it off a bit and then apply the 55 lb/ft torque.
Tighten it back up and then try your pulling on the handlebars.

It might be that something in that area has some clearance that's making the noise.

After retightening the Allen head bolt, reduce the torque on the steering head bearings to 3 lb/ft and give it a try.
Hopefully, your clunk will be gone.

[tooseevee]

OK.
I know the way the "book" talks the big Allen head bolt  isn't supposed to have anything to do with adjusting the pre-load on the bearings but try backing it off a bit and then apply the 55 lb/ft torque.
Tighten it back up and then try your pulling on the handlebars.
Hopefully, your clunk will be gone.

            I've already tried it that way. I've backed the Allen head bolt (8mm) off fully and it matters not. I end up with the clunk at 55 pounds with it backed off or tightened up. It makes no difference in the "feel" of tightening or loosening the big head nut whether the Allen head bolt is loosened or socked right down with two or three easy taps with my 4 pound harley hammer. Feels the same either way. Nice and smooth down to 55 and backing it off, too.

            It's very strange, isn't it? I have no explanation for it. I'd love to take the whole front end apart and put it back together. THEN I would see what's going on in there. But I ain't gonna    It was 100 degrees in the shade here and like a steam bath today.Like being buried in hot, wet, wool Army blankets.