Author Topic: New 400cc and 600cc, any truth to it ?? (Read 12765 times)

kiwihintz · **on:** January 04, 2015, 02:24:24 am

http://weroyalriders.com/royal-enfields-new-600-cc-and-400-cc-engines/1823/

High On Octane · **Reply #1 on:** January 04, 2015, 02:42:39 am

There were rumors of these motors mid 2014. Being that the CGT was a rumor at first, this very well could be true.

suitcasejefferson · **Reply #2 on:** January 04, 2015, 04:03:04 am

I don't really understand Royal Enfield's need for new models. My understanding is that they already cannot produce enough to meet demand. That does seem a little odd, because I just went in and bought mine off the dealer floor. Maybe it is mostly the Indian market.

The Royal Enfield appeals to a very specific type of rider. The appeal is based on the look, sound, feel, and simplicity. If you read most general motorcycle forums, you find the RE is not very well thought of, because most everybody seems to want exactly the opposite. They want lots of plastic, smooth and quiet, lots of technology, whether it does any good or not. This generally means a Japanese bike. I got a RE to get away from what Japanese bikes have become.

It seems the new Continental GT is not a great seller. Since it is a beautiful bike, IMO anyway, and the price is not bad at all compared to Japanese bikes, and it has twice the warranty, I feel the main reason must be the riding position. That's my issue with it. As beautiful as it is, I would not be able to handle the low bars and rearset pegs.

I definitely hope that they do not try to do a cruiser. I ride cruisers because of their comfort. But cruisers have been done to death. Most of the newer Japanese cruisers are Harley copies. I think the Triumph Speedmaster, America, and new Thunderbird are abominations.

Honda's new CTX has shown that a bike can have cruiser ergos, without looking like a Harley. Unfortunately that bike is about as exciting as a paperweight.

I would like to see Royal Enfield remain as a niche brand in the U.S. Mine gets lots of attention, because it is something you don't see everyday. And the B5 has retained enough of it's original look to fool most people into thinking it really is a vintage bike, which, EFI notwithstanding, it pretty much is.

Ducati Scotty · **Reply #3 on:** January 04, 2015, 05:16:40 am

Most if what they do is steered by the domestic market. The export is a very small percentage for them. But Harley and others are making inroads to the Indian domestic market recently, so RE can't just sell the same old bikes or they'll start losing market share. 600cc is bigger than the small Harley at 500cc. Interesting that they might be moving the smaller bike to fuel injection there.

Scott

mattb · **Reply #4 on:** January 04, 2015, 09:29:54 am

The bottom end of the 350 iron barrel was always, reportedly, more reliable than that on the 500. I wonder whether these upsized engines will be as reliable at the big end as our UCEs. (Says the fellow who just bought a new 500 and wants to console himself on the torque he potentially missed out on.)

Quote from: suitcasejefferson on January 04, 2015, 04:03:04 am

I definitely hope that they do not try to do a cruiser.

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, but I could never understand what attracted non-Indians to the Royal Enfield Thunderbird. So ugly, so incapable, and so unreliable and under-powered compared to any other cruiser.

JohnDL · **Reply #5 on:** January 04, 2015, 09:33:59 am

There's an interesting article here:
http://businesstoday.intoday.in/story/best-indian-ceos-2014-siddhartha-lal-eicher-motors-auto/1/212745.html

I think the hiring of Harley's senior Vice President of Global Sales & Customer Service employee Rod Copes as RE President for north America, and ex Ducati designer Pierre Treblanche indicates they mean business and we'll see big changes in the next few years.

John

kiwihintz · **Reply #6 on:** January 04, 2015, 10:04:07 am

Interesting to think they may play with engine capacity. I enjoy riding the 2010 c5 and had done plenty of modifications including 19t sprocket and PC5 to bring the most out of the engine and at least for here in Western Australia the performance I`ve found to be only just practical for roads out of town. If RE bring out a slightly larger capacity single with upgraded frame etc I think it will bring about a more versatile bike, opening up doors for more comfortable and practical long range riding. Don`t get me wrong I whole heartedly love my 500 teal, and believe it to be an exceptionally great bike to own, but evolution isn't a bad thing either....... just look at Aniket and the Ace team are doing.
I will say however.... I totally agree with the lads that say it better not be a bloody cruiser!

ace.cafe · **Reply #7 on:** January 04, 2015, 10:40:43 am

It seems clear, if the rumors are true, that this is again aimed at the India home market.

Given the past history of the attempts at the 600cc range(612 and 625) it seems likely that the will stroke it to 100+mm. This has not yielded the stronger and smoother highway bike in the past, but it did give more low rpm grunt which is important in India for carrying heavy loads in slow traffic. I have not been a fan of that approach, but it does have its applications in the home market.

I suppose we'll just have to wait and see what these things will be, and what they will do.

Regarding the old 350 bottom end, it was the same as the 500, but the con-rod has a slightly narrower size at the small end to clear the smaller cylinder barrel. The issues with the 500 came from the larger heavier piston adding stress. Put in a lighter piston of good design and it's fine.

tooseevee · **Reply #8 on:** January 04, 2015, 01:21:09 pm

Quote from: suitcasejefferson on January 04, 2015, 04:03:04 am

I don't really understand Royal Enfield's need for new models. My understanding is that they already cannot produce enough to meet demand. That does seem a little odd, because I just went in and bought mine off the dealer floor. Maybe it is mostly the Indian market.

The Royal Enfield appeals to a very specific type of rider. The appeal is based on the look, sound, feel, and simplicity. If you read most general motorcycle forums, you find the RE is not very well thought of, because most everybody seems to want exactly the opposite. They want lots of plastic, smooth and quiet, lots of technology, whether it does any good or not. This generally means a Japanese bike. I got a RE to get away from what Japanese bikes have become.

It seems the new Continental GT is not a great seller. Since it is a beautiful bike, IMO anyway, and the price is not bad at all compared to Japanese bikes, and it has twice the warranty, I feel the main reason must be the riding position. That's my issue with it. As beautiful as it is, I would not be able to handle the low bars and rearset pegs.

I definitely hope that they do not try to do a cruiser. I ride cruisers because of their comfort. But cruisers have been done to death. Most of the newer Japanese cruisers are Harley copies. I think the Triumph Speedmaster, America, and new Thunderbird are abominations.

Honda's new CTX has shown that a bike can have cruiser ergos, without looking like a Harley. Unfortunately that bike is about as exciting as a paperweight.

I would like to see Royal Enfield remain as a niche brand in the U.S. Mine gets lots of attention, because it is something you don't see everyday. And the B5 has retained enough of it's original look to fool most people into thinking it really is a vintage bike, which, EFI notwithstanding, it pretty much is.

All that may very well be true, but the U.S. isn't Royal Enfield's market. We are a tiny bit of their bottom line. They don't really care what we want. We have to like what they offer here or get over it. I like my '08 AVL Classic for exactly the reasons that other people dislike it & Enfields in general. Exactly the same for the garage-built harleys I've been riding 40 some odd years.

Sometimes I glance at the Enfield & I'm immediately 11 years old again in 1949 laying on my bed looking at British bike brochures that I sent for out of Popular Mechanics & Mechanics Illustrated. I had dozens of them that I stared at for hours trying to figure everything out (Zundapp Bella scooters, too) while at the same time I was riding behind my mom's boyfriend on a '46 knucklehead. I was imprinted very early

ToesNose · **Reply #9 on:** January 04, 2015, 03:26:14 pm

Maybe they are looking to move up to 400 & 600 displacements and doing away with the 350 & 500's? Could be part of their future marketing plans to expand into more foreign markets, personally I think it would be a shame to change such a long standing staple which has helped define the Bullet if this is their intention

Ducati Scotty · **Reply #10 on:** January 04, 2015, 03:31:58 pm

The 500 displacement came from the racing class at the TT I believe. While it has historical significance, Harley and Triumph have shown you can sell plenty of bikes just on nostalgia without being historically accurate.

Scott

ace.cafe · **Reply #11 on:** January 04, 2015, 03:42:43 pm

If they bore it for larger displacement, they will have an improvement in the world market
If the stroke it for displacement, they will have more vibration issues and it will hold back the hp numbers because of the inherently lower revving limits of the longer stroke.
If they do both, like the old 612, then it will be like those were. More downside than upside. But it makes a good tractor!

For a platform which already gets more than its share of criticism for vibration problems, it is not prudent to turn it into a paint-shaker by lengthening the stroke. IMHO, of course.
But, what do I know!?

mattsz · **Reply #12 on:** January 04, 2015, 03:50:53 pm

Another round of rumors. The pics in that article tell me all I need to know about what we'll get out of the text...

High On Octane · **Reply #13 on:** January 04, 2015, 04:07:59 pm

Quote from: mattsz on January 04, 2015, 03:50:53 pm

Another round of rumors. The pics in that article tell me all I need to know about what we'll get out of the text...

Agreed. WTH did they have a pic of the Musket?

RE had nothing to do with that engine other than they originally supplied the core, at one time. It's not even an RE engine case anymore, that was solely Aniket's work, and the story implies them taking credit for it, even tho very close to that pic in the article, it says straight out "RE still has no intentions of building a multi-cylinder engine". Kind of silly if you ask me.

singhg5 · **Reply #14 on:** January 04, 2015, 04:41:32 pm

Some people just put together hotchpotch of rumours, speculations and pictures from internet into one article and publish in whatever medium they can as shown in WeRoyalRiders. There is not a single statement from RE nor from Sidharth Lal or any trustworthy source to back up what this guy is writing. The author fortunately acknowledges that this is just his guess work by stating frequently 'RE is RUMOURED to be working', and 'RE is holding its cards close', and 'as per our sources'. I just ignore such articles. I will just wait and see.

ace.cafe · **Reply #15 on:** January 04, 2015, 05:03:07 pm

The rumor is seen in several publications, touted to have reliable sources for the info.
I would say that the chances of it being true are very good.
Also, some of the articles say it will be introduced in a new model, such as an Adventure bike or perhaps a Motard, both being popular styles.

It certainly would help sales to have entries in those market segments.

High On Octane · **Reply #16 on:** January 04, 2015, 05:30:17 pm

Oooh! That would be sweet if they made a Motard!

1 Thump · **Reply #17 on:** January 04, 2015, 06:39:07 pm

Just for reference, the following new (to the Indian market) bikes will be available for sale in India this year: http://auto.ndtv.com/news/upcoming-bikes-and-scooters-in-india-2015-717662?pfrom=home-auto
An interesting blend of small 99cc air cooled bikes to beemers, ducatis etc.

Ducati Scotty · **Reply #18 on:** January 04, 2015, 07:25:48 pm

Quote from: High On Octane on January 04, 2015, 05:30:17 pm

Oooh! That would be sweet if they made a Motard!

Maybe. But maybe some people said that about a cruiser, and they made the Thunderbird. Careful what you wish

singhg5 · **Reply #19 on:** January 04, 2015, 10:05:16 pm

I did not mean to say that RE is sitting still or asleep. There is no doubt that RE could be developing something behind the scenes. There are too many motorcycle models and companies in India that can take over the market.

RE is pretty good at keeping the lid on their research and development as they have shown by working quietly for long time on the UCE EFI models that were eventually successfully launched. RE has made it clear that they will stay approximately in 300 to 700 cc range. They are also not into crotch rockets which further narrows down the field for the development of new models/engines which may be single cylinder or a twin.

Speculation of one of the articles may come true - not due to accurate knowledge of the writer but due to a small number of permutation combinations for potential design of engine. Of the several articles, one of them will be vindicated by a chance prediction amongst the fewer possibilities.

In this age of unlimited internet websites, numerous print and video media, it is not uncommon to pretty much copy and paste from one to another - sometimes as is and at other times with slight modification. Copycats abound, like news channels repeating same news or same speculation.

It becomes pretty hard to believe unless the author is well established, knowledgeable, trustworthy and has access to undisclosed information. Which of these authors has a solid track record of writing such articles ?? There is too much stuff on the internet which is questionable. Only a few sources are reliable. That is why I pay less attention to many of them especially coming from Indian media (I was born there ). Not that all Indian media is unreliable but I tend to be selective. There are too many copycats there.

Kevin Mahoney · **Reply #20 on:** January 04, 2015, 10:19:43 pm

I cannot comment on what I know, but...... the owner has said publicly many times that he sees the niche as 250cc to 750cc. I can say that we will not see a 750 anytime soon. After the Cafe Racer debacle where they announced the bike as being market ready about 8 times over the course of several years they have become quite tight lipped.

Kevin Mahoney · **Reply #21 on:** January 04, 2015, 10:38:30 pm

They mean business, how they do outside of India remains to be seen. Glad they are not resting on their laurels. They jumped on the treadmill once they started to meet the challenge huge sales of the C5 presented.
On the upside they inveset most if not all of what they make back into the brand and to fund their growth - (RE has NO debt. Find another motorcycle company that can say that).
Once big money starts to get invested, new plants built etc. the race is on to keep producing and selling more and more product. You really are on a treadmill.
Good people have been hired. The most promising thing I see is that they are starting to hire professionals from outside of India. This is a first and will help them enormously. They want to be a global company but in reality are an Indian company that sells internationally. I think they are making the right moves to change this so they can play with the big boys globally. We already make at least 5 times as many bikes as Triumph and quite a few more than Harley. So far so good.

Kevin Mahoney · **Reply #22 on:** January 04, 2015, 10:40:40 pm

Referring to a comment below there are no reliable sources at RE when it comes to this kind of thing. Most of this is closely held even within the company. I am in the "know" and am always amused at what I see in the press.

suitcasejefferson · **Reply #23 on:** January 05, 2015, 05:49:37 am

Some things have to change, but I don't see why everything does. We need a connection to the past, and we need an escape from the oppressive technology that controls almost every aspect of our lives. For those who ride motorcycles, a brand new vintage design bike would seem to be the perfect answer. If RE joins the Japanese with their dull, boring, high tech bikes, they won't have a chance, because the Japanese have better reliability. I love my Enfield, but I am not crazy enough to think it will last 200,000 miles with no problems like some Japanese bikes will. But what I get in return is worth many times more than what I give up, at least to me. It doesn't matter how high quality a motorcycle is, if it is boring, it is worthless, at least to me.

Harley was mentioned. I like Harleys, for much the same reason I like Enfields. Character and personality. I like the sound and feel. Nothing smooth and quiet about a Harley. I almost bought a used Sportster before buying the Enfield. The one thing I don't like about Harleys is the elitist attitude of many of those who ride them. I also don't like the outlaw image that goes with riding a Harley.

But, IMO anyway, Harley is also going down the wrong road. I would not be interested a Harley with the Twin Cam engine, I believe they are cheaply built and inferior in every way to the EVO. Now Harley is going to liquid cooling??? They have managed to preserve their feel, and the sound, IF you use aftermarket pipes. Their Screamin Eagle pipes are just as quiet as the stock pipes now. Seems like Harley has joined the enemy and is now building politically correct bikes. Enfield is headed in that direction, fortunately a carb and a cat free pipe returns the Enfield to what it should be. (or at least what I think it should be) How long before a liquid cooled Enfield, or even an electric one? Harley has an electric bike.

I have ridden the new Harley Street 750. I found it ugly, boring, and the fit and finish was far worse than it is on my Enfield. If these bikes are creating competition for RE, riders over there must be crazy.

Looks like I am going to have to make the switch to real vintage bikes at some point. I've already done so with cars. I have a '47 Chevy Fleetline and a '64 Ford Fairlane. The Fairlane is my daily driver.

Russ · **Reply #24 on:** January 05, 2015, 02:36:32 pm

Hiring Harley's R.Copes is a waste of time and money. RE NEEDS DEALERS> !!!Dealers,Dealers,Dealers !! I have ridden all kinds of bikes for nearly 50 years. I had been fascinated by RE's the whole time and thought it would be neat to own one. Imagine. After living here in Pennsylvania for 55 years, I just found out there is a "dealer" 8 miles ...EIGHT MILES from my house. I put dealer in quote marks because the dealership is in a steel shed in the owners back yard. No showroom. I found out he is one of the more respected RE people with a reputation for excellent service and extensive RE knowledge. Bikers come from Pittsburgh to his shop (a 150 mile round trip) . He doesn't sell any other brands and doesn't make a living selling bikes. He's retired and is in the busines for the love of the bikes. BUT....Royal Enfield cannot become any bigger in the U.S. without massive advertising and a dealer network with showrooms and a knowledgeable mechanic. I Copes doesn't recognize dealeship as a problem that must be solved, you will not get any NEW customers for RE. It's hard to sell a bike when the owner has to become a backyard mechanic because the dealer doesn't know what he's doing.

tooseevee · **Reply #25 on:** January 05, 2015, 05:46:34 pm

Quote from: 1 Thump on January 04, 2015, 06:39:07 pm

Just for reference, the following new (to the Indian market) bikes will be available for sale in India this year: http://auto.ndtv.com/news/upcoming-bikes-and-scooters-in-india-2015-717662?pfrom=home-auto
An interesting blend of small 99cc air cooled bikes to beemers, ducatis etc.

Very interesting blend of bikes there.

I love exposed mechanicals, the more the better, but so many look so Skeletorish now, more & more every year, that they seem to only look comfortable to me in a Transformers movie.

I love the little Vespa-like things. Maybe when I'm 80.

I'd love to see that harley without that horrible oogally radiator.

Suitcase: I agree with a lot of what you say on a lot of subjects here. Vintage cars have been a huge part of my whole 77 years. I grew up with my mom's '47 Fleetline Blue Flame & loved it. Got my own '40 Ford in '54.

Catbird · **Reply #26 on:** January 05, 2015, 08:18:25 pm

Quote from: suitcasejefferson on January 04, 2015, 04:03:04 am

...Honda's new CTX has shown that a bike can have cruiser ergos, without looking like a Harley. Unfortunately that bike is about as exciting as a paperweight...

I have a CTX700N; I beg to differ.

Russ · **Reply #27 on:** January 05, 2015, 08:46:46 pm

Catbird can "differ" because he has aC5 to use when the paperweight isn't available.

Catbird · **Reply #28 on:** January 05, 2015, 09:00:10 pm

I can enjoy my rides on my paperweight when the C5 bone shaker is out of commission.

motorman2whel · **Reply #29 on:** January 06, 2015, 12:33:17 am

Quote from: tooseevee on January 04, 2015, 01:21:09 pm

All that may very well be true, but the U.S. isn't Royal Enfield's market. We are a tiny bit of their bottom line. They don't really care what we want. We have to like what they offer here or get over it. I like my '08 AVL Classic for exactly the reasons that other people dislike it & Enfields in general. Exactly the same for the garage-built harleys I've been riding 40 some odd years.

Sometimes I glance at the Enfield & I'm immediately 11 years old again in 1949 laying on my bed looking at British bike brochures that I sent for out of Popular Mechanics & Mechanics Illustrated. I had dozens of them that I stared at for hours trying to figure everything out (Zundapp Bella scooters, too) while at the same time I was riding behind my mom's boyfriend on a '46 knucklehead. I was imprinted very early

Yes... I started a bit later (mid 60s) and can still picture the Norton ads in magazines and "The Norton Girls" in those ads were So Nice, a sexy bike & a sexy woman will catch a guys eye

. That Harley 500 looks a lot like A 83 Honda VT500 Ascot with some VT500 Shadow thrown in.

High On Octane · **Reply #30 on:** January 06, 2015, 12:53:47 am

Quote from: motorman2whel on January 06, 2015, 12:33:17 am

Yes... I started a bit later (mid 60s) and can still picture the Norton ads in magazines and "The Norton Girls" in those ads were So Nice, a sexy bike & a sexy woman will catch a guys eye . That Harley 500 looks a lot like A 83 Honda VT500 Ascot with some VT500 Shadow thrown in.

I just gave my 17 year old step-son my 2015 Snap-On mini bikini calendar.

crock · **Reply #31 on:** January 06, 2015, 01:26:33 am

A 400 cc bike is necessary for the Japanese market because of their licensing requirements. I belive you could make a 400cc bike from the current 500 cc with no changes other than the piston, the crank, and the fuel injection computer's programming.

A 600 cc bike seems like a problem...unless they make it a twin with a counterbalancer. I would buy an "authentic replica" British twin if it came with a counterbalancer in it. IMHO the Brits would still be in business if they had addressed the vibration issues of their big twins. Technically, the existence of the modern Triumph Bonneville proves this is true. A really lightweight, say 425 lb, 650 cc twin would fill a niche in the market for a practical do it all street bike on American and European roads. Kawasaki pulled the plug on their W650 before most people even knew the bike was available. Harley is going after the same market right now with their small twins. We will see how well they do.

A big problem for Royal Enfield is that the developed world has roads capable of 70-80 mph cruising speeds and a 500 cc single can't handle those velocities for long. A middle weight bike should be able to handle 80 mph all day long to be successful in international markets.

Ducati Scotty · **Reply #32 on:** January 06, 2015, 01:39:47 am

The Versys and V-Strom both fill that 650 do-it-all niche and sell very well. Like you, I wish there was a more standard style bike like that available in the US. The Honda CB is great but bigger than I want. The Bonneville and V7 Stone come close.

Scott

suitcasejefferson · **Reply #33 on:** January 06, 2015, 01:58:23 am

I totally agree RE needs more dealers in the U.S. (my closest dealer is 120 miles away) but I also believe there will never be a big market for "real" Royal Enfields in the U.S. The Japanese have the non Harley/BMW market wrapped up with their high tech but boring bikes. Sadly not many in the U.S. are interested in real motorcycles anymore. The Yamaha SR400 is predicted to fail here, because it does not have an electric starter. IMO, if you can't kickstart, and maintain, your bike, you probably shouldn't be riding one. Modern bikes are getting scary close to modern cars, er, I mean transportation appliances. More computer parts than mechanical parts. As I've said before, it takes a special kind of rider to appreciate (and deal with) a RE. Many so called modern riders seem to want a bike that rides itself. They just get on, kick back (or is that lean forward) and enjoy the ride.

I would love to have an exact replica of a mid '60s Bonneville, without a counterbalancer, but built out of modern materials using modern manufacturing techniques. A few out of site parts could be redesigned to make it more reliable, but nothing that changed the look, feel, or sound of it. It could use modern cables, Mikuni carbs, and Japanese electrics. Both the engine and frame could be descreetly beefed up to handle the vibration, instead of trying to get rid of it. Just imagine a new vintage bike with all the looks, feel, and sound of the real thing, but with modern reliability. What a dream. Unfortunately a dream is all it is likely to ever be. Meanwhile I'm going for another ride on my RE tomorrow, after changing the oil today.

Catbird · **Reply #34 on:** January 06, 2015, 02:31:48 am

Maybe it's just me, but I think that if RE could come up with something like the Ducati Scrambler, it would do very well in the marketplace.

High On Octane · **Reply #35 on:** January 06, 2015, 03:12:19 am

SCJ - I totally agree with you. And what you said about a modernized Bonneville is exactly what I'm going to be building for my twin. Nothing super crazy but steel rods, forged pistons, better bearings and regrind the cams. I already have electronic ignition installed, converted to 12v and all the Lucas crap removed.

krimp · **Reply #36 on:** January 06, 2015, 04:34:49 pm

Quote from: Ducati Scotty on January 06, 2015, 01:39:47 am

The Versys and V-Strom both fill that 650 do-it-all niche and sell very well. Like you, I wish there was a more standard style bike like that available in the US. The Honda CB is great but bigger than I want. The Bonneville and V7 Stone come close.

Scott

I find it interesting that you mentioned a Versys. I'm looking at a Versys 650LT for my second bike. From everything I have read, it looks like it would fill my need for a touring bike and still not be much larger than my RE. I have plans to take a trip to my local dealer this weekend.

ace.cafe · **Reply #37 on:** January 06, 2015, 09:38:16 pm

Quote from: suitcasejefferson on January 06, 2015, 01:58:23 am

I totally agree RE needs more dealers in the U.S. (my closest dealer is 120 miles away) but I also believe there will never be a big market for "real" Royal Enfields in the U.S. The Japanese have the non Harley/BMW market wrapped up with their high tech but boring bikes. Sadly not many in the U.S. are interested in real motorcycles anymore. The Yamaha SR400 is predicted to fail here, because it does not have an electric starter. IMO, if you can't kickstart, and maintain, your bike, you probably shouldn't be riding one. Modern bikes are getting scary close to modern cars, er, I mean transportation appliances. More computer parts than mechanical parts. As I've said before, it takes a special kind of rider to appreciate (and deal with) a RE. Many so called modern riders seem to want a bike that rides itself. They just get on, kick back (or is that lean forward) and enjoy the ride.

I would love to have an exact replica of a mid '60s Bonneville, without a counterbalancer, but built out of modern materials using modern manufacturing techniques. A few out of site parts could be redesigned to make it more reliable, but nothing that changed the look, feel, or sound of it. It could use modern cables, Mikuni carbs, and Japanese electrics. Both the engine and frame could be descreetly beefed up to handle the vibration, instead of trying to get rid of it. Just imagine a new vintage bike with all the looks, feel, and sound of the real thing, but with modern reliability. What a dream. Unfortunately a dream is all it is likely to ever be. Meanwhile I'm going for another ride on my RE tomorrow, after changing the oil today.

A Royal Enfield Buillet with an Ace Fireball engine is as fast as the Triumph or BSA 650/750 twins of the 1960s. It will do everything they could do, and get much better fuel economy doing it. And they last 50k miles. And yes, I'm talking about the old "Iron Barrel" Bullet model.

This is where "the dream" lives, but few people seem to recognize it. It IS the 1950s vintage bike with the modern powerful and reliable engine with Mikuni carb and electronic ignition, and all the charm of the real vintage machine, and high performance. You'll have to take care of the electrical stuff on your own.

And if you'd rather have it with a custom Featherbed frame and custom bodywork, using the Enfield forks and swingarm and wheels, we have that available too. We have a custom featherbed frame builder that is working with us. ChuckD's bike will be completed shortly, and he has the Super Fireball GP engine going in the custom Featherbed frame, and Manx style bodywork. Pics will be posted when that is finished.

Sometimes I wonder why people don't look at what we are doing with the Bullet.

pmanaz1973 · **Reply #38 on:** January 06, 2015, 10:28:58 pm

Quote from: ace.cafe on January 06, 2015, 09:38:16 pm

Sometimes I wonder why people don't look at what we are doing with the Bullet.

No disrespect intended, but there is a lot of "ACE" motorcycle related company names out there. Even when you Google "ACE Royal Enfield", all you get is a yahoo group site. Do you have a Website or storefront? I have a number of Bullet riding friends who do not use this forum (silly, I know) that have looked for performance parts and I've pointed them your way, but they couldn't find your company easily on-line. Again, no disrespect intended at all, just want to relay what I've heard from my friends.

ace.cafe · **Reply #39 on:** January 06, 2015, 10:41:10 pm

Quote from: pmanaz1973 on January 06, 2015, 10:28:58 pm

No disrespect intended, but there is a lot of "ACE" motorcycle related company names out there. Even when you Google "ACE Royal Enfield", all you get is a yahoo group site. Do you have a Website or storefront? I have a number of Bullet riding friends who do not use this forum (silly, I know) that have looked for performance parts and I've pointed them your way, but they couldn't find your company easily on-line. Again, no disrespect intended at all, just want to relay what I've heard from my friends.

Yes, what we have is the Yahoo Group forum site.
We are a custom business, and so everything must be ordered from me as a custom part or custom build. We don't have anything "on the shelf". We cannot do a "web store" or a "shopping cart". So, there is no benefit in having any other website. There is full discussion on all the topics on our Yahoo Group, and we provide full technical support there, and by email and/or even by phone if required. We help each person achieve their goals individually, and custom make the products that they need to achieve it.

We currently have near 40 builds out there on the road, and some with 5 years of riding on them. Some with around 50k miles. A Bullet like that is not going to be made with "off the shelf" parts ordered from a website. It needs a lot of consultation and tech support which I provide with all our customer builds. This is what sets us apart from all the others. This is what makes a successful build happen.

Just steer them to our Yahoo Group, or have them email me directly. I can take it from there.
Thanks!

Ducati Scotty · **Reply #40 on:** January 06, 2015, 11:08:39 pm

Quote from: krimp on January 06, 2015, 04:34:49 pm

I find it interesting that you mentioned a Versys. I'm looking at a Versys 650LT for my second bike. From everything I have read, it looks like it would fill my need for a touring bike and still not be much larger than my RE. I have plans to take a trip to my local dealer this weekend.

From what I hear the Versys feels lighter and smaller than the V-Strom. The engine can be a bit vibey.

krimp · **Reply #41 on:** January 06, 2015, 11:27:05 pm

Quote from: Ducati Scotty on January 06, 2015, 11:08:39 pm

From what I hear the Versys feels lighter and smaller than the V-Strom. The engine can be a bit vibey.

I ride an Enfield, vibey isn't an issue.

Warwick · **Reply #42 on:** January 06, 2015, 11:35:18 pm

I am excited about the prospect of a 600cc single with 20% more torque from the standard UCE. I love singles and big bore plodders am glad RE still makes them. Everyone always is complaining about the lack of power of the UCE and I am perplexed that more aren't excited about the potential increase in torque even though revs may suffer.
As for the Iron Barrel ACE is doing great things and I can vouch for the increase in HP gained from the 535 mods. I have a standard bullet and a 535 that is half way as good as ACE's model and the increase in power is significant. However, it is nowhere near as smooth as my standard bullet but its a high compression single which makes it fun even though mudguard stays blinker mountings etc ultimately shake themselves to death. My 535 has the alloy big bore kit, aluminium barrel, alpha bearing big end, roller main bearings, HP oil pump, oversize exhaust valve, mildly ported head and alloy rockers. It was my only form of transport for over a year and has done about 15k. However, I would like at some time to take to the next level with an ACE or big head, better cams, uprated clutch and a larger carb. Unfortunately I made the mistake of not putting a better connecting rod in and will need to split the cases again to do that. I am the only one of my mates to have an RE and I know that it is almost impossible to convince others that they can potentially have Manx like performance. ACE, I feel your pain

armando_chavez · **Reply #43 on:** January 07, 2015, 12:14:38 am

I do think ACE should have a website for marketing purposes. or an active facebook at least. I love how ACE and those guys are all about constantly helping the customer with any questions they have, even people who havent made purchases get the best of help. there has to be a lot more enfield CI owners out there who dont even realize they can have serious power. even AVL owners, I know in the coming months ill have my avl head sent out for the treatment possibly even with the good rockers and ace cams if i figure out a way to get the clutch to hold down the power. probably due to lack of marketing. Im a college student, ive had many different type of business marketing courses, so i do think there would be a benefit to the ACE name through a website. ACE i do have some ideas for a website i just thought of, if your interested in some help give me a PM.

ace.cafe · **Reply #44 on:** January 07, 2015, 01:04:08 am

Quote from: armando_chavez on January 07, 2015, 12:14:38 am

I do think ACE should have a website for marketing purposes. or an active facebook at least. I love how ACE and those guys are all about constantly helping the customer with any questions they have, even people who havent made purchases get the best of help. there has to be a lot more enfield CI owners out there who dont even realize they can have serious power. even AVL owners, I know in the coming months ill have my avl head sent out for the treatment possibly even with the good rockers and ace cams if i figure out a way to get the clutch to hold down the power. probably due to lack of marketing. Im a college student, ive had many different type of business marketing courses, so i do think there would be a benefit to the ACE name through a website. ACE i do have some ideas for a website i just thought of, if your interested in some help give me a PM.

Thanks.

There are clutch upgrade options which we can advise for you. This is something which we deal with all the time.

mattsz · **Reply #45 on:** January 07, 2015, 03:20:09 am

Quote from: ace.cafe on January 06, 2015, 10:41:10 pm

Yes, what we have is the Yahoo Group forum site.
We are a custom business, and so everything must be ordered from me as a custom part or custom build. We don't have anything "on the shelf". We cannot do a "web store" or a "shopping cart". So, there is no benefit in having any other website.

I think these guys are right... you may not have a "web-store" friendly business model, but I think there would be a benefit to having a "traditional" website - even one that gives people basic info and steers them toward your Yahoo group, so they get there with an understanding of what they're dealing with when they arrive. It's not something that many people are used to, and it may throw some off - it did me, at first.

More work for you, but just sayin'...

Warwick · **Reply #46 on:** January 07, 2015, 09:10:51 am

I love Aces work but the website is difficult to fnid, navigate and purchase from.

SteveThackery · **Reply #47 on:** January 07, 2015, 09:26:02 am

Quote from: mattsz on January 07, 2015, 03:20:09 am

I think these guys are right... you may not have a "web-store" friendly business model, but I think there would be a benefit to having a "traditional" website - even one that gives people basic info and steers them toward your Yahoo group...

I absolutely agree. It doesn't have to be an interactive site - just something with information about what you do, photos, contact details, and a link to the Yahoo group. A non-interactive site is much easier and quicker to put together, so the work shouldn't be too onerous.

Just think of it as an advertising poster.

Chuck D · **Reply #48 on:** January 07, 2015, 10:39:18 am

Quote from: ace.cafe on January 06, 2015, 09:38:16 pm

A Royal Enfield Buillet with an Ace Fireball engine is as fast as the Triumph or BSA 650/750 twins of the 1960s. It will do everything they could do, and get much better fuel economy doing it. And they last 50k miles. And yes, I'm talking about the old "Iron Barrel" Bullet model.

This is where "the dream" lives, but few people seem to recognize it. It IS the 1950s vintage bike with the modern powerful and reliable engine with Mikuni carb and electronic ignition, and all the charm of the real vintage machine, and high performance. You'll have to take care of the electrical stuff on your own.

And if you'd rather have it with a custom Featherbed frame and custom bodywork, using the Enfield forks and swingarm and wheels, we have that available too. We have a custom featherbed frame builder that is working with us. ChuckD's bike will be completed shortly, and he has the Super Fireball GP engine going in the custom Featherbed frame, and Manx style bodywork. Pics will be posted when that is finished.

Sometimes I wonder why people don't look at what we are doing with the Bullet.

Turn it up!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OWepUvs764A

ace.cafe · **Reply #49 on:** January 07, 2015, 01:33:48 pm

Okay guys, I get the message.
Maybe I am a bit too unconventional.

I'll talk to Chumma about it, and perhaps we can get a site up to coincide with the release of the ACE UCE Billet Cylinder Head.

Thanks!

mattsz · **Reply #50 on:** January 07, 2015, 02:27:54 pm

I'm sure that between you, you have plenty of spare time to make a new web page...

Ducati Scotty · **Reply #51 on:** January 07, 2015, 03:30:05 pm

Only $850 for a featherbed frame? Makes me want to mate my SV650 motor and components to it. That'd be a sweet little ride.

Scott

ace.cafe · **Reply #52 on:** January 07, 2015, 03:50:49 pm

Quote from: mattsz on January 07, 2015, 02:27:54 pm

I'm sure that between you, you have plenty of spare time to make a new web page...

One of my favorite sayings is, "In my copious free time...."

ace.cafe · **Reply #53 on:** January 07, 2015, 03:59:52 pm

Quote from: Ducati Scotty on January 07, 2015, 03:30:05 pm

Only $850 for a featherbed frame? Makes me want to mate my SV650 motor and components to it. That'd be a sweet little ride.

Scott

To be honest, I don't actually know the price. Chumma is handling the builds, and working with the frame builder. If he has listed that price somewhere, then that is probably it. It is designed to use Enfield front end and rear end for our use, but anything could be custom made.

Ducati Scotty · **Reply #54 on:** January 07, 2015, 04:23:11 pm

That's what was listed. I'd need to do a whole bunch more to shoehorn and SV motor in there I'm sure, but it'd be a fun project.

It reminds me of the Norley, a frame kit to turn a Harley Sporter into a cafe racer. Really cool little piece of kit.

Sadly, the frames are welded, not bronze welded like the originals. Still, they look really nice. I need to learn to weld.

Scott

mattsz · **Reply #55 on:** January 07, 2015, 06:36:05 pm

Quote from: Ducati Scotty on January 07, 2015, 03:30:05 pm

Only $850 for a featherbed frame? Makes me want to mate my SV650 motor and components to it. That'd be a sweet little ride.

Scott

What is Scott talking about? Is there frame info on the Ace Yahoo group site somewhere?

I found an inquiry there from October: "How come the catalog isnt up anymore? I think the catalog should be put up with more discription." The reply is, "It's there. Go into the photo section, and click on Folders, and look for the Ace Parts Catalog folder."

I can't access the photo section... do I have to sign in?

Ducati Scotty · **Reply #56 on:** January 07, 2015, 06:48:50 pm

http://rofomoto.weebly.com/

No manufacturers cert, so getting it 100% street legal might involve jumping through some hoops. Still, I bet if you just put it together and slapped your Enfield plate on it no one would ever know.

ace.cafe · **Reply #57 on:** January 07, 2015, 08:58:50 pm

Quote from: mattsz on January 07, 2015, 06:36:05 pm

What is Scott talking about? Is there frame info on the Ace Yahoo group site somewhere?

I found an inquiry there from October: "How come the catalog isnt up anymore? I think the catalog should be put up with more discription." The reply is, "It's there. Go into the photo section, and click on Folders, and look for the Ace Parts Catalog folder."

I can't access the photo section... do I have to sign in?

You might need to sign in again.

Chuck D · **Reply #58 on:** January 07, 2015, 09:52:01 pm

Featherbed frame ala ROFOMOTO:

Ducati Scotty · **Reply #59 on:** January 07, 2015, 10:03:47 pm

It looks even better assembled.

Chuck D · **Reply #60 on:** January 07, 2015, 10:15:38 pm

Quote from: Ducati Scotty on January 07, 2015, 03:30:05 pm

Only $850 for a featherbed frame? Makes me want to mate my SV650 motor and components to it. That'd be a sweet little ride.

Scott

Hey Scott,
It was $1,000 including the powdercoat.

Chuck.

mattsz · **Reply #61 on:** January 07, 2015, 10:43:42 pm

Quote from: ace.cafe on January 07, 2015, 08:58:50 pm

You might need to sign in again.

I've never signed in. I've been missing content and I never knew it until now. I have a Yahoo Groups name and password from years ago, but it doesn't work now.

Another reason to create a "normal" web-page, perhaps... creating a login is another hurdle.

Remember this post?

Quote from: ace.cafe on January 06, 2015, 10:41:10 pm

Yes, what we have is the Yahoo Group forum site.
We are a custom business, and so everything must be ordered from me as a custom part or custom build. We don't have anything "on the shelf". We cannot do a "web store" or a "shopping cart". So, there is no benefit in having any other website. There is full discussion on all the topics on our Yahoo Group, and we provide full technical support there, and by email and/or even by phone if required. We help each person achieve their goals individually, and custom make the products that they need to achieve it.

We currently have near 40 builds out there on the road, and some with 5 years of riding on them. Some with around 50k miles. A Bullet like that is not going to be made with "off the shelf" parts ordered from a website. It needs a lot of consultation and tech support which I provide with all our customer builds. This is what sets us apart from all the others. This is what makes a successful build happen.

Just steer them to our Yahoo Group, or have them email me directly. I can take it from there.

Do exactly what you just said above with a traditional web "front page", with some succinct descriptions and photos - then visitors will be ready for, or at least expecting, the Yahoo Group's personalized service...

mattsz · **Reply #62 on:** January 07, 2015, 10:45:51 pm

Quote from: Chuck D on January 07, 2015, 09:52:01 pm

Featherbed frame ala ROFOMOTO:

Chuck D · **Reply #63 on:** January 07, 2015, 11:00:16 pm

Quote from: mattsz on January 07, 2015, 10:45:51 pm

I'm excited.

Ducati Scotty · **Reply #64 on:** January 07, 2015, 11:36:06 pm

Thanks. I just saw the $850 US on the website with steering bearings, swingarm plates, and shock mounts.

Looks like there's enough room to move the engine forward or aft a bit if you wanted to tweak the weight distribution.

Scott

Chuck D · **Reply #65 on:** January 08, 2015, 12:30:54 am

Quote from: Ducati Scotty on January 07, 2015, 11:36:06 pm

Thanks. I just saw the $850 US on the website with steering bearings, swingarm plates, and shock mounts.

Looks like there's enough room to move the engine forward or aft a bit if you wanted to tweak the weight distribution.

Scott

Maybe but perhaps not a whole lot. Remember the carb and airbox are still missing from the picture (but I imagine most guys would mount a velocity stack on a build like this). Additionally there will be a mock oil tank housing the battery and some other electrics behind that. This will visually mimic a Manx Norton.
Billy custom makes all of this. All of the engine mounts, shock mounts, seat mounts, all of the frame tabs and other attachment points for fenders, tank, lights and so on are decided on during a complete dry build. Nothing is off the shelf.
If you have time, I think there's a link to his instagram page from his website It'll blow you away.

rtillery02 · **Reply #66 on:** April 15, 2015, 05:26:05 pm

Just read yer Jan. post bout Pa. R/E dealer situation, similar sit. in Tx., recently discovered a "fresh" dealership 17 mi. from the house, purchased my new 2012 C5 from'em, had 6mi. on it. They knew NOTHING about these bikes, encouraged me to make the 1st oil change @ 3000mi.. Being an iron barrel owner I wasn't too concerned about being dependent on their services, but less than a year later...they're out of the R/E dealer business. Next closest R/E dealer is 190mi. away in Fort Worth/Dallas area. I alternate ridin my bikes to work & both draw a LOT of attn., but soon as folks realize an almost 200mi. drive to test ride one they tend to lose a lot of interest. Times like these around here, a 70+ mpg machine is worth a second look, if the drive wasn't so far.