[KuroRR]

Hi all,
I'm going to be looking at a 2010 Classic 500 this weekend. At least, I think its a classic?
Whats the difference between a bullet classic and a classic? Are they the same?
I'm still doing some reading on it...

I've read a bit about the different models but I'd like to confirm my understanding is correct.
The current owner doesn't know anything about the bike other than the fact that it has two wheels.

Since 2007, they started phasing out the Iron-barrel engines for UCE engines which I've read are clearly the superior engines. Unfortunately, it does not say that they completely stopped producing the iron barrel engines everywhere.

Is there any way to tell if this bike is one that has an iron barrel engine?
I read the UCE engines feature EFI. The 2010 supposedly has a fuel enricher (looks like a choke lever... great..) so I can't just look for an absence of a choke lever. My only other clue would be to look at the engine and see if it has any carbs.  Can anyone confirm if this is correct?

I also need the bike to do 70mph. I heard the the old carbed bikes you could do some sort of firemod(?) to get them to go faster. I don't need to do 70mph all the time, but I don't want to shorten the longevity of the bike by wringing its neck on the freeway. Is there any mod that allows them to ride up to 70mph comfortably? Like perhaps dropping some teeth on the rear sprocket?

How do I tell the difference between a C5, B5 and a G5?
Apparently they are all the same engine but just different frames?

The bike currently comes with a solo seat (no seating for a pillion)

Please forgive the noobish questions.

Thank you in advance.

[lemming]

Unless I am missing something, what you are looking at is a UCE engine C5. Most of these will do 70 okay. But that is near the top of their ability. Best if that isn't the majority of your riding. Likely a taller front sprocket would be useful for you in that regard. I intend to go to a larger front sprocket when it is time to change it, there is plenty of low end torque to spare so it doesn't really need the lower end grunt.

It would be useful to know about the service history, as these seem to respond much better with regular (though basic) care.

[barenekd]

The most confusing name on Enfields is "Classic". The EFI Classics have chrome tanks and fenders. But, all the iron barrels are called classics on this board. The Classic Section is for iron barrels. The iron barrels were phased out in the mid to late 2000s. I forgotten exactly. It could have been as late as 2008, but 2006 really sticks in my mind. There was an interim engine called the AVL which was built in Germany between 2006-2009. It looked similar to an iron barrel, but was a completely different engine. It had electronic ignition and a carburettor
If it's a 2010, it's either a G5 or C5, the B5's didn't come out until April 2011. but since it had the solo seat that would made it a C5. the frames are different between all three models, but you really have to look to become familiar with them.  The C5's have 18" wheels and the G5s and B5s have 19" wheels. The engine cases are slightly different, too by the G5s have a flange covering the chain at the rear of the engine that the C5 doesn't. Otherwise they are identical from the outside. Because of the wheel size difference the C5 has an 18T countershaft sprocket vs 17T on the G5. The innards are all the same.
A word of warning about the earlier C5s up to the mid 2012 models. Some of them have shown stability problems with headshake at 60 or so. Not all of them demonstrate that characteristic, but if your getting a test ride, check it out. They changed the fork (moved the axle back in line with the tubes rather the leading axle setup) and front wheel (to 19") on the mid 2012 models.
The Continental GT Cafe racer is the same EFI engine bored out to 535 ccs
Bare

[TWinOKC]

The later models "UCE"= chain on the right side of wheel.

Older models, Iron Barrel, AVL = chain is on the left side.

[Ducati Scotty]

G5 had a dual seat and no fender struts.
B5 has a dual seat and fender struts front and rear.  The rear struts are squared off on top.
C5 has a solo seat and fender struts front and rear.  The rear struts are round.  There may be an optional passenger seat but it has a totally separate cushion and is removable.

Of course any bike could have had a different seat added later.  The fender struts are less likely to change.

These are the names for the American market.  In Europe the C5 is the 'Classic'.  If the tank and fenders are chrome it's a 'Deluxe' model.  Regardless, if the chain is on the right side and there are no visible oil lines on the right side of the engine it is UCE bike.  This is the latest engine they make.

For a UCE bike that's broken in and in good condition, it should be able to do 70mph, though not uphill or at high altitude.  I rode back from Seattle to Portland a few weeks ago going 65-75 most of the way for three hours straight.  No problems.

Scott

[KuroRR]

Thanks for clearing that up. Some motorcycle review sites didn't even seem to differentiate the Bullet from the Classic.

So basically, it seems like the C5 Classic. Not the bullet.
It is UCE.

Thanks bare -- I'll see if he allows me to test on freeway and I'll check for the headshake. Sounds like a very serious design problem.... I've experienced short tank slappers from hitting bumps in the road while accelerating.... not very fun. If its going to happen on a regular basis, might be a deal breaker.

Anything else to look out for?

Its got about 20000kms / 12400miles on it. Service history is likely unknown as this owner bought the bike before he was able to obtain his license and then ended up never getting the license, so he decided to sell.

[barenekd]

All the models are Bullets except the Continental. That name goes back to the 30s for the Enfield thumpers.
Bare

[FastDoc]

You have received good advise. My small additional input:

The bikes do not have a wobble/instability problem per se. A bikes geometry can be engineered for sharp low speed handling, or stable high speed handling. Except in cases where expensive high end suspension and chassis are used, combined with excellent engineering (a Ducati, for example) it is hard to have BOTH.

The Enfield was designed for a slower time, in crowded areas and unimproved roads. Therefore it was made for sharp low speed handling, at the expense of twitchy high speed handling. The later C5's (2012 on) changed the front wheel to 19" which improved the high speed stability, at the cost of some of the prior bikes excellent sharpness around town.

My bike is fine at 70+, but if you make it twitch it sure will. Same applies to the effect of large bumps of trucks passing, etc.

[FastDoc]

Also, I don't think the gearing on the C5 can be changed. I don't think there is room for a larger countershaft sprocket (Tthe C5 already uses the larger one) and it does not look like there is chain clearance for a smaller rear sprocket.

What these bikes need the most, IMHO, is a 6th gear. Not for top speed obviously but for lower revs and less vibration at 60-70 MPH.

[Ducati Scotty]

If the C5 does become unstable at high speeds, check the tire pressure.  It should be 18psi front, 24psi rear.  It sounds very low but works just fine.  Setting it properly (18/24) cures lots of bikes of their instability.

Scott

[ace.cafe]

Also, I don't think the gearing on the C5 can be changed. I don't think there is room for a larger countershaft sprocket (Tthe C5 already uses the larger one) 8and it does not look like there is chain clearance for a smaller rear sprocket.

What these bikes need the most, IMHO, is a 6th gear. Not for top speed obviously but for lower revs and less vibration at 60-70 MPH.

The stock power curve really wouldn't support much lower rpm at cruising speed. It needs those rpms to make enough hp to run at those speeds.
The vibration isn't from the rpms, it comes from the internal truing and balancing of the rotating assembly. I can assure you that Bullets can run extremely smooth at 70+mph, and even at 100mph, with a very well built rotating assembly.

[KuroRR]

Great.
I think I'm pretty decided on getting it.
If all goes well, the condition is good and the price is right, I'll buy it.

Although it is not quite my taste in color, I'm hoping it'll grow on me, or I'll just repaint it.

This isn't it, but it looks the same.

[dginfw]

So it's a 'military' C5?  The color will grow on you, and people assume that because its painted that way that it's old. I had one, and it got a lot of attention from people who aren't even into bikes. Moms in minivans, little kids, you name it....
but if you don't like the color, remember this:  the FRAME is that color, and a repaint would be a pain (more than just the tank and fenders)

[KuroRR]

Thats good to know.
I really hope the color does grow on me. I was always under the impression it would be easy to repaint.

The other sad thing is that this model does not have a kick starter 
Ah I would have loved a kick starter, just for kicks.

[dginfw]

Yeah, the earlier C5s didnt have the kicker on them...not sure if they regained them in '11 or '12.  It usually isn't that big of a deal to repaint a bike,  but some of the C5s have the frames painted to match.
Where are you located?  Have you expanded your search to find a bike with a kicker and a color more to your liking?

[wildbill]

i think it's all about the $$$$$ . if the purchase price is right or your at the very top end of your budget then this is the bike for you. on the other hand if you have the cash to go better - I'd go revised C5 with 19" front and 18" rear wheel plus you also get the kick starter plus better wiring or improvement throughout the bike including the revised sprag clutch.
either way you will enjoy the ride

[Ducati Scotty]

The kicker came in 11.  Though I have the teal one the military is great.  You never have to wash it, dirt just makes it look better!

[JVS]

i think it's all about the $$$$$ . if the purchase price is right or your at the very top end of your budget then this is the bike for you. on the other hand if you have the cash to go better - I'd go revised C5 with 19" front and 18" rear wheel plus you also get the kick starter plus better wiring or improvement throughout the bike including the revised sprag clutch.
either way you will enjoy the ride

+1

[KuroRR]

I'm actually located in Canada.
There are maybe about 5 Royal Enfields for sale in a 200 km radius.

The price is about $3500 CAD, which is ~$3250 USD.
I wouldn't pay extra for the kick start, its a "nice to have" feature and it'll probably be a while before another bike comes up for sale. RE's are quite rare here. Most work I can likely do myself. I've done oil changes, brake jobs and clutch replacements on my current bike.

I think the easiest way to change the color if I really didn't like it would be to plasti dip it(or equivalent). The bike already has kind of a matte finish on it anyway.

Oh I read about the sprag clutch. Apparently since its a EFI, theres less chance of kickback, and less chance to break the sprags. I haven't read about replacing the old sprag with the newer models yet. If this is possible, please chime in.

[Arizoni]

I know the 2009 had a weaker sprag clutch and I think it carried on into 2010 production.

Somewhere around the end of 2010 RE changed the clutch to a more robust design with larger sprags and a stronger cage.

The 2011 and later UCE's all have the new, improved clutch installed.

This improved sprag clutch is a drop in affair so replacing it isn't too difficult.  They are expensive though.

Some of these new sprag clutches are supposedly available on the web but there is no  real assurance that they aren't selling the old clutches and claiming it is the improved ones.

"New design?  OH!  SURE!  These are the latest ones.  You can trust me.  "

[wildbill]

price sound good to me for the UCE....even rhymes ...lol. here in OZ you might get one for that price but i can guarantee - you wouldn't be able to ride it  as it would be classed as a basketcase.
but you could scrape into an older iron barrel job.

[FastDoc]

+1 on the good price.

About the high speed 'wobble' again...

I question RE's tire choice. I think that the Avons have too triangular a profile for this bike. This sharpens the handling even more, making it more unstable at higher speeds.

I regularly ride my bike fast enough in the turns to grind the brake lever on the right, and the footpeg on the left. Even so, with these maximum lean angles, there is still a 1/2" chicken stripe on my front and rear tires. This indicates to me quite a bit of unused tire profile, and if the tires had a rounder profile, I think it would not be prone to 'wobble'

Just my thought. YMMV.

[Gypsyjon]

Pretty close to Canada

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Royal-Enfield-Bullet-2010-royal-enfield-bullet-c-5-/261532877575?forcerrptr=true&hash=item3ce4930307&item=261532877575&pt=US_motorcycles

[gashousegorilla]

  Over the weekend I had the opportunity to ride and also we Dynoed a bone stock 2012 C-5. 19" front wheel, Avon road riders front and back... Completely stock, right down to the R-6 plug. And it is a completely different handling bike then the earlier versions.  Solid on the highway at high speed and it cornered very well... Very much UNLIKE my 09' C-5 was like when stock and new.  These newer ones feel much better to me.  Not too light and twitchy .... depending on the rider.... as the older one felt to me,   The 2012 felt like it had more power and also  Dynoed a little better then what I am use to seeing for a stock bike.  I THINK they did something to that Mill.... Not a 100% sure, but it sure felt like it. I would love to get in there and have a look at those Cams.....   

[KuroRR]

Is it just me, or does it seem like there still continues to be huge build quality issues, even in the newer models?

Maybe because I'm just reading the forum and people only are posting about their troubles, but it seems like bolts are coming loose from vibrations, sprags are breaking, battery terminals breaking, head stay mount breakage, side stand switch malfunction, chain links stiff ...and more...

I understand that an RE is not as reliable as other modern bikes these days, but now I'm concerned if I buy one, it'd require more fixing than buying a vintage japanese.

I'm ok with doing 'some' maintenance work, but I still would like to get from point A to point B as well.

[krimp]

  Over the weekend I had the opportunity to ride and also we Dynoed a bone stock 2012 C-5. 19" front wheel, Avon road riders front and back... Completely stock, right down to the R-6 plug. And it is a completely different handling bike then the earlier versions.  Solid on the highway at high speed and it cornered very well... Very much UNLIKE my 09' C-5 was like when stock and new.  These newer ones feel much better to me.  Not too light and twitchy .... depending on the rider.... as the older one felt to me,   The 2012 felt like it had more power and also  Dynoed a little better then what I am use to seeing for a stock bike.  I THINK they did something to that Mill.... Not a 100% sure, but it sure felt like it. I would love to get in there and have a look at those Cams.....   

GHG, can you find out what pressure the tires were inflated too?

[FastDoc]

Yes they still have build quality issues. I'd say they are better than any classic bike built in England, but they are no where near Japanese, or European build quality. Maybe more like Harley...

On the other hand, the forum is a place where like minded people share difficulties and try to help each other. This is the place where you will read about problems, it's not a fair sample of the population.

For example, a guy buys an Enfield and is not interested in the on line community. He won't join a forum to tell people how good and solid his new bike is. BUT if he has problems and needs advise, he will sign on. SO, we hear more bad than good here, and that's OK.

Another way to look at it is you'll never see a news report of the thousands of safe landings airplanes all over the world will make today, but if one crashes it will make news all over the country, or even the world.

[gashousegorilla]

GHG, can you find out what pressure the tires were inflated too?

   You know...... I thought about that AFTER words.  We were involved in a Intake manifold modification and test that a friend is doing, and I did not think of it at the time. But I should have when I got back from the ride. I will see if I can get that Info for you krimp.  However...... with the older bikes, with the 18 inch front and back, WITH the old forkset, I found 18-20 front and 24-26 rear worked for me.   However, the way in which my bike is set up now, I find 24 front and 28 rear works nicely at all speeds... And I may go a little higher.

[Ducati Scotty]

You had frame problems causing most of your instability.  Did you ever try higher pressures after you fixed that?

[gashousegorilla]

You had frame problems causing most of your instability.  Did you ever try higher pressures after you fixed that?

  Yes I did.  The frame issues had the "high" speed weave coming in bad at around 55 mph. After we fixed  that, I was good up to the upper sixties to around the low seventies.  And at the time I was running the pressures that are on the DOT plate.... forget exactly what they are at the moment ?  But dropping the pressure to those lower numbers finished it off.

  The bike is now  of course completely different. Center of gravity, distance of that and the riders weight from back axle plays a big roll is stabilizing this frames, that have a fair amount of flex in them. And depending on the rider, and his or her weight and riding posture plays a roll as well.  More weight forward, I have found is important on these bikes. The more the better it would seem. It settles the frame down, and the front end will not feel as lite at high speed.... basically the front end does not pivot AS easy at higher speeds.

 My bike NOW has a 120-80-18 rear tire, a 90-90-19 front tire.... Roadriders both. 13 " Hagons at the rear,  YOUR  perfectly dropped clubmans  ,  20 weight fork oil, and the swingarm work.  It is decidedly sporty and stiff if you will, and handles like a dream.   Weight on that front end helps big time.....   The rake angle has been shortend at bit with what I have done, BUT it IS light years better then what it was, both at low and high speed.


 Weight over or closer to that back axle will have the opposite effect.... Lowering the front tire pressure, we in effect shifted a bit of weight forward and also increased the contact patch with the stiff and ROUND RoadRiders.

[KuroRR]

I checked out the bike today. It looked pretty decent condition.

The idle adjuster lever doesn't seem to work?
It seemed pretty tight to pull, and when I did pull it downward, it didn't increase the RPMs. I'm not quite sure about that?

I also took it for a test ride, I didn't end up taking it on the freeway but it is a very interesting ride. Pretty smooth acceleration, vibrations is not what I'm used to but I really like the thumper feel. The rear view mirror is kind of useless because it vibrated so much that everything in it is blurred.

I looked all over the bike to see how I could repaint, wont be easy. I'll see if I can disassemble the bike and do it piece by piece.

Despite all that, I ended up buying it. I have all the paper work so once I register the vehicle, I'll pick it up on Tuesday. I'll add pictures once I pick it up.

Thanks for all the tips. Looking forward to riding it! 

[FastDoc]

The lever does little. It seems to raise the idle maybe 50 RPM, and you have to hold it a few seconds before the idle rises.

[Ducati Scotty]

You can adjust the high dime lever to engage sooner but I have never needed it.  I just blip the throttle when starting once in a while. Once it's running it keeps running.

Scott

[Arizoni]

The lever on the left handlebar activates the "Bi-Starter" which lets a little extra air pass the throttle plate.
The one on my G5 has only been useful when I was starting the engine on cold mornings less than 40 degrees F (4.4 degrees C).

Like Fast Doc mentions it only adds maybe 50 rpm to the idle speed.

By the way, there appears to be a screw and nut on the throttle body right behind the throttle cable pulley.  DO NOT try to adjust that screw to change the idle speed.
If you do you will mess up the calibration of the whole fuel injection system.

The idle speed is adjusted by turning a large brass slotted screw that is accessed thru a large hole on top of the throttle body.

[KuroRR]

Picked up the bike last night.

So I'm not quite sure how to feel about my purchase.... yet.
I rode it for about 1 hour home, non-freeway, but up to about 55mph. My butt felt kind of numb from the vibrations about half way through.

I'm coming from 6 years of riding supersport bikes up to 1000cc, so I'm very very not used to the lack of power. People were passing me all the time. The speedo looks to be reading proper... The brakes are soft and don't bite as hard as I'm used to and my stopping distance I increased a great deal to be on the safe side.

I read all the reviews and they were all pretty much bang on. But can't help but feel ... I'm not sure the word... unsatisfied? When I look at the bike, it looks amazing, still love the look.

Its only been a day... I'm thinking maybe I need to manage my expectations and give myself time to get adjusted to this different style of riding.

[Ducati Scotty]

I came off a Monster 800 and for the first week or two I felt like I was riding a moped again. After a bit you should settle in and get used to it.  It's a different experience when you're not trying to apex every corner.  And a pleasantly relaxing one.  Give it some time, it will grow on you

Scott

[GreenMachine]

KuroRR:  I love my Enfield and look forward to riding it when the chance presents itself...I'm trying to maintain two other bikes as my wife has essentially given up on riding her machine...I don't like operational bikes to sit longer than 2 weeks without a good heat up...I hope you find the pleasure of your classic machine as the long time members here have noted over the course of ownership...That stated, the bike isn't for everyone and it should be evaluated in that manner...GM