Author Topic: Clubman Build  (Read 3636 times)

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Mike_D

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on: October 18, 2014, 06:12:35 am
I've been wanting to Fireball my Bullet pretty much since I started reading Tom's posts.  I came to Enfield via India, got hooked and bought one when I returned to the States.  Well, we can all guess what happened.  The bike that I fell in love with in India couldn't keep up with American SPEED.  It's not like I'm the type of rider that needs SPEED, in fact I'd prefer riding country roads doing 50 mph all day. 

I live in Brooklyn but was riding up in the Hudson Valley frequently and my '02 Iron Barrel, with minor upgrades would shine on those roads.  But getting up there, that was a chore.  FDR to the GWB to the Palisades.  All right lane, no passing and feeling quite exposed.  I felt like I needed just abit more power to make the bike functional for my needs, I needed the highway capability.  I, like many others, I'm sure, briefly thought of buying a second bike for longer trips.  But I loved that stock Enfield.  It was like 90% the bike I wanted it to be.

So I toyed with the idea often.  My main concerns were the cost, doing the work myself and having NO BIKE while the build was taking place.  Before the Enfield I had zero mechanical ability.  Zero, I assure you, never even changed oil on a car (or anything for that matter).  By the time I was seriously considering the build I had put some considerable time in: dumped the hump (including drilling into the crank case and tapping the holes!), new clutch plates, 18-tooth sprocket, new pipe, new carb (plug chops and all).  I felt like I had learned quite a bit in two years. 

I emailed Tom, he assured me that I could pull the engine and bring it to Chumma's, he said it was pretty easy.  I spoke with Chuck D, "do it!" he urged me, call Chumma.  OK, I called Chumma, we spoke for about an hour and a week later I pulled the head.

That was around the end of March.  After speaking with Chumma, I had decided to go the Clubman route with the bronze bush in the bottom end.  I had a budget and after speaking with me, Chumma assured me that the Clubman head would meet my needs.  We were hoping to have the build finished around June/July giving me a good chunk of the season for riding.  I thought I could deal with not having a bike, turns out I couldn't and ended up getting a '76 XS650 in great condition to ride the meantime.

I gotta say, Tom was right, pulling an engine from an Enfield is quite easy.  Mildly distressing, but pretty straight forward, you just gotta take it easy and stay organized.  It took me two days, about 5-6 hours work each day.

I picked everything up from Chumma's in early August.  Three days later had everything back together and ready to go.  I was so stoked.  The engine went in as easy as it came out.  Had to cut the pushrods to get them to work with the new cams but other than that, pretty straight forward.

The thing blew me away on the first ride around the block.  I was a little worried that with months of riding the XS, the Enfield, even with the new engine would feel slow.  Not the case at all.  It was like a sling shot, power from the first pull of the throttle and seemingly more to give.

Gotta say, breaking the bike in in NYC was hell.  Constant paranoia about blowing up the new engine and finding the time to ride when there would be no traffic -- impossible.  It took weeks to put on 200 miles.  Plus, for whatever reason, I didn't listen to Chumma when he suggested a 5-plate Barnett clutch.  I tried to have a go with a 4-plate Barnett setup and it just didn't work.  The bike kept popping out of gear.  Eventually, Chumma and I got the clutch to work pretty OK with the 4-plate set up but I just went to the 5-plate and I gotta say it is a must, hasn't popped out of gear since.

I've got 600 miles into the build so far and I have to say it has exceeded expectations.  I'm stoked every time I throw my leg over.  It is 100% the bike I want; I had no problem selling the XS last month.  I already took it on a 300 mile trip to the Catskills and it ate up every hill I threw at it.  This is the bike Enfield should be making.

OK, this is getting waaaay to long.  Few things before I go: I kept the 4-speed box and am running with the close gear ratios and ceramic bearings, right side shift, of course.  I love it, but can see the value of the 5-speed box.  I have Hagon rear shocks and ceramic wheel bearings (hub too) and it handles like a dream.  Blue coil, one of those fancy Shorai batteries.  Probably some other stuff too that I'm forgetting.

Feel free to ask any questions.  I'm pretty tired, it's late, and, though long, I'm sure I am missing some important stuff.  I'd like to encourage anyone seriously thinking of a Clubman or Fireball build to just get ahold of Tom or Chumma and have a chat.  Don't be put off by the work, it's not that hard.  Plus, Ace proves amazing support

One last thing.  Seriously, the best part about this bike is that it is the SAME BIKE.  It's the bike that I fell in love with -- then WAM, 5000RPMS!  It's quite a feeling.


flyboy

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Reply #1 on: October 18, 2014, 12:54:25 pm
Nice post...and encouraging.
Does the Clubman build include a bigger piston or just the ported head?
What advantage does the 5spd offer that you're not getting out of the 4spd with the CR gears and ceramic bearings? Got me thinking here, but I have too much invested in the 4spd box at this point.
Thanks!


motorman2whel

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Reply #2 on: October 18, 2014, 01:02:55 pm
Are you still running points with the blue coil & if so does it burn your points up sooner than the stock coil did?.


Mike_D

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Reply #3 on: October 18, 2014, 04:55:25 pm
The build has the Ace piston with the magnum cams....I should have mentioned that in the post.

Also running a boyer mark 4 ignition.  It came with the bike when I bought it 2 and a half years ago.

The only advantage I see the 5-speed box having is the extra gear for better shifting points.  The 4-speed is fine with the close ratio gears and the ceramic bearings, its functions very smoothly.  Currently no missed shifts or fasle neutrals.  With the extra gear though, I feel like I'd get a better, efficient use of the high rpm power.  Either way, I'm happy with the 4-speed and I encourage you to stick with it.  I'm glad I did.


cafeman

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Reply #4 on: October 18, 2014, 10:18:38 pm
I've got the 4-speed with close ratio gear set and it made a world of difference over the original gearing. If you ride in mainly flat or rolling terrain it is perfectly fine, if you ride in mountainous areas the 5-speed might be a better choice. But all you really have to do is learn to keep your momentum in the turns with the cr 4-speed.


dginfw

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Reply #5 on: October 19, 2014, 04:46:50 am
Mike, this sounds a lot like what I was considering for my '06.  I wasn't sure I needed -or would use- the full potential of the Fireball, but i do want more top end and durability. Your post definitely makes me consider the options...
Dave in TX:   '01  W650- keeper
                    '12 C5 military -sold
                    '14 Continental GT-  sold
                    '06 Iron Barrel Bullet- Ace Clubman mods


ace.cafe

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Reply #6 on: October 19, 2014, 12:54:34 pm
Mike, this sounds a lot like what I was considering for my '06.  I wasn't sure I needed -or would use- the full potential of the Fireball, but i do want more top end and durability. Your post definitely makes me consider the options...
The only difference between the Fireball and the Clubman is the valve gear and the ceramic coatings.
The Clubman uses slightly different valves, and uses standard Enfield valve springs which fit those different valves. Enfield has a very unusual collet locking style on their valves which is different than normal, and requires these special valve stems to fit with their valve gear. So, the stock style stuff needs to work together. That is part of the cost savings. We recommend 5000 rpm limit for the Clubman head, but if you use Hitchcock competition valve springs, it can go higher than 5000 rpm then.
However, the porting is the same as the Fireball porting. It can be upgraded to Fireball specs by sending it in an having us install the Ace valve gear and doing the coatings on the chamber and exhaust port.
We just cut costs where we could, but still provided most of the benefits of the Fireball head for a much reduced cost.
We don't know how long the availability of these factory style performance valves are going to hold out, but we can do it as long as we can get those valves.
« Last Edit: October 19, 2014, 02:33:30 pm by ace.cafe »
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Chuck D

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Reply #7 on: October 22, 2014, 04:24:24 pm
Glad you're likin' your bike,Mike. :)
Ace "Fireball"#10 (Beefy the Bullet to her friends.)
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scouse

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Reply #8 on: October 25, 2014, 08:51:52 pm
As a matter of interest could you please give me a breakdown of the cost for each project, gears,
and head etc.
Would this up grade work with my 95?
Great post by the way.  Bob


Mike_D

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Reply #9 on: October 27, 2014, 12:30:27 am
Hey Scouse,

I was going to give you a rundown of costs then thought better of it and suggest you contact Tom (ace.cafe@yahoo.com) or Chumma (ace.chumma@gmail.com) directly.

Every build is different and what you want done and how it is done (whether you'll be pulling the engine or not) greatly affects the price.  Things like the head, piston, barrel, con rod, bearings -- those are all set prices.  But much of the cost of my build -- or any build, for that mater -- was labor.  I had Chumma build my bottom end AND gearbox.  Those costs add up.  I am not sure exactly what you are looking to do with your build so I'll leave it to you to contact Chumma or Tom and they can give you a better estimate on what it may end up costing you for YOUR build.

I DO urge you to contact them though, even if you are just dabbling with the idea.  All the work I did on my bike can be done on yours and the more work you are willing to do yourself the more you will save.

In all honesty, I have no idea how much money I have into this bike.  I'd rather not know.  It's not a terrible amount, and I've no regrets, but it's just not something I care to keep track of.

I love the bike.  I'll probably never sell it and I hope to enjoy it for a long, long time.


scouse

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Reply #10 on: October 28, 2014, 07:57:40 pm
Thanks for the reply, more curious if your rebuild
Could be done on my bike and you answered that.
Like you I wouldn't sell my bike either. Cheers


ace.cafe

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Reply #11 on: October 28, 2014, 08:14:23 pm
Thanks for the reply, more curious if your rebuild
Could be done on my bike and you answered that.
Like you I wouldn't sell my bike either. Cheers

Yes, it can be done, and they are all done on bikes just like yours.
It is more affordable if you do the disassembly and reassembly work yourself, and it is within the ability of most mechanically-inclinded Bullet owners. Some of the more technical machining jobs can be done by us, which takes most of the very critical work burden off the owner.
The bottom end work really does need to be done to have a reliable final product(unless you truthfully really can hold to a sub-5000rpm limit), and that is a major part of the cost, but we do have some affordable options for bottom end rebuilds.

Cost inquiries should be sent to me by PM or email, since we have a policy to not discuss our prices on our gracious host's forum.

Thanks!
« Last Edit: October 28, 2014, 08:33:31 pm by ace.cafe »
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Mike_D

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Reply #12 on: July 21, 2015, 03:31:28 am
2,000 mile update:

Burning up here in NYC, lookin back at this post and thought I'd throw out an update.  I would have thought I'd reach 2k miles much earlier but it's hard to pack on the miles here in New York (Chuck, I don't know how you do it!).  I do ride my bike often and do get out of town up to Harriman State park but have yet to put in the big trip I've wanted to do.  Unfortunately, prime riding season is also prime visiting season and it seems like I have an endless slew of people to entertain in the next few weeks, so no trip soon.

Anyway, now that the bike is officially broken in I gotta say it's better then ever.  For whatever reason the engine smoothed out considerably at about 1200 miles.  It is dead reliable, accelerates like a beast and is still exhilarating to ride.  Overall is was money and time well spent.  I'll ride this bike into the ground and hopefully it'll be thumping for a long time yet.

Turns out that the popping out of first was do to worn dogs on the layshaft in the gearbox.  I was able to adjust the clutch to minimize the issue but surely enough it would return.  Chumma and I finally just replaced the shaft and that sorted that.  The layshaft and replacing a worn primary chain is all the work I've had to do on the bike this year.  Though my right fork seal just blew and I'll have to sort that soon.  I replaced the seals only about 3500 miles ago, New York roads are shit.

I'd still like to encourage anyone thinking of Fireballing their bike to get ahold of Tom or Chumma.  The build is well worth the cash and is the bike that you want, I assure you.

Looking forward to seeing that billet head in person, you send it over to Chumma yet Tom?


ace.cafe

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Reply #13 on: July 21, 2015, 08:10:43 pm
Hi Mike,
Glad to hear the nice report! I'm happy you are enjoying it.
 :)

I have sent the CAM file to Chumma. I want to talk with you about some things regarding CNC, mold making, and casting. I will send you a PM or email about it.
The head is going to a different place now, for install on a GT. Late breaking change of plans.
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Mike_D

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Reply #14 on: July 22, 2015, 07:20:14 pm
Good to know.  Awaiting your PM!


Hondo

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Reply #15 on: July 23, 2015, 03:24:15 am
This post is killing me!  Chumma has had my bottom end at the shop for quite awhile now.  I have been patiently waiting for it to be returned but now I'm on the edge of my seat.  I can't wait to get "Old Sarge" back together as a clubman build!


dginfw

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Reply #16 on: July 23, 2015, 07:52:23 pm
This post is killing me!  Chumma has had my bottom end at the shop for quite awhile now.  I have been patiently waiting for it to be returned but now I'm on the edge of my seat.  I can't wait to get "Old Sarge" back together as a clubman build!

I know what you mean. I got my crank back earlier this month, and the rebuild has been slow because of work and other life issues...but then again its supposed to be 100+ degrees for the next several days, and my garage stays hot as hell, so my build may take a while....
Dave in TX:   '01  W650- keeper
                    '12 C5 military -sold
                    '14 Continental GT-  sold
                    '06 Iron Barrel Bullet- Ace Clubman mods


ace.cafe

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Reply #17 on: July 23, 2015, 08:29:28 pm
Chumma's mother is in the hospital with some pretty big problems right now. This is causing some delays.
 :(
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Hondo

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Reply #18 on: July 23, 2015, 09:38:23 pm
Quote
Chumma's mother is in the hospital with some pretty big problems right now. This is causing some delays.
 :(

So sorry to here that Ace.  Wishing Chumma and all members of your team the very best.  I have doing some upgrading to "Old Sarge" during the wait.  Lots and lots of Cerakoting, added a tach for the break-in and monitoring of the Clubman build, 40's era bars, old school controls, revamped and cloth wrapped the wiring harness.  Still to come is the Indian style seat and rebuilding the rear brakes.  I have a solid two weeks of work before I could even think of installing the motor.  Since i have a full time job that could be several weeks.  On top of that I'm leaving for two weeks in Sturgis on Sunday on my "other bike"!