[suitcasejefferson]

Do you recommend not to use foam filter on EFI bike, Any particular reason? Please enlighten me.

Regards
Mandar

My suggestions come from 27 years of working as an ASE certified mechanic/technician, amateur drag racer (cars) and lifelong motorcycle rider, both street and dirt. I have used a lot of oiled foam filters on dirt bikes, my Yamaha XT225 has one. Even riding it all day in the dusty AZ desert, nothing has ever gotten through one. The outside will become so caked up with a mixture of dirt and oil, to the point where it falls off in chunks into the bottom of the airbox. I remove, clean, reoil, and reinstall mine after just a few hours of riding in conditions like that. An oiled foam filter can be used on any kind of bike, carbed or EFI. On a carbed engine, a change in the air filter or the airbox will cause a change in the air/fuel ratio at all engine speeds. If it is off far enough, the carb will need rejetting to compensate. EFI can compensate on it's own, but it's range is very limited. And if you need to make a large adjustment, unlike a carb, you will need some very expensive electronic parts, like the Power Commander.

As for paper air filters, they work just fine, my main problem is that they cannot be cleaned. I considered going from an XT225 to an XT250, and the main thing thing that made me decide not to is because the XT250 uses a paper air filter. Fine for the road, but they cannot be cleaned, and a single day of riding in the off road conditions I ride in would pretty much ruin one. They are not cheap.

IMO, stay away from anything advertised as "high flow" If it flows more air, it will flow more dirt as well. The K&N filter is notorious for this. It is neither foam nor paper, but some kind of gauze. You can see right through it. It is supposed to be cleaned and resprayed with K&N's very expensive cleaner, and some sticky stuff. But even done as per the instructions, it is still a very poor filter.

As for the "more air is better" thing, it can be, but you have to retune the carb or EFI to keep the air/fuel mixture right. Otherwise the engine will run lean, it will have poor performance, and it will overheat. And any performance increase you get with a RE just by modifying the carb/EFI, and air filter will not be enough to notice.

I don't race my bike, and in fact don't even ride it over 60 mph. To me it is just a very enjoyable cruiser, an old fashioned bike to enjoy riding in the slow lane.

I also believe that if you could increase the power of a stock RE engine enough to make any substantial difference, you would drastically shorten the longevity and reliability of the engine. I'm not saying the performance cannot be increased without destroying the engine (ACE is in the business) but it is going to take a lot more than just a few bolt on parts.

I like mine just the way it is, I have owned bikes that would top 150 mph. But I am not a roadracer, and trying to ride that fast on the street will cost you your license real quick (if you don't get killed first)

 

[Mandar_C500]

My suggestions come from 27 years of working as an ASE certified mechanic/technician, amateur drag racer (cars) and lifelong motorcycle rider, both street and dirt. I have used a lot of oiled foam filters on dirt bikes, my Yamaha XT225 has one. Even riding it all day in the dusty AZ desert, nothing has ever gotten through one. The outside will become so caked up with a mixture of dirt and oil, to the point where it falls off in chunks into the bottom of the airbox. I remove, clean, reoil, and reinstall mine after just a few hours of riding in conditions like that. An oiled foam filter can be used on any kind of bike, carbed or EFI. On a carbed engine, a change in the air filter or the airbox will cause a change in the air/fuel ratio at all engine speeds. If it is off far enough, the carb will need rejetting to compensate. EFI can compensate on it's own, but it's range is very limited. And if you need to make a large adjustment, unlike a carb, you will need some very expensive electronic parts, like the Power Commander.

As for paper air filters, they work just fine, my main problem is that they cannot be cleaned. I considered going from an XT225 to an XT250, and the main thing thing that made me decide not to is because the XT250 uses a paper air filter. Fine for the road, but they cannot be cleaned, and a single day of riding in the off road conditions I ride in would pretty much ruin one. They are not cheap.

IMO, stay away from anything advertised as "high flow" If it flows more air, it will flow more dirt as well. The K&N filter is notorious for this. It is neither foam nor paper, but some kind of gauze. You can see right through it. It is supposed to be cleaned and resprayed with K&N's very expensive cleaner, and some sticky stuff. But even done as per the instructions, it is still a very poor filter.

As for the "more air is better" thing, it can be, but you have to retune the carb or EFI to keep the air/fuel mixture right. Otherwise the engine will run lean, it will have poor performance, and it will overheat. And any performance increase you get with a RE just by modifying the carb/EFI, and air filter will not be enough to notice.

I don't race my bike, and in fact don't even ride it over 60 mph. To me it is just a very enjoyable cruiser, an old fashioned bike to enjoy riding in the slow lane.

I also believe that if you could increase the power of a stock RE engine enough to make any substantial difference, you would drastically shorten the longevity and reliability of the engine. I'm not saying the performance cannot be increased without destroying the engine (ACE is in the business) but it is going to take a lot more than just a few bolt on parts.

I like mine just the way it is, I have owned bikes that would top 150 mph. But I am not a roadracer, and trying to ride that fast on the street will cost you your license real quick (if you don't get killed first)

Thank you sir,
   In my earlier days I have tried fabricating foam air filter and it worked well for me. I have ridden in many dusty conditions like LEH and in the ranges of Sahyadri mountains where we have lost of dust (red soil), I have never seen any traces of dust in the Throttle Body. I have mounted the Foam Filter at the outlet of the AF box and drilled some extra holes in the AF box for more air.
Later I heard some good reviews about UNI foam filter hence I got it from US of A. Also used it however not very happy with it, but change in sound is really great.
Now I am back to paper filter and I think bike is not as free reviving as it used to be with Foam filter. 

Now planning to go back to Foam Filter.
I am not looking for a performance gain while moving to the foam filter, but the issue is AF box in my bike is not sealed properly hence it allows some dust to the TB.
With Foam filter I get the flexibility of cleaning it anywhere and setting filtration level (as it is double layer filter) and of course cheaper. 
Regards
Mandar

[ace.cafe]

A good paper filter with sufficient surface area filters best, and flows well. They do need periodic replacement, which some people don't want to do.
As for foam filters, the statement above that "nothing gets through them" is very accurate. Not even air gets through them too well. They are the worst of all types that I have ever seen because they generally are small "socks" with small surface area, and the flow of that surface area is poor. But they are washable and keep the dirt out, so in some circumstances they might not be objectionable.
K&N and other oiled gauze filters have their place because they are washable and flow well, and last a long time, even if the filtering is less than stellar.

So, it depends on what you want from your filter.

FWIW, the filter that is used in the REAL GENUINE Ace Air Canister is a high performance pleated paper type that has sufficient area for a small V8 engine like a 283 Chevy, filters very well, has inexpensive replacement elements, and was designed by someone who is aware of all the proper design criteria for an air filter system.

[mumblemouth]

A good paper filter with sufficient surface area filters best, and flows well. They do need periodic replacement, which some people don't want to do.
As for foam filters, the statement above that "nothing gets through them" is very accurate. Not even air gets through them too well. They are the worst of all types that I have ever seen because they generally are small "socks" with small surface area, and the flow of that surface area is poor. But they are washable and keep the dirt out, so in some circumstances they might not be objectionable.
K&N and other oiled gauze filters have their place because they are washable and flow well, and last a long time, even if the filtering is less than stellar.

So, it depends on what you want from your filter.

FWIW, the filter that is used in the REAL GENUINE Ace Air Canister is a high performance pleated paper type that has sufficient area for a small V8 engine like a 283 Chevy, filters very well, has inexpensive replacement elements, and was designed by someone who is aware of all the proper design criteria for an air filter system.

Ace,Do you still sell em? Last thing I read y'all stopped making the canisters..but that was quite awhile ago.

[ace.cafe]

Ace,Do you still sell em? Last thing I read y'all stopped making the canisters..but that was quite awhile ago.

I make them individually to order, and I now use a frosted matte finish on the crown of the chrome lid to diffuse the sunlight reflection, and all has been okay for several years now.
I do have a variant for UCE bikes, but the bracket is an approximation because I don't have a UCE here to try it on. I get the bracket as close as I can, and everyone so far has been successful with the installation.
Gloss black or olive drab matte.

Thanks for asking!
 

[mumblemouth]

I make them individually to order, and I now use a frosted matte finish on the crown of the chrome lid to diffuse the sunlight reflection, and all has been okay for several years now.
I do have a variant for UCE bikes, but the bracket is an approximation because I don't have a UCE here to try it on. I get the bracket as close as I can, and everyone so far has been successful with the installation.
Gloss black or olive drab matte.

Thanks for asking!
 

Awesome! I just PM'ed ya.

[suitcasejefferson]

The oiled foam filter is definitely not a performance filter. To some performance is everything. To me it really doesn't mean anything on a bike anymore. I just like to go out and cruise. And as far as riding in the dirt, I want the filter that will do the best job of filtering, regardless of any loss in performance. As long as the bike has "enough" power, engine longevity is the most important thing to me. I have an aftermarket exhaust on my XT, and the carb is rejetted for it, but the airbox is 100% stock, with no holes drilled in it or anything removed. I have a stock oiled foam filter in it. It is just a small trail bike, something to plog along trails on.

Everybody definitely choose the filter you think you need, just be aware of the poor filtering capabilities of the K&N. IMO, it seems that many people buy these because of the name and all the marketing hype, without really looking into what they are getting.

[gremlin]

Gremlin, do you have a walk through on how to build that? I ended up putting a pod directly on the TB. Haven't had a chance to really run with it yet..just a little jog around the block. Everything feels ok. Seems a bit louder and more responsive though. But I prefer the looks of the canister, and seems like the air flow might be smoother.

I bought a kit and was disappointed with the engineering of it.   so....  used pieces of it and built up what I thought I wanted.

I used a K&N E-4310 filter (no oil, no issues with rain)

The filter element is here:  http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00062YMYW/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o06_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

[mumblemouth]

I bought a kit and was disappointed with the engineering of it.   so....  used pieces of it and built up what I thought I wanted.

I used a K&N E-4310 filter (no oil, no issues with rain)

The filter element is here:  http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00062YMYW/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o06_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

So that's the Ace canister, basically, with a new filter and modified intake tube? Looks like the factory one right? Does it bump your leg at all?

[gremlin]

So that's the Ace canister, basically, with a new filter and modified intake tube? Looks like the factory one right? Does it bump your leg at all?

I did *NOT* identify the kit I modified.

It tucks in under the seat nicely, and, fits between the frametubes of my B5 well.  No protrusions.

That is the factory intake tube, shortened, and flanged.

BTW ....  the factory case breather tube is a tidy fit up the side & enters near the top next to the engine intake.

[heloego]

Craig, et al:
I just picked up a viable replacement filter from O'Reilly's.
Prime Line Filter P/N 7-02713-1. $12.99 +tax.
Somewhat triangular in shape with caged pleated paper medium but appears to have the same surface area as the OEM one, and fits nicely [edit]once the cap plate is hammered flat. 

[mattsz]

Craig, et al:
I just picked up a viable replacement filter from O'Reilly's.
Prime Line Filter P/N 7-02713-1. $12.99 +tax.
Somewhat triangular in shape with caged pleated paper medium but appears to have the same surface area as the OEM one, and fits nicely [edit]once the cap plate is hammered flat. 

Do you mean the round plate which clamps the filter to the airbox?  Did you flatten the lip which helps seal it to the round OEM filter?  Wondering if you can just flip the plate over and get it to seal your "triangle" filter, but still have it work if you go back to OEM?

[heloego]

The overall circumference of this filter is roughly triangular, thus the cover plate is shape the same.
I had to turn the filter over and use a drift to flatten the mfr indents so the bottom edge would properly seal. It now fits fine.
Hindsight being what it is... 

[Sectorsteve]

i really like the k&n filter. the fact its durable & washable is the kicker. it filters well. its not dusty here though
60k on my bike thus far and she's just getting better every ride. the dealers here sell the paper filter for $50. the k&n was 50 also...