[Sectorsteve]

Somethings going on with my front sprock and chain.
Its started to move from side to side near front sprocket and the chain seems to be connecting every rotation on something due to this side play movement.
If i engage clutch whilst rolling, this doesnt happen, even though the chain, sprockets are rotating.

Ive exhausted every other option except pulling the engine cover off. ive wheel aligned, tightened chain etc. To me its like the drive sprocket is twisted, but this side play movement only happens under load - in gear. Odd. I may never bother to wash my hands ever again while i own this bike.

[Ducati Scotty]

Just pull the cover, it's actually quite easy.  If you chock the wheels so it won't roll and lean it against a wall a little more that it would lean in the side stand, you won't even spill any oil.  Even in the side stand you don't lose much. Brake care not to lose the o ring in the cover or the collar on the shift rod.

Scott

[Vince]

      The gasket for the engine cover is very thin and tears easily. Make sure to have a spare if you go in there.
      It is probably not the sprocket. If the nut holding it on the transmission shaft is loose, spacing in the transmission is affected and it won't shift. I'd bet the chain and /or sprockets are worn out, or the swing arm is loose, or the swing arm bearings are worn out.
   

[barenekd]

sounds to me like either the sprocket nut is loose or if that isn't it, the clutch nut is loose.
The swing arm being loose wouldn't affect the clutch.
Bare

[Vince]

     Actuating the clutch isolates the engine's 28 HP from the drive. The chain won't react the same and a loose swing arm won't be pulled to the side without the engine load.

[Sectorsteve]

      The gasket for the engine cover is very thin and tears easily. Make sure to have a spare if you go in there.
      It is probably not the sprocket. If the nut holding it on the transmission shaft is loose, spacing in the transmission is affected and it won't shift. I'd bet the chain and /or sprockets are worn out, or the swing arm is loose, or the swing arm bearings are worn out.
   

swing arms new, bushes are new. there are no bearings in the swing arm. swing arm is tight. gasket is new. chain seems fine, but might be stretching. ive got a spare front sprock.
was hoping to avoid going into the side cover after going in there 20 times this year,  but it looks like ill have to. bare your clutch bolt comment seems likely as ive tried to wiggle the sprocket by hand and it feels firm. the side play happens only when the clutch is disengaged.

[Sectorsteve]

just pulled the cover off(after having to tap a rounded bolt out as many of them are getting rounder and rounder and many of the bolts are snapping from corrosion) i got in there and it appears normal except that the sprocket nut has about 1-2mm play left and right. i dont have the right socket for this, but is there supposed to be play here?

[Ducati Scotty]

So the nut moves 1-2mm?  Or the sprocket it holds down moves 1-2mm?  Either way, no, it should not be moving.  That should all be snug and tight.  If the shaft it's bolted to has a little play in and out that may be normal, but the sprocket and nut on there should not be moving.

Though the metric socket can be hard to find here in the US, I believe a 1 13/16" socket (I think that's the size) is easier to find, half the price, and only 0.2mm larger.  It worked just fine for me.

[Sectorsteve]

yeah the big nut moves a few mm. thanks scotty. next job! had to put her back together to go see a client.

[Ducati Scotty]

Is it tight?  Or can you just remove it by hand?

Scott

[Sectorsteve]

its tight. the nut itself isnt loose. its the shaft its bolted to...

[Arizoni]

If the shaft moves forward or aft (or up and down) it's probably caused by the bearing in the transmission that supports that end of the output shaft.

Doing anything to the transmission on a UCE is a total engine taredown.

[Sectorsteve]

yeah not looking good. so the bolt/shaft that the big nut is on rotates about 1-2mm left and right. it doesnt move up and down, nor does it come in and out of the engine. might need to weigh up my options here. im done spending time and money on this thing.

[Ducati Scotty]

Rotates?  Or moves front to rear 1-2mm?  If you can slide it front to rear, I'd also think that's the internal bearing.  A tear down isn't that bad.  I think Scooter Bob had it down to an hour or two when he was doing the recall work on the early 2009 transmissions.  I'm sure it would take us mortals longer but doesn't sound too bad.

Of course if that's the last straw for you if understand.

Scott

[Sectorsteve]

Rotates?  Or moves front to rear 1-2mm?  If you can slide it front to rear, I'd also think that's the internal bearing.  A tear down isn't that bad.  I think Scooter Bob had it down to an hour or two when he was doing the recall work on the early 2009 transmissions.  I'm sure it would take us mortals longer but doesn't sound too bad.

Of course if that's the last straw for you if understand.

Scott

ill give it a crack. Clear out store room turn into a workshop. Frustrating only because of recent works done but to be expected on any bike after 50k. The thing im more upset about is bolt heads snapping off lately. Corroding and.just braking. Bad steel. Its . starting to happen alot. Ive got 3 bolts in . engine casing needing to.be removed.

[Ducati Scotty]

Gotta be corrosion on those bolts. A little anti-seize or even thread lock helps protect the threads.  Just remember to lower your torque values, anything in the threads acts as a lubricant.

Scott

[Ducati Scotty]

And ping Ace and/or Scooter Bob about the tear down.  Wealth of information to tap between those two.

Scott

[Sectorsteve]

And ping Ace and/or Scooter Bob about the tear down.  Wealth of information to tap between those two.

Scott

thanks scotty. im keen to face it. if we dont face things, they rear up again! i cant seem to find on the hitchcocks parts diagrams anything after the spacers in from the sprocket and tab washer. doesnt appear to be any shaft, or bearing on the parts book.  ill ping those guys. in the meantime im gonna get my office ready for this. kinda excited actually.ill no doubt stuff it right up, but im sure ill learn something - as dumb as i am...

[Ducati Scotty]

I'd recommend getting a factory manual and a full engine gasket kit.  I got some gaskets from Enfield 24x7 off eBay a while ago, $35US for the whole kit delivered and decent quality. You'll probably want a cylinder hone with fine stones and a new set of rings too.

Scott

[barenekd]

The mainshaft is one piece from the sprocket to the clutch. the sprocket nut and clutch is that hold it in place If you're getting 1-2mm endplay, you need to look at the clutch nut. The nut is under the pressure plate, so that has to come off. You can get to that by taking the primary cover off.
Your problem is not in the gear box. However if the shaft is moving around, that can affect your shifting as the gears are moving back and forth too, and if they move far enough, and that's not very far, the dogs can be moving too far apart for the shifting cam to move the gears far enough to keep them engaged.
Bare

[Arizoni]

I don't recall seeing an answer to Ducati Scotty's question.

Is the output sprocket rotating 1-2 mm or is it actually moving forward and aft in the engine case 1-2 mm ?
The answer makes a big difference.

If the sprocket/shaft is rotating 1-2 mm there is probably nothing wrong with it.
There can easily be that much slop in the gear train between the output sprocket and the engine crankshaft when the transmission is in gear.

If the output sprocket/gear is actually shifting (not rotating) forward and aft that's a whole different thing and it can only be caused by something being worn or broken.

By the way, if anyone is looking in the parts manual for the output gear/shaft that the sprocket is attached to, they call it a sleeve gear .

[Ducati Scotty]

He did say it wasn't moving up and down.  If it were a bearing I'd expect it to be worn in all directions, if not evenly.  Could be more fore/aft play since that's the direction of thrust on that piece but I'd expect some play in all directions if the bearing is wearing out.

Scott

[Arizoni]

So would I.
That's the reason I asked the question.

One of the big problems with a forum like this is mis-communication. 
One guy says, "It shifts." meaning it slides back and forth and a reader half way round the world thinks he's talking about changing gears.

In this case, "moving back and forth" could mean it rotates back and forth while others are envisioning it  sliding back and forth.

[Sectorsteve]

So would I.
That's the reason I asked the question.

One of the big problems with a forum like this is mis-communication. 
One guy says, "It shifts." meaning it slides back and forth and a reader half way round the world thinks he's talking about changing gears.

In this case, "moving back and forth" could mean it rotates back and forth while others are envisioning it  sliding back and forth.

the movement is only that the shaft that the sprocket is attached to, rotates about 1-2 mil. thats it.it doesnt move up , down , in out or sideways. just a slight rotation. im getting my hopes up now.i need to check clutch nut. im a dill because i thought i checked that, but alas that wasnt the clutch i checked. the clutch is left side no?

[Sectorsteve]

thank you guys soooo much again. ill get my hands dirty again later today...or maybe tomorrow. the chainy noise is getting worse. amazing though. this started 3000km from home,...tightening the chain a bit helped it some, but the chain would then loosen pretty quick. somethings coming undone it would seem!

[Arizoni]

the movement is only that the shaft that the sprocket is attached to, rotates about 1-2 mil.

That's good to hear.
It is supposed to rotate slightly.
Forget anything I might have said about bearing failures or other disasters.

[Sectorsteve]

That's good to hear.
It is supposed to rotate slightly.
Forget anything I might have said about bearing failures or other disasters.

thanks mate. im still yet to find out what this issue is though...in gear theres chain rubbing and noise down near the sprocket. when coasting, rolling, the noise goes away.

[barenekd]

You're just talking the slop between the gear engagement dogs. That's normal. the slop goes away when you engage the clutch because of clutch drag and the pressure the clutch release mechanism has. all normal.
Now I have to make the assumption that your chain isn't new because I haven't seen anything in the previous about replacing the thing. The stock chain is just about as bad as the Skidmasters. But just getting back from your long ride, I'm guessing your chain is totally shot. A worn out chain will cause vibration by itself because of all the flexing it can do which also tears up sprockets. Have you changed it since you got back? How many miles does have on it ? The way your talking about it now sounds like it's just totally shot with the instant readjustments and such. You can't properly adjust a worn out chain. There are too may points of slop to be taken care of, even if it's a new chain it's sounds like a bad one.
Just don't replace it with an OEM chain. Two things that should be taken off a new RE are the stock chain and the Skidmasters before they roll out the door. I know I'm gonna get blasted for this, but I know the Skidmasters still suck, I hear rumors that the chains are better, I certainly haven't seen any proof of that. Mine was totally shot in 6500 miles, but hadn't started eating up the sprockets. When it got down to needing to be adjusted ever 200 miles, it wasn't going to be long before the sprockets would have gone away, too.
The chain wear limits are: Pulling the chain up off the rear sprocket, 5MM, about half the tooth height. Max Chain length across 21 pins, 328 mm.
Bare

[Sectorsteve]

You're just talking the slop between the gear engagement dogs. That's normal. the slop goes away when you engage the clutch because of clutch drag and the pressure the clutch release mechanism has. all normal.
Now I have to make the assumption that your chain isn't new because I haven't seen anything in the previous about replacing the thing. The stock chain is just about as bad as the Skidmasters. But just getting back from your long ride, I'm guessing your chain is totally shot. A worn out chain will cause vibration by itself because of all the flexing it can do which also tears up sprockets. Have you changed it since you got back? How many miles does have on it ? The way your talking about it now sounds like it's just totally shot with the instant readjustments and such. You can't properly adjust a worn out chain. There are too may points of slop to be taken care of, even if it's a new chain it's sounds like a bad one.
Just don't replace it with an OEM chain. Two things that should be taken off a new RE are the stock chain and the Skidmasters before they roll out the door. I know I'm gonna get blasted for this, but I know the Skidmasters still suck, I hear rumors that the chains are better, I certainly haven't seen any proof of that. Mine was totally shot in 6500 miles, but hadn't started eating up the sprockets. When it got down to needing to be adjusted ever 200 miles, it wasn't going to be long before the sprockets would have gone away, too.
The chain wear limits are: Pulling the chain up off the rear sprocket, 5MM, about half the tooth height. Max Chain length across 21 pins, 328 mm.
Bare

this chain was replaced about 12 months ago. its a renolds chain from hitchcocks - the best one they stock. i hope so much that its just the chain!  ill get one anyway. this chain probably has about 15000km.

[Sectorsteve]

New  chain and she is like new

[Ducati Scotty]

What brand chain did you get?

[Sectorsteve]

RK O ring.def way more heavy duty than the renolds i got from hitchcocks.
amazing what a difference a new chain makes. its sooo smooth now...
the old chain was surging, rubbing, stretching. lesson learned here to take note of when a chain is stuffed and what the symptoms are.

[GreenMachine]

 this chain probably has about 15000km

Glad that fixed your problem...You did get 15 k clicks from that OEM style chain, which seems to be spot on...I replaced mine right around the 10.5 k mile mark..Some of the fellows are getting real good numbers out of those 0 ring style chains..GM

[Ducati Scotty]

RK O ring.def way more heavy duty than the renolds i got from hitchcocks.
amazing what a difference a new chain makes. its sooo smooth now...
the old chain was surging, rubbing, stretching. lesson learned here to take note of when a chain is stuffed and what the symptoms are.

Glad it's sorted.  A quick check to see if a chain is done is just two things:
1) Are there any frozen links?
2) Grab the chain at the back of the rear sprocket and pull it away from the sprocket.  If it comes away far enough for you to see light between the chain and sprocket, it's done.

You can do this in two minutes on any bike.  Yes, you can try to free up the frozen links but it's on it's way out.  You can tighten it a bit more but it's on its way out.  A lame chain can cause all kinds of weird symptoms, just replace it now and don't get something cheap.

Scott

[Sectorsteve]

Glad it's sorted.  A quick check to see if a chain is done is just two things:
1) Are there any frozen links?
2) Grab the chain at the back of the rear sprocket and pull it away from the sprocket.  If it comes away far enough for you to see light between the chain and sprocket, it's done.

You can do this in two minutes on any bike.  Yes, you can try to free up the frozen links but it's on it's way out.  You can tighten it a bit more but it's on its way out.  A lame chain can cause all kinds of weird symptoms, just replace it now and don't get something cheap.

Scott

Thanks Scotty. I'll be sure to do that later on down the track.
Yeah tightening only worked for a few miles. This happened about 1000km from home, but due to my lack of knowledge and experience, it took a week of trial and error and forum digging here to figure it out. Lost a mirror, horn, and had a pretty uncomfortable ride home as a result. Chains easy to change. Should have taken a spare. I'm not gonna punish this bike anymore with really long rides in short time.