aboard

Author Topic: Indian Chief build, looking for Information  (Read 28826 times)

0 Members and 2 Guests are viewing this topic.

grumbern

  • Grease Monkey
  • ****
  • Posts: 287
  • Karma: 0
Reply #240 on: May 18, 2018, 12:47:00 pm
On mine the holes are just in the back, like on these:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/ROYAL-ENFIELD-INDIAN-CHIEF-700-RIGHT-CYLINDER/232691329757?hash=item362d7beadd:g:NHsAAOSwRk9aoWDl

or these, too:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/700cc-Royal-Enfield-Cylinders/372295159865?hash=item56ae855039:g:DMwAAOSwHHRa0TMX

and these:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Royal-Enfield-Cylinders-Indian-Chief-700cc-1958-AI/222663742272?hash=item33d7cb1340:g:TyIAAOSwwbZZuyrl

It seems to depend on the production date. As said before, they really must have tried a lot over the years. Mow the question is, if I should let them like they are, or if a benefit was to be expeted of drilled in the front, too. Or maybe even anything less desireble, like too much oil on the barrel?!


ERC

  • Grand Gearhead
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,766
  • Karma: 0
Reply #241 on: May 18, 2018, 01:48:38 pm
That's a good question whether to have them both sides. Maybe an email to Hitchcocks would be a good idea before you button it back up again to be on the safe side.  ERC
2-57 Apaches, 2-57 Trailblazers, 60 Chief, 65 Interceptor, 2004 Bullet, 612 Bullet chopped.


grumbern

  • Grease Monkey
  • ****
  • Posts: 287
  • Karma: 0
Reply #242 on: May 20, 2018, 07:08:40 am
SWell, the issue gave me no rest and I still had half an hour to go. So I removed the pistons and measured correctly, even if only with my calipers. Both had 70.13mm at the bottom of the skirt, the cylinders about 70.28/70.29, it was a little fiddly. If I asume an error of at least +-2/3 digit, this would be ideal! Which means the pistons really are extremely conical and oval shaped, more than I had expected. First measurement was about 10mm from bottom and about 60° from the pin axis, which resulted in 15/100 difference  :o

I also tried the pistons along with a feeler gauge, and the 0.05 went right in, 0.10was just possible, without the use of force. That seems very reasonable.

That makes me very happy and revives my trust in my machine shop ;)
It also means I only need new rings. The question is, if I should call HMC and demand a fitting set, or look for better ones while I'm at it.

What do you think?


ERC

  • Grand Gearhead
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,766
  • Karma: 0
Reply #243 on: May 20, 2018, 08:59:26 am
I think your best bet would be call Hitchcocks and get as much info as possible then make your decision on the info you glean from them. You've got so much time invested in the project now a little more won't matter.  ERC
2-57 Apaches, 2-57 Trailblazers, 60 Chief, 65 Interceptor, 2004 Bullet, 612 Bullet chopped.


RE_Chief

  • Bulleteer
  • ***
  • Posts: 115
  • Karma: 0
Reply #244 on: May 21, 2018, 04:36:18 pm
Hi Andreas, contact Phil re:the barrels, he will know what is correct for your variation.
Regards Charles
1955 Indian Tomahawk 500 twin
1958 Indian Chief 700 twin (SMPB 9002 the 2nd ever made)
1960 Indian Chief 700 twin
1964 Interceptor Mk1 750 twin
1967 Interceptor Mk1A 750 twin
1994 Bullet Deluxe 570 long stroke single


High On Octane

  • Grand Gearhead
  • *****
  • Posts: 6,062
  • Karma: 0
Reply #245 on: May 21, 2018, 08:58:07 pm
Granted I've taken a short break from my motor build, but the rings that came on the Omega forged pistons were not very good.  I broke the scraper removing the rings to make my life easier for grinding clearances to fit the forged con rods.  My Harley guru friend said he hasn't seen rings like that since the 70's and recommended I track down some more modern piston rings.  But I haven't gotten that far yet.
2001 Harley Davidson Road King


grumbern

  • Grease Monkey
  • ****
  • Posts: 287
  • Karma: 0
Reply #246 on: June 05, 2018, 11:10:41 am
It's been quiet for some time here, but I was corresponding with my engine-guy and HMC to solve the issue with the piston rings.
Today I could measure with good equipment, a micrometre and a bore gauge. I first measured the piston at the skirt bottom wich gave me the former value of 70,13mm. I set the bore gauge to 0,00 using that micrometre and measured the bores of the cylinders, both lengthwise and across at top, middle and bottom, giving me 0,10/0,09; 0,10/0,09; 0,10/0,08 for the left and 0,10/0,09; 0,09/0,09;
0,09/0,08 for the right one. All in all between 0,08 and 0,10mm more than the piston and a maximum inaccuracy of 0,02mm which seems good to me.

I also did some additional measurements on the piston in the same way at skirt bottom, at the pin and just below the oil scraper ring that gave me 70,13/69,94; 70,10/--; 70,04/69,81;. I do not have the second piston at the moment as it still is at the machine shop, but I think it is save to assume it's pretty much the same, as my measurements at the skirt bottom where before.

Now I have to wait what they say and if  there are any good rings to fit.

Also I am still waiting for my mudguards and was working hard on my bullet which ceased to work and I could not find the reason - showed it was the regulator and that killed my battery as well as both my ignition coils, as I changed that before testing the voltage...

Well, good thing is, there's always something to happen ;D
Andreas


grumbern

  • Grease Monkey
  • ****
  • Posts: 287
  • Karma: 0
Reply #247 on: June 06, 2018, 03:12:12 pm
Good news from HMC: They will supply me with a set of Hepolite rings!


grumbern

  • Grease Monkey
  • ****
  • Posts: 287
  • Karma: 0
Reply #248 on: July 15, 2018, 05:22:42 am
Some Updates here:

The engine is all put together again an rund fine, as far as I can tell. The Rings are a little small still, but acceptable.

The mudguards came back in a very poor condition, not much better than like I gave them away. They are now with another guy, who hopefully will do better work.
So long,
Andreas


grumbern

  • Grease Monkey
  • ****
  • Posts: 287
  • Karma: 0
Reply #249 on: July 22, 2018, 05:02:06 am
All the sheetmetal and tank is at the painter's. I sand blasted them on friday and got them there yesterday. The man who's doing it is kind of a "living legend" around here and goes by the name of Wolfgang Pühler. He is maybe the specialist for candy paints in the German area and closely working together with Ekrem Pala who will be doing the pinstriping of the tank and also is known as the guy to go to for a good lining, as he actually learned that technique at BMW and pinstriped the motorcycle tanks there!

Check out their work:
Wolfgang Pühler
Ekrem Pala

Bottom line: I don't think I have anything to fear for there, or maybe just a hard time witing for the results ;)
Wolfgang, who is out of business officially, due to his age and bad health (going close to 70 and has survived cancer) ensured me to prime the parts on monday and send me a pattern of the paint to decide and then he'll paint the parts.

That gives me some time to finish work on the electrics and the small stuff, that is still left to do.
So long,
Andreas


Adrian II

  • Grand Gearhead
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,194
  • Karma: 0
  • Sharing my ignorance with anyone who needs it
Reply #250 on: July 22, 2018, 08:53:41 am
Quote
Wolfgang, who is out of business officially, due to his age and bad health (going close to 70 and has survived cancer) ensured me to prime the parts on monday and send me a pattern of the paint to decide and then he'll paint the parts.

You're fortunate that he can still take the job on, be nice to him!  ;)

Looking forward to seeing the finished project (almost as much as you are).

A.
Grumpy Brit still seeking 500 AVL Bullet perfection! Will let you know if I get anywhere near...


grumbern

  • Grease Monkey
  • ****
  • Posts: 287
  • Karma: 0
Reply #251 on: September 01, 2018, 12:29:11 pm
Got some pictures from Wolfgang:






























It's getting exciting!
So long,
Andreas


grumbern

  • Grease Monkey
  • ****
  • Posts: 287
  • Karma: 0
Reply #252 on: September 23, 2018, 03:33:49 pm
Well, there's just no help, small things must also be done. And it's the details that count. The Chief's rectifier was made from Selenium discs and after almost 60 years unusable due to corrosion:




Simple Silicon brige rectifiers today are more reliable and efficient and also do not need that big cooling fins, also are readily available. They just have one downside to them: They also look completely different! As a visible part that was not acceptable and I first thought about fitting Silicon diodes to the old rectifier, but even dimensions didn't allow that. So: Completely new!

First I had to find suitable diodes what wasn't as easy as one might think. I wanted some that could handle currents of 20A and I succeeded. A 25A are good enough, 40V they will do. Not much, but with a 6V alternator not off the limits.

Then I built the parts from brass and aluminium:




That's how the diodes will be placed. Two for each of the AC-terminals, the middle connector that's shown here is the negative pole:




The diodes can be soldered to the brass parts, no problem - so I thought! It needed so much heat for soldering, that it destroyed the diodes right away. No good. What to do? Crimp, or clamp it?! Then it hit me: Weld it! Aft some well aimed laser blasts all was bonded without any excessive heat!






Two of these are placed on oposite sides and connect to the negative pole. On top of that go aluminium discs and insulating washers:




After that come the AC-terminals that are welded to the diodes and covered with an insulating washer:




Then the outer plates forming the positive pole...




...and aluminium discs as well:




Now I need the right washers for the ends, as well as the right bolt and nuts in BSF - for the moment M8 will do. After that some paint and nobody would suspect anything different than the original part.
So long,
Andreas
« Last Edit: September 24, 2018, 02:46:17 am by grumbern »


mattsz

  • Grand Gearhead
  • *****
  • Posts: 5,161
  • Karma: 0
  • moto-gurdyist
Reply #253 on: September 23, 2018, 06:18:59 pm
I continue to be gobsmacked ("when American English just won't do...")!  What a bike this will be when it's complete!


Adrian II

  • Grand Gearhead
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,194
  • Karma: 0
  • Sharing my ignorance with anyone who needs it
Reply #254 on: September 24, 2018, 04:29:57 am
 :o :o :o 8) 8) 8)
Grumpy Brit still seeking 500 AVL Bullet perfection! Will let you know if I get anywhere near...