[mattsz]

Despite careful lubrication maintenance, this morning my "return" throttle cable seems to have seized up.  I felt some brief resistance, then it felt ok.  When I got to work, I took a look and found that the whole cable housing was flexing when it tightened, and the cable wasn't returning into the housing when I released the throttle - the anchor end just hangs loose in the throttle body.  I've effectively got a single "throttle-open only" cable.

I should park it until I can fix it, shouldn't I? 

[Bulletman]

Yes Mattsz, rather safe than Sorry.

[mattsz]

Could you tell by my "tone" that I already knew the answer?

[Grant Borden]

Absolutely not, you hide things very well! 

[Bulletman]

"tone"... I can't hear tones  I'm used to thumping sounds..

[mattsz]

The return cable isn't broken, it's completely frozen in the casing.  It went quickly from working fine to not working; I had just lubed both cables a month and about 100 miles before.  So I pulled the tank and the headlight to gain access, and I made an interesting discovery behind the headlight...

This is looking into the nacelle from behind and to the left; the clutch cable passes by, and the throttle cables are contacting the speedo cable:




Looking into the nacelle from the front:




Here's with the cable pulled through and hanging in front.  Notice the speedo cable housing wear - it looks like it was melted, too:




The housings are melted together; the plastic nub is part of the housing:




Finally, the back of the headlight; that connector insulation looks melted, too:




I find this strange!  Just a few weeks ago, I had the headlight off, to fix an intermittent Neutral light, whose connector was loose and easily plugged together again.  None of this was evident.  I've only ridden a couple times since then, less than 50 miles.  The lights all worked fine.  There's no obvious way the headlight wiring could have shorted through the throttle cables.  Yet now not only is everything melted, but the cables are rusty and seized...

[ace.cafe]

It isn't likely for that extent of rusting to happen in 100 miles. Most likely that it was happening much longer, but was not noticed.

I would recommend replacing it before riding again. The single cable would probably work fine alone, but in the event of any sticky throttle situations, it might stick open, and that would not be good.

[mattsz]

Don't worry Ace, I have no intention of reusing either of those cables!  I've got the extras that came with the bike.

But I had the light off and the speedo cable disconnected that month and 100 miles ago, and there was no evidence of any of it - rust or melting.  Maybe the housing chafed through and began to rust awhile ago, and then something heated up and suddenly melted the housing in the same spot?

Wonder why everything melted - there shouldn't have been a short circuit there, but everything is so jammed in.  Maybe time to think about rewiring those headlight leads?

BTW - I understand that some cables are lined with something fancy and shouldn't be lubed... these factory throttle cables don't fit that description, do they?  At the handlebar end, there's some sort of white lining, but I don't know what it is or how far it might go into the housing...

[ace.cafe]

If the cables cannot be removed from their jackets, I usually hold them vertical before installation, and dribble some good penetrating oil into it until I see some drip out the bottom. Then I pack a little good axle grease into each end of the jacket, and on the ball ends.
This has worked well for me over the years.

[singhg5]

Do you have a high wattage lots of heat producing bulb ON when riding ?

Electricals appear to be burnt due to over heating, may be bad connection or rusted connectors or heat from back of headlight bulb. Heat dried out the outer plastic jacket of cable.

Or did the lube dissolve the plastic jacket on the cable, as it seeped out ? If that happened, it would have affected both cables ?

Rust on the spiral metallic jacket of cable is due to moisture build up over the winter / water accumulation in headlight. 

[Craig McClure]

That is indeed strange. I wondered if any Brake fluid could have spilled on it. Brake fluid WILL eat paint & plastic + cause rust.
I removed my push/return cable to keep it as a spare pull throttle cable. Only one cable is necessary -There is a spring on the Injector that will close the throttle, & we have a kill button if that fails. Until the last decade Motorcycles only had pull cables, I never had one fail.

Craig in North Port FL

[mattsz]

Thanks Singh...

I've been riding almost since day 1 with the high beam on in daylight because it stands out much more than the low beam.  Maybe it's too hot?  But, I was in the nacelle a month ago, and everything looked good.  It's possible I caused a problem when I reinstalled the headlight.

I've been lubing the cables with Dri-Slide's "Bike Aid" lubricant; it's a molybdenum disulfide lube with a liquid petroleum carrier.  Bare recommended it as a good cable lube; it has a nice thin needle applicator tube which actually fits inside the housing with the cable, so it's easy to apply just by opening up the throttle housing.  I've never heard of it dissolving any cable housings.   Here's a tech sheet:

https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0095/7332/files/TDS_Bike_Aid_1bf2271d-3f84-4a3d-9c95-eb0eea9f7183.pdf?80

Craig - the brake line does go through in the vicinity, but there's no leaks and I haven't opened the reservoir.  Good thing there is a spring - that cable is seized up solid, useless as a backup in case the spring failed...

[JVS]

Not sure about the melting, but it looks like the deed of one tough hungry terminator rat  Probably bad quality polymer that succumbed to the heat of the headlight.

[High On Octane]

Yeah, looks like it was mounted too close to the headlight.  Bummer. 

[Richard230]

I have been using Bike Aid for over 20 years to lube cables on many different motorcycles (except BMWs, which have a nylon lined cable and require no lubrication) and have never had a problem.  In fact, I have never had to replace any cable, even on motorcycles that are over 30 years old and have gone over 100K miles.     So I consider it a very good product and there is nothing on the market that has a thinner needle applicator, which allows you to squirt the lube between the cable and its housing.

[mattsz]

Yeah, looks like it was mounted too close to the headlight.  Bummer. 

There's no place else to put all these cables.  2-1/2 years with no melting...

[sparklow]

The first time I took the headlight off on my B5 and noticed the individual push on connections for the headlamp I made note of the connection sequence, cut the push connectors off, and soldered on a standard molded headlight connector using heat shrink tubing over all splices. The RE method of push on connectors is not adequate in my experience while the molded one piece connector can handle heat in a much more satisfactory way. I am not saying that this was your only problem but it may well have contributed to this failure.

[caricabasso]

The contacts Headlight Lamp are very precarious and space is very limited.
This causes a contact with the speedometer cable and the positive  goes to ground, creating a lot of heat.
I have completely redone the wiring of the lamp for just this reason.
Your cables are rusted precocemenet because of the heat that has developed from contact with the positive lead of the lamp.
The new models have the ring of light longer and therefore more distant from the speedometer cable.

[longstrokeclassic]

Unfortunately caricabasso has hit the nail squarely on the head. The short  has generated enough heat to liquefy the plastic lining inside the throttle cable which has solidified around the inner cable seizeing it solid. The discolouration on the blue feed wire insulator sheath identifies this as the source of the short. It has been dislodged at some point leaving an exposed live wire when the main beam is on. Both of your throttle cables are dead centre right behind the headlamp bulb. The speedo cable situated behind them picked up a little heat off the throttle cable at the same time.

[singhg5]

The contacts Headlight Lamp are very precarious and space is very limited.
This causes a contact with the speedometer cable and ilpositivo goes to ground, creating a lot of heat.
I have completely redone the wiring of the lamp for just this reason.
Your cables are rusted precocemenet because of the heat that has developed from contact with the positive lead of the lamp.
The new models have the ring of light longer and therefore more distant from the speedometer cable.

+1 - Perfect explanation of what may have really happened.

@ Mattsz:

Your nacelle looks cleaner than my G5, which has lots of wires all over. But in my G5 the throttle cables are WAY BACK in the nacelle, farther away from headlamp connectors than your B5. There are wires in front of throttle cables that block their contact to the back side of headlamp.

Just curious to know if you had re-routed the throttle cables at some point or brought them in front of speedometer cable ? Or you just moved them to take good picture ?

[JVS]

Are both the headlight filaments operating properly?

[mattsz]

Thanks guys!  Just to keep the discussion going...

The contacts Headlight Lamp are very precarious and space is very limited.
This causes a contact with the speedometer cable and the positive  goes to ground, creating a lot of heat.
I have completely redone the wiring of the lamp for just this reason.
Your cables are rusted precocemenet because of the heat that has developed from contact with the positive lead of the lamp.
The new models have the ring of light longer and therefore more distant from the speedometer cable.

I'm not quite sure why a live wire would short electrically against a plastic cable covering, but obviously something happened.  My photo of the headlight isn't at a good angle to show the three wires in relation to each other... they're straight and not able to touch each other, anyway.  You can see how the wires are bent sharply just next to the connectors, though, which suggests they're wedged tightly against other bits in the nacelle.  They've looked just like this from day 1.  Do you happen to have a photo of what you did to re-wire your light?  I see another visit to my local auto-parts store in my near future...

Unfortunately caricabasso has hit the nail squarely on the head. The short  has generated enough heat to liquefy the plastic lining inside the throttle cable which has solidified around the inner cable seizeing it solid. The discolouration on the blue feed wire insulator sheath identifies this as the source of the short. It has been dislodged at some point leaving an exposed live wire when the main beam is on. Both of your throttle cables are dead centre right behind the headlamp bulb. The speedo cable situated behind them picked up a little heat off the throttle cable at the same time.

If this is what happened, then it could explain why the cable is seized.  Still, it takes more than an exposed wire to make a short and create heat.  The wire has to touch something conductive to ground, and I wouldn't have guessed that a plastic cable housing would do the trick.  Unless the housing was already damaged and the metal coil inside was exposed to the headlight wire - and I just never noticed it - and the short was just bad enough to cause heat in that location, but not blow a fuse.  Makes me question the wiring and the effectiveness of the fuses - this could have set my bike on fire!

+1 - Perfect explanation of what may have really happened.

@ Mattsz:

Your nacelle looks cleaner than my G5, which has lots of wires all over. But in my G5 the throttle cables are WAY BACK in the nacelle, farther away from headlamp connectors than your B5. There are wires in front of throttle cables that block their contact to the back side of headlamp.

Just curious to know if you had re-routed the throttle cables at some point or brought them in front of speedometer cable ? Or you just moved them to take good picture ?

Singh, maybe this is an argument in favor of the spider's nest ()?  With all the loose wires, it's easier to move them around and get them out of the way of the headlight?  With everything "cleaned up" and bunched together like on the newer bikes, it's hard to make room if you need some.  Those rubber shrouds, especially the one on the right in my photos, make it very difficult to access those connectors - there's very little play in any of the wires there.

The layout of everything in the second pic of my post above is exactly how it came from the factory (the third pic was taken while I was removing the cables).  I've had the speedo out before, but I left the speedo cable in place, and I was very careful to make sure everything remained as exactly like the original as I could, assuming it was the best way.  Maybe the 7" headlight protrudes further into the nacelle than the OEM smaller light?  Anyway, I will definitely look at re-routing the new throttle cables!

Are both the headlight filaments operating properly?

Yes, they were.  No obvious signs of trouble.  Both lights worked properly, I noticed no funny smells or smoke while the bike warmed up, the battery has remained charged well...

[JVS]

If it was a short you would have either blown a fuse, blown either of the filaments, or your HL would act in a funny way with any leakage current.

It is either that the heat has stuffed it up due to poor quality of the plastic. Or, your throttle cables were in a tight arrangement and whenever you turned the handlebar, the cable has rubbed on to the head stem/frame tube repeatedly; leading to the plastic deteriorating. It doesn't take much for that to happen. If you see scuff/abrasions on the inner side of the frame tube as seen in Pic 1 of reply #5; then you can conclude whether the 'rubbing' was the cause or not.

When you had lubed the cables a month ago, did you do any other work on the bike that might've indirectly or directly lead to the throttle cables being moved around or adjusted?

[mattsz]

If it was a short you would have either blown a fuse, blown either of the filaments, or your HL would act in a funny way with any leakage current.

It is either that the heat has stuffed it up due to poor quality of the plastic. Or, your throttle cables were in a tight arrangement and whenever you turned the handlebar, the cable has rubbed on to the head stem/frame tube repeatedly; leading to the plastic deteriorating. It doesn't take much for that to happen. If you see scuff/abrasions on the inner side of the frame tube as seen in Pic 1 of reply #5; then you can conclude whether the 'rubbing' was the cause or not.

When you had lubed the cables a month ago, did you do any other work on the bike that might've indirectly or directly lead to the throttle cables being moved around or adjusted?

Leakage current: I always look to see that my headlight is on, but I've only ridden in daylight recently, so the light could have been dimmer than usual and I might not have noticed.

The throttle cables have not been rubbing the head tube.  They're held away from it by the thickness of the speedo cable, which is held away by the brake line.  You can see the speedo cable housing damage, too, but it looks melted from contact with the hot throttle cable housing, and not worn by being chafed over time.

By this reasoning, it's the brake line that should be rubbing against the head tube - I wonder how it looks?  Something has to contact the head tube - I wonder... I've seen in woodworking catalogs, thin adhesive-backed "teflon" (or some other slippery compound) tape being sold to stick on your table-saw or what-have-you so that wood and other fixtures will slide easily.  Something like that on the head tube (or around the cable housings) to help protect whatever is rubbing there?  (example: http://www.leevalley.com/en/Wood/page.aspx?p=32182&cat=3,43576,53293&ap=1

I did pull the headlight to fix the intermittent neutral light, but I didn't mess with the cables - all I did was find one of the connector plugs (on the right in my photo) had worked loose.  I plugged it back in, and closed everything back up.  I noticed no melting or rust at that time - not to say it wasn't there, though, and I could have caused a problem when I reinstalled the headlight.

[ace.cafe]

Similar things like this have been happening ever since there have been Bullets.
The wiring in the headlight casquette is always rubbing on something or other, and insulation gets rubbed off, or things get moved when turning the handlebars, and eventually something happens. It's not always electrical, and sometimes cables get pinched, or whatever.
In the older Bullets, it is the connections at the ammeter that are always getting shorted out or touching something.

[mattsz]

In the grand scheme of things, this isn't really that big a deal, I guess.  Like I said, there was no fire, my throttle didn't stick open while approaching a busy intersection, etc...

I am thinking more about chafing gear in there, though. (I was going to make a comment about baggywrinkle here, but then I googled it and found the "urban dictionary" definition, so just forget it.  Kids are ruining everything!  )

[caricabasso]

The contacts of the headlight lamp compress the speedometer cable and, after a while 'time, cut the plastic coating and go to mass on the spiral iron sheath odometer cable producing heat and melting much of the plastic coating.
In practice the spiral of iron of the odometer cable in contact with the positive pole functions as a resistor and heats up.
Do not forget that the lamp has a power consumption of 70 watts and therefore the heat that develops in the case of mass is remarkable.
The fuse in this case is not stressed and the lamp continues to work with the exception of the dipped beam,
If you remove the lighthouse you will see a sign on the cable jacket odometer procured their contacts headlight lamp

[gremlin]

.........I was going to make a comment about baggywrinkle here, but then I googled it and found the "urban dictionary" definition, so just forget it.  Kids are ruining everything!  )

I dunno, that barley wine ale looked pretty good to me !

[mattsz]

Anybody know of a NAPA part number for a single headlight connector I could get to rewire this headlight?

[GSS]

Any auto place will have a H4 or 9003 socket.

http://m.napaonline.com/Tablet/parts/PartDetails.aspx?Id=NW_787108_0495955483

[High On Octane]

Matt I think I might have a spare.  Let me dig thru my closet and see if I can find it, if so it's yours.

[mattsz]

Thanks guys!

GSS - that looks like the kind of thing I need.  These plugs look like they take up even more room than the individual wire connectors - but they're probably safer nonetheless.

Scottie - I really appreciate the offer!  I'm hoping to get this fixed soon, so don't worry about sending yours - I'm sure I can easily source one locally... I've got two auto parts stores between work and home.

[Bulletman]

Mattsz,
Here is what I did to solve the space problem using the same blue connected, except I used a good ( I mean quality, name brand Hacksaw  ) and sawed off half of the blue connector which saved me a ton of space in that rats nest of a Nacelle..

[Bulletman]

One more pic

[Bulletman]

That setup has worked for me for over 10K miles and is still solid and intact.

[mattsz]

Thanks Bulletman!  Heat doesn't seem to have bothered your connector, or the duct tape on the end....

[Bulletman]

No the heat didn't affect it at all. Even after sawing the connector in 1/2 It still was literally touching the speedo cable, but not anymore,  just yesterday I installed the new KOSO multi tach with GHG's guidance and help which was very much appreciated, now there's much more room in the nacelle, I'm sure you'll get this resolved to your liking.

[heloego]

Got a pic of that Tach install? 

[Bulletman]

  you got it Heloego, I'll post it in the next hour

[mattsz]

I stopped by my local - they had the basic plastic headlight connector for just a couple of dollars each, and also the fancier one like GSS posted - advertised as heat-resistant.  Of course, they only come packaged in pairs for around $10.  I bought the latter; they're shallower, with the wires coming out of a rubber boot at 90 degrees, rather than straight out towards the rear.

Regarding the throttle cables:  NFG sells two types, OEM for $13:

http://www.nfieldgear.com/oem-replacement-throttle-cables/

and "Barnett Premium" for $25:

http://www.nfieldgear.com/barnett-premium-throttle-cables/

Are the expensive ones that much better?  (Should I even be asking, considering my original OEM ones melted?  )  "Friction-free teflon liners"... does that make these cables ones that should not be lubricated?

[Arizoni]

Teflon (Polytetrafluoroethylene) is very resistant to gasoline, alcohol, acetone, motor oils, cooking oils and darn near anything else you can think of and thousands of things you can't.

It is highly resistant to abrasion and has an exceptionally low coefficient of friction.

In other words, it's slippery stuff that doesn't need oiling but if you do it won't damage it in any way.

Even so, oiling the cables is a good idea.  Many of them are made from carbon steel and oiling them will protect them from rust.

[Bulletman]

Here's a few pics

[Bulletman]

One more

[mattsz]

Even so, oiling the cables is a good idea.  Many of them are made from carbon steel and oiling them will protect them from rust.

Good point - keeping the cables slippery isn't the only reason for lubricating them.

Anyone have an opinion about whether they're worth paying double for?  Of course, I'll be putting my OEM spares on the bike before I could get the replacements...

[mattsz]

never mind.  I just noticed that for the 2 OEM cables needed for the UCE, the price automatically doubles...

The "better" ones are $70...

[High On Octane]

Just remember you get what you pay for.  IMO the Barnett cable is far superior than the Indian made "equivalent" in every aspect.  Better materials and better QC.

[ace.cafe]

Just remember you get what you pay for.  IMO the Barnett cable is far superior than the Indian made "equivalent" in every aspect.  Better materials and better QC.

Is Barnett selling Motion Pro cables under their label?

[High On Octane]

Is Barnett selling Motion Pro cables under their label?

I believe that Barnett and Motion Pro are now affiliated somehow.  Not sure of the exact relation tho.

[Bulletman]

For over 90% of the users here the OEM cables seem to be working fine, I've still got my original cables on and I've got 12.5 K miles on it and so have many members.

[Bulletman]

@ Heloego
GHG has posted the install of the KOSO multi speedo, here is the link
http://www.enfieldmotorcycles.com/forum/index.php/topic,19887.15.html

[Craig McClure]

Anybody know of a NAPA part number for a single headlight connector I could get to rewire this headlight?

No need to use an actual PLUG behind the headlight, You can simply use correct size female spade connectors. some are even made as right angle 90 degree. Very EZ to wire. I am doing something similar on my Ural.

[mattsz]

No need to use an actual PLUG behind the headlight, You can simply use correct size female spade connectors. some are even made as right angle 90 degree. Very EZ to wire. I am doing something similar on my Ural.

Craig - the bike came wired that way.  Pretty sure that was part of my problem... that's why I want to switch to a single connector:

[heloego]

Definitely get a proper connector, mattsz.
Boggles the mind that they wired it that way. 
Maybe production pressure made 'em do it when they ran out of parts. 

[mattsz]

Have "they" ever used a "proper connector"?  Not that I've seen...

[upintheair]

My 2015 B5 came with the automotive style plug from the factory (2weeks and 75 miles old).

[Arizoni]

My 2015 B5 came with the automotive style plug from the factory (2weeks and 75 miles old).

That sounds like another typical Royal Enfield improvement.

They seem to be constantly changing little things like this.

My 2011 has the old individual wire connectors like Mattsz's picture shows but the 7 inch headlight I installed doesn't extend as far back towards the speedometer cable as his does.

That whole area behind the headlight and in front of the speedometer cable doesn't have a lot of room for the wiring so just a word to the wise for you owners that plan on changing out your headlight, be sure to check the clearance with the headlight installed.
You can do that by peering into the area of the casquette from the rear on both sides.

[Craig McClure]

Craig - the bike came wired that way.  Pretty sure that was part of my problem... that's why I want to switch to a single connector:

Pretty sure they did it to save space. it's pretty tight in there.

[mattsz]

Glad to hear they've upgraded this part.  My 7" headlight upgrade came from NFG, so I hope they'd supply one that would fit safely.  I'll be looking at re-leading the cables that run behind the bulb...