[cowboysculptor]

Well, this was supposed to be a weekend of rest due to back trouble.  My ignition timing has been a bit off on my 2007 Bullet 500, so I thought that would make a nice low-energy project.

Now it's hardly running, it's so rough I have to give it constant throttle just to keep it from dying.  But it's not as simple as that. (Several difficult confessions are about to follow.)

I'm nothing if not cheap, so I made my own timing wheel (which really isn't hard), and bought a used timing light.  Should be easy.

The first thing I did was to drop the bolt I was using to find TDC (no tdc tool) down into the cylinder.  I've heard of people doing this, but thought you would have to be an idiot . . . anyway, so much for a light job.  I couldn't fish it out, so I began the process of tearing down the top end.  I got the tank and exhaust off and disconnected the decompression valve cable.  But before I started to really break it down, I realized I had a nice clear view down into the cylinder with the tank off, and I managed to get the bolt out with the use of a magnet on a stick.

I put everything back together and started in on timing.  Is 32º before tdc correct?  That's where I set it, and now it's worse than ever.  It runs rough and with black smoke at the exhaust.  Is it just timing, or could I have done something else?  It was by no means clear how to disconnect the decompression valve cable, could an improperly reconnected cable cause this?  I'm really lost here guys.

Thanks for any help.

Peter

[cyrusb]

The timing for a regular points bike is 8 degrees or 1/32 before top. Its amazing it ran at all at those specs. Start there, you'r way advanced.

[GreenMachine]

haven't done my yet...but haven't had 2 either...brought the tdc tool from our sponsor and a new set of points and the small feeler gauge..their is a advance collar that u can purhcase that enables u to use the tdc at 8.5 mm vice the standard 8 mm before tdc setup...supposely the enfield advance state happens sooner than later (2k rpm)...anyway i'm guessing that is probably a more accurate way of setting up the timing vice your standard tdc/8mm...someone may be a able to steer me correctly on whether either procedural is more accurate than the other....think i read something re. using the timing wheel and thought it was different in its approach...timing light is of course is required and the degrees may be different than mentioned above.... snidal goes into this and also the ping timing procedure as a last resort....i would think that the technology of the bike would enable the standard 8mm before tdc as the basic setup for the points to begin opening up and then you would do your dwell setup on the points (amount of opening), using your feeler gauge...supposely u put the bike on centerstand, put it in top gear, remove your points cover and turn the wheel till you c the points begin to open (this is suppose to be 8mm before tdc)..Think i'm right on this but someone will get us straight procedurally..either way, i like to buy that expensive electronic setup ($200 ) as it is suppsoely very accurate but you still have to set that up the same so i'm going to be doing the same thing u are doing one day..good luck and keep us informed....cheers..

[t120rbullet]

I use a dial indicator on mine just to get it close.
.031(or .8mm)  BTDC
.320 BTDC with the advance unit locked in full advance.

Dwell, Timing lights, kind of a waste of time and $$ on a bullet.
The slop that is in there between the 5 gears in between the crank and the contact breaker housing makes trying to get an accurate setting next to impossible.
Just set it as close to the .032 BTDC as you can and then ping time it from there.
The important thing is how good it runs not how close to perfect you can get it.
Wrong bike to obsess on specs with
     

[Foggy_Auggie]

It's 0.8 mm BTDC.  And you could just use a long No.2 pencil for a TDC tool.  And 0.8 mm is just a twitch before TDC is reached.

I'd just set as close to TDC as possible using the ammeter kick for starters.  The centrifugal advance comes in fast on the iron Bullet.

Your initial 32 degress BTDC could cause any kinds of damage.

[GreenMachine]

yup, off on my decimal points...of course that makes a big difference....yes its just about tdc anyway isn't it (.8 mm)...agree on not obsessing on specs on this bike...guess that why the order book has a footnote on the electronic ignition upgrade "not that u need it"...What I have noticed is a weak battery on this bike can make it look like u might have starting/timimg problems...When it was new, I noticed the ES would easily throw the piston past tdc and start the bike using the decompressor ritual.,  6 months later  I had to manually bring the piston just over TDC to use the electric start....Battery is just under 2 years old...I having a hell of time starting it kickstarting cold now....Electric start still works with having piston just over TDC....I'll head out to store 2 miles away, get off the bike, come back  out and it kicks over every time (1st kick ) when warmed up...I've heard some suggest on the site that cold  electric starting is okay and as long as u can kickstart it warmed up/don't worry about...I'm thinking the battery is just getting a bit run down as the neutral light seems brighter after a good run vice sitting in the garage a few days and trying to start via kickstarting....solicits any comments on that .....again thanks for clearing me up on the decimal point thing..cheers

[baird4444]

The 32 degrees is at full advance.  I haven't done mine this way but I went back checked my files...    see below - Mike
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That static timing thing may not get you anywhere. One mm after TDC or 0.8 mm before may each get you into the ballpark. You can already start the engine so you can also dynamically check the timing.
If you have a timing light, you can take off the timing side cover, somehow mark TDC on the magnet and the alternator and 32 degrees advance from there, also on the alternator.  After you have made the marks, start the engine and rev it a little bit while shining your light on your marks. Your TDC mark on the magnet should hover around your 32 mark. Adjust as necessary.
With a fancy timing light you don't need the 32 degrees mark, just make the TDC marks line up after setting the advance dial to 32 (or 64, you'll see what I mean when you shine it on there, has to do with the timing gears and no wasted spark). 32 degrees is definitely in the ballpark and takes timing out of the equation for now. Then troubleshoot the mixture. And then ping time it. You are not going to load the engine much during initial break-in, so don't worry about being exactly on the spot for now. Again, this is not an alternative to ping timing, but you can measure advance with your light AFTER you have ping timed the engine for future reference.
You haven't increased compression, or have you?
I'm asking because that changes the timing thing significantly.
Peter
You only have to tell the mechanic that FULL ADVANCE should be about 32 degrees, not static timing.
The only issue is that the Bullet does not have TDC and timing marks.
You need to put at least a TDC mark on the magnet and a TDC mark on the alternator then make another mark 32 degrees clockwise (to the RIGHT) of the TDC mark also on the alternator. Then you have to tell the mechanic which mark is which.
However, once you have arrived at that point you don't really need a mechanic anymore. Just shine the light on it and rev to 2-4000 rpm. The Bullet advance unit fully advances below 2000, so you don't have to go crazy with revving.
Timing lights are available at any auto parts store and come with simple instructions for hookup.
You don't need a fancy wheel to determine full advance, just something to measure an angle with.

Peter