[JohnDL]

Hi all.

I've just done an oil change on my Continental GT. The bike had it's 300 mile service done at the supplying dealer, and I've just done another oil change at 2000 miles.

I followed the running in procedure as laid out in the handbook, and haven't gone over 3500 revs or sustained any high speed running since. In fact, I rarely exceed 60mph on it.

I took the Primary drain gauze filter out and found the attached bits of metal on it. I'm assuming the dealer cleaned the gauze at 300 miles but I can't be sure.

Can anyone tell me if this is normal for a bike that's presumable just finished the running in process?

I've attached 3 photos in different light/backgrounds so hopefully someone can put my mind at rest and say it's normal for the early breaking in of the bike. The quality's not brilliant as they're hastily taken on my phone!

Thanks in advance.

John

[ace.cafe]

Not sure.
How's your starter working? Any indications of sprag clutch problems?

[JohnDL]

Thanks for the speedy reply!

The bike's running great! No problem with the electric start.

John

[ace.cafe]

Thanks for the speedy reply!

The bike's running great! No problem with the electric start.

John

Well, monitor it for a while. You might start having some.

If it were my bike, I'd have the primary cover off and see where that stuff came from. It's NOT normal. Those pieces came off of something. The sprag would be the most vulnerable item in the primary.

[johno]

Are the bits metallic, one or two look like machine shop cloth......

[ace.cafe]

Some of them are definitely metal.
Normal break-in material would be some very fine metallic dust, like glitter in the oil. Not big pieces.

[JohnDL]

I had the usual metallic "fur" on the drain plugs but these were on the gauze filter.

I guess the best option would be to inspect it again sooner rather than later.

Maybe do another oil change before the warranty runs out in August.

Thanks for the replies.

John

[SteveThackery]

This is definitely not normal.  I suggest two things:

1/ Test the pieces with a magnet to see if they are ferrous or aluminium

2/ Email the dealer and send him those photos, plus the results of your magnet test

I'm pretty sure he'll want it in to see what's happening.

[Ducati Scotty]

Yes, contact the dealer.  It's normal to have a few bits of machine swarf for several oil changes but these don't look right.

[High On Octane]

Yes, get it to the dealer with the pics and such.  Especially if the warranty is about to expire.  That is not normal and something has failed.

[JohnDL]

Thanks for your replies.

I woke this morning and came to the same conclusion. I put a magnet against the bits and nothing stuck so it's obviously not steel.

I'll email the dealer and see what he suggests.

John

[High On Octane]

Just for a little trouble shooting fun.....  At any point since the last oil change, has the motor kicked back or coughed out the throttle body while trying to start or while shutting off the bike?

[JohnDL]

No - it's performed faultlessly.

I showed the bits to my brother who's an engineer, and he thinks it looks like left over bits from the machining process. He said the thin bits could be parts from when the threads were cut into the engine for things like the drain plug.

I tore the paper cartridge filter apart and there was nothing in there to cause concern.

I'm thinking of draining the oil after a few miles and inspecting the gauze again before tearing the engine apart.

As the bits are aluminium if something catastrophic was failing, I would've thought there'd be more debris than that, and some abnormal sounds coming from the engine.

John

[High On Octane]

The sprag clutch for the ES is known to fail.  Usually, a kickback is what causes the failure.  Most times the sprag will be damaged but continue working for a few more moths before total failure.  Might be worth pulling the left side cover off to have a look see if there is more pieces floating around in there or not.

[JohnDL]

I thought the sprag issue only affected the earlier models and there had been an improved, stronger version fitted to the new bikes.

Is it still an issue on new models?

John

[High On Octane]

It's better than it used to be, but the design itself is flawed.  A lot of owners remove the ES all together to eliminate any possible future problems.

[gashousegorilla]

I thought the sprag issue only affected the earlier models and there had been an improved, stronger version fitted to the new bikes.

Is it still an issue on new models?

John

  Correct. The new one is a much better design... And like the old one , it has no aluminum parts in it.  Both designs have the sprag housed between gear halves. So it is enclosed, and I would think  extremely difficult, for steel bits to exit the relatively small oil passages that lead too it.  Not impossible now !.  BUT.... your sprag would likely have to shred to such an extent to get that , that you would surely know it when you hit the start button.

[JohnDL]

That's why I don't think it's a starter sprag problem. I've had no problems with the starter and the bits are aluminium whereas as stated above, the sprag gears aren't!

I'm hoping it's just machining debris, but another inspection after a short period should hopefully show a clean gauze. Fingers crossed!

As I said earlier, the paper oil filter was debris-free when I tore it apart so that's encouraging.

Thanks for all your input.

John

[singhg5]

No - it's performed faultlessly.

I showed the bits to my brother who's an engineer, and he thinks it looks like left over bits from the machining process. He said the thin bits could be parts from when the threads were cut into the engine for things like the drain plug.

I tore the paper cartridge filter apart and there was nothing in there to cause concern.

I'm thinking of draining the oil after a few miles and inspecting the gauze again before tearing the engine apart.

As the bits are aluminium if something catastrophic was failing, I would've thought there'd be more debris than that, and some abnormal sounds coming from the engine.

John

I agree with your brother totally.

If something had broken inside, you would have known it by now. RE is not shy to clatter when things go wrong.

Once I have had a small sliver come off from machining left over. Nothing to worry after I realized that. Everything has been fine. As a matter of fact removing them out of the way keeps engine clean and it gets better and better. 

[SteveThackery]

I agree with your brother totally.

If something had broken inside, you would have known it by now. RE is not shy to clatter when things go wrong.

I think your brother has made a good argument.  However, if it were my bike and I'd just shelled out all that money for it, I would definitely take it back to the dealer to at least give them the chance to investigate.

[Arizoni]

John
IMO, no, the sprag clutch is not a big concern on the new Royal Enfields.

There is no part of the sprag clutch that is made from a non-magnetic material so I am sure those pieces are not from it.

Small bits of aluminum chips like these may have been small burrs caused by the various machine operations while making the parts.  Usually, these are knocked off by the deburring processes the parts go thru but it isn't unheard of for a few burrs to escape the process.

When I did my second oil change I also found some odd bits of metal stuck in the oil pump inlet screen.  That was 14,000 miles ago and there hasn't been any problem with the engine or with the gearbox.

Just let your dealer know what you've found so if a problem comes up later you can remind him that this all happened during the engines early break in period.

[GSS]

My C5 had a few tiny "normal" metal slivers and shards at 300 miles.  The GT was a bit concerning as it had about 50% of what you fished out......a closer look led me to the same conclusion that this was machining debris from the aluminum case, or tiny aluminum bits sheared off by whoever hammered in the bearings and oil seals!  Bike runs smoother than my C5 did at a similar mileage and I don't think there are any issues here. Thanks.

[gashousegorilla]

I think your brother has made a good argument.  However, if it were my bike and I'd just shelled out all that money for it, I would definitely take it back to the dealer to at least give them the chance to investigate.

  I can tell ya.... Every UCE stock piston that I have seen come out, had nicely scratched piston skirts on the thrust side.  I think cleanliness during Engine assembly would go a long way.

[Ducati Scotty]

If they're not magnetic and your brother thinks they're just machine turnings, they probably are.  They do look a bit odd in the picture though.  I'd still say it's worth going to the dealer to check.

Scott

[gizzo]

I've just changed my oil last week at 6200ish km and the suction screen still had plenty of ali swarf in it. The magnetic drain plug had some fur as well, and the oil filter contained it's share of glittery particles. Seeing this is the first time I've changed it myself and have no idea whether the shop changed/cleaned the filters (they charged for it but you never know) I don't know if it's still coming or is old stuff. But I'll be keeping an eye on it for sure. Mine wasn't big chips like yours but kind of flaky stuff, like it's spalling off from somewhere, hopefully during assembly, or machining swarf. And a bit of fluffy stuff there too, maybe the infamous shop rag?

[JohnDL]

Thanks for your replies.

I've emailed the dealer as suggested to let him know what I've found. They do look more scary in the photo than in reality!

My plan is to run it for a few hundred miles providing I don't start hearing any abnormal noises, then dump the oil and check the gauze filter again.

I bought the bike with the intention of working on it myself and am reluctant to let the dealer rip into the engine when it's running so well without any worrying noises.

John

[SteveThackery]

I bought the bike with the intention of working on it myself and am reluctant to let the dealer rip into the engine when it's running so well without any worrying noises.

That's my intention, too.  On the other hand I want to be sure it's "right" because of the money it cost me.  Anyway, I would send the photos to the dealer and ask for their comments - that way you've covered yourself. 

That's just my advice - obviously you must do what feels right to you.

[JohnDL]

I emailed this pictures to the dealer on Saturday and had a reply today:

"I understand your concern at what you have found but in our experience it’s not uncommon."

Hopefully this means I've got nothing to worry about.

Thanks for everyone's opinions. I'll update once I've checked the gauze filter at the next oil change.

John

[SteveThackery]

"I understand your concern at what you have found but in our experience it’s not uncommon."

Hopefully this means I've got nothing to worry about.

Wonderful!  That is all I would have hoped for.  So now the dealer has been alerted to it, in case anything should go amiss in the future, and you have peace of mind.

I think you can safely forget about it.

By the way, it says some seriously bad stuff about RE's manufacturing processes.  How disappointing, bearing in mind how much they've invested in that new factory.

[crock]

I have seen plenty of new engines (not Royal Enfields) with similar or worse coming out of the sump, and they soldiered on forever. You probably don't have much to worry about. Just check the filter on the next oil change and see if anything looks worse.

[Ragmas]

This one is way out there but here we go, could it be engine sealer?  That stuff can harden up pretty well. Of course I don't have my hands on it to be able to say but just a thought.  I remember early on with mine there were some chunks that came out and they were quite rigid and silver but they were hardened silicone or whatever they use to seal things up.

2 cents.

Samgar

[ace.cafe]

I guess they don't make 'em like they used to!

I have had a lot of Iron Barrel RE engines apart, and have never seen metal like that come out unless something was broken. Must be a by-product of that new automated high speed production.

[JohnDL]

Hi all.

I've resurrected my post from last year to give an update for any new GT owners facing the same thing.

I've just changed the oil after 2400 miles ready for some decent riding weather - hopefully!

I put a sieve underneath the oil as it drained - no more bits of metal! Also, the gauze filter had only a few tiny flakes of aluminium. 

So it does seem normal to see some debris during the first few oil changes - presumably flushing out the stuff that should've been cleaned out prior to assembly.

John

[Ice]

 You should have seen the swarf that came out of the Iron Barrels at oil changes during break in back in their day.

 

[Kevin Mahoney]

RE engines were put together (including UCE) without cleaning the parts before assembly. I am not saying dirty parts, but parts that has not been cleaned in an industrial fashion. The result was a lot of stuff that showed up on the magnets and in oil for the first couple of oil changes. It was harmless but very disconcerting. You would have found the same on many other engines. Ducati's were famous for it.

 That left us with the problem of "fuzz". It took a while for RE to "go there" but they finally realized that it came from the cotton gloves the fellows were wearing while assembling certain parts of the engine. The engine halves come from an oven and the bearings are dropping into them. As they cool the bearing are held tight.

[PerazziMx14]

I changed the oil in my 2012 at 37 miles, 138 miles and at 550 miles and there was nothing in the screen or filter and only a tiny bit of black swarf on the drain plug each time.