Author Topic: It does not like to stop!!  (Read 4979 times)

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gashousegorilla

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Reply #15 on: June 23, 2014, 07:48:16 pm
I almost always use front and rear brakes at the same time.  As mentioned it provides a more stabilized stop, and helps prevent either of the brakes from locking up.  Being that I grew up riding in the dirt..............

 +1  I use them both for straight line stopping, and the front does most of the work. BUT, use the front very judiciously ,if at all, in turns and on loose stuff. Not fun when the front brake locks, the front end jerks, unexpectedly, and your over the handle bars looking up, wondering what the hell just happened .....  Use both brakes together and separably according to the conditions I say.
An thaibhsí atá rattling ag an doras agus tá sé an diabhal sa chathaoir.


barenekd

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Reply #16 on: June 23, 2014, 08:31:19 pm
I use the front brake almost exclusively 95% of the time. If I really need to stop quickly, I'll throw a little rear brake in there. All the crap that the front brake is dangerous, and only there to do you in, is totally erroneous. It's just another thing to learn how to do properly like anything else you learn to do on a bike. Yeah, you can bust your butt misusing a front brake, but I'll guarantee more people bust their butt locking up the rear wheel and crashing, either into what they were trying to avoid because of a lack of braking power, or having the rear end of the bike come around and throwing them off with the rear tire squealing all the way.
I guess I'm very sensitive because I had a grandson die last year from exactly that. He just finished a riding class a couple of weeks before where they taught him how to brake,but lapsed back into his dirt riding habits of no front brake. He went into a curve, locked the rear wheel up and fell, then bashed his head into a tree. If he'd used the front brake he would have easily slowed enough to make the turn.
Even dirt riders with any skill use the front brake, too. I sure did in my dirt racing days. Hell of advantage over those who didn't!
Here's the bottom line, guys, If you don't use a front brake, you really don't know how to ride a motorcycle safely. And while we're at it, if you don't understand and consciously use countersteering, you're in the same boat.
And now I'm going to get a lot of flak for saying that stuff, but if it saves one of you guys out there from hurting yourself, I've accomplished my mission.
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Subbu-500

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Reply #17 on: June 23, 2014, 09:32:33 pm
Boy!! is this the best and the most helpful forum for a wanna be biker like me or what? Thank you all for all the advise ...i wish there was some similar training for bikers here. But now that i have these many selfless people helping me with my queries, i am sure that i will be a more informed rider pretty soon  :) I will change my riding habits for the good going forward. Now i only wish that you guys were just a day's ride away... :(...thanks again guys
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olhogrider

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Reply #18 on: June 23, 2014, 09:42:43 pm
Now, if you want a real skill building challenge try maximum braking while cornering! In your first few days of riding it feels really weird. You will have to increase the turn (countersteer) the harder you brake but once you have that down, you won't be "that guy" from the youtube video. He sails his Hog into the trees with the rear locked. http://youtu.be/6rueC1r8W1s


Ducati Scotty

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Reply #19 on: June 23, 2014, 09:51:03 pm
Here's the bottom line, guys, If you don't use a front brake, you really don't know how to ride a motorcycle safely. And while we're at it, if you don't understand and consciously use countersteering, you're in the same boat.
And now I'm going to get a lot of flak for saying that stuff, but if it saves one of you guys out there from hurting yourself, I've accomplished my mission.

You won't get any flak from me, that's dead on.  Add target fixation in there and it's the holy trinity of bad motorcycling habits.

Scott


Professor

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Reply #20 on: June 23, 2014, 10:35:08 pm
Race Tech will "arc" the drum brakes. They did my RE. Listed on their website.


High On Octane

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Reply #21 on: June 23, 2014, 10:47:29 pm
Race Tech Suspension still does brake arcing but you have to ship your parts to them and it's like a 4 week turn around.

Scottie J
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Ducati Scotty

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Reply #22 on: June 23, 2014, 10:51:21 pm
Can't you do it yourself with some chalk and an sanding block?  Chalk the shoes, drop them in the drum, engage and rotate, remove, sand wherever the chalk rubbed off (the high spot), repeat until all the chalk wipes off.  Probably not as fancy as what RT does but I thought that was the DIY method.

Scott


Arizoni

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Reply #23 on: June 23, 2014, 11:13:15 pm
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While we're talking about riding safety, several people have mentioned "counter-steering". 
Perhaps you already know what that is but for those who don't it is talking about which way you turn the handlebars to make the motorcycle turn.

Counter-steering also applies to bicycles but most bicycle riders never go faster than 20 mph.  Because most of us learned to ride a 2 wheeled vehicle on a bicycle, we never learned counter-steering existed.

With bicycles and motorcycles traveling at speeds below 20 mph (32 kmph) the handlebars and front wheel get turned into the direction of the turn.  Turn them right and the bicycle or motorcycle turns right.  Likewise, turn the handlebars left and the bicycle or motorcycle turns left.

At speeds above 20 mph a whole new set of riding rules appear.  Counter-steering rapidly comes into the picture.
Counter-steering means, you want to turn left?  Turn the handlebars to the right.
Want to turn right?  Turn the handlebars to the left.

This seems illogical until you realize at higher speeds it is the motorcycles leaning to the side that makes it turn.
The reasons for this are complicated dealing with the tire contact patch location, gyroscopic effects and several other things.  The important thing is that people know that counter-steering is needed and how to use it, not how it works.

Most new riders (or inexperienced riders) deny that counter-steering is what is happening when they ride fast.
They are doing it without realizing it.

For the non-belivers, the next time your riding down the road at, say, 30 mph (48 kmph), if it is safe to do, gently push the right handlebar forward (turning the handlebars to the left).  Be prepared for the motorcycle to start to lean to the right and as it does, it will start to turn to the right.
After getting the motorcycle back on course, push on the left handlebar, turning the handlebars to the right.  The motorcycle will instantly start to lean to the left and turn that direction.

For most riding, our subconscious minds already know this (even if we don't) so for most situations we don't need to make a mental decision to counter-steer but in the event of an emergency where a rapid turn is needed to avoid hitting something making a deliberate counter-steer to avoid a crash can save you.

Ride Safe
Jim :)
Jim
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1999 Miata 10th Anniversary


mattsz

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Reply #24 on: June 24, 2014, 01:09:31 am
A counter-steering description for the geeks:

http://www.msgroup.org/Tip.aspx?Num=048&Set=


It's from a great collection of tips and ideas:

http://www.msgroup.org/articles.aspx


olhogrider

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Reply #25 on: June 24, 2014, 01:29:10 am
Arizoni, one of the best explanations of countersteering I have read. Nicely done. I find more old timers denying it than newbies. Fewer new rides are self taught these days.


Subbu-500

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Reply #26 on: June 24, 2014, 04:50:03 pm
Great details Arizoni! I think i can relate to the explanation. It is what makes a car drift in a controlled manner? I have seen them drifters take a shapr turn in one direction just enough to let the rear-end slide away and then quickly counter steer to maintain the drift untill they need to straighten...it that it? If yes, then i think i understand the concept :) if it is not i am not ashamed  8)
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ace.cafe

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Reply #27 on: June 24, 2014, 05:49:04 pm
Can't you do it yourself with some chalk and an sanding block?  Chalk the shoes, drop them in the drum, engage and rotate, remove, sand wherever the chalk rubbed off (the high spot), repeat until all the chalk wipes off.  Probably not as fancy as what RT does but I thought that was the DIY method.

Scott
Yep!
You can do it yourself.
I always have.

Heck, when I worked at the Brit car shop, I did it with chalk and a file. So could anybody else. It was something that was a normal part of a drum brake job. We would never have sent anyone out on the street without it.
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Ducati Scotty

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Reply #28 on: June 24, 2014, 07:22:50 pm
Ah!  A file would be a better choice over a sanding block.

Scott


Arizoni

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Reply #29 on: June 24, 2014, 07:34:36 pm
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No.  Counter-steering has nothing to do with automobiles or with sliding around corners.
Just remember my advice when you are riding a 2 wheeled machine at speeds above 33 kmph.  :)

Jim
2011 G5 Deluxe
1999 Miata 10th Anniversary