[gizzo]

Hi guys. This last week I've noticed my CGT's engine has a tappety noise,you know like when the hydraulic lifters in an old engine become tired? Did a bit of a search and came across a few old threads about cam gears needing adusting. Is that still a thing? The old threads say it ought to be done at about 500 miles but I can guarantee it wasn't done, or even known about, by my dealer at it's first services. My engine has about 5500km, oil changed about 1500km ago. Still runs fine,just has the tappet noise.
Thanks.

[NorEaster]

what are you running for oil?

[Mr.Mazza]

Could be the auto decomp being rattly, does it go if the rpm slightly rises?

[gizzo]

Whatever oil they put in it when it was serviced: I took it to the Other enfield dealer for it's logbook service, to keep the warranty happy. I had thought about changing it for my favourite thumper friendly diesel oil but if it's the gears, that's not going to fix it and if it's the lifters, ticking for another 1000km til service time shouldn't do any harm.
The Decomp has always jingled a bit, it's a new noise, deeper in note and sounds just like a worn out lifter. Doesn't seem to go away as RPM goes up as far as I can tell.
I might drop in to see them and ask if they know anything about it.

[ace.cafe]

If you adjust the cam spindles for cam gear lash, just be sure to not make them too tight! Make sure that the gears go all the way around without any tight spots.  No binding. They should go around smoothly.
Making it tight can cause problems.

[gizzo]

Yep, I got that from the other posts. Is it likely that the gear lash can cause the tappet noise? I'm trying to imagine why that would be the case. Just want to be sure it's worth persuing before I start pulling stuff apart. + I have no real idea how noisy they should be before I start worrying about it.
Cheers.
s

[johno]

sounds a bit silly, but check the header nuts are tight. on the 500's they have a habit of working loose, so the header rattles even if the exhaust is not leaking.

[ace.cafe]

Yep, I got that from the other posts. Is it likely that the gear lash can cause the tappet noise? I'm trying to imagine why that would be the case. Just want to be sure it's worth persuing before I start pulling stuff apart. + I have no real idea how noisy they should be before I start worrying about it.
Cheers.
s

Cam lash is a minor contributor to noise. Also, if it is making noise, the gears have already worn to that setting, so tightening lash then is probably a moot point.

I think that many UCE owners worry too much about these noises. The iron barrel sounds like a bag of spanners rattling around, and it works just fine.

[ROVERMAN]

+100 ON THE HEADER NUTS! Ask me how i know.
Roverman.

[NorEaster]

I think that many UCE owners worry too much about these noises. The iron barrel sounds like a bag of spanners rattling around, and it works just fine.

+1 having only been a UCE owner I have come to learn that there are just some inherent noises even though everything is ok. My C5 had some tick to it and I had it checked out and was told everything is ok.

[gizzo]

Thanks guys. I get that it's noisy engine, just that this one is a new noise and am unsure whether to do something about it. When I have time I'll visit the Enfield guy and ask him to have a listen. He bunked off early yesterday.

[Kevin Mahoney]

Quite commonly that noise can be attributed to cam lash. We drove ourselves crazy trying to fix it using other "cures" until the factory had more experience with the engine. Adjusting them is absurdly easy, I would highly suggest getting the book http://www.nfieldgear.com/uce-factory-service-manual/
which you should have anyway. Basically you adjust each spindle until there is zero play between the gears yet the gears will slide into and out mesh with each other (up and down) like butter. Once you do it you will instantly see that there is only one position where both are possible.

Also there is a reason we sell shirts that say "Loud Valves Save Lives". These things are just plain loud which is part of the charm

[gizzo]

Cheers Kevin. If the GT manual comes out in book form I'll be on it like flies on shit. Is the lash like Ace says, once it's been loose for a while it's a bit late to go changing it?

[Kevin Mahoney]

Not too late at all. It is a normal adjustment over the life of the engine. No need to worry about gear wear

[ace.cafe]

It won't hurt to do it, like Kevin says. Just don't make it too tight.

[gizzo]

Thanks fellas. Maybe I'll have a shot at it.  I watched a vid of an Indian guy doing it on YouTube last night. Seems doable. Adjust so lash is taken up but can be pulled out easily, lifter on down ramp, rocker and pushrods out, right? Can't be any harder than adjusting desmo valves, eh? BTW, is there any chance the GT manual is coming out in a printed copy?
Thanks again

[mattsz]

Funny - the book came out in printed form, and everyone wanted a cheaper digital copy!  Gizzo, the GT manual is the same book as for the other UCE bikes, with some special stuff added for the GT.

Surprised nobody has asked yet... do you have a video or audio recording of the noise?  Sometimes it makes it pretty obvious what's going on to the smart guys here ...

[gizzo]

Yeah, I don't really like electronic books that much. Just not into them and I'd rather pay extra to have a printed copy. Sometimes it's nice to be able to do something without a screen,you know? Probs not much point making a vid of the noise. It would likely be drowned out by the usual noises.

[Arizoni]

Somehow, greasy and oily finger prints all over the face of a tablet or smartphone screen doesn't seem to have the character and traditional feel of the dog eared pages in an old fashioned book.

On the other hand, being able to use a pdf "advanced search" on my computer to find all of the information about something in the electronic files is a handy way of figuring out where the Indian's hid the information.

That, and the ability to print out the text and photos at a size that can be read without using a magnifying glass is why I rather like the electronic files.

I can even leave my oily/greasy fingerprints on the printed pages in the interest of old fashioned tradition. 

[gizzo]

Visited my local Enfield dealer today to have them listen to the GT. They said it's noisier than the average Enfield but couldn't pin down the source of the rattle. They suggested that seeing it's still under warranty for a year, to just keep riding it and bring it in if it gets worse.
This arvo, I popped off the lifter cover and inlet rocker box (a couple of weeps needed sorting anyway) and found the rocker arm, block and pushrods to be solid. No play there. So that's a good thing. Tried getting the exhaust rocker box off too, but one hex screw is too tight and I feared rounding the hex before it undid. A good job for the workshop.
The oil has 1000km to go, and I'll see if it quietens down with an oil change.

[gizzo]

I've decided I'll get the digital download of the service manual but just to be clear, from anyone who has bought it, is it in fact a workshop manual which details the repair of the motorcycle, or is it a service training manual which instructs dealer mechanics on how to service ie: perform standard servicing to RE but not so much a repair manual? Thanks y'all.

[gashousegorilla]

This arvo, I popped off the lifter cover and inlet rocker box (a couple of weeps needed sorting anyway) and found the rocker arm, block and pushrods to be solid. No play there. So that's a good thing. Tried getting the exhaust rocker box off too, but one hex screw is too tight and I feared rounding the hex before it undid. A good job for the workshop.
The oil has 1000km to go, and I'll see if it quietens down with an oil change.

   Well, if you still have that intake cover off.  I would give that exhaust side another go.  A couple of taps on the head of the bolt with a hammer.  Get a good bite with the Allan wrench and she should snap loose.    Get the motor at TDC on the compression stroke... both valves closed, piston at the top of it's travel and lifter's  on the base circle's of the cams.    The bike in fifth and rotating the back wheel will get ya there.

 Initially.... you should feel no play or down ward push into the lifter at the rocker arm/push rod side. Although, you will likely find that you can rotate the push rods between your fingers.  Let everthing sit for about an hour.  Come back and see if you can feel a push down .... it may be slight... into the lifter at the rocker arm/ pushrod side.  A pumped lifter is not unheard of on these motors.....

[mattsz]

I've decided I'll get the digital download of the service manual but just to be clear, from anyone who has bought it, is it in fact a workshop manual which details the repair of the motorcycle, or is it a service training manual which instructs dealer mechanics on how to service ie: perform standard servicing to RE but not so much a repair manual? Thanks y'all.

It is more of a repair manual rather than a maintenance manual.  But it does make some assumptions about the users knowledge, or maybe they're just omissions.  You won't find the true detail and step-by-step instructions of a nice Clymer manual.  And there's some mistakes in there, too, but so too were there in my Clymer BMW manual.

One thing to note - at least on the cd-rom version, the GT manual actually consists of a few documents: you get the UCE manual from the 500 cc Bullet bikes, with addendums covering the GT-specific details.  You will not be told this when you order.  So there will be a bit of stuff in the main book which won't apply to you, and you'll have to wade through that yourself.  But the engine stuff should be pretty much the same, except for the specs on the piston and bore sizes.

The GT addendums are better quality publications, so I ordered the CD, hoping to get better engine instruction as well - I discussed this with those guys when I ordered it - but they didn't tell me that I'd be getting the book I already owned and sent it anyway.  I returned the CD.  I submitted a review to their old site explaining this so future buyers would know, but the review was never posted.  When suggestions were being solicited for their new site, I suggested they mention this in their product description - it isn't there.  I don't know why it's a secret... 

[gizzo]

Thanks Matt. I'll get the download then.
Cheers .

[mattsz]

As has been said, the digital editions are searchable PDF's which is GREAT for locating pages and part numbers quickly...

[Kevin Mahoney]

Really good point about the description of the CD. We throw in the other manual because we think the GT manual does not cover it or the EFI very well. Same deal however.

If you think the GT manual is better than the UCE manual you should have seen the 1995- 2005 manuals